Over and over, we come across "amazing" treatises on the Bible. People have found ways to ignore some portions of Scripture and quote out of context "preffered verses" to teach error as Biblical doctrine. The past has shown us such as David Koresh and Jim Jones (google these names for more information). Todays heretical leaders though are more refined, sophisticated and are eroding the message of Christianity. Whist the likes of Koresh wanted "souls", most of todays "Koresh'es" want your cash and mind

We hear claims like "I am Christ", "Faith can force God's Hand", "Claim it and its yours" etc.

Could we please discuss some of the more common ones and their postulators and the effects bothshort and  long term on Christians and those watching from outside?

I'd particularly like input from not only Christians on both sides of the divide but also from such as Krayola, MyJoe and Mudley - these are people who will offer a sincere insight into the effect these "claims" have on the way Christians are viewed.

. . .watching this space

I welcome corrections to the below!

There are two basic parts I see to this discourse. One is the Christian perspective and the other the view of the man looking in and wondering what manner of "insanity" he is seeing. I speak only from the Christian perspective. My understanding is that there are seven basic doctrines in Christianity (MY VIEW). Aside these are rules and ideas of guidance to be found in the Bible.

My EIGHT basic doctrines are

1. LOVE
2. The Trinity: God is one "what" and three "who's" with each "who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality and all being co-equal.
3. The Sovereignity and "aloofness" : God is sovereign and all powerful not needing us but sufficient in Himself to all ends.
4. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.
5. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.
6. Salvation: By grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. This Grace however, not being license for "freedom"
7. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.
8. Man: Created in the Image of God but totally human and not divine in any form

As an aside, we've discussed the inerrancy of Scripture here on NL and for purposes of this thread, I define Biblical inerrancy in terms of its message. Words have been changed through revisions etc but the message is constant and is what I call "inerrant".

Those who I call heretics would be those who, whist claiming to be part and even leadership of christianity, deviate from any of the above seven. You will note that ALL other religions and belief systems in the world deviate from at least one of these seven. This would infer that any so called "Christian" deviating is in the same boat and that their claim of Christianity is mouth deep

2 Tim. 4:2-5   "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."

Myths abound today.  False teachers are everywhere, especially on the television and radio, and traveling to every country of the world trying to take the spotlight away from the true work of God in the local church and missions and placing it on "signs and wonders" and on false testimonies people have made up out of their fertile and sinful minds.  Many Christians have itching ears today, no longer wanting to hear the truth of God's Word to obey it, but instead would rather see and participate in a circus atmosphere and listen to wild unsubstantiated stories.

The seemingly easiest way in which this is being done today is to hold the Bible as the authority but actually direct the student's attention primarily to the doctrinal books of leaders. These books usually contain some accurate doctrine, but are laced with the leader's heresy. Bible verses are sprinkled liberally in the books to make it appear that the student is studying the Bible. The result is that the Bible is really only being used as a reference book. One can make the Bible prove anything used in this manner.

Maybe we can discuss this aspect first as it is so so so so common today to find MOGs (as they like to be called) spreading their peculiar doctrine thus

Describing the methods and motives of the false prophets and teachers, Peter says that,"many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you, " (2 Peter 2:2-3). How does this happen? Very simply, the average church member is conditioned for it. Rather than follow God's direction and "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15), the average Christian's approach is to expect others to teach them.

culled from the web

@nuclearboy
Going by your submissions above, you have already termed those of us who don't agree with your your exra biblical concept of trinity as heretics, that's really a shame. That aside the greatest doctrine in christianity as defined by Jesus himself is missing from your list of seven doctrines. Jesus made it clear that the greatest doctrine in christianity is to love God an to love others (matthew 22:35-38) and romans 13:10 also states that love is the fufilment of the law so you can't be truly talking about christian doctrine with basing it on this fundermental issue(Love) that Jesus based most of his teachings on.

@Kunle:

I have read you here on NL say Jesus is "a God" so what are you on about? You agree He's man yet God so wetin be turenchi again? And I'm sorry, Bro, but love is not a doctrine. The meaning of doctrine is loosely "belief". Love is not a belief but an act or you may call it "a way of life".

And I did say I remain amenable to correction. If you would me to add "Love" to a list of doctrines, thats not an issue.

@nuclearboy
The word translated into doctrine according to Strong's concordance means instruction/teaching. It is not defined as a belief.

^^^ Love too, my brother, is not a teaching or instruction. It is an act or way of life. I have no arguments with you. We're saying the same thing with different words

nuclearboy:

^^^ Love too, my brother, is not a teaching or instruction.

