Negro_Ntns:

Pastor,

Honestly, I had to read the explanation of the wheel few times and put it all in perspectives to truly understand whatthe lecturer talked about.


Actually, all three of them, Awo Fatunmbi, Frank Smith and this Lecturer, though expressed independently, are coming to the same conclusion.  

I have not known of any Black nation that indigenously created its own industry or technology.  Black South Africa is enjoying a legacy system left by the White people.  Anywhere you go White nations create the social infrastructures and the road networks that support the local industries.  

So we can agree that there are two types of philosophies - a Black philosophy and a White philosophy.  Okay?

Now Whites take the theoretical principles of knowledge, mixes it with their philosophies and apply it to solve social challenges, this is how they advanace.  

Blacks on the other hand take theoretical principles of knowledge, we mix it with our philosophies and then argue amongst ourselves on whose solution should be adopted.  So we never get to application stage, we are stuck in understanding and troubleshooting.  

IFA has been with us for may many years and for that long White people have dismissed it as pagan worshipping and never cared to study it as a divine scripture.  We, Yorubas never explored its practical applications to solve any of our social challenges.  Time has changed and now White people are interested in indigenous cultures that their colonial fore fathers once dismissed as heathenic practices.  The presence of IFA practitioners amongst Blacks in Americas is helping as well to bring focus and interest.  

Researchers are steadily unravelling the mysteries and hidden instructions in IFA.  Frank Smith for example is a Physics researcher and he said IFA provided to him the solutions to decipher certain challenges in quantum physics.  He contended that Clifford's maths formula is an interpretation of the IFA matrix.  Now, I hope it won't surprise you to know that NASA also uses IFA matrix for space research.  Then there is this lecture where the guy talked about how interpreting certain Odus to mimick motion you can actually construct a helix shaped figure. That figure coincides with the triangle as well as the snail symbol in IFA.  He went further to say that, and this is very important, that one must not study IFA with an academic mind.  That's a code!  What he is saying is that IFA is a mystical order and a scripture, you must approach it with FAITH, whether or not you believe in it, because whatever problem you have, known or unknown, it has the answer for you if you care to take a look.  

There are two universes. The common Universe that we all share, what we call the world.  There is also a personal and individual universe that is unique to each person and is not shared by anyone else.  Each universe contains its own 16 Odus. Each 16 Odu is a duality opposite of the other 16 in the other universe.  Taken together 16x16 = 256, you get the matrix for an individual's path in life - which is self-actualization and social responsibility.  

He also mentioned the four states of being which I interprete as Soul, Mind, Body and Aura.  He equated it to the four astrological elements of Water, Fire, Earth and Wind.  Well, each of those has its own deity in Yoruba culture as well.  

What this guy is leading to, although he restrained himself, is that MAN is god and MAN has free will to propagate but MAN is limited within two polar extremes and a successful propagation comes about only through a balanced and modest way of life, the mid point!  When MAN strays too far from the center and into either extreme end, then he is astray from his destined path and needs consultation with IFA to be redirected to the midway.  He used energy field and mass to explain IWA PELE!

Usually you will expect to see a lecture like this where energy field, mass, matter, space, vacuum, and so on is discussed to make references to Einstein's equation on energy and Isaac Newton's law of relativity but instead he is making references to Odus to express same knowledge that Isaac and Einstein made popular.  

We are sitting on a universal knowledge database.  

It sounds impressive, but I cannot really say that I understand it.

Negro_Ntns:




What this guy is leading to, although he restrained himself, is that MAN is god and MAN has free will to propagate but MAN is limited within two polar extremes and a successful propagation comes about only through a balanced and modest way of life, the mid point!  When MAN strays too far from the center and into either extreme end, then he is astray from his destined path and needs consultation with IFA to be redirected to the midway.  He used energy field and mass to explain IWA PELE!


We are sitting on a universal knowledge database.  

The above highlighted statement is quite intriguing and i personally find some truth in it, in fact someone using biblical analogy here on nairaland came to the same conclusion on this thread : https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-137608.0.html i think you guys should check it out and lets have your comments.

@Negro
Your IFA knowledge seems quite advanced, are you an IFA faithful?

Your IFA knowledge seems quite advanced, are you an IFA faithful?

