NdiaraIGBO:


Na you sabi. Allow God to defend himself abi God appointed you as his spokesman?

Why do you Christians have HBP over this matter? Because you are in doubt as well.

smh your assumption.

Pity

hakeem4:
Let me start with my definition of prayer. Which is a means of communicating with an omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent god up there in the sky.
While Wish is a feeling or a strong desire or hope for something that cannot or probably will not happen.

What is the difference between prayer and wish

Ask Google.

prayer is an advancement of a wish

paxonel:
not all terminal diseases are genetic in nature, infact most of them are acquired.

Okay. I was wrong.

Even the genetic problems mostly arises from inbreeds of closely related individuals such as brothers and sisters or cousins mating and producing these inbreeds.

Inbreeding raises the chence of being born with a genetic defect, it doesn't ensure you are born with one.

Remember, in the history of mankind even in the bible these were always the case which have produced a significant population of people or children currently suffering from genetic terminal diseases till this day.

Adam and Eve and their children inbred according to bible, besides all of humanity is descended from inbreeding.

The problem is not from God it's from the ignorance of human ancestors, and the only solution remains education and outbreeding of the affected population, not prayers.

Why couldn't God just give them the intellect they needed? Why didn't he directly teach them, or at least send an angel?

Imagine brothers and sisters mating, that is rubbish this modern day now.

It is always rubbish. Even in bible times for abraham and sarah.

Isaiah must have made the statement to ascertain the magnificence of God, not necessarily that God created evil from the beginning.

Apologetics. You don't know that. If he did the bible would have said so.

Infact this was the origin of evil according to Genesis 3:6

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

It is still the same thing. Why would God create that tree in the first place? Why did he make us curious? Why would an omniscient and omnipotent father allow the enemy anywhere near his creation?

So this was the origin or genesis of evil.
Disobedience!

Yeah. God still created it by putting that tree there and not explicitly showing adam and eve the consequences. He wad also the serpent's accomplice because he knw satan's intention.

no, it's not like that! It's a system created by the evil of our ancestors from the beginning whether we like it or not we all must follow until there is a deliberate effort by the progeny to put a stop to the evil which is outbreeding the closely related population and that will take the education our forefathers didn't get, not prayer.

Why didn't god just forgive the ancestors? Why did he have to come and die in the first place? He created the entire universe, surely he can remove sin from us.

The same thing applies, when your grand father lay down resources or assets for you to inherit and enjoy, at that point you will not ask the question why must you enjoy what you didn't suffer to acquire, will you?

It doesn't apply at all. My grandfather's wealth is his and he can decide who he wants to give. Me or charity. Even when a man is rewarded with a title of chief or hero, his children are not called chiefs or heroes as well. Inherited Punishment and reward is a stupid idea.

not all!
Cancer, heart diseases and trauma are acquired.

Some cancers are inheritable like breast cancer, leukamia etc. Heart diseases are also inheritable. Trauma is not a terminal illness.

but the warring parties and the government had control of them and would have done something to prevent them?

I don't understand this. Is it a question or answer. Yes nowadays we have geneva convention and human rights, but for most of human history there was no such thing.

Why then are you bringing God into them?

Because the god of the bible is an interventionist god and christians see him as such.

relax!
We have the option of thinking out solutions to problems and not putting blame on God which will never bring solutions.

Okay.

I don't think white men people who are solving their problems needed The holy spirit to do so.

Please don't be racist.

Many of them don't even believe in God, they are atheists yet they are contributing immensely.

True.

Look at their health system, education and power supply, can you compare the rubbish we are doing here in Africa to what is obtainable in their country?

They had centuries to develop compared to us. Besides, bad governance, colonialism and religion is still hindering us.

I know the rubbish is better than nothing

Okay.

they are not really dead sentence like you put it, some cases are not that acute and they can be managed

Terminal illness means you are dying. Google is your friend.

then why will a parent think of bringing a child to this world when he doesn't have money

We Africans, we have the culture of marrying plenty wives and give birth to plenty children, yet no money to cater for them.
Is that not foolishness?

I had this same debate with a guy here. After questioning, he eventualy started saying only the rich should have multiple children.

Chikebranny123:

The good book is a book filled with the message of love and grace.
It will be wrong not to tell them who we are and who they are.
Hoping they change for he who wins a soul is wise.

I respect your concern for the Satanic Anti-Christ foot-soldiers here. But our actions must be directed by the profound wisdom of the mighty Jesus Christ. He said He came to make our burdens light.
He said the harvest is ready. He said no one can come to him unless the Father God sends them to Him to be made righteous.

