think you may have misunderstood the concept of what constitutes a property in OOP. A property is an encapsulated item of data that is stored within an object and therefore the syntax by which you manipulate the property is irrelevant. Whether you use the .NET style or Java Getters/Setters when manipulating the property, the result achieved in both cases is encapsulation so your statement that Java does not have properties is erroneous.

You can certainly argue that you prefer one syntax to the other but that's something different.

Actually I didn't learn programming in the classroom. I learned on the keyboard by writing programs and reading books. So some words I use may be the way they are used in the field and not how they are defined in the classroom.

The following is your code;

private string queueName;

public string m_queueName
{
   get { return queueName; }
   set { queueName = value; }
}

You have demonstrated that this can be done with dotNET,but can not be done in Java.
You've just told yourself that dotNET languages are syntactically richer without realizing it.

You don't get that "Syntactic sugar" in java.

By the way you can even have default properties in dotNET such that passing the an object will amount to passing the default property

e.g if queueName is the default property of object store

string strQueue = store

and

string strQueue = store.queueName

will be the same thing.

Apart from that properties can have parameters apart from just return values

e.g

string strQueue = store.queueName("FDeveloper"

You see dotNET languages have richer sysntax than java

Another Thing I found in dotNET but cannot find in Java are Attributes. Please tell me if am just ignorant of it's presence.

And thanx for educating me about the definition of properties.

@IG, First and foremost, I didn't learn my development skills in a classroom either and I apologise if you thought I was trying to blind you with grammar or patronise you in any way because that certainly wasn't my intention but having said that no matter how one learns any skill I think it is very important to use the correct terms. I read somewhere once that you should always say what you mean otherwise you won't mean what you say and from my professional experience, I can confirm that there is certainly a lot of truth in that statement.

Re .NET being the "syntactically richer",  maybe I'm missing something but as C# and Java both use Getters/Setters I still maintain that the syntax is just different and I for one don't see any added "richness" for want of a better expression in C# as opposed to java particularly as the core functionality in both cases remains the same. but that of course is purely my personal opinion and undoubtedly others such as yourself will disagree with me.  I guess the bottom line is it's just a matter of personal taste.

Re Attributes, I fully accept that this feature does not exist in core java and you have to use a 3rd party tool such as Jakarta Commons Attributes from Apache (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/attributes/) to achieve the same thing but the salient point for me here is that should I wish to use the feature, there is a highly reputable open source solution available and this for me is major consideration. You could argue with some justification that it is better to have everything in one package but it is rarely the case that everything you need and/or want is available out of the box.

In conclusion, I don't want to give the impression that I don't like .NET at all because it certainly has some very impressive and innovative features and the IDE is without doubt one of the best available but what I do have difficulty accepting is your assertion that it is better than java. Both languages have their strengths and weaknesses so one is certainly better suited to a particular solution than the other but that doesn't make either one better than the other in all cases.

@Fdeveloper, You have the right to your views and I respect them (your views).
I do not hate java either. I wouldn't know the little I know in java if I've never used it.

The aim of my post is to disspell the belief that java is always the king and .NET is just a Microsoft product and so should be regarded as bad.

I know the title of my post may seem like an attack on java and may hurt many. This is normal because people tend to have some emotional attachement to the technologies they use. But with all humility I don't intend to withdraw the statement that dotNET is better than java. I came up with 10 points, I'll expect somebody to prove them wrong and therefore convince me that the statement is wrong.

Fdeveloper:

Re .NET being the "syntactically richer", maybe I'm missing something but as C# and Java both use Getters/Setters I still maintain that the syntax is just different and I for one don't see any added "richness" for want of a better expression in C# as opposed to java particularly as the core functionality in both cases remains the same. but that of course is purely my personal opinion and undoubtedly others such as yourself will disagree with me. I guess the bottom line is it's just a matter of personal taste.