KO,

No, I'm not advanced in IFA knowledge but thanks for the comments. I am not sure that I want to call myself a faithful. I believe in the dymanism of life and the ability to transform and grow with knowledge and information. What you see is a show of interest in IFA than I have ever been before. Few months ago, I asked an open question - is there any relativity between IFA and information technology, both have a binary element and operate on the same number base. The question led me into places and things I never knew existed and as a result have seen things that I would not otherwise have wished to see. I have always had the knowledge about life and the universe but this new discovery in IFA has enlightened me about life and the universe. As my understanding improves I may very well become a faithful. Life is a constant change, it should never be restrained from the need to expand.

ifa - indigenous faith of africa

IFA - International Forum for Advancement.

or

Instrument For Advancement

or

Intelligence From Above

Pastor AIO:


IFA: Intelligence From Above

SECONDED

@Negro nts
Are you sure of all this your submissions that IFA was used to solve quantum physics equations? and that it is also being used by NASA scientists? It sounds to ridiculous to be true. Is the IFA concept really that advanced? If it is true how come IFA adherents are not leading lights in technological and scientific advancements? How come we don't have leading scientists all over the world studying IFA?

Negro_Ntns:

KO,

No, I'm not advanced in IFA knowledge but thanks for the comments. I am not sure that I want to call myself a faithful. I believe in the dymanism of life and the ability to transform and grow with knowledge and information. What you see is a show of interest in IFA than I have ever been before. Few months ago, I asked an open question - is there any relativity between IFA and information technology, both have a binary element and operate on the same number base. The question led me into places and things I never knew existed and as a result have seen things that I would not otherwise have wished to see. I have always had the knowledge about life and the universe but this new discovery in IFA has enlightened me about life and the universe. As my understanding improves I may very well become a faithful. Life is a constant change, it should never be restrained from the need to expand.

I seem to have an interest in the knowledge of IFA as well, could you recommend some websites/ books which could enlighten me further?

Dang! Negro, is this what you do now, teach Ifa? You are hard to find here. Anyway someone said to tell you hello. I forgot his name now, spent so much time searching for you. This guy was in Foreign Politics. Email me sometime. What's KR upto lately, did you see that Stanford dude engage CR on torture? She need a vacation to refresh, dont you think?

Are you sure of all this your submissions that IFA was used to solve quantum physics equations? and that it is also being used by NASA scientists? It sounds to ridiculous to be true. Is the IFA concept really that advanced? If it is true how come IFA adherents are not leading lights in technological and scientific advancements? How come we don't have leading scientists all over the world studying IFA?

Africa has diamond but how many Africans are in the global diamond business? Nigeria has oil but how many of us own wells. Nigeria is the leading cocoa producer in the world but why are we not in chocolate and candy productions?

Your observation is very valid and leads to questions that lead possibly into innovating ideas on originality and creativity on the continent.

Negro_Ntns:

Africa has diamond but how many Africans are in the global diamond business? Nigeria has oil but how many of us own wells. Nigeria is the leading cocoa producer in the world but why are we not in chocolate and candy productions?

Your observation is very valid and leads to questions that lead possibly into innovating ideas on originality and creativity on the continent.

Well in my opinion there is no correlation between IFA and physics talkless of quantum physics which leading scientist are yet to fully understand and embrace. IFA as to do with the spiritual through divination whilst quantum physics deals with the physical. What is the relation here if any?

KO,

On the other side of physical, you have metaphysical. This will be like comparing conscious activities to unconscious ones. For example, in conscious activity you can exercise willpower to activate your mechanical mobility. In unconscious activity you can walk or run or climb but your physical body is in no way involved in the activities because it remains mechanically motionless. This is the case when you are awake versus when you are asleep and you have a dream of running after someone or someone running after you. You are the primary driver when you are awake, your spirit is the principal driver when you are asleep. You have two different states of interaction experienced by the same individual.

We believe in the power of Ifa as a divine decree and the practitioners did not exploit or seek to extract its material value, probably because in the wisdom of our fore fathers, doing that might introduce greed that will then lead to impropriety amongst mankind. Physical sciences on the other hand and in its applications is an avenue for acquisition and hoarding of material knowledge and wealth to the disadvanatage and sometimes elimination of a competitive opponent.

Ifa practitioners view themselves as custodians of universal power and this duty carry responsibilities that may not align well with the interest to destroy or harm mankind. Quantum physics is a race for advantageous hand and does not concern itself with a divine code of honor.

Negro_Ntns:

KO,

On the other side of physical, you have metaphysical. This will be like comparing conscious activities to unconscious ones. For example, in conscious activity you can exercise willpower to activate your mechanical mobility. In unconscious activity you can walk or run or climb but your physical body is in no way involved in the activities because it remains mechanically motionless. This is the case when you are awake versus when you are asleep and you have a dream of running after someone or someone running after you. You are the primary driver when you are awake, your spirit is the principal driver when you are asleep. You have two different states of interaction experienced by the same individual.

