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Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by logica(m): 12:07pm On Nov 09, 2009
candylips:

, DON'T TRUST MICROSOFT because I have had my hands burnt before ( Visual basic 4 , 6) and will not want to experience it again.
Ha ha, I started coding Java using MS J++ back in 98 (I found it pretty convenient, and I am very lazy). Then I had to switch when I found my applets don't work on Solaris. They only worked on Windows. So yeah, I was right in the middle of the Microsoft/Sun debacle, and I knew what the issue was about first hand. I later found Visual Age, then WSAD (now RAD), and then Eclipse and I never looked back.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 12:41pm On Nov 09, 2009
And just to add for people who think the Java language construct is old and too verbose

Well the JVM now supports a multitude of programming languages. You can now develop Scala (which i think is even better than C sharp), Ruby , Phyton etc on the JVM.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 4:45pm On Nov 09, 2009
Scala better than CSharp? Scala is a Java Framework designed to counter some of pure Java's verbosity issues. The .NET CLR has for a long time supported over 44 languages, which include those you mentioned above.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 4:47pm On Nov 09, 2009
candylips:

I think comparing the language features of Java to .NET will not suffice because it will be akin to cheating.

C sharp is a better Java in terms of language features and the designer of C sharp made sure of these.

The main reason why i am for Java on the server side is because i have more flexibility on how i choose to deploy my app, i don't want to be bothered about licenses, i need a vibrant open source community

and i just DON'T TRUST MICROSOFT because I have had my hands  burnt before ( Visual basic 6 apps portability) and will not want to experience it again.



And you somehow believe .NET workers WORRY much about licensing issues? COME ON!!!! I can assure you that it is not top on our minds cause at the point most companies make the decision to choose the technology, they already factor that as part and move on to better things.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 5:12pm On Nov 09, 2009
logica:

So of what use is having terseness as an option in a language when the rule-of-thumb suggests a moderately verbose approach?
There is nothing wrong with a language being terse as long as it allows the developers flexibility and power to write code without introducing unnecessary verbosity or reducing readability. The terser a language is, the more it sort of alienates programmers with no background in areas such as mathematical and statistical programming skills. In the case of C# and F# (not sure if the same applies to VB.NET), you have terseness mixed in to help bring developers with different skill sets together without the need for unnecessary verbosity.

It is possible for a higher language to be moderately verbose but still considered terser than another higher programming language. Hence the reason why I say C# is definitely moderately verbose but terser than Java in many wise.

logica:

A good example of "terse" versus "verbose" was 5 lines of code in Python which somebody claimed would require 100 lines in Java. Unfortunately, I couldn't make sense of the code. It was that complex. And in my opinion, it would have been coded in Java quicker (or in any other more verbose form) because I know to have come up with that code, the programmer would have spent thousands of hours honing and adjusting the code, and not to add at least 20 years of experience to have a clear understanding of the terse code he was writing.

Is it possible you could not make sense of the code because your python skills may not be as good as your java skills?
I am as we speak working on converting Java code to C# for a Networking project I have been working on. I can definitely tell you it is not taking me thousands of hours to come up with one line codes to replace every other 10 lines of Java I have seen today alone, and I don’t have 20 years of experience in this.


logica:

Kobojunkie, with regards to this: "you notice code is less MANAGEABLE, increase in testing time, as well as resource consumption, and in some cases less readable code". Once a piece of code is all what you mentioned in the quote, I doubt it is verbose. Verbose code for one is definitely much more readable than terse code.
No it is not.  Here is something to think on. Which of the following is easier to read?

“If the man is armed SHOOT ELSE HUG”
OR


“IF you notice the man may have a gun, make sure you verify by consulting the verification process for details first.


label VERIFICATION PROCESS:

If after padding down the man, you find he does not have a gun, Hug the man. IF after Padding the man down you find he carries a gun, SHOOT HIM”
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 5:17pm On Nov 09, 2009
Kobojunkie:

And you somehow believe .NET workers WORRY much about licensing issues? COME ON!!!! I can assure you that it is not top on our minds cause at the point most companies make the decision to choose the technology, they already factor that as part and move on to better things.
What if you want to try out other technologies in the .NET stack not covered by your existing license. The key here is flexibility because you might have made a decision that you do not require a specific tech and 2 yrs down the line it becomes business critical.