I disagree with that statement because in my last post, I've demonstrated that properties in .NET are more than just ordinary setters/getters. Apart from encapsulating the getter and setter into a single unit, you can pass parameters to properties and can make objects have default properties.

This are all things that you can't find in java and that demonstrates the added syntactic richness of dotNET over java.
I'm only trying to be objective here. It's not a matter of personal preferrence because even if I prefer the dotNET style in java I can't get it because java lacks it. But I can do the java style of getters/setters in dotNET.

That's the richness am talking about.

It has rather been very educating with the different views. But i strongly believe that we all programmers are one ,we have this great bond as logical thinkers ,
1.we share resources
2. Educate one another
3. Support one another most especially when working
4.promote one another , etc

I have coded in both languages. They are both good.
I would have prefered if the topic has been rephared as "WHY I PREFERED .NET TO JAVA"
Some how along the way ,there had been some pesonal grudges
Though the discussions were quite educating, but the tones were rather high.

There are more better ways to express ones feelings or views without hurting the other party(s).

IG, Sbucareer , i think u guys are great programmers,

cocoon:

I would have prefered if the topic has been rephared as "WHY I PREFERED .NET TO JAVA"

Thanks cocoon, this is precisely the point that I'm trying to make.

I apologize if the title of my topic hurts. But I think I didn't break any forum rules.
I believe many wouldn't have been attracted to this Topic if the Title isn't like that.
You can see how much contribution we have gotten because of the emotions attached to it.

Just for the record I'll say it now "Java Is A Great Technology"
but I think my 10 points still stand since nobody was able to convince me otherwise

cocoon:

IG, Sbucareer , i think u guys are great programmers,

Thanx cocoon. It's really flattering to get compliments from other programmers.
Thanx to everybody on this forum, I've learned some things as a result of the discussion especially from
Sbucareer,Fdeveloper and ucard.

Thanx all.

Personally, we need more topics like this one. Lots can be gained if we choose to respond very maturely.

- IG

@rookie, please can you give me the names of the other chiefs (if there are any) on nairaland so that such
a mistake shouldn't be repeated

I was only kidding with my comment earlier!!

@rookie, I was also joking

While I commend the efforts of every developer in nairaland I want us to remember that there are more angles to all these things: JAVA, DOT NET, etc. Dont let us forget about the politics of business.
I am .NET developer and that says a lot about my judgment. Meanwhile I want to call the attention of everybody to that fact that even there is a war going on withing .NET itself (VB vs C#).
My submission: There is always room for improvements and while we argue constructively we will assist a lot in identifying the weaknesses to be corrected.

private string queueName;

public string m_queueName
{
get { return queueName; }
set { queueName = value; }
}

FDeveloper Just a minor correction (to prevent young developers, ): declare private module level variable as m_ and Property name with meaningful name QueueName. Good job sir, I perfectly agree with u - Its a matter of preferred syntax.

I AM HAPPY U GUYS ARE AFRICANS (Nigerians). MORE GREASE,

@Smart K, I take your point and I have had this same discussion with many programmers.

The reason why I use "m_" for public variables is to indicate that the variable in question is a member of the class and it's easily distinguishable from a method variable of the same name. My intention was not to indicate whether the variable is module level or not. Quite a number of my programmer colleagues have disagreed with me and suggested that I follow what you have proposed as they believe it's less confusing but once again I guess we get back to the question of syntax preferences.

I should say that I got the habit of using "m_" prefix from java where I learnt the hard way of the dangers of confusing a method variable with a module level variable of the same name and my use of the "m_" prefixes has prevented me from making that same mistake again. I know that the IDE in Visual Studio provides clues that help in this respect but for me I guess some old habits die hard!

@Fdeveloper

I should say that I got the habit of using "m_" prefix from java

Enjoy! man. We are all one. Its a matter of preference but I advice u be a team player.