We believe in the power of Ifa as a divine decree and the practitioners did not exploit or seek to extract its material value, probably because in the wisdom of our fore fathers, doing that might introduce greed that will then lead to impropriety amongst mankind. Physical sciences on the other hand and in its applications is an avenue for acquisition and hoarding of material knowledge and wealth to the disadvanatage and sometimes elimination of a competitive opponent.

Ifa practitioners view themselves as custodians of universal power and this duty carry responsibilities that may not align well with the interest to destroy or harm mankind. Quantum physics is a race for advantageous hand and does not concern itself with a divine code of honor.

I think that you have an overly lofty opinion of our forefathers and Ifa practitioners. Greed needs no introduction to african societies, present and ancient. In fact Greed is very much at home and a familiar guest with our ancestors. How else do you explain 400 years of transatlantic slavery, and 1000 years of trans-saharan slavery?

I believe that Ifa would be related to physics to the extent that physics is a part of the functioning of the world and Ifa philosophy encompasses and concerns itself with the World, both spiritual aspects and material.

Pastor,

I am sure you have read about Homer. The myth sorrounding Homer is deeply ingrained in European classics. Yet when you read his series or watch the plays you will instantly recognize that there are institutions in Europe that protect the history of their classic arts and mythological figures. They have woven what is grandeur and noble about their ancestry and sold it to the world as civilization.

Unfortunately Africans do not have that. I am not one to herald the errors of my ancestors. I cherish their memories and wish to promote it as a lofty and noble ending, however way progeny chooses to judge them; and because I am an ideologue, I choose instead to find fault and flaws in the history and myths of Shakespeare, Homer, Van Gogh, and the rest of those falsehoods sold to us as civilization and path to salvation.

wetin Van Gogh do you

Lmao, VG is a fraud, a piece of watercolor going for $1million! That's some fuckery!!

Whats going on with my sweetie tonight? Such a vivrant thang, Muah!

Cut your own ear off and maybe you'll be worth that much

Oh, TOH, , You need Jesus! lol.

Negro_Ntns:

Pastor,

I am sure you have read about Homer. The myth sorrounding Homer is deeply ingrained in European classics. Yet when you read his series or watch the plays you will instantly recognize that there are institutions in Europe that protect the history of their classic arts and mythological figures. They have woven what is grandeur and noble about their ancestry and sold it to the world as civilization.

Unfortunately Africans do not have that. I am not one to herald the errors of my ancestors. I cherish their memories and wish to promote it as a lofty and noble ending, however way progeny chooses to judge them; and because I am an ideologue, I choose instead to find fault and flaws in the history and myths of Shakespeare, Homer, Van Gogh, and the rest of those falsehoods sold to us as civilization and path to salvation.

I lay claim to the entire heritage of Human culture and creativity. I don't care whether it is Chinese, European, African or South american aborigines. They all have something to teach me and I embrace it all.

One of the biggest problems with Africa and africans is our inability to make objective self criticisms. To much kowtowing to ancestral this and ancestral that. When you place these things above criticism you destroy them or render them useless eventually.

I'm sick and tired of hearing about 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa'. Are africans so stupid that someone is going to come from outside to underdevelop them? Why didn't Europe underdevelop China or India, if Europeans are such destructive people?

I've brought this point up several times but no one's taken the bait, but I'll repeat it again. I don't think Africa is going to develop anywhere until there has been a proper symposium to discuss Why the Slave Trade Occurred in the first place. It is important to bear in mind that the slave trade has been going on before the Europeans came to africa by boat. We were selling ourselves to the Arabs en masse for centuries. Until a proper study has been made of this historical phenomenon, I don't think africa is going anywhere, but backwards, no matter how much you talk it up with claims about quantum mechanics or whatnot.

I lay claim to the entire heritage of Human culture and creativity. I don't care whether it is Chinese, European, African or South american aborigines. They all have something to teach me and I embrace it all.

I do too, I embrace the universal brotherhood but I know where and when to draw the boundary.

One of the biggest problems with Africa and africans is our inability to make objective self criticisms. To much kowtowing to ancestral this and ancestral that. When you place these things above criticism you destroy them or render them useless eventually.

I'm sick and tired of hearing about 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa'. Are africans so stupid that someone is going to come from outside to underdevelop them? Why didn't Europe underdevelop China or India, if Europeans are such destructive people?

Europeans do not see the world the way the rest of the ethnic groups of mankind do. Europeans consider themselves the dominant race and everyone else must bow to their whims. If you don't they put a label on you and seek a way for your elimination. You will yield or you will be eliminated. It is evident throughout history, it is evident now and if you read the policies they are formulating into the future it is very obvious that they intend to continue this practice of exploitation and dominance. They did to India what they did to Africa except they did not ship their people onto a foreign continent as slaves.