"Love Your Neighbour as Yourself" that sounds like an instruction bro

Okay, I surrender. Love added as the first of doctrines!

Back to the topic, I strongly support nuclearboy's motive for raising this issue. A lot of brethen are being led astray by false doctrines and heresies being preached by all these so called men of god. They must be challenged and made to shut up else they lead more souls to perdition with their deluded selves. (Titus1:11) as christians we can't afford to keep quite but expose the wolves that have infiltrated the flock based on scripture. Also I would like to commend all those seriously contending for the faith on this forum especially nuclearboy, enigma and alethia [even though we disagree on the doctrine of trinity] you guys are doing a great job, even though I don't comment as often as I used to, I try to keep abreast of daily comments in this forum. It is my prayer that God would continue to reveal his will to us all whilst we grow steadfastly in the faith.

^^^ Yep agreed; it is a good idea to challenge a lot of the false teachings that abound today and the idea of such individual topics in particular threads is right.

By the way, Kunle, I am more inclined to regard your view denying the Trinity as error rather than heresy ---- taking everything into account.

[1] If you don't pay tithe, you are going to Hell - RCCG
[2] Name and Claim (whist bringing ALL) 101, 201, 310 and 495 (final year project after which police arrests you for fraud) - CE
[3] "I AM THAT I AM", a "god" on earth and once I reach deep inside myself deep enough, I can do what God did/does - WOF
[4] The "Holy oil" in this bottle is the blood of Christ once I pray over it - LF AKA Winners chapel
[5] The richer my church is, the holier we are and the more God loves us - most churches today - Most any church today
[6] Wealth is an indication of superiority/answered prayers which translates from "righteousness" - CE/WOF
[7] "ooooooooooooooooo I am very very very hungr hunger anger angry man is hungry man eba with rice and yam" said very very fast is "kabashing" and is the speaking in tongues the Bible talks about. - CE/WOF
[8] All I need do is "claim" Jesus and I'm heaven bound on concorde even if professionally a love-peddler - CE
[9] Trousers are bad for women. Men must not taste alchohol -

Aletheia/Enigma/Petres/Kunle/Guys, please take one and start the discourse OR bring up an issue of interest to you

@ Topic, i agree with u, d false teaching vary from denomination to denom. But i want to digress a little; was watching TBN about 2 months ago and Benny Hinn was speaking, he said something i find really baffling. He had a bottle of oil in his hand and was encouraging viewers to buy it claiming 'it will protect them from making business mistakes in this year 2010'! I cldn't believe my ears! Pls did anybody watch it?

nuclearboy:

[1] If you don't pay tithe, you are going to Hell - RCCG
[2] Name and Claim (whist bringing ALL) 101, 201, 310 and 495 (final year project after which police arrests you for fraud) - CE
[3] "I AM THAT I AM", a "god" on earth and once I reach deep inside myself deep enough, I can do what God did/does - WOF
[4] The "Holy oil" in this bottle is the blood of Christ once I pray over it - LF AKA Winners chapel
[5] The richer my church is, the holier we are and the more God loves us - most churches today - Most any church today
[6] Wealth is an indication of superiority/answered prayers which translates from "righteousness" - CE/WOF
[7] "ooooooooooooooooo I am very very very hungr hunger anger angry man is hungry man eba with rice and yam" said very very fast is "kabashing" and is the speaking in tongues the Bible talks about. - CE/WOF
[8] All I need do is "claim" Jesus and I'm heaven bound on concorde even if professionally a love-peddler - CE
[9] Trousers are bad for women. Men must not taste alchohol -

Aletheia/Enigma/Petres/Kunle/Guys, please take one and start the discourse OR bring up an issue of interest to you

OK

Do you even know what Heresy means?
And who can be classified as a Heresy?
And who gave you the authority to determine doctrines?

^^ If you have need of a definition, pick a dictionary. Wikipedia will provide a classification and studying the Bible will show you authority.

When you've done the study, come around again

I have no need for a dictionary, I can define heretic and give u the 2 types of heresy that there is and define them for u. So no I am not in need of a definition, but I think you are.

And you failed to answer my other questions.

People want to throw the word heretic around because it sounds hefty but don't know what it is.

p.s. I wasn't picking a fight, I need you to clarify which type of heresy you're speaking of.