@enohj2ee

Arguments for J2EE and against .NET
J2EE is being marketed by an entire industry
J2EE is a proven platform, with a few new web services APIs. .NET is a rewrite and introduces risk as with any first-generation technology
Only J2EE lets you deploy web services today
Existing J2EE code will translate into a J2EE web services system without major rewrites. Not true for Windows DNA code ported to .NET.
.NET web services are not interoperable with current industry standards. Their BizTalk framework has proprietary SOAP extensions and does not support ebXML.
J2EE is a more advanced programming model, appropriate for well-trained developers who want to build more advanced object models and take advantage of performance features
J2EE lets you take advantage of existing hardware you may have
J2EE gives you platform neutrality, including Windows. You also get good (but not free) portability. This isolates you from heterogeneous deployment environments.
J2EE has a better legacy integration story through the Java Connector Architecture (JCA)
J2EE lets you use any operating system you prefer, such as Windows, UNIX, or mainframe. Developers can use the environment they are most productive in.
J2EE lets you use Java, which is better than C# due to market-share and maturity. According to Gartner, there are 2.5 million Java developers. IDC predicts this will grow to 4 million by 2003. 78% universities teach Java, and 50% of universities require Java.
We would not want to use any language other than C# or Java for development of new mission-critical solutions, such as a hacked object-oriented version of C, VB, or COBOL.
We are finding most ISVs and consulting companies going with J2EE because they cannot control their customers' target platforms. We believe this application availability will result in J2EE beginning to dominate more and more as time goes on.
In conclusion, while both platforms will have their own market-share, we feel most customers will reap greater wins with J2EE. We feel the advantages outweigh those offered by Microsoft.NET. That is our preferred architecture, and we stand behind it.

When was this article written - 2002.

Please do not quote such info here again. The matter had long been settled b4 you woke up and started copying and pasting. Read the contributions of intelligent guys above and reflect on it.

Good luck.

Smart K.:

@Fdeveloper
Enjoy! man. We are all one. Its a matter of preference but I advice u be a team player.

Yep, I can't argue with that!

I agree with SmartKs rebuttle to that post about J2EE and .NET. I coded Java before I switched early last year to .NET and so far, have had no issues with .NET. So many companies in the USA for instance are out looking for .NET developers and I mean if you compare the need, it is almost as if there is this huge move from even php to .NET when it comes to enterprise level development. Now Java may have it's advantages, but from what subCareer posted a while back, I have to say .NET is way way easier to get into and more challenging considering all that is available for the developer to do today. I mean with the introduction of Ajax early this year and even the new 3.0 as well as MS's challenge to Flash, SilverLight, the .NET developer is kept busy working to develop self and the next best widget. Now I will say for my Java days it was great but now that I am .NET, I think I am going to be .NET for a long time. No going back and no need it seems.


Kobojunkie

.NET Developer /Engineer

@topic

Topic should have been 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java for Windows Development

Don't blame him. i think he just want a present. and he has got it
Js is the bomb. i don't know much about .NET. But Js is ok

@ IG
Where can i learn .NET?

dude, research isn't as hard as it sounds, at least you could have read wikipedia

let me say at first that I have a working knowlegde of both platforms but java is my baby, so this is going to be bias, you have been warned

1. In java, you also have several choices of language as well, c++, ruby (jruby), python(jython) etc can all be compiled into java bytecode.

2. both .net and jvm do NOT run at native speed. the mechanism of both environments are similar in fact. both compile code into byte code which in interpreted into native language at runtime. this is not to say that a .net program might not run faster than a java program on the same Windows machine. i haven't tested that yet.

3 one of the strengths of java is that it is cross platform. am sure you know that native code on window and mac for instance are different so really there cannot be way of accessing custom native code without causing portabilty to suffer. of course you should know that certain operations in java like I/O do use native code.

4 java has properties, getters and setters and has had generics since 1.5 no delegates though, but then interfaces can be use to get around that quite conveniently

5 really do itunes or safari or google chrome look "out of place" on your computer because they dont look exactly like some windows programs, i doubt it, and even if they do, using system look and feel in java should make you reasonably comfortable

6 .net bringing revolution to linux, very funny, EVERY java program you know runs on linux too.

