tintingz:
Scientists don't take flat Earth model serious, it's a conspiracy theory.

The four source I provided are from reputable source.

Wikipedia encyclopedia. You got issues.

Are you saying these source: psychologytoday, psychiatry.órg, National health service are dumb for making that assertion?

It is an oversimplification as saying the sun rises from the east which is factually incorrect and once an argument is based on a false premise, it is inherently wrong.

Sex cannot be assigned neither can it be changed. It is a DNA business not something you give to people.

WHO said it's no longer a mental disorder,

This appeal to authority is pitiful.

You have been shown with a peered reviews article from institute of biological studies that WHO's declassification is politically spurred but No. You keep repeating this rubbish.

it's not recognized as mental disorder anymore in clinical field, these stubborn scientists should keep calling it mental disorder, they will keep losing their jobs.

What changed?

The bolded is plain ass retard.

Is hormonal influence not biological or not? It seems you have not been reading the source I provided.

Let me straighten you up - Behaving like a woman or even looking like a woman is not the same thing as identifying as a woman.

One can behave in feminine ways but still agree with factual biological realities of being male.

Hormones have nothing to do with identity perception, it is sorely psychological.

And a non factual identification is delusion

Scientists said transgender is mostly biological factors, hormonal influence, genetic, heritable etc you're saying another thing.

This is a stupi_d lie ..

Transsexuality have nothing to do with hormones, genes neither is it heritable.

No one said it's not psychological, what study said is it's beyond psychological.

Transsexuality is an identity subject not even sexual.

Sex is biological. Identity is psychological.

Seems both confuse you.

I tire for you sir.

No offense but you are grossly naive.

Throughout this discussion you have not made a single argument.

All you throw around is: Scientist said that, WHO said its no longer a mental disorder, Wikipedia is a good source.

You need to straighten up yourself man

dorox:
Those who can should watch this video, the presenter made some pretty strong arguments against biology as the cause of gender issues.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-NQhDfloaM

Biology is not the cause of gender issues.

It is correct that biology causes effeminacy or the reverse or intersex but these traits are not identity hinged.

Identity on the other hand is mental. Thoughts, feelings and belief.

Once this thought, feeling and belief is factually wrong, its a delusion.

Its that simple.

A goat that believes its a dog is straight up deluded.

Hakeem12:
It's just not worth it. Having to take pills the rest of ones life, hormone imbalances and the rest. Doesn't make sense at all.

It's NOT about making sense to make you feel comfortable, It's about let any one does whatever makes them comfortable with which they also find sense in with likeminds so long as they not hurting you in anyway.

aaronson:
It's NOT about making sense to make you feel comfortable,

Correct.

But I'm afraid this is not the premise of the argument.

it's about let any one does whatever makes them comfortable with which they also find sense in with likeminds so long as they not hurting you in anyway.

The premise of this argument is not about doing what you want or what you are comfortable with. That's entirely a different talk.

Understand that first.

That said. The premise is on the causality and implications leading to this effect.

Transsexuality is nonsensical because sex cannot be changed, its biological.

The question of incorrect identity however has always been straight cut pointer to mental delusion.

johnydon22:


Correct.

But I'm afraid this is not the premise of the argument.




The premise of this argument is not about doing what you want or what you are comfortable with. That's entirely a different talk.

Understand that first.

That said. The premise is on the causality and implications leading to this effect.

Transsexuality is nonsensical because sex cannot be changed, its biological.

The question of incorrect identity however has always been straight cut pointer to mental delusion.

I don't want to be confined to the premise of this argument leading to causality or consequences, That's for the individual to deal with. my moral obligation is to respect any one who deem it fit to opt for a transgender.

Human right protection law isn't also after causality or consequences but does one thing, Upholding the freewill of any LGBT individual so long as they not hurting any member if an out group.

aaronson:
I don't want to be confined to the premise of this argument leading to causality or consequences, That's for the individual to deal with. my moral obligation is to respect any one who deem it fit to opt for a transgender.

This is not a moral argument.

If your concern does not coincide with the premise of a particular thread, you shouldn't really be there.

Human right protection law isn't also after causality or consequences but does one thing, Upholding the freewill of any LGBT individual so long as they not hurting any member if an out group.

Nobody is arguing that.

Religion is a fundamental human right, you still can think its nonsencial to think a snake talked or a virgin gave birth.