The problem with this approach in Large companies where there is a lot of bureaucracy is that obtaining approval for acquiring additional licenses is not very straight forward.

Personally i normally prefer to be free from any sort of license headache, i want to have the freedom to be able to let my team try out bleeding edge technologies and incorporate into existing or future apps so as to give our business an edge against the competition.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 5:28pm On Nov 09, 2009
candylips:

What if you want to try out other technologies in the Microsoft stack not covered by your existing license. The key here is flexibility because you might have made a decision that you do not require a specific tech and 2 yrs down the line it becomes business critical.

The problem with this approach in large companies where there is a lot of bureaucracy is that obtaining approval for acquiring additional licenses is not very straight forward.

I have worked in large organizations and obtaining licenses has NEVER really been an issue, politics or none. Even with small companies, the understanding is when you go with new technology; you need to think of licensing as well ( it is not one or the other). They go hand in hand.  Just to drop this in, you do know that companies that have to work with even LINUX have to get licenses to run those machines? I am not sure if you know that considering about 2 years ago Sun( or was it novell) sued Walmart for that( I can't quite remember the details but Walmart was accused of using the software without required license).

Many companies such as sun, oracle, Microsoft etc offer volume licensing to allow their customers the flexibility of purchasing additional licenses without having to pay more.

candylips:

Personally i normally prefer to be free from any sort of license headache, i want to have the freedom to be able to let my team try out bleeding edge technologies and incorporate into existing or future apps so as to give our business an edge against the competition.

You CANNOT be free from any form of LICENSING unless you are developing your own OS, your own application in house. I hate to break it to you but any software you have used without considering licensing is probably software you are pirating. Even Open Source ware requires you get a license of some sort if you intend to use it for any commercially viable venture. Look it up!
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 6:24pm On Nov 09, 2009
Kobojunkie:

I have worked in large organizations and obtaining licenses has NEVER really been an issue, politics or none. Even with small companies, the understanding is when you go with new technology; you need to think of licensing as well ( it is not one or the other). They go hand in hand.  Just to drop this in, you do know that companies that have to work with even LINUX have to get licenses to run those machines? I am not sure if you know that considering about 2 years ago Sun( or was it novell) sued Walmart for that( I can't quite remember the details but Walmart was accused of using the software without required license).

I am very familiar with many LINUX distros and i can confirm that the community versions of most of these OS are on either GPL or LPGL license which is adequate for most uses. Maybe in the case you cited they were using a pre- packaged version which might have been on a different license.

Kobojunkie:

Many companies such as sun, oracle, Microsoft etc offer volume licensing to allow their customers the flexibility of purchasing additional licenses without having to pay more.

Sorry i wasn't talking about volume licensing . What i was trying to say was that you might have a Company wide license for some feature and in other to use another feature (probably more advance) you might require an additional license.

Kobojunkie:

You CANNOT be free from any form of LICENSING unless you are developing your own OS, your own application in house. I hate to break it to you but any software you have used without considering licensing is probably software you are pirating.!

Even Open Source ware requires you get a license of some sort if you intend to use it for any commercially viable venture. Look it up!

No . . the only restriction on an OSS with a GPL license is that any work based on it most be on GPL too. However LGPL license does not have this restriction

On our Red Hat Linux (GPL license) servers pre-installed with Apache Web server (Apache license) for example running JDK 1.6 (GPL ) i don't care about license.

I can even virtualize this server if i want(this is getting increasingly common this days) without worrying if i am breaking my license agreement.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 6:43pm On Nov 09, 2009
candylips:

I am very familiar with many LINUX distros and i can confirm that the community versions of most of these OS are on either GPL or LPGL license which is adequate for most uses. Maybe in the case you cited they were using a pre- packaged version which might have been on a different license.