I've brought this point up several times but no one's taken the bait, but I'll repeat it again. I don't think Africa is going to develop anywhere until there has been a proper symposium to discuss Why the Slave Trade Occurred in the first place. It is important to bear in mind that the slave trade has been going on before the Europeans came to africa by boat. We were selling ourselves to the Arabs en masse for centuries. Until a proper study has been made of this historical phenomenon, I don't think africa is going anywhere, but backwards, no matter how much you talk it up with claims about quantum mechanics or whatnot.

I am willing to take the discussion up with you. We should not call what the Europeans did slavery, a new name should be found to define the horror. I know it has historically been referred to as slavery, but no, it is far worse. They did not start slavery but they joined in and totally lost their mind and sensibilities and committed atrocities that the slavery institution under the customs of the African traders would never have allowed. Africa's progress is not contingent upon the study of slavery but rather on a change of philosophy. We practice religions that are completely un-natural to us, we speak and communicate in languages that lack spiritual rhythym with our nature,

Arts is a natural endowment, when a people abandon their natural endowment then their nature is lost to them. All the people colonized by England have returned to their indigenous tongues and spiritual worship except Africa and probably Latin America and Mexico, these are the same people and places where third world mentality is still prominent. The Indians, the Arabs, these people are regarded with respect today and considered as technological or financial partners by the Europeans that colonized them centuries ago.

Look at Israel and their situation, who should they truly be upset with, Arabs or Europeans? The Arabs have not killed one third as many claimed to have been slaughtered in Germany. So, yes I believe in universal brotherhood and I understand the history of slavery in ways that many people do not and because of my understanding and enlightenement in this area, , I have choosen to embrace my ancestry and heritage above that of a race of people that seek to destroy me in the name of democracy. Don't carp on me for loving my heritage, without it I won't be who I am.

Let me know when you are ready for discussion on slavery, open a topic and we get it rolling.

Negro_Ntns:



I do too, I embrace the universal brotherhood but I know where and when to draw the boundary.

Where and when do you draw the boundary?  It would help if you gave me an example.

Negro_Ntns:



Europeans do not see the world the way the rest of the ethnic groups of mankind do.  Europeans consider themselves the dominant race and everyone else must bow to their whims.  If you don't they put a label on you and seek a way for your elimination.  You will yield or you will be eliminated.  It is evident throughout history, it is evident now and if you read the policies they are formulating into the future it is very obvious that they intend to continue this practice of exploitation and dominance.  They did to India what they did to Africa except they did not ship their people onto a foreign continent as slaves.

I don't know about that. . .   They practiced slavery in India too and shipped them to a different land, only they called it a different name.  They called it Indentured Labour.  Why do you think that there are so many Indian looking, and chinese looking, Jamaicans?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_indenture_system

- Today China is slowly colonising Africa.  It is only a matter of time with the rate they are buying up everything.  The point I'm trying to make is that it is not due to European wickedness.  An idiot that comes into money is only going to attract a whole load of sharks. And when China is done another people will come and do the same.  Why not?  Considering how stoopid africans are, who in their right mind won't take advantage. 

so China and India were subjected to slavery too, not to mention atrocities like the Opium war, but today they are mighty global powers.  I don't see that turn around happening in Africa though. 

Negro_Ntns:


I am willing to take the discussion up with you.  We should not call what the Europeans did slavery,  a new name should be found to define the horror.  I know it has historically been referred to as slavery, but no, it is far worse.  They did not start slavery but they joined in and totally lost their mind and sensibilities and committed atrocities that the slavery institution under the customs of the African traders would never have allowed.  Africa's progress is not contingent upon the study of slavery but rather on a change of philosophy.  We practice religions that are completely un-natural to us, we speak and communicate in languages that lack spiritual rhythym with our nature,

No, I do not think that African ancestor's gave a damn about what happened to slaves or any such atrocities.  They probably even encouraged the white man to be more oppressive.  All one has to do is look at the record.  Even today, look at how the leaders have no care for the people.  This, it seems, is typical of africa.  Could it be a congenital trait? 
I recall scandals where politicians allowed foreign nuclear fuel companies to dump their toxic wastes on africa soil, where people are living.  Look at the rape of the Niger Delta.  And these scandals are usually exposed by the White people, spoiling the show for the Africans that were benefiting from it. You know that most of the resistance to the abolition of slavery came from african chiefs who were making their living from the slave trade.
The religion you practice won't make a difference.  The religion is just an expression of the contents of your heart in the first place.  If your heart is Black then your religion will be Black too.  If your heart is full of canker then your religion will be full of canker. 

