agbotaen:

having said this i reiterate again that owa kingdom is a[b] heterogenous[/b] community with people migrating from so many places like benin,ishan, ora, ndokwa,other ika areas and from igbo land .this is not in doubt as our various villages have their histories intact and these people have fussed to become owa kingdom and later as ika people.

Almost all Igbo towns are heterogenous in origin.It is therefore not peculiar to Owa.

Abagworo:

agbotaen has refused to admit the fact that Owa was[b] founded by an Nri man[/b].

Chei. . That kind of connection with Nri will finish virtually any argument. Sad fact (for some).

@Agbotean,

Good job. Thanks you for your contributions to this debate.
You have describe reality as it is on the ground. Those who
have ears let them hear. Owa has always been Edo. I know
you all have evolved your Ika culture, i respect that. Going
through your historical accounts, triggered subconscious
memories of songs i learnt as youth about our legendary
Owa, Umuonode etc. Ikas are steep in edo spiritual heritage.

amazonia:

@Agbotean,

Good job. Thanks you for your contributions to this debate.
You have describe reality as it is on the ground. Those who
have ears let them hear. Owa has always been Edo. I know
you all have evolved your Ika culture, i respect that. Going
through your historical accounts, triggered subconscious
memories of songs i learnt as youth about our legendary
Owa, Umuonode etc. Ikas are steep in edo spiritual heritage.

Owa is the product of a kingdom that existed at least 400 years before the Edo Empire. Respect your elders.

ezeagu:

Owa is the product of a kingdom that existed at least 400 years before the Edo Empire. Respect your elders.

Those numbers are irrelevant to me.
What is important is, they are my blood lineage.
They are my brothers and sisters. WE are cousins.
And a very integral part of edo consciousness.

ezeagu:

Owa is the product of a kingdom that existed at least 400 years before the Edo Empire. Respect your elders.

Lol @ that

Nri Kingdom- about 900 AD onwards

(Ogiso - ruled) Benin Kingdom- about 800 AD onwards (the time earthen wall fortifications started)

Then around 1200 AD Benin started that Edo empire stuff.

PhysicsQED:

Lol @ that

Nri Kingdom- about 900 AD onwards

(Ogiso - ruled) Benin Kingdom- about 800 AD onwards (the time earthen wall fortifications started)

Then around 1200 AD Benin started that Edo empire stuff.

Ogiso is 900 AD actually and Nri's foundation was as early as 700-800 AD. Archaeology shows bronzes before 800 AD. Respect your elders!

amazonia:

Those numbers are irrelevant to me.
What is important is, they are my blood lineage.
They are my brothers and sisters. WE are cousins.
And a very integral part of edo consciousness.

And you're delusional to be claiming Igbo people as your blood lineage when the most credible blood lineage heads back east instead of to a random Edo trader.

@ezeagu.

I am not going to stoop to your level of belligerency.
It seems some Ibo don't know their history, other
than colonial and post colonial era. For your information
we Edos simultaneously learn our traditional history, and other necessary
orientations for life, while we go to schools. What we learn in schools about
history is to pass exams. The truth we usually learn from home and internalize.
The present monarch of Owa is the great-grand-son of Oba Overamen.

ezeagu:

Ogiso is 900 AD actually and Nri's foundation was as early as 700-800 AD. Archaeology shows bronzes before 800 AD. Respect your elders!

I know from when the bronzes date, but the date given for the actual Nri Kingdom is always written as 900 AD- 1911 AD on Igbo sites, history sites, and basically everywhere. However using the reasonable logic that random artisans were not making bronzes for nothing, then we could accept the 700 AD date except that it is always claimed otherwise by Igbo historians, who give it a later date. By the same reason, simple logic dictates that the Benin defensive earth fortifications (iya) were not being built for show. They were being built from 700 - 1450 A.D. (see "Benin Earthworks: Perceptions Over Time" by P. Darling. or any of various articles by that same author which state that they were being built before the 8th century ) but I never gave the pre-700 date, rather I gave the 800 AD date, the earliest date I had read written by credible Benin historians for the Ogisos (I had actually read somewhere that tried to ascribe a B.C. date to the Ogiso dynasty, which I found laughable and ignored) . So using the logic you employ to ascribe a 700 AD date to Nri despite all historians saying 900 AD, I could easily do the same for Benin since somebody was ordering those large earthworks to be done. So it is one thing to say there was activity in a place and another to say the first monarch of a kingdom founded the kingdom at such a date.  Regardless, the 400 years thing you originally wrote is still laughable.