Commercial users of Linux are required to stick to license agreement. I believe it was the case that Walmart tried to get away with using the open source software without paying any licensing dues, and got caught.

candylips:

Sorry i wasn't talking about volume licensing . What i was trying to say was that you might have a Company wide license for some feature and in other to use another feature (probably more advance) you might require an additional license.

Well, many businesses purchase ware that is specific for their industry. The last client I worked with had a Subscription to MSDN and so had direct access to every MS software and license they needed. Even Consulting companies now provide their consultants with MSDN subscription so they can easily work with any tool needed to get the job done.

candylips:

No . . the only restriction on an OSS with a GPL license is that any work based on it most be on GPL too. However LGPL license does not have this restriction

There you have it. Even you have to worry about licensing issues when you pick software to use. So, I don’t see why it should be a BIG ISSUE when considering .NET but not same when considering other applications and frameworks out there.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Ghenghis(m): 8:13pm On Nov 09, 2009
Kobojunkie:


Well, many businesses purchase ware that is specific for their industry. The last client I worked with had a Subscription to MSDN and so had direct access to every MS software and license they needed. Even Consulting companies now provide their consultants with MSDN subscription so they can easily work with any tool needed to get the job done.


The truth is licensing is never cheap for large enterprises be it Linux, windows, .NET or java.
An MSDN license is a developer license, not necessarily one that would be used for production purposes. Having free access to software does not eliminate financial liability. For instance most oracle products are available for download, but you're still expected to pay at some point ,

who was Walmart supposed to pay licensing fees to ?

licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first grin
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by logica(m): 8:19pm On Nov 09, 2009
Kobojunkie:

Is it possible you could not make sense of the code because your python skills may not be as good as your java skills?
I am as we speak working on converting Java code to C# for a Networking project I have been working on. I can definitely tell you it is not taking me thousands of hours to come up with one line codes to replace every other 10 lines of Java I have seen today alone, and I don’t have 20 years of experience in this.
All kinds of failed analogies in your post from comparing converting a terse Python code (Python known for its strength in string manipulation) to Java and from Java to C#. Isn't Java & C# similar enough?

Then you compare the verbosity of a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE to English?
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 8:23pm On Nov 09, 2009
logica:

All kinds of failed analogies in your post from comparing converting a terse Python code (Python known for its strength in handling strings) to Java and from Java to C#. Isn't Java & C# similar enough?
Converting a terse Python code to Java? Nope!! I think you read that wrong there. I simply asked questions of the Python/Java example you gave.

Converting Java to C#, keyword is SIMILAR! I have to convert because the project has me copying and improving an already existing API out there. I have been able to eliminate thousands of lines of checks via the conversion.

logica:

Then you compare the verbosity of a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE to English?
The comparison was to help you understand what your statement was not necessarily valid. Verbose is NOT ALWAYS acceptable, especially when there is serious room for improvement. And Verbose does not always lead to BETTER readability.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 8:25pm On Nov 09, 2009
Ghenghis:

The truth is licensing is never cheap for large enterprises be it Linux, windows, .NET or java.
An MSDN license is a developer license, not necessarily one that would be used for production purposes. Having free access to software does not eliminate financial liability. For instance most oracle products are available for download, but you're still expected to pay at some point ,

who was Walmart supposed to pay licensing fees to ?

licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first grin

99.9% of software development companies do it, not just the MS's and the Oracles. Even Sun do it. Licensing is never even cheap for mid size companies. Small companies get grants to help them and these grants go a long way here.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by logica(m): 8:35pm On Nov 09, 2009
" It is merely to point out that verbosity has its benefits, and there is usually a rationale behind it."

". . . a moderately verbose approach"

Where in those quotes of mine above did I say "Verbose is ALWAYS acceptable" or "Verbose always lead to BETTER readability" (inverting your assertions)?