Negro_Ntns:

Look at Israel and their situation, who should they truly be upset with, Arabs or Europeans?  The Arabs have not killed one third as many claimed to have been slaughtered in Germany.  So, yes I believe in universal brotherhood and I understand the history of slavery in ways that many people do not and because of my understanding and enlightenement in this area, , I have choosen to embrace my ancestry and heritage above that of a race of people that seek to destroy me in the name of democracy.    Don't carp on me for loving my heritage, without it I won't be who I am.

I'm not saying that you should not love your heritage.  I am saying that you do not need to embellish it with talk of quantum physics just because it sounds impressive.  Such an attitude seems to belies a deeper insecurity, or maybe even inferiority complex.  It sounds as if you are compensating by making Ifa out to be quantum mechanics. 
I think it is important that Ifa stands or falls on it's own terms.  It doesn't need to be pegged to science via such an extreme contrivance. 
I think it is important to take the Truth however you find, bitter or sweet.  If Ifa is Rubbish then let us accept that it is rubbish, but if there is any good stuff in it then let us accept that to.  It is not because it is what our ancestors followed that we must accept it whether right or wrong. 

p.s those guys you quoted, Awo Fatunbi is a white man.

Where and when do you draw the boundary? It would help if you gave me an example.

What good does that do beside stretching this argument further away from the topic? Leave that alone!

As I said, discussions on slavery should be discussed as a separate topic. I will respond to your counter on Ifa and Physics.

I'm not saying that you should not love your heritage. I am saying that you do not need to embellish it with talk of quantum physics just because it sounds impressive. Such an attitude seems to belies a deeper insecurity, or maybe even inferiority complex. It sounds as if you are compensating by making Ifa out to be quantum mechanics.
I think it is important that Ifa stands or falls on it's own terms. It doesn't need to be pegged to science via such an extreme contrivance.
I think it is important to take the Truth however you find, bitter or sweet. If Ifa is Rubbish then let us accept that it is rubbish, but if there is any good stuff in it then let us accept that to. It is not because it is what our ancestors followed that we must accept it whether right or wrong.

1. You missed the point in my reference of quantum physics to Ifa. The best you could have done is seek clarity than to assume and explode with an accusation. Where is the embellishment, can you please pinpoint?

2. You have ruled that my attitude is synonymous with a state of complex. Who enthrones you as the judge, who crowned your head?

3. What is extreme in stating that Ifa is the metaphysical state for much of the physical theories outlined in the quantum equation? Please pinpoint the extremity that you see.

4. What is our reason for accepting Christianity and Islam? Is it because we believe it is right?

I suspect that you are offended by something I said somewhere in my responses and references. I don't know what it is that offended you. Talk to me directly about it and stop these projectiles of accusations and false judgements about me or my views.

@Pastor AIO& Negro nts
You guys are derailing this thread, i had hoped to learn a lot about IFA from this thread so please keep the knowledge flowing.
@Negro nts
Could you be more specific in your analogies explaining IFA principles applicable to quantum physics? I do understand there could be some correlation but i would appreciate if you were more specific the "metaphysics" analogy was not clear enough.

Negro_Ntns:


1. You missed the point in my reference of quantum physics to Ifa. The best you could have done is seek clarity than to assume and explode with an accusation. Where is the embellishment, can you please pinpoint?

2. You have ruled that my attitude is synonymous with a state of complex. Who enthrones you as the judge, who crowned your head?

3. What is extreme in stating that Ifa is the metaphysical state for much of the physical theories outlined in the quantum equation? Please pinpoint the extremity that you see.

4. What is our reason for accepting Christianity and Islam? Is it because we believe it is right?

I suspect that you are offended by something I said somewhere in my responses and references. I don't know what it is that offended you. Talk to me directly about it and stop these projectiles of accusations and false judgements about me or my views.

I am not offended. I guess I worded my previous post rather strongly, but it was not out of offense. Perhaps I was also putting on you a trend that I noticed elsewhere that other people get into. Like certain pro-african white hating guys I've met in the past that always quote white people when they want to sound intelligent or validate themselves. They never get the irony of it. For instance there are some guys I've known in the past that always go on about a german guy called Frobenius who thought that Ile Ife was the lost city of Atlantis. Like if they need validation there is nothing better than a white guys validation, even some dodgy white archaeologist from the victorian age.

Now, I'm not saying that that is you but I might have been reacting to my memory of such people when I responded to your post.