Every good and honest farmer knows that only ripe fruit must be picked when the harvest is ready.

Atheists are unripe fruit and must remain on their tree. The spiritual kingdom is not empowered by numbers but by quality and purity of heart coupled with obedience to light and rejecting the dark.

Butterflyleo's warning to not share our precious faith with the atheist swine is therefore biblical and loving. Please also read the Atheists Training Manuel posted in Butterflyleo's previous topic.

A prayer is a request directed to a being (spiritual or physical), whilst a wish is a desire which is directed to no being in particular.

paxonel:
if the friend chooses not to answer some of our foolish requests does not necessarily implies that he is imaginary

a good number of people have sensible requests which are still not answered !

Pataricatering:
a good number of people have sensible requests which are still not answered !

example?

hakeem4:
Let me start with my definition of prayer. Which is a means of communicating with an omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent god up there in the sky.
While Wish is a feeling or a strong desire or hope for something that cannot or probably will not happen.

What is the difference between prayer and wish

We have different types of prayers. Thanksgiving, intercession,supplication etc.

Wish falls into the supplication category

Pataricatering:
a good number of people have sensible requests which are still not answered !

What seems sensible to you might not be to him

A boy that requested for his share of his father's inheritance while his father was still alive thought it was a sensible request

phemmyfour:
What seems sensible to you might not be to him

A boy that requested for his share of his father's inheritance while his father was still alive thought it was a sensible request

What about a starving kid praying for food? what about a terminally I'll person praying for a cure?

hopefulLandlord:


What about a starving kid praying for food? what about a terminally I'll person praying for a cure?

Or those praying to God to help them from being raped.

dalaman:


Or those praying to God to help them from being raped.

Help me ask am o, suddenly only foolish prayers like a son praying for inheritance are not answered lol.

hopefulLandlord:


Help me ask am o, suddenly only foolish prayers like a son praying for inheritance are not answered lol.

I tire. Those that were killed while praying and worshipping their God inside the church in plateau state about 2 Sundays ago nko? These guys are deluded jare.

RuthlessLeader:


Inbreeding raises the chence of being born with a genetic defect, it doesn't ensure you are born with one.

true

Adam and Eve and their children inbred according to bible, besides all of humanity is descended from inbreeding.

that is correct too.

Why couldn't God just give them the intellect they needed? Why didn't he directly teach them, or at least send an angel?

even if he choosed to do all that humans will still have complains.
You can't satisfly humans. So let them teach themselves by experience, God was not in a hurry, he is ready to wait till forever, until humans get it right themselves.
Till today we are still in the learning process, white men have gone far ahead, Africans should learn from them this is not racism but common sense.

It is still the same thing. Why would God create that tree in the first place? Why did he make us curious? Why would an omniscient and omnipotent father allow the enemy anywhere near his creation?

he didn't create the tree or is there any scripture that said so?
He didn't create it, a rebellious Angel did.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations

Matthew 13:25 made us to understand that But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Matthew 13:28 also said, He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.....

If you understand this parable to the end you will see that it is not God who is the owner of the field(this earth) that created the tree.
Everything was good when he created them from the beginning. (Genesis 1:10)

Yeah. God still created it by putting that tree there and not explicitly showing adam and eve the consequences. He wad also the serpent's accomplice because he knw satan's intention.

that is not true!
As a matter of fact he warned them of the consequence.(genesis 2:17)

Why didn't god just forgive the ancestors?

whether he forgive or not the damage has already been done and forgiveness or unforgiveness is of no use. Infact, he had contempled to destroy everything he created as suggested by his angels but he turned the idea down which was the reason christ came (Matthew 13:28-29)

why did he have to come and die?

in that circumstance a wise God will lay down his life to reclaim what he would have lost if the need arises.

It doesn't apply at all. My grandfather's wealth is his and he can decide who he wants to give. Me or charity.

he cannot possibly decide to give his wealth to charity when you are badly in need of them except you are not a worthy grandchild.

Even when a man is rewarded with a title of chief or hero, his children are not called chiefs or heroes as well.

but they are entitled to the reward of the children of chiefs and heros?

Inherited Punishment and reward is a stupid idea.

that's how you are seeing it.
If what is inherited is not punishment then it's a good idea. I wish in reality that's the case but it's not.
I had a friend who never graduated from school due to financial issues, not because his father wasn't wealthy. But because all his father's wealth was shared among the siblings from several other women apart from his mummy, who came to claim that his late Daddy impregnated them . The little he could get from the inheritance wasn't enough to see him through school.
Now, is that God's fault or his father's fault?