7 of course, java is an open specification too like c#(thats why you have your mono in the first place) and most languages.

There are bound to be advantages of one over the other but to say that .net is better is nothing less than criminal,

Moreover, if you are a typical Nigerian who lives in the software utopia of keygens and cracks, i guess you've have never had to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars dollars to buy Visual studio.net IDE before. thats is why you can be defending them this way. With java, you have the option of choosing between two fully professional , open source IDEs, Eclipse and Netbeans.

Besides, java's api and libraries are completely open source. This is realy usefull to developers. (I for instance learned and used most object oriented design patterns among other things just by studying some of the source codes, without knowing that patterns even had names or that they was anything called GangofFour)

You shouldn't be naive enough to believe anything from microsoft can be really, truly open.

and why do you think there are so few asp site out there , compered to php and jsp.

That said, even if .net was the only platform in the world i'd rather quit IT than be sucked in their blatant, shameless schemes of MONOPOLY of the IT industry.

When will people stop all these baseless comparisons. It pains me to say the same thing over and over and over again.

.NET came years after Java has come. So definitely you expect .NET to remedy some of the errors of Java. But still does that make it better? Tell me one thing you can do with .NET that I can not do with PASCAL. Yes it will take lots of work, but I will achieve it. Why do we still see ASP websites when we have asp.NET?

Look dude, it's never the programming language man. It's the programmer. For Zeus sake, people develop mobile apps with PASCAL.

Go get a life man, trolling ain't it.

BTW: most of your points are true 5 years ago, not today. Please check online, your same source of information. With JIT, Java is now even faster than C. Yes do your research.

And don't confuse my name with a SUN fan boy, I program in any language I like, right now if u ask me, erlang rules!!!

javarules:

Tell me one thing you can do with .NET that I can not do with PASCAL. Yes it will take lots of work, but I will achieve it.

I don't think there's anything, and some people would argue that pascal would do it better.
The Delphi platform is pascal and .NET gets a lot of roots from there (Anders Hejlsberg's babies).
Like i said many people would swear that Delphi is still the best RAD environment available (and this is from current polls)

javarules:

Look dude, it's never the programming language man. It's the programmer. For Zeus sake, people develop mobile apps with PASCAL.

hmmm

@Ghengis http://www.midletpascal.com/

If you can do J2ME, that should not be difficult, they also have some samples.

do people still develop midlets 

@

candylips:

do people still develop midlets

@candylips please no start another one oooo, haba, opera mini, ebuddy, mig33, nimbuzz, endless list of games, banking apps, a beg leave story jooo
visit www.hostj2me.com make you go see list of midlets, what about all those wap sites(i don forget their name sef) offering free java apps, I still have over 500 j2me apps on my computer.

lol javarules.

i no start anything. its just that midlets and the J2ME platform held so much promise a few years back.

But it seems like these days mobile app development seem to be for the Android and IPhone platform   

Is there anyone that wants to get into the bandwagon of JAVA PROGRAMMING and its family,there is a great innovation you wouldnt want to miss out.It is change in who people used to think of about learning a programming language.Give me a halla on:08060984334 for more details.Lets computerized the world around us.

I don't believe anyone can genuinely compare C# and Java. Why?
Java is verbose, cranky, cobwebbed, ugly, slow, stuck in the last century. . . Some years ago, all banking software was done in Java; today? Its all C#.

Next thing, people will start arguing the benefits of pearl and PHP over C#. Abeg, carry go!

@javarules I know you love your Java and you think the programmer makes all the difference, but it isn't necessarily so. Take for example, the number of primitive types supported by both languages (which would you prefer for real-time enterprise work?), also compare the IDE's, debugging possibilities etc. Sure, the programmer matters, but you can make a difference by giving him a bulldozer instead of a hoe I know thats a bit low sha .