Let me answer your number points point by point.

1. To be honest I don't know that much about quantum physics, I've read a few popular science books and that's about it. But I couldn't understand the correlations you were trying to make between Ifa and quantum mechanics. I also tend to find a lot of contrivance in the works or Awo Fatunmbi (a white guy) when talking about ifa. But perhaps the proper thing that I should have done is ask you to elucidate what you meant.

2. No one made me a judge. I apologise for coming across like that. Like I said before I was also partly referring to certain others that I've met before that seem to have a deep seated complex. I sorry for projecting that onto you.

3. The problem is not so much about extremity as unintelligibility. I don't see how you map the correlation between quantum mechanics and Ifa. I also don't understand what you mean when you make the distinction between physical and metaphysic. Could you please explain what you mean by these terms?

4. As regards christianity and Islam and our accepting it, the reasons are complex, but rarely is it because we believe that they are right. Again acceptance of these religions might have a lot to do with an inferiority complex. Yet the inferiority complex may come after the religion has been accepted so it is not the cause but a product of it. Originally, our ancestors accepting these religions may have been socio-economic. Remember that most of the most lucrative trade was with the arab world and with europe. Joining their religion was like gaining entry into a club. Europeans traded through converted africans and so did the arabs so the converted africans got their cut as the middle men in the trades. ( that is my perception of the matter).

KunleOshob:

@Pastor AIO& Negro nts
You guys are derailing this thread, i had hoped to learn a lot about IFA from this thread so please keep the knowledge flowing.

Sorry!

Let us look at the major Odu Ifa one by one and those of us that know anything about Ifa can discuss what we know and those that have any questions can ask questions.

Starting with Eji Ogbe.

Eji Ogbe is when you have Ogbe on the right side and Ogbe on the left side too.

This Odu tells how Ori came to be the ruler of all the orisha.

The person for whom this Odu is cast is told not to be a lone ranger but to seek partnership. The wife of this person will be the source of fortunes. Never disrespect the wife.

In this Odu Ifa declares that he saves in couples. Eji ni mo gbe, mi o gbe enikan (I save couples I don't save individuals).

Despite a strong sense of destiny the querent has to recognise other forces in order to fulfill the destiny.

EJI OGBE

this is the first chapter of the IFA chapters. it tells alot about how Olodumare created the universe from Ifa's perspective. It also tells alot about Orunmila and his assignment to human beings. eji-ogbe is generally regarded as the father of other chapters. It also says alot about destiny and also emphasizes the roles of wifes on husbands success' or failures and also mentions children as being important.

wow!!!  pastor and negro_nuts,  I dey gbadun ur posts like a mora foka. Please go on   

I just read the whole thread and this stuff blows my mind. I wish I paid more attention in Yoruba class when they were teaching us all this stuff 

I'm currently a religious studies major and in my final year,  and nothing i have learned is as rich as this stuff. Is there a website or book I can read where I can learn about this from the scratch?  As in ,  I don't even know what orisha, odu, and all that mean,  and i really really want to. I can speak and read yoruba so even if it is in yoruba it does not matter. Thank you.

wow!!! pastor and negro_nuts, I dey gbadun ur posts like a mora foka. Please go on

Lmao! Please don't do that. I admire and respect Pastor. He is very insightful and wise, one of few that I will say that much about in NL. If you thought that was a sensational exchange you are wrong, so if you are seeking entertainment I suggestyou tune to another channel. Anything in my response to him, no matter how unbrotherly it may sound is nothing at all compared to my signature exchange when engaged with foolish and ignorant minds, and there are plenty of those here as well.
________________________________________________

Pastor,

Thanks for clarification. I better understand your position and it is not at all too far from mine. I have low tolerance for backward facing mules, oh, much worse, ass! I have followed your writing for quite sometime and I can relate with the way you see things. You might not with mine! There is a reason. I have a habit of taking a current event and projecting it into a distant future, attached with a multiplier, to see what the cost and impact might be if it was acted/not-acted upon today. In six sigma principles, it is called design of experiments. So for this reason most people mis-understand my intent or goal. I have had a couple of people that are similarly wired as myself and they understand precisely what I am talking about. We are different and I understand that it can be frustrating to be forced to shift the mind into imaginaries that are far ahead of the mundane reality. I encourage people to ask me for clarity. I stop, backtrack and explain it the best I can to the current reality.

I have taken the following out of a manuscript I wrote in 2004, it is the last page of the first volume. Reading this you will better appreciate what I stand for. I put it in quotations for easy reading.