Do you even know what Heresy means?
And who can be classified as a Heresy Heretic?
And who gave you the authority to determine doctrines?

true talk. one man's prophet is another man's heretic.

what right or authority have you to declare olumba olumba olu and his followers as heretics when you yourself claim another man as god, and unlike the olumba followers, you never even met this man and everything written about him were written with the intent of converting new followers to a new religion. no neutral source about him, and those who wrote about him were never even actual eye witness to the farytales they penned down (e.g an angel called gabriel visiting mary, his birth, his so-called resurrection etc). also, unlike the ooo followers, this man was not even african like you, practiced a foreign religion (judaism), and most probably was not even aware that sub-saharan black africans even existed.

what right or authority have you to declare joseph smith of the mormon church heretic owing to his absurd claims of being visited by angels and handed scriptural tablets and all the other absurdities, when you yourself believe in way more absurd mythical tales of a moses speaking with god disguised as fire on a tree, being handed written tablets as well and even more benign claims of him actually seeing the back of god, like god is supposed to be physical.

galileo was perceived as a heretic for his factual but then contradictory claims (as opposed to your so-called holy book written by ancient stone aged jewish men) of the earth revolving around the sun. martin lurther was perceived a heretic by the then catholic church

Heretics usually do not perceive their own beliefs as heretical. According to wikipedia "Heresy is a controversial or novel change to a system of beliefs, especially a religion, that conflicts with established dogma." and we all are aware of the variations in beliefs and pratices that plagues christianity. thus, my opening statement of one man's prophet being another man's heretic. do you know how stupid and heretical the jews think you guys are for believing a jewish carpenter executed like a common criminal is the massiah they're still expecting? same way you think the jews are stupid for still waiting on the massiah's first coming just because some book written by MEN tells you the messiah already came and is gonna be coming for a second time. same way the muslims believe you guys are stupid for thinking a man was god and god is actually divided into 3 parts, same some christians believe its stupid to pay tithes and others believe not paying tithe is robbing god and actually a sin; and so on and so forth

the moral of my story is that the benny hinns of today are no different from your pastor, the pope, joseph smith, david koresh, olumba, guru maharaji, moses or muhammed who all came with outlandish claims that only the gullible and superstitous believe in due to the absurd fears and beliefs in the unknown. they're only different in style of presentation and outrageousness of claims

~Lady~:

Do you even know what Heresy means?
And who can be classified as a Heresy?
And who gave you the authority to determine doctrines?

good charge. i also wonder if he knows the truth.
because no one knows the truth!! no one is ideal!!
what he is saying is only truth to him.he is not saying the truth because no one has the absolute truth.

these are people who will offer a sincere insight into the effect these "claims" have on the way Christians are viewed

to answer your question, the effects these "claims" (according to you) have on the way christians are viewed is exactly the same effect all the other outlandish claims of christians and other religious people have on christianity and the religious ---- you're probably just too deluded to see it any other way

galileo was perceived as a heretic for his factual but then contradictory claims (as opposed to your so-called holy book written by ancient stone aged jewish men) of the earth revolving around the sun. martin lurther was perceived a heretic by the then catholic church

I understand your point, but this caught my attention.

Galileo wasn't considered a heretic for a factual but then contradictory claims. No one can be considered a heretic for scientific finds. He was considered a heretic because he assumed the authority to interpret the Holy Scriptures. The authority didn't belong to him.

But then again, I see people still don't know what heretic means. *scratches head*

babaearly:

good charge. i also wonder if he knows the truth.
because no one knows the truth!! no one is ideal!!
what he is saying is only truth to him.he is not saying the truth because no one has the absolute truth.

I doubt he knows the fullness of truth, he knows some truths though, but not the full truth.
And we can know the full truth, it has already been revealed to us.
The truth doesn't come by man's reason, but by revelation, it has already been revealed.

~Lady~:

I doubt he knows the fullness of truth, he knows some truths though, but not the full truth.
And we can know the full truth, it has already been revealed to us.
The truth doesn't come by man's reason, but by revelation, it has already been revealed.

REALLY?! Where is the full truth? Care to show it to me? No! The full truth has not been revealed to anyone. Only bits and pieces here and there.