Identifying objectively the causality behind transgendarism does not in anyway mean 'nobody should be transgender'

So your post is actually non sequitur and meaningless to the premise in question.

johnydon22:


You have not provided an argument that refutes his stance.

This is simply an ad hominem and is nonsencial in argumentative ethics.

He's a religious freak.

johnydon22:


Wikipedia encyclopedia. You got issues.

SMH

It is an oversimplification as saying the sun rises from the east which is factually incorrect and once an argument is based on a false premise, it is inherently wrong.

Sex cannot be assigned neither can it be changed. It is a DNA business not something you give to people.

This appeal to authority is pitiful.

Reputable source use the word "assigned gender", if they are incorrect it is thier business, if you're incorrect it's your business.

You have been shown with a peered reviews article from institute of biological studies that WHO's declassification is politically spurred but No. You keep repeating this rubbish.

WHO said gender dysphoria is no longer a mental disorder, abah!

They are not dumb to come to that conclusion!

What changed?

The bolded is plain ass retard.

What changed is that gender dysphoria is no longer a mental disorder.

Let me straighten you up - Behaving like a woman or even looking like a woman is not the same thing as identifying as a woman.

One can behave in feminine ways but still agree with factual biological realities of being male.

Hormones have nothing to do with identity perception, it is sorely psychological.

And a non factual identification is delusion

Scientists said it's also biological, abah.

This is a stupi_d lie ..

Transsexuality have nothing to do with hormones, genes neither is it heritable.

Again,

The causes of transsexualism have been studied for decades.
The most studied factors are biological.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

Transsexuality is an identity subject not even sexual.

Sex is biological. Identity is psychological.

Seems both confuse you.

No offense but you are grossly naive.

Throughout this discussion you have not made a single argument.

All you throw around is: Scientist said that, WHO said its no longer a mental disorder, Wikipedia is a good source.

You need to straighten up yourself man

So I've been wasting my time with all the provided source. SMH

Image attached: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

johnydon22:


Lmao..

But religious people are dumb

No they are not, that's fallacy.

tintingz:
He's a religious freak.

Repeating the same nonsense doesn't make it sound better each time.

tintingz:
No they are not, that's fallacy.

- Fallacy of what?

- and Its actually sarcasm.

johnydon22:


- Fallacy of what?

- and Its actually sarcasm.

Fallacy of generalization.

Ofcos I know it's sacarsm.

johnydon22:


Repeating the same nonsense doesn't make it sound better each time.

I'm sorry but he's a freak, legendary defender of abusive priests.

tintingz:
I'm sorry but he's a freak, legendary defender of abusive priests.

I still fail to see how his opinion on abusive priests invalidates his thesis of transgender causality.

This is still nonsensical

Meet Walt Heyer, he spent 8 years as a transgender female. Here’s why he says diagnosing young kids as transgender is child abuse.

“From my point of view as a former child who did this, it’s child abuse, and it shouldn’t be done.”

[sub][/sub]

budaatum:
Meet Walt Heyer, he spent 8 years as a transgender female. Here’s why he says diagnosing young kids as transgender is child abuse.

“From my point of view as a former child who did this, it’s child abuse, and it shouldn’t be done.”

It is child abuse but they wouldn't know that

budaatum:
“I wish I listened to you” from a young man who regrets taking cross-sex hormones and undergoing surgery.

I’m only in my mid [twenties]. I transitioned in my teens and had surgery. I was [too] young to make such a decision. I’ve sunken into such a deep regret. I don’t even feel transgender anymore. I feel like my old self. I am happy with a female appearance but that is all I really needed. I feel like I was brainwashed by the transgender agenda and by gender norm expectations. I would do anything to [have] my penis back. My feelings were confusing and I thought they would never go away. I’m just a guy who’s really in touch with my feminine side. I can’t believe what I’ve done to my life. And now I have no choice but to take hormones forever. I don’t know what to do. I feel like I’m losing my mind. All I would have had to do was discontinue my hormones and everything would have been alright. I honestly feel 100% normal and okay . . . if only I had never had that surgery.

Democrats politics is killing the sanity of this planet. That typical "Why not let anyone do whatever they want to do" it is absurd.

Why exactly do we have Law and Order.

Laws and Orders are not individually inclined, they are for collective societal good and continuation. But today, the left makes individualistic arguments that can only mar the human race.

Identity is never something someone inherits. It is psychological, mental. A neurological projection and can be informed by many things.