Treasures! The black race is very wealthy but we are less interested in our treasures and the numerous benefits inherent in our natural endowments than we are to be accepted and approved as a civilized and developed people. We seek approval, we look towards non-Africans to validate our status in the race for evolution. The people whose language we speak and whose religion we claim responded simply by encouraging our ignorance in the quest for a pseudo-philosophy. Unfortunate for us, we blindly associate idealism and high purpose to mastery of foreign language and the religion that accompany them. Academia is not Philosophy

It is as if we stop speaking English, French, Arabic or we stop being Christians and Muslims then our clothing will vanish and we will be back to wrapping banana leaves ‘round our loins. On average, it has been 40yrs since majority of African nations became independent, Nigeria alone, not counting Ghana, Senegal, Tanzania, Kenya, etc, has produced more graduates and academic excellence on its indigenous soil than the entire UAE nations combined has produced, locally and abroad summed up. This is not counting those Nigerians that graduated abroad. Yet, Dubai a member nation of the Emirates, is offering aid to support development in Africa. Oil is the sole income generator for Dubai. Africa on the other hand has diverse revenue generators from variety of resources. Every African nation has a foreign language as its official language, as well as a foreign religion. Different in Dubai; official to them is they speak their mother tongue and practice the religion that accompany that tongue. So comparing Africa to Dubai, how should we truly measure civilization of a people? How do people evolve in their humanity, is it through a robust academia or should they approach life with a principled philosophy?

We need to study our indigenous languages and see the beauty of rhythm and form in their syllables; we need to study our traditional African religions and be convinced in our selves, rather than seeking foreigners to validate that we have a truly beautiful religions that teach of humanity as a cosmic oneness. Let us embrace our nature and cherish the endowment of artistic talents that we are blessed with, let us ponder and reflect on the power of fortitude that we have, there is much blessing in it. We need to know who we are, we need to know about other race of people and who they are because in the long run no man is an island and we must need them just as much as they need us in the general spirit of raising the human kind to a higher level of truth and in closeness to the one Supreme Being we all call Father.


Through this broad understanding we must form an intra-alliance that promote security of black interests on all fronts and invest it in a single institution supported on a platform of one ideology committed to our common destiny and cause.; last, we must form a healthy and wholesome inter-alliances with other races geared at promoting security and evolution at a universal level.

To end this volume, here is a story on a successful partnership.
It is said that Ogun isolated from the world, spent his time
clubbing and hacking his way in the jungles searching for food, but
with his aggressive manner would only scare the prey away. So he
pined starving and frustrated in the forest with only his ability
of his forge with which he could make knives and tools. Oshosi on
the other hand with his mysterious efficacy to hypnotize his would
be victim, would prize numerous catches. But without the tools with
which he could butcher them he also remained alone and starving with
numerous unopened carcasses that were of no value to him rotting. One day
Eshu came about, hungry and curious and having seen Ogun not far
off in a similar predicament he said to Oshosi;
"Why don't you and Ogun live together? Certainly you would be
formidable room mates. For you can catch to your hearts desire and
Ogun can open the prey".
Eshu then went to Ogun and proposed; "Why don't you and Oshosi
move together and work with each other instead of quarreling or
being so exacting in your differences? Certainly if you live with
each other while one can hunt the other can make use of that which
you've caught."
Then Oshosi and Ogun said; "But we cannot guarantee that we will
always find what we are looking for. If we then both become hungry
then in our frustration of the best of friends we will become the
worst of enemies."
To which Eshu answered; "Not so, for if you share with me your
catch, for I only need very little as you see, I will show you
where to make the paths, where to find the grounds where at, you
will be successful in getting good catch and that way we three can
not only be friends but an indefatigable party that none can
surpass!."
And it is said that from that day forward Ogun and Oshosi share
the same cauldron with Eshu… Well, Eshu is providence, he comes and goes as he
pleases, so long as he is taken care for he will always at least
let the hunters know where to go for their success."

Negro_Ntns:

Lmao!  Please don't do that.  I admire and respect Pastor.  He is very insightful and wise, one of few that I will say that much about in NL.  If you thought that was a sensational exchange you are wrong, so if you are seeking entertainment I suggestyou tune to another channel.  Anything in my response to him, no matter how unbrotherly it may sound is nothing at all compared to my signature exchange when engaged with foolish and ignorant minds, and there are plenty of those here as well. 
________________________________________________

haha,  I guess it came out wrong. I meant that i was learning a lot from your debate and was eager to read more, because you both have so much knowledge about this stuff.

Were you raised in the tradition or did you just learn about it on your own or in school?