Hello Mudley:

I wish it were possible to write in a manner that would ensure you read slower - seems you go faster than I'd like. First off, you are as guilty as you charge I am. My "delusions" are no different from yours. Whist I however and in my own case, was willing to listen to your views of christianity, you have made those "your" views "laws" and furthermore, have made a few assumptions into the bargain. FYI, I have NO pastor or Imam or whatever. What I have is evidence from my spirit or conscience or "mind" as you may call it. It involves much that sensual legalists like yourself would likely never experience. My conscience gives me a right to ask questions BUT also requires I listen to answers even when against my beliefs as yours are. But you've determined your right to ask, answer, judge and proclaim ALL BY yourself. It comes across grating and with too much aggression. [size=4pt]long ago, I'd have asked if you were a virgin and suggested you go do something about that - you remind me of young make elephants in estress. too much anger[/size]

If you are a bit more "with me" now, you would realise I ASKED ABOUT DEVIATIONS FROM BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES, INSTRUCTIONS AND "DOGMA" rather than whether you think your grand-father was a chinese man who came to earth as a black man to complain about the nuclear weapons program of the chinese government. I believe you sensible and that you know what the Bible says as opposed to what many of "us" say. My invitation was based on that. If I was wrong in my belief about you, enjoy your days.

@Lady:

You don't want to pick a fight but you "think" I do not understand english and that I feel "heretic" is a hefty word so I impress myself throwing it around, right? Okay!

Anyway, deviations from Biblical doctrines are what I spoke about and call heretic. I have seen your "powerful" picture of "Mary breastfeeding 'god'" so understand your defensiveness. However, I ask you - why are you defensive? Do you defend that the sun will go down this evening? Please remember that we usually defend error most vociferously and most every "fanatics" are in error.

Please let us know what your 2 types/definitions of heretics are? And why didn't you just work with those if you were certain they are right. FYI, your picture is definitely "heretic". Mary fed the "Human" Jesus who was anointed but "became Himself" when The Dove (need to be told what it symbolised?) came upon Him during His Baptism. That is the truth. Go deal with it and watch your backside when turning away from your priest. Oh sorry, I forgot - they prefer little boys!

@Babaearly:

I love your defence of truth. No assuming or self-righteousness. BTW, I didn't say I know all things. I know little. Part of that little is that the Bible is what we ought follow and ANYTHING against its principles is wrong

Jenwitemi:

REALLY?! Where is the full truth? Care to show it to me? No! The full truth has not been revealed to anyone. Only bits and pieces here and there.

Just beautiful.

Nuclearboy, you're well-intentioned and I'm not referring to you. The most tiresome people are those who believe they own the patent to the 'truth' and all contrary views are false or heretic. Their view is the way, the truth and the life, and they set themselves up as 'Vanguards of the truth'. The deluded, pathetic arrogance of it.

No religion and no individual owns a monopoly on truth. Feel free to believe what you want. We might discuss divergent views, but we can't impose our beliefs on others as 'the truth'. If there's a working definition of religious delusion and psychosis, seeing yourself as the bearer and defender of 'truth' is exactly it.

Mad_Max:

If there's a working definition of religious delusion and psychosis, seeing yourself as the bearer and defender of 'truth' is exactly it.

Lovely definition and I am somewhat guilty of it (and thats not in response to you, Mad_Max! but just the truth). Maybe I ought have acknowledged "my" beliefs have limitations because I know little. But at least my beliefs have sincere motives and do not include "possessing" the souls of other men. My sincere reason for this thread was not to force Christianity upon anyone but see if discussing it would avail those who go outside of what we call the Word of God yet insist they are leaders amongst us, to hear what they portray to the society and see the effects its having on us as a body. In effect, see if consciences could be pricked.

I know what your intentions were, honey. You're not guilty at all, or at worst, only a little, same as most of us. There are far worse self-conceited culprits, believe me. Who believe the 'Truth' is whatever they think and appoint themselves Vanguards of Christianity.

[size=13pt]I AM CHRIST!!!![/size]

Pastorchris-tianity.
Just kidding.

Joagbaje:

[size=13pt]I AM CHRIST!!!![/size]

I know CE in all areas show videos of your chris"T" preaching seeing as he is the only "elder" you have so you listened to him today. It must have been quite an experience and the pep talk seems to have "emboldened" you.

Your acceptance that your anointing is "less" informs that even in your own estimation, you are a "fake" christ. Your other delusions will eventually be dropped - either you leave them or when your godship DIES, they'll leave you .

God ko, bingo ni! see who dey wait make im mate give am 2% of tithe before he chop dey talk say im be god.

[size=14pt]I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD !!!![/size]

^^^ Your pastors are impregnating multiple church members! Your men wear vanity! You misquote/misuse God's Word. Your ministry is known for love-peddlers. Most thefts commited in society are linked to your church and the perpertrators bring all to you proving you influenced them to steal. Your doctrine is watery and shallow. You are vain and proud. Chris himself looks/lives like a swivel hipped transverstite (maybe thats why the wife moved away).

And now obviously, you've started sniffing gum to think that with the above, you are a light. Dude, you cannot successfully illuminate a currency note