I demonstrated using an example the usefulness of verbosity in Java. You should demonstrate where verbosity is not useful, using examples.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 9:11pm On Nov 09, 2009
Kobojunkie:

99.9% of software development companies do it, not just the MS's and the Oracles. Even Sun do it. Licensing is never even cheap for mid size companies. Small companies get grants to help them and these grants go a long way here.

But the licensing model used varies a lot amongst software companies. The question is how flexible is the licensing model


Ghenghis:

The truth is licensing is never cheap for large enterprises be it Linux, windows, .NET or java.
licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first grin

correct that is why large companies especially in these downturn are looking to drastically reduce there licensing overhead.

I have seen some major companies build there own version of linux from source code which is used and maintained in-house. license cost in this case is zero

Linux rules in the server domain and it is gradually gaining ground in the desktop with ubuntu although this still has a long way to go.


Ghenghis:

licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first grin

I have ran into a licensing bottleneck in my company for a couple months ago regarding obtaining additional developer licenses for InteliJ IDEA. Do you know that up till today it has not been approved.

Obviously these developers have had to resort to using eclipse for now while this is getting approved.

The thing is IT budgets are getting killed in this recession and when you come up and say you need license . . management will just look at you with one kin bad eye and tell u to go and manage what u have.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 9:14pm On Nov 09, 2009
Kobojunkie:

99.9% of software development companies do it, not just the MS's and the Oracles. Even Sun do it. Licensing is never even cheap for mid size companies. Small companies get grants to help them and these grants go a long way here.

But the licensing model used varies a lot amongst software companies. The question is how flexible is the licensing model


Ghenghis:

The truth is licensing is never cheap for large enterprises be it Linux, windows, .NET or java.
licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first grin

correct that is why large companies especially in these downturn are looking to drastically reduce there licensing overhead.

I have seen some major companies build there own version of linux from source code which is used and maintained in-house. license cost in this case is zero

Linux rules in the server world and it is gradually gaining ground in the desktop with ubuntu although this still has a long way to go.


Ghenghis:

licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first grin

I have ran into a licensing bottleneck in my company for a couple months ago regarding obtaining additional developer licenses for InteliJ IDEA. Do you know that up till today it has not been approved.

Obviously these developers have had to resort to using eclipse for now while this is getting approved.

The thing is IT budgets are getting killed in this recession and when you come up and say you need license . . management will just look at you with one kin bad eye and tell u to go and manage what u have.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 9:19pm On Nov 09, 2009
Kobojunkie:

99.9% of software development companies do it, not just the MS's and the Oracles. Even Sun do it. Licensing is never even cheap for mid size companies. Small companies get grants to help them and these grants go a long way here.

But the licensing model used varies a lot amongst software companies. The question is how flexible is the licensing model


Ghenghis:

The truth is licensing is never cheap for large enterprises be it Linux, windows, .NET or java.

correct that is why large companies especially in these downturn are looking to drastically reduce there licensing overhead


Ghenghis:

licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first grin

I have ran into a licensing bottleneck in my company for a couple months ago regarding obtaining additional developer licenses for InteliJ IDEA. Do you know that up till today it has not been approved.

Obviously these developers have had to resort to using eclipse for now while this is getting approved.

The thing is IT budgets are getting killed in this recession and when you come up and say you need license . . management will just look at you with one kin bad eye and tell u to go and manage what u have.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 9:47pm On Nov 09, 2009
logica:

" It is merely to point out that verbosity has its benefits, and there is usually a rationale behind it."

". . . a moderately verbose approach"

Where in those quotes of mine above did I say "Verbose is ALWAYS acceptable" or "Verbose always lead to BETTER readability" (inverting your assertions)?

My Statement from earlier

Kobojunkie:

It is possible for a higher language to be moderately verbose but still considered terser than another higher programming language. Hence the reason why I say C# is definitely moderately verbose but terser than Java in many wise.



logica:
I demonstrated using an example the usefulness of verbosity in Java. You should demonstrate where verbosity is not useful, using examples.