Krayola:

I just read the whole thread and this stuff blows my mind. I wish I paid more attention in Yoruba class when they were teaching us all this stuff 

I'm currently a religious studies major and in my final year,  and nothing i have learned is as rich as this stuff. Is there a website or book I can read where I can learn about this from the scratch?  As in ,  I don't even know what orisha, odu, and all that mean,  and i really really want to. I can speak and read yoruba so even if it is in yoruba it does not matter. Thank you.

Hi Krayola. Where do you study? Which Univ? What courses are involved in your major? I'm very curious about this now.

Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb0IqZS37ag
It is an indepth look into the cult of Obatala.

There are numerous websites and book on Ifa and the Orisha traditions. All you have to do is google these words.

For now I can give you a short Primer.

Orisha: These are the dieties, or the central figures of the religious cults of the Yoruba. Orisha include Sango, Oya, Oshun, Ogun, Orunmila, Obatala etc.

Odu: Odu has many different meanings in different contexts. First they are what we call the 16 basic signatures of Ifa. Each signature is a different configurations of energies and has it's own distinct nature. For example Ogbe which is mentioned above is very vibrant and full of life and inspiration. This is in contrast to Oyeku which is associated with death and water/rain. They are contrasted like fire and water are contrasted.
Another meaning for Odu lies within the feminine. Odu is the Queen of all female energy. She is the wife of Orunmila, a most powerful witch.
Another meaning is tied to it's feminine nature. Odu is a womb, or a container like a calabash. So all the potentialities in the world, every possibility, is contained in Odu and Odu through a process of birthing brings possibilities into actuality.
Odu is sometimes considered an orisha too. Sometimes she is connected to Odudua. Odu ti o da iwa: Odu that created Being.

Negro_Ntns:


Pastor,

Thanks for clarification. I better understand your position and it is not at all too far from mine. I have low tolerance for backward facing mules, oh, much worse, ass! I have followed your writing for quite sometime and I can relate with the way you see things. You might not with mine! There is a reason. I have a habit of taking a current event and projecting it into a distant future, attached with a multiplier, to see what the cost and impact might be if it was acted/not-acted upon today. In six sigma principles, it is called design of experiments. So for this reason most people mis-understand my intent or goal. I have had a couple of people that are similarly wired as myself and they understand precisely what I am talking about. We are different and I understand that it can be frustrating to be forced to shift the mind into imaginaries that are far ahead of the mundane reality. I encourage people to ask me for clarity. I stop, backtrack and explain it the best I can to the current reality.

I have taken the following out of a manuscript I wrote in 2004, it is the last page of the first volume. Reading this you will better appreciate what I stand for. I put it in quotations for easy reading.

Brother, out of curiousity, Are you an Aquarius?

Here's a story I've copied from another site about Ori. The story is found in Ejiogbe.

The Head was a lonely figure back in the day. In those days, no one had heads and all the divinities and beings walked around purposeless. Then God announced that he was having a party in which there would be a competition. Whoever could split open the kolanut would be made king of the universe. Ori went for divination and he was told he would succeed after sacrifice. No one else bothered to consult ifa. Ori then rolled along to the party and rolled into a corner where he was ignored. When it was time for the competition, all the great and mighty orisha had a go at splitting the kolanuts but failed. Even Ogun with all his strength failed. Then it was Ori's turn. He started to roll and roll with all his might and when he impacted the kolanuts there was a loud thunderclap. The kolanuts were split. Arms, legs, necks, limbs, torso all cheered and came together to embrace and lift Ori high. They placed him on their shoulders and he has been their ruler ever since.
however Obatala got jealous. How dare that stupid inconsequential Ori presume to be head over us. He raised his arm to knock Ori on the head. Faster that you could say Jackie Chan, Ori blocked it and gave him a karate chop. Obatala fell and fell and landed in Iranje. That is the center of the Obatala cult till this day. Ogun said, What! You impudent little rat, and advanced on Ori. Ori gave him a flying drop kick and he landed in Ire. That is the center of the ogun cult till this day. Oshun said, I'll show you! She got a slap and landed in Oshogbo where she turned into a river. That is the center of Oshun cult till this day. All orisha tried to challenge him and he put them in their place. Ori is what gives everything it's definition and it's place from the Orisha down to the smallest little ant. ori is the source of all good things and who we turn to for all blessings.

The Yoruba word Da has multiple meanings. It means to create. It also means to divide. And it also means to throw or to cast. So when the yoruba say Ori mi da mi re, it means Ori throw me well but it also means create me well, or mold my destiny well. When that spiritual wrestling match occurred in heaven and Ori cast all the dieties to where they belonged it is also suggesting that Ori created those dieties with their attributes.