PhysicsQED:

I know from when the bronzes date, but the date given for the actual Nri Kingdom is always written as 900 AD- 1911 AD on Igbo sites, history sites, and basically everywhere. However using the reasonable logic that random artisans were not making bronzes for nothing, then we could accept the 700 AD date except that it is always claimed otherwise by Igbo historians, who give it a later date. By the same reason, simple logic dictates that the Benin defensive earth fortifications (iya) were not being built for show. They were being built from 700 - 1450 A.D. (see "Benin Earthworks: Perceptions Over Time" by P. Darling. or any of various articles by that same author which state that they were being built before the 8th century ) but I never gave the pre-700 date, rather I gave the 800 AD date, the earliest date I had read written by credible Benin historians for the Ogisos (I had actually read somewhere that tried to ascribe a B.C. date to the Ogiso dynasty, which I found laughable and ignored) . So using the logic you employ to ascribe a 700 AD date to Nri despite all historians saying 900 AD, I could easily do the same for Benin since somebody was ordering those large earthworks to be done. So it is one thing to say there was activity in a place and another to say the first monarch of a kingdom founded the kingdom at such a date.  Regardless, the 400 years thing you originally wrote is still laughable.

Here's what I replied too.

amazonia:

@Agbotean,

Good job. Thanks you for your contributions to this debate.
You have describe reality as it is on the ground. Those who
have ears let them hear. Owa has always been Edo. I know
you all have evolved your Ika culture, i respect that. Going
through your historical accounts, triggered subconscious
memories of songs i learnt as youth about our legendary
Owa, Umuonode etc. Ikas are steep in edo spiritual heritage.

There's nothing laughable about my response when this person above is claiming that the expanding Benin Empire, that came over 400 years after Nri, founded Owa. There was no Benin Empire in 800 AD, Nri was a single kingdom for over 1100 years.

amazonia:

@ezeagu.

I am not  going to stoop to your level of belligerency.
It seems some Ibo don't know their history, other
than colonial and post colonial era. For your information
we Edos simultaneously learn our traditional history, and other necessary
orientations for life, while we go to schools. What we learn in schools about
history is to pass exams. The truth we usually learn from home and internalize.
The present monarch of Owa is the great-grand-son of Oba Overamen.

Which belligerency? Now you're just pulling stuff out from nowhere look:

[center][img]http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WXouAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA309&img=1&pgis=1&dq=Nri&sig=ACfU3U11bew-LbfxerBPJzFuxCbGMDL-TA&edge=0[/img][/center]

Written by Efeizomor II (Obi of Owa)

http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=kVHpTKSvF4KHhQfl9JAQ&ct=result&id=WXouAQAAIAAJ

In ignorant peoples eyes, this makes the Owa kingdom 'more Igbo' than Aba or Arochukwu.

Leave Umu Eze Chima and Nwa Nri alone, they aren't Edo!

ezeagu:

Which belligerency? Now you're just pulling stuff out from nowhere look:

[center][img]http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WXouAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA309&img=1&pgis=1&dq=Nri&sig=ACfU3U11bew-LbfxerBPJzFuxCbGMDL-TA&edge=0[/img][/center]

Written by Efeizomor II (Obi of Owa)

http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=kVHpTKSvF4KHhQfl9JAQ&ct=result&id=WXouAQAAIAAJ

In ignorant peoples eyes, this makes the Owa kingdom 'more Igbo' than Aba or Arochukwu.

Leave Umu Eze Chima and Nwa Nri alone, they aren't Edo!

It is quite disgusting when someone tries to rewrite a glaring history and account given by his own King.Owa was founded by Nri and its present Traditional rulers are of Nri ancestry.

@Amazonia: The Obi of Owa is very proud of their Nri ancestry and he does not hide it. I happen to know this when I and a group of other Igbo leaders in London visited The Obi this year during his holidays in London.
The Bini culture impacted in Ika people especially the aristocracy of The Bini empire.
The spread of Bini empire under Eweka the great is the reason for variants of Bini culture in Ikaland, as a result some aspects of the already existing Nri culture got retarded.
That nothwithstanding, the Nri (Igbo) culture and heritage is paramount in Ikaland till date.
Check out my ealier post on this thread in relation to London Roman heritage.

ezeagu:

In ignorant peoples eyes, this makes the Owa kingdom 'more Igbo' than Aba or Arochukwu.

Honestly, I'm not going to lie, this was my actual thought, because I mean, let's all be real here. Nri is held as connotatively being parallel to, if not the defining measure of "Igbo". I'd bet you have an understanding of what I mean by saying that, and that's why I made the below statement.

ChinenyeN:

Chei. . That kind of connection with Nri will finish virtually any argument. Sad fact (for some).

ChinenyeN:

Honestly, I'm not going to lie, this was my actual thought, because I mean, let's all be real here. Nri is held as connotatively being parallel to, if not the defining measure of "Igbo". I'd bet you have an understanding of what I mean by saying that, and that's why I made the below statement.