There are so many examples but I chose to use the pseudocode below to explain myself

Kobojunkie:

No it is not.  Here is something to think on. Which of the following is easier to read?

“If the man is armed SHOOT ELSE HUG”
OR


“IF you notice the man may have a gun, make sure you verify by consulting the verification process for details first.


label VERIFICATION PROCESS:

If after padding down the man, you find he does not have a gun, Hug the man. IF after Padding the man down you find he carries a gun, SHOOT HIM”


Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 10:18pm On Nov 09, 2009

99.9% of software development companies do it, not just the MS's and the Oracles. Even Sun do it. Licensing is never even cheap for mid size companies. Small companies get grants to help them and these grants go a long way here.

But the licensing model used varies a lot amongst software companies. The question is how flexible is the licensing model


The truth is licensing is never cheap for large enterprises be it Linux, windows, .NET or java.

correct that is why large companies especially in these downturn are looking to drastically reduce there licensing overhead



licensing matters a lot, it can also make the difference when approval is to be given to develop a product.
licensing is definitely politicized or economized (for lack of a better word Cheesy) I see it all the time with oracle, and MS also gives free licenses when it suits them. Get the customer hooked first Grin
I have ran into a licensing bottleneck in my company for a couple months ago regarding obtaining additional developer licenses for InteliJ IDEA. Do you know that up till today it has not been approved.

Obviously these developers have had to resort to using eclipse for now while this is getting approved.

The thing is IT budgets are getting killed in this recession and when you come up and say you need license . . management will just look at you with one kin bad eye and tell u to go and manage what u have.
Reply
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Beaf: 10:57pm On Nov 09, 2009
logica:

" It is merely to point out that verbosity has its benefits, and there is usually a rationale behind it."

". . . a moderately verbose approach"

Where in those quotes of mine above did I say "Verbose is ALWAYS acceptable" or "Verbose always lead to BETTER readability" (inverting your assertions)?

I demonstrated using an example the usefulness of verbosity in Java. You should demonstrate where verbosity is not useful, using examples.

Verbosity has little value in the oo world. Consistent verbosity speaks of band aid architecture.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by logica(m): 8:05am On Nov 10, 2009
Kobojunkie:

There are so many examples but I chose to use the pseudocode below to explain myself
Since there are so many, surely you can do better than pseudo-code?
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Ghenghis(m): 10:21am On Nov 10, 2009
Beaf:

Verbosity has little value in the oo world. Consistent verbosity speaks of band aid architecture.

check out these blogs

http://my.opera.com/zomg/blog/2007/08/18/verbose-programming
http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 12:06pm On Nov 10, 2009
Kobojunkie:

There you have it. Even you have to worry about licensing issues when you pick software to use. So, I don’t see why it should be a BIG ISSUE when considering .NET but not same when considering other applications and frameworks out there.

Most Open Source application development frameworks or tools are actually on the less strict LPGL/ MIT or Apache licences which does not affect your development for commercial purposes.


Kobojunkie:

Commercial users of Linux are required to stick to license agreement. I believe it was the case that Walmart tried to get away with using the open source software without paying any licensing dues, and got caught.

This is not true. Linux is free software man because of the GPL Licence. You will only break the license agreement if you create another commercial version of Linux and you do not make the source code available to the user
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Beaf: 4:16pm On Nov 10, 2009
Ghenghis:

check out these blogs

http://my.opera.com/zomg/blog/2007/08/18/verbose-programming
http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/

Lets deal with the links you supplied.

If you think about languages like Visual Basic which are naturally more verbose than PHP or C with constructs ending usually in end construct-name and not { } you can immediately see how much easier it is to comprehend the code, especially for beginner programmers.
http://my.opera.com/zomg/blog/2007/08/18/verbose-programming shocked

When we sink to the levels of praising VB shocked because of the innadequacies of our language, either something religious is going on or a grave error is in the offing! VB, a very bad thing, as evidence of something "good"? Tufia! This is toture!