Beaf:

Java is verbose, cranky, cobwebbed,

if you use both languages you'll  realize that c# is more verbose than Java, there are more keywords , more language structures etc.
for example:
[list]
[li]Java has interfaces
c# has Delegates, interfaces, events
[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]In java all member methods are polymorphic
In C# you have to explicitly use the virtual keyword. there's also overrides etc.
[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

If you insist c# is better than Java, its definitely not because of the points you raised. 

Beaf:

Java is verbose, cranky, cobwebbed, ugly, slow, stuck in the last century. . . Some years ago, all banking software was done in Java; today? Its all C#.

references and reference sites please , 
which banking applications ? which bank ?

Do you know Java runs on AIX, HPUX, LINUX, all BSD Variants, Mac OS X, SOLARIS ,  ( I intentionally left out windows) ?
please don't mention mono or the other experimental .NET ports, they are not yet production ready

As a data center manager, CIO or CTO of any large corp, you'd definitely use NIX for you core apps.
On NIX boxes Java rules!
(Lets not talk about telcos, ask anyone you know at E///)

There's a place for .NET (which is also great) but its not in the areas you've mentioned. Your enthusiasm is good though ,

Ghenghis:

if you use both languages you'll  realize that c# is more verbose than Java, there are more keywords , more language structures etc.
for example:
[list]
[li]Java has interfaces
c# has Delegates, interfaces, events
[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]In java all member methods are polymorphic
In C# you have to explicitly use the virtual keyword. there's also overrides etc.
[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

If you insist c# is better than Java, its definitely not because of the points you raised. 

I disagree!!! In fact I will go a step further to say you are wrong in the above assessment.  Java is verbose in that you have to write more lines of code to do exactly what you would need only a few lines to do in C#.

More keywords and additional flexibility offered in C# DOES NOT translate to it being verbose at all. Those keywords are actually designed to help put more power into the hands of the developer in making decisions on whether methods are to be virtual or not, delegates or not. Etc.  Greater Flexibility in any language IS A GOOD THING.

I have been working on translating a Java API into C# for the past couple of months and I can tell you that JAVA is definitely Verbose. We are trying to make a copy of an already available API so we can have our own version running as a Unix service and I am shocked at how much of the code I have been able to eliminate by translating 100's of lines of Java to C#.

@Kobojunkie

i agree the C# language has more keywords and constructs to do different things

@Beaf referred to java as verbose, which he concluded is a weakness. I didn't want to make his argument for him, that infact C# is more verbose which is its strength.

For instance there's little or no verbosity in C or assembler, hence the user has fewer commands to remember
higher level languages have more commands

so which is more powerful assembler or 3GLs ? you have to agree that it depends on the angle from which you're looking,

Is more better or less ?

Ghenghis:

references and reference sites please ,
which banking applications ? which bank ?

Do you know Java runs on AIX, HPUX, LINUX, all BSD Variants, Mac OS X, SOLARIS , ( I intentionally left out windows) ?
please don't mention mono or the other experimental .NET ports, they are not yet production ready

As a data center manager, CIO or CTO of any large corp, you'd definitely use NIX for you core apps.
On NIX boxes Java rules!
(Lets not talk about telcos, ask anyone you know at E///)

There's a place for .NET (which is also great) but its not in the areas you've mentioned. Your enthusiasm is good though ,

I generally try to stay away from debates focused on “MY LANGUAGE IS BETTER THAN YOURS” theme, but when you ask of banks, I can tell you for sure that there are hundreds of banks out there today that do (personally worked at some of the fortune 500 banks out here that use .NET for some of their major transaction handling).
I also know people like to say things like .NET only runs on Windows. The fact is a huge proportion of these organizations already have most of their office computers running WINDOWS, so I see no reason why running apps on Windows Server machines will suddenly pose a bigger problem for them.