Some cancers are inheritable like breast cancer, leukamia etc. Heart diseases are also inheritable. Trauma is not a terminal illness.

if you say so, you are correct.

Because the god of the bible is an interventionist god and christians see him as such.

he only intervenes on issues which are beyond human ability to solve. Example is when humans needed eternal life he intervenes by sending Jesus.
Outside that, any other problems that has to do with illment, poverty, taking care of this whole earth, etc. They are all for humans to solve.

paxonel:
sorry I didn't see this.

milk jugs are not living things but God is alive.

But if anyone believes that a mere milk jug can answer his prayer like the idolatrers whether milk jugs have right at all talkless or prerogative i don't know about that

The point I was making is the untestability and unfalsifiability prayer seems when you say it may happen and it may not. it doesn't look any different from making something just run its course. it isn't any different if there's no entity interfering in our affairs. that's why I said praying to god is not different from praying to a milk jug.

hopefulLandlord:


The point I was making is the untestability and unfalsifiability prayer seems when you say it may happen and it may not. it doesn't look any different from making something just run its course. it isn't any different if there's no entity interfering in our affairs. that's why I said praying to god is not different from praying to a milk jug.

you are very right!

And true praying implies that the individual should just go about and do what is needed to be done.

But many at times it is ignorant of what to do that limits people's answers to their prayer

hopefulLandlord:


What about a starving kid praying for food? what about a terminally I'll person praying for a cure?

sorry, I don't talk to Atheist

paxonel:

even if he choosed to do all that humans will still have complains.

How do you know this? And what will the complaints be?

You can't satisfly humans.

Yes you can, especially when you are the almighty God. Read up on Economics bro.

So let them teach themselves by experience,

Experience that will cause most of them to go to hell fire simply beacause they were born into another religion in another land before they knew about jesus and his message? Cool bro. And you can't say God will judge them through conscience because john3:16 says you can only have eternal life by believing in jesus. And jesus said in john14:6 that no one comes to the father except through him.

God was not in a hurry, he is ready to wait till forever, until humans get it right themselves.
Till today we are still in the learning process, white men have gone far ahead, Africans should learn from them this is not racism but common sense.

If God wasn't in a hurry why did he send Jesus? And why is there a rapture? because jesus said he would come back.

he didn't create the tree or is there any scripture that said so?

If he didn't create the tree, why didn't he remove it since he knew a rebellious angel put it there? And you mean that an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent God allowed a rebellious angel to put a tree in his garden for the sole purpose of corrupting God's creation? Wow.

He didn't create it, a rebellious Angel did.

Is there any scripture that says this?

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations

That verse was talking of king nebuchadnezzar.

[/uote]Matthew 13:25 made us to understand that But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Matthew 13:28 also said, He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.....[/quote]
So the Omnipotent and Omniscient God was not aware when satan did this how?

If you understand this parable to the end you will see that it is not God who is the owner of the field(this earth) that created the tree.

How you came to this conclusion surprises me oo. Why didn't God remove the tree when he found out? Why did he feel that telling Adam and Eve not to eat of it was the wise thing to do? And why did he make eve curious to do it?

Everything was good when he created them from the beginning. (Genesis 1:10)

False. What about satan and his angels? They were obviously faulty because them rebelling was not part of god's plan. Besides fear would have prevented Satan from rebelling because he must have realized god is mightier than all heaven.

that is not true!
As a matter of fact he warned them of the consequence.(genesis 2:17)

If he didn't create i.e it wasn't part of his plan, why didn't he destroy it? Why did the wise Almighty God only warn them? He could have removed their curiousity just like he removed adam's rib without his permission.

whether he forgive or not the damage has already been done and forgiveness or unforgiveness is of no use.

Even for an allwise, allpowerful, and all loving God who sent his only begotten son to die for us?
Besides Matthew 19:26 Mark 10:27 Luke 1:37 Jeremiah 32:17 Job 42:2 Jeremiah 32:27 all say there is nothing impossible for God to do, so either you don't know these verses or you know but chose to say something else, which means you lied or you don't believe them.

Infact, he had contempled to destroy everything he created as suggested by his angels but he turned the idea down which was the reason christ came (Matthew 13:28-29)

But nothing is impossible for God, so why didn't he just forgive them like that? Why did christ go through such a painful death when he could have simply blinked?

in that circumstance a wise God will lay down his life to reclaim what he would have lost if the need arises.