I can understand, anyway 'ignorant' wasn't meant as an insult but for its true meaning. Eri, the father of Nri, was someone who modified an Igbo culture that was already existing before the kingdom, from archaeology this culture actually originated somewhere between Nsukka and Okigwe. The word Igbo is said to be older than Eri.

With this book credited to Obi of Owa,I think Agbotaen has finally been nailed and Owa/Ika/Igbo issue resolved.The Obi is the highest authority and custodian of Owa culture.They are pure Igbo even more than some Southeastern Igbos.

ezeagu:

I can understand, anyway 'ignorant' wasn't meant as an insult but for its true meaning. Eri, the father of Nri, was someone who modified an Igbo culture that was already existing before the kingdom, from archaeology this culture actually originated somewhere between Nsukka and Okigwe. The word Igbo is said to be older than Eri.

This has always been my suspicion, but I never really had anything to show for it, except for lack of oral traditions and that the idea of Nri/Eri as the "first Igbo" or "father of Igbo" just never agreed with me, at all. I could never bring myself to make sense of "Nri/Eri; first Igbo/father of Igbo" ideology.

Hmm! Finally agbotaen has been busted,lets see what other crap he is going to copy and paste.

This is why I love FACTS!

After Igbos from delta finally get Anioma state I wonder what they will call themselves next, "I am Anioma Ibo".

I think all these will end when Anioma is finally moved to the SE region.

Wow, certain members have gone very silent after I posted the book page. The irony is that the book was published by UNIBEN.

End of origin debate.

ezeagu:

Wow, certain members have gone very silent after I posted the book page. The irony is that the book was published by UNIBEN.

End of origin debate.

Congrats my man for beating the spam bot.I never thought of using snapshots.Something has been deleting previously posted evidences.

But the big question is why would someone deliberately try to alter history clearly evidenced by his language?

Why look for differences between you and your Brethren instead of similarity?

Let us assume that Obi of Owa had not written this book.Agbotaen's comments indicate that by the next generation there might be complete
erasure of the true Nri ancestry and false but deliberate replacement by Benin.

The Ikwerres destroyed all the evidences of their identity and claimed that the archived ones were written by other Igbos and also claimed that the Wilinks commission report on Ikwerre was influenced by Igbos.


The people of Ogba in Rivers State suddenly started a Benin styled Monarchy while Monarchy was not in existence there.They do not sell land to Igbos claiming that their language was changed by Igbos.Meanwhile their ancestor Akalaka bears a name which means destiny in Igbo and is probably of Nri origin.Ogba means hunter in Igbo but they try to claim it is the same as the Ogba in Benin and Ikeja.

Why all these lies?One can accept his origin and also state that he has evolved without trying to fool linguists and anthropologists with ridiculous claims.

Abagworo:

Let us assume that Obi of Owa had not written this book.Agbotaen's comments indicate that by the next generation there might be complete erasure of the true Nri ancestry and false but deliberate replacement by Benin.

You know Africa is a very 'spiritual' place, and no matter what your beliefs are, strange things happen. I'd like to see where the people who will deliberately throw their ancestors names out will end up. That's all.

i know some igbo people are dumb and they think ikas hand titles to 419 people like they do in igbo land where once you are rich you become igwe ,they also think obiship is like ezeship or igweship .a people without kings , please learn something of royalty , because you do not have kings so cannot appreciate and respect royalty with all your government created busstop kings in igboland.
go and sort yourself out a group that speaks and sell themselves out to others .go tell your leaders to solve your kidnapping problems, armed robbery , lack of infrastructure and stop selling your daughters in the name of marriage .ikas are a respectable royal and noble people .
if not for europeans and nigerian govt. who will give you people kings,?
as you write your ethnic igboic trash on the net , ikas are laughing at you , ikas caanever go with you igbos if you like kill your self. you are a drowning group whose pride will always make you fall .

agbotaen:

i know some  igbo  people are dumb and they think ikas hand titles to 419 people like they do  in igbo land where once you are rich you  become igwe ,they also think obiship is like ezeship  or igweship .a people without kings , please learn something of royalty , because you do  not have kings so cannot appreciate and respect royalty with all your government created busstop kings in igboland.
   go and sort yourself out a group that speaks and sell themselves out to others .go tell your leaders to  solve your kidnapping problems, armed robbery , lack of infrastructure and stop selling your daughters in the name of marriage .ikas  are a respectable royal and noble people .
    if not for europeans and nigerian govt. who will give you people kings,?
as you write your ethnic igboic trash on the net , ikas are laughing at you , ikas caanever go with you igbos if you like kill your self. you are a drowning group whose pride will always make you fall .