When someone who is factually male says he feels like female - I don't doubt that feeling but I understand that there is a problem and it shouldn't be denied.

Politics Will ruin this planet especially Liberal politics that is turning lunatic every passing day.

When identity is factually incorrect, its delusion.

If you walk into a clinic and say "I'm Muhammad Buhari" everyone agrees you have mental delusion.

Go to into the hospital and say "Doc I want you to amputate my perfectly healthy leg, I feel I'm an amputee so I want to amputate my leg to coincide with my feelings". The doctor would diagnose you of mental crase and put you under psychotic drugs.

But go into same hospital and say " Doc I need you to amputate my perfectly healthy genitaIia, I feel like I'm the opposite sex"

Liberal logic, that is not mental delusion

People play too much in this life

johnydon22:

Politics Will ruin this planet especially Liberal politics that is turning lunatic every passing day.

Hmm! I don't think I'm having that, being that I am liberal myself, as in, in favour of the adult individual making their own choices.

If a man wants to cut off his dick and grow boobs, or a woman do the equivalent - cut off their boobs and grow a dick - please, what's my business in that? It's their body and their business. Besides, once you start dictating whether people can cut bits of their body or not or and attach bits to it that they want, it wouldn't take long for you to claim I must have certain thoughts and those thoughts only, and be telling me what to believe or not believe, and I wouldn't like that!

Liberalism gives the right to individuals to make the choices that best suit them. It is an ideology of self responsibility - you cut off your dick and the benefit, or dis-benefit is yours, and has nothing to do with a second or third party!

I do not agree that others should be ones keeper more than one is the keeper of oneself, provided one is deemed of sound mind and an adult.

budaatum:

Hmm! I don't think I'm having that, being that I am liberal myself, as in, in favour of the adult individual making their own choices.

If a man wants to cut off his dick and grow boobs, or a woman do the equivalent - cut off their boobs and grow a dick - please, what's my business in that? It's their body and their business. Besides, once you start dictating whether people can cut bits of their body or not or and attach bits to it that they want, it wouldn't take long for you to claim I must have certain thoughts and those thoughts only, and be telling me what to believe or not believe, and I wouldn't like that!

Liberalism gives the right to individuals to make the choices that best suit them. It is an ideology of self responsibility - you cut off your dick and the benefit, or dis-benefit is yours, and has nothing to do with a second or third party!

I do not agree that others should be ones keeper more than one is the keeper of oneself, provided one is deemed of sound mind and an adult.

Read that top post again

johnydon22:


Read that top post again

Why? Has it been edited?

Sanity, at last?


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/03/puberty-blockers-ruling-curbing-trans-rights-or-a-victory-for-common-sense-

JeromeBlack:
I believe that full grown adults have the right to do what they want to do with their bodies.

No you Do Not!

Just as your driver does not have a right to use your car as he pleases, Nor your phone can not change your screensaver same can you not alter your body, It is Not Your Own. You are Only Given A Free Use Based on Terms and Conditions!

And your T & C Expressly Forbids Any Alteration, Exactly as Landlords say in their Tenancy Agreement that you can not Alter their Properties!

budaatum:

Hmm! I don't think I'm having that, being that I am liberal myself, as in, in favour of the adult individual making their own choices.

If a man wants to cut off his dick and grow boobs, or a woman do the equivalent - cut off their boobs and grow a dick - please, what's my business in that? It's their body and their business. Besides, once you start dictating whether people can cut bits of their body or not or and attach bits to it that they want, it wouldn't take long for you to claim I must have certain thoughts and those thoughts only, and be telling me what to believe or not believe, and I wouldn't like that!

Liberalism gives the right to individuals to make the choices that best suit them. It is an ideology of self responsibility - you cut off your dick and the benefit, or dis-benefit is yours, and has nothing to do with a second or third party!

I do not agree that others should be ones keeper more than one is the keeper of oneself, provided one is deemed of sound mind and an adult.

Then why does suicide seem to be a major concern to many of these liberal societies?

You have to realise that not all decisions are rational and sometimes people are just passing through a difficult mental and emotional phase that affect their decision making.

johnydon22:


Democrats politics is killing the sanity of this planet. That typical "Why not let anyone do whatever they want to do" it is absurd.

Why exactly do we have Law and Order.

Laws and Orders are not individually inclined, they are for collective societal good and continuation. But today, the left makes individualistic arguments that can only mar the human race.

Identity is never something someone inherits. It is psychological, mental. A neurological projection and can be informed by many things.