The verbosity of Java code also encourages developers to implement more abstractions and reusable components. The ease of coding in some languages often results in more code, in my experience. It’s easier to just write more code than to stop and think about reusable solutions. In Java and other verbose languages, ‘coding for the moment’ is a losing strategy.
http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/

That sums it up pretty neatly grin. Verbosity is useless in OO. Java is almost in the same class as classic ASP.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 5:43pm On Nov 10, 2009
Beaf:


That sums it up pretty neatly grin. Verbosity is useless in OO. Java is almost in the same class as[b] classic ASP[/b].

Oh GOSH!!! no!! I can't stand even Writing or MAINTAINING classic ASP pages. I would refuse a job just for that. lol
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 6:22pm On Nov 10, 2009
Beaf:

That sums it up pretty neatly grin. Verbosity is useless in OO. Java is almost in the same class as classic ASP.

Am sure this was ment to be a joke  smiley
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by logica(m): 7:38pm On Nov 10, 2009
candylips:

Am sure this was ment to be a joke  smiley
There's a reason I called him a fan-boy.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Beaf: 7:50pm On Nov 10, 2009
logica:

There's a reason I called him a fan-boy.

It was a low blow I never responded to.
You did it because you've got nothing to say about java (apart from spewing worn out religious trash), so you resort to personal insults.

candylips has solidly defended Java, but you don't even seem capable. cool

Don't take it personally, just make your own credible points about c#'s superiority over java. grin grin grin
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by logica(m): 7:57pm On Nov 10, 2009
Beaf:

It was a low blow I never responded to.
You did it because you've got nothing to say about java (apart from spewing worn out religious trash), so you resort to personal insults.

candylips has solidly defended Java, but you don't even seem capable. cool

Don't take it personally, just make your own credible points about c#'s superiority over java. grin grin grin
It was no low blow, and with the above post you have taken C# fan-boyism to the zenith. The response you had to my demonstration of the advantage of a verbose use of the import directive is a case in point. You have no clear understanding of what you tout, and that is what fan-boyism is all about.
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Beaf: 8:21pm On Nov 10, 2009
logica:

It was no low blow, and with the above post you have taken C# fan-boyism to the zenith. The response you had to my demonstration of the advantage of a verbose use of the import directive is a case in point. You have no clear understanding of what you tout, and that is what fan-boyism is all about.

I'm not rude like you otherwise, I would have told you point blank that you don't have a clue about the meaning of verbosity.
Charlie, own up, you got no clue cool. I mean, see what the other java defenders have come up with (as against your worn out "fan boy" retort). But you are very entertaining sha. grin grin grin
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by candylips(m): 10:19pm On Nov 10, 2009
@Beaf
I think my posts are very baised i am a certified hater of Microsoft

I might have considered moving to .Net if its supporter was not Microsoft.  But as long as its Microsoft . . no thank u i will only touch it with a long pole

I bled blood in my previous life as a VB , Foxpro developer don't ever wanna experience this ever again

Only other things i like about Microsoft is Visual Studio, X-box 360. i can't be bothered by other Microsoft crap thank you

@Logica

I know you are an IPhone guy. Do you know the best book on IPhone app development?  Am just about getting started learning Objective-C and can't seem to find any Objective C book with a decent review

I have been using Apple's online manuals and they are crap
Re: 10 Reasons Why .NET Is Better Than Java by Kobojunkie: 10:59pm On Nov 10, 2009
candylips:

@Beaf
I think my posts are very baised i am a certified hater of Microsoft

I might have considered moving to .Net if its supporter was not Microsoft. But as long as its Microsoft . . no thank u i will only touch it with a long pole

I bled blood in my previous life as a VB , Foxpro developer don't ever wanna experience this ever again

Only other things i like about Microsoft is Visual Studio, X-box 360. i can't be bothered by other Microsoft crap thank you

Dude, Millions around the world use the same tools you call CRAP to get their jobs done right. It is a bit OLD to continue blaming it on the TOOLS at this point. You could have easily gotten away with your statement that you are biased but calling the Tools CRAPS, come on?? lol

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