Please go and sit down, the Obi of Owa has already laid claim to Nri and you're still here rambling? Go and find something better to do, grown man like yourself.

agbotaen:

i know some igbo people are dumb and they think ikas hand titles to 419 people like they do in igbo land where once you are rich you become igwe ,they also think obiship is like ezeship or igweship .a people without kings , please learn something of royalty , because you do not have kings so cannot appreciate and respect royalty with all your government created busstop kings in igboland.
go and sort yourself out a group that speaks and sell themselves out to others .go tell your leaders to solve your kidnapping problems, armed robbery , lack of infrastructure and stop selling your daughters in the name of marriage .ikas are a respectable royal and noble people .
if not for europeans and nigerian govt. who will give you people kings,?
as you write your ethnic igboic trash on the net , ikas are laughing at you , ikas caanever go with you igbos if you like kill your self. you are a drowning group whose pride will always make you fall .

Lil Nigga, so you have finally accepted defeat and now turn to insolence. Based on the weight of the evidence recently posted by Ezeagu from the book your Obi wrote about their Nri ancestry, one would have thought you comment about it.
A looser will always be a looser, IMPOTENT RETARDO, go and lick your mother's ccuntt.

@andre.I threatened exposing him on NBF where you and I alongside Ogbuefi have argued with him for so long.I will do him the last blow there tonight.

Abagworo:

@andre.I threatened exposing him on NBF where you and I alongside Ogbuefi have argued with him for so long.I will do him the last blow there tonight.

Dont mind the slowpoke. I was with his Obi (Obi of Owa) this summer in London.

agbotaen:

i know some igbo people are dumb and they think ikas hand titles to 419 people like they do in igbo land where once you are rich you become igwe ,they also think obiship is like ezeship or igweship .a people without kings , please learn something of royalty , because you do not have kings so cannot appreciate and respect royalty with all your government created busstop kings in igboland.
go and sort yourself out a group that speaks and sell themselves out to others .go tell your leaders to solve your kidnapping problems, armed robbery , lack of infrastructure and stop selling your daughters in the name of marriage .ikas are a respectable royal and noble people . if not for europeans and nigerian govt. who will give you people kings,?
as you write your ethnic igboic trash on the net , ikas are laughing at you , ikas caanever go with you igbos if you like kill your self. you are a drowning group whose pride will always make you fall .

See hypocrisy of the highest order! Why can't you respect your Obi's word like a noble man a true Ika son should be?
By saying that Igbo people are dumb, indirectly you are saying that your Obi is dumb. Believe me if he finds out how insolent you've become, you'll be banished from Ikaland. Onye efulefu.

Now I doubt your Ika-ness.

agbotaen:

i know some igbo people are dumb and they think ikas hand titles to 419 people like they do in igbo land where once you are rich you become igwe ,they also think obiship is like ezeship or igweship .a people without kings , please learn something of royalty , because you do not have kings so cannot appreciate and respect royalty with all your government created busstop kings in igboland.
go and sort yourself out a group that speaks and sell themselves out to others .go tell your leaders to solve your kidnapping problems, armed robbery , lack of infrastructure and stop selling your daughters in the name of marriage .ikas are a respectable royal and noble people .
if not for europeans and nigerian govt. who will give you people kings,?
as you write your ethnic igboic trash on the net , ikas are laughing at you , ikas caanever go with you igbos if you like kill your self. y[b]ou are a drowning group whose pride will always make you fall [/b].

gbam, but agbotaen u have to understand that even if u are ika,,,which everyone here respect u are still a clan under the igbo ethnic group

if u go anywhere in nigeria and say u are ika,,, automatically they will link u to igbo

but i think u should still keep ur identity as ika just like chinereyeN is an Ngwa man but in the igbo ethnic group,,,so u too can be an ika man in the igbo ethnic group

alj harem1:

gbam, but agbotaen u have to understand that even if u are ika,,,which everyone here respect u are still a clan under the igbo ethnic group

if u go anywhere in nigeria and say u are ika,,, automatically they will link u to igbo

but i think u should still keep your identity as ika just like chinereyeN is an Ngwa man but in the igbo ethnic group,,,so u too can be an ika man in the igbo ethnic group

The Wise one from Borno, I salute you.
Spot on.

alj harem1:

gbam, but agbotaen u have to understand that even if u are ika,,,which everyone here respect u are still a clan under the igbo ethnic group.

if u go anywhere in nigeria and say u are ika,,, automatically they will link u to igbo

but i think u should still keep your identity as ika just like chinereyeN is an Ngwa man but in the igbo ethnic group,,,so u too can be an ika man in the igbo ethnic group

Exactly, the way people see a kanuri like yourself as a fake Hausa.

That's what agboetan fails to realize that anywhere he go his Igbo shadow will never leave him. Let him continue deceiving no one but himself.