When someone who is factually male says he feels like female - I don't doubt that feeling but I understand that there is a problem and it shouldn't be denied.

Politics Will ruin this planet especially Liberal politics that is turning lunatic every passing day.

When identity is factually incorrect, its delusion.

If you walk into a clinic and say "I'm Muhammad Buhari" everyone agrees you have mental delusion.

Go to into the hospital and say "Doc I want you to amputate my perfectly healthy leg, I feel I'm an amputee so I want to amputate my leg to coincide with my feelings". The doctor would diagnose you of mental crase and put you under psychotic drugs.

But go into same hospital and say " Doc I need you to amputate my perfectly healthy genitaIia, I feel like I'm the opposite sex"

Liberal logic, that is not mental delusion

People play too much in this life

You have my utmost respect and admiration for this post.

Ehiscotch:


Then why does suicide seem to be a major concern to many of these liberal societies?

You have to realise that not all decisions are rational and sometimes people are just passing through a difficult mental and emotional phase that affect their decision making.

Depends who you are I guess. Imagine running for governor of your state saying everyone has the right to terminate their life if they want to, would you vote for you? Would your parents vote for you if you say people can kill themselves if they want? Then consider how badly you must have run your state if elected and your state people start killing themselves.

My point is, as an individual, I don't particularly care if you grow boobs or cut off your dik or terminate your life even, but as a lawmaker, I'd regulate where you go to cut off your dik and grow on boobs for tax purposes at least, but I'd make it illegal for you to terminate your life because dead people do not pay tax.

budaatum:

Depends who you are I guess. Imagine running for governor of your state saying everyone has the right to terminate their life if they want to, would you vote for you? Would your parents vote for you if you say people can kill themselves if they want? Then consider how badly you must have run your state if elected and your state people start killing themselves.

My point is, as an individual, I don't particularly care if you grow boobs or cut off your dik or terminate your life even, but as a lawmaker, I'd regulate where you go to cut off your dik and grow on boobs for tax purposes at least, but I'd make it illegal for you to terminate your life because dead people do not pay tax.

Wow. So you don't believe in Truth(s) then; I guess for you it is a matter of perspective and position (situation)

Ehiscotch:


Wow. So you don't believe in Truth(s) then; I guess for you it is a matter of perspective and position (situation)

Actually, I don't believe, period. One either knows or does not know, but this is a matter of opinion and not truths.

It is a truth that it is your business to grow boobs, cut off your dik or terminate your life, and whatever I think or believe or my opinion is irrelevant since my permission is not required.

budaatum:

Actually, I don't believe, period. One either knows or does not know, but this is a matter of opinion and not truths.

It is a truth that it is your business to grow boobs, cut off your dik or terminate your life, and whatever I think or believe or my opinion is irrelevant since my permission is not required.

I quite disagree. If you say it is true then you cannot accommodate fluctuations or relativity.

If it holds true that God does not exist it has to be consistent today, tomorrow and so on.

It's false to change positions on truth because you are a lawmaker or anything else.

Regardless of your permission or position it is wrong to take life.

Ehiscotch:


I quite disagree. If you say it is true then you cannot accommodate fluctuations or relativity.

If it holds true that God does not exist it has to be consistent today, tomorrow and so on.

It's false to change positions on truth because you are a lawmaker or anything else.

Regardless of your permission or position it is wrong to take life.

Nowhere have I said it is right to take life or whether God exists or not, or even what is true or not and you thinking I have just shows you do not understand my position one tiny bit.

Do note that I never claimed my own subjective and relative opinion is or should be everyones truth, and as to changing one's mind, I should hope one is not so rigid not to in face of evidence suggesting one should.

budaatum:

Nowhere have I said it is right to take life or whether God exists or not, or even what is true or not and you thinking I have just shows you do not understand my position one tiny bit.

Do note that I never claimed my own subjective and relative opinion is or should be everyones truth, and as to changing one's mind, I should hope one is not so rigid not to in face of evidence suggesting one should.

Ok. So you believe every individual reserves the right to take his own life?

Ehiscotch:


Ok. So you believe every individual reserves the right to take his own life?

Are you reading what you quote or do you not understand it?

Did you miss where I said I'm not a believer?

Did you miss where I said "I'd make it illegal for you to terminate your life because dead people do not pay tax"?

Please show you understand by asking what penalty I'd impose on a person who terminates their life.