There is nothing impossible for god so him killing himself was not necessary to save us. He could have snapped his fingers or something else.

he cannot possibly decide to give his wealth to charity when you are badly in need of them except you are not a worthy grandchild.

True. But have you considered whether I have made my own wealth abd as such don't need his?

but they are entitled to the reward of the children of chiefs and heros?

No they aren't.

that's how you are seeing it.
If what is inherited is not punishment then it's a good idea. I wish in reality that's the case but it's not.

True.

I had a friend who never graduated from school due to financial issues, not because his father wasn't wealthy. But because all his father's wealth was shared among the siblings from several other women apart from his mummy, who came to claim that his late Daddy impregnated them . The little he could get from the inheritance wasn't enough to see him through school.

He could have learnt one trade or the other in the meantime. School isn't the be all and end all.

Now, is that God's fault or his father's fault?

It is the father's fault. But what god does in the bible is like sentencing one to death because their grandfather stole, not being unable to complete school because my dad was promiscuous.

if you say so, you are correct.

Okay.

he only intervenes on issues which are beyond human ability to solve. Example is when humans needed internal life he intervenes by sending Jesus.
Outside that, any other problems that has to do with illment, poverty, taking care of this whole earth, etc. They are all for humans to solve.

False. God intervened in jabez life to improve his situation. Or how about when God intervened for the israelites when they were being enslaved by the egyptians. As history shows us, slave revolts were very common and liberating a people was not outside human ability.

What about the book of judges where he picked leaders to save israel? That wasn't beyond human ability. I can give you more examples.

hopefulLandlord:


What about a starving kid praying for food? what about a terminally I'll person praying for a cure?

starving children are not important to god, he’s more interested in human barbecue by sending them to hell

phemmyfour:
sorry, I don't talk to Atheist

I thought Jesus said you should go into the world and spread the gospel. If you don’t communicate with atheist how do you intend to convert any atheist. Or do you want to convert them through osmosis or radiation?

phemmyfour:
sorry, I don't talk to Atheist

You are blessed for this remark. Grace be multiplied on you.

You can read more here


https://www.nairaland.com/4592174/warning-all-christians

hakeem4:
Let me start with my definition of prayer. Which is a means of communicating with an omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent god up there in the sky.
While Wish is a feeling or a strong desire or hope for something that cannot or probably will not happen.

What is the difference between prayer and wish

There's no difference.

The different between prayer and wish is this:
Prayers are needs (fundamentals) directed to God, while wishes are wants (insatiable desires).

How you came to this conclusion surprises me oo. Why didn't God remove the tree when he found out? Why did he feel that telling Adam and Eve not to eat of it was the wise thing to do? And why did he make eve curious to do it?

you see,
Questioning God for what has happened in the past will not help you.

What will help you is to focus on the benefit those past events has brought to our modern day people which is eternal life.
If you choose to accept it, good for you.
If you choose to reject it, you just die and go away when death comes it's as simple as that

But i can assure you one thing.
You can't fight God and win, whether he was bad or good in the past

False. What about satan and his angels? They were obviously faulty because them rebelling was not part of god's plan. Besides fear would have prevented Satan from rebelling because he must have realized god is mightier than all heaven.

he never realize that God is also mightier on earth too until recently.
By the time even the humans God created on earth started defeating him that is when he started knowing how powerful God is.

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

You see, humans on earth are empowered to do and undo and that's God's glory over Satan.

False. God intervened in jabez life to improve his situation. Or how about when God intervened for the israelites when they were being enslaved by the egyptians. As history shows us, slave revolts were very common and liberating a people was not outside human ability.

What about the book of judges where he picked leaders to save israel? That wasn't beyond human ability. I can give you more examples.

c'mon, that was in the days of ignorance, old testament days.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

In this modern day every power has been given to us.
All we need to do is keep learning.

God cannot empower us and continue to interfer with our affairs except the problem is beyond our ability which i don't think there is any problem like that.

From day one he created man, his word was man should replenish and subdue this earth and that's what these white people have learnt to do in their world.
Only that Africans are lagging behind.

So relax, you can't win God whether he was bad or good.
What will be will surely be

hakeem4:
I thought Jesus said you should go into the world and spread the gospel. If you don’t communicate with atheist how do you intend to convert any atheist. Or do you want to convert them through osmosis or radiation?

why not complete it? Spreading the gospel to those that are yet to hear about it, not Atheist