|Join Nairaland / Login / Trending / Recent / New|
Stats: 1062010 members, 1233641 topics. Date: Wednesday, 22 May 2013 at 10:21 AM
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by OlowoTee(f): 11:04am On Sep 04, 2007|
Are you sure Seun doesn't know this? I guess He's chosen to be on vacation from the Christian Faith for now, Seems he's being so used to it, hence he feels he gotta go on break!!! to see what other field/beliefs looks like. I hope he gets back before it's too late. But do remember that life is so brief.
It is well and all the Best to you.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by www_pastor: 4:57pm On Sep 04, 2007|
I do not doubt ya claim, yet mark my words; I did not say all, I said some. I have seen people possessed by unclean spirits delivered and they became ok without any medical attention. I have seen a lame man walk. In my own life, He cured me of the incurable asthma and above all, one of the greatest miracles is for one to know that his sins are forgiven.
Dear Seun, I did not plan to engage you in any arguments, I am only concerned with the statement that you were once a Christian and I was like wondering whether you really had anything to do with the Person of the Christ Himself or was it just doctrines and going to church. No one who met with Him will claim He does not exist. Even me, though you have not seen, yet you know that I live. There is a difference between believing [/b]and [b]knowing. Our believe in the Lord must translate to knowing Him, else it can fissile away. I make bold to say that for me, its not just believing, it is knowing. I know He is and lives. I pray that one day, you will get to know too.
Firstly, I am not offended in anyway and I see ya points except that your trashing my claims and calling me a fraud does not in anyway nullify my experience. It is also not ya duty to ascertain whether i tell the truth or not. I may not have your logic and eloquence, but I know that I had the "incurable" asthma and He made me whole. And if it is about logic, medical experts do confess their inabilities to at times explain some medical conditions. Thinking that we can rationalise the Lord and have a logical explanation for everything especially our Maker is one of the greatest mistake a man can make. Are you really looking for substance? The fact that you exist is enough for me to know that there is a great Maker out there. And men will surely find Him, when they seek Him. Cheers
Honestly, I am confused here. Its like you know God much more than I do.
Unfortunately, it is not any intent of mine to engage you to use metaphors and I am sorry if I did. I am aware that any statement of fact I make is only my fact and not yours for even if I tell you wot His voice sound like, you will not still accept. There is a difference when you have concluded that He is not there and when you are looking for Him.
Those looking for Him would pray, Dear Lord, please let me know you. While those who deny His existence will not accept even in the face of truth.
When the pharisees saw miracles, they concluded that it must had been by the power of evil spirits. Of all sins, unbelief is the worst.
Dear cola, God established laws to work with. As He has chosen to work with man, we have a part to play to make His plans for us to come to pass. When the Lord speaks concerning a Nation that He would bless her and she will be great, yet if that nation turns and do evil in His sight, then that Word of blessing will not come to pass. When the Lord speaks concerning a Nation that He would destroy her because of her sins, yet if that nation repents of her sins, the Lord will bring blessings and grace. Put simply, there are occasions where "Thus says the Lord" will not come to pass, because man as a partner did not play his own role as was supposed. Thus, that man did not play his part and prophesy did not come to pass does not mean that God is a fraud or that the prophet lied.
Besides, one can misinterpret what the Lord is saying to Him, and that is why we must be careful before we declare "Thus says the Lord".
Most prophesies usually have conditions, like "except if you repent" or "because you have done this", etc.
As for the man of God in question, i cannot speak for Him.
I wish you well.
cgift, olowo Tee, Delords, let is continue to pray for Seun. It is well.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by cola: 7:08pm On Sep 04, 2007|
dear www pastor,
1. Foremost, thank you for not taking offence.
2. I AM A FIRM BELIEVER IN GOD so there should be no confusion
3. However, it's unacceptable in public discuss to make claims without substance.
4. I believe GOD healed you and I'm happy for you, but it isn't reason to say 'I have met the Lord or/and he has spoken to me.
5. And if indeed he spoke to you as you and many others have claimed, then describe his looks or his voice.
That isn't much to ask for, is it? And that's something neither you nor any other 'God-seer' has done.
6. It's also noteworthy that GOD has healed even atheists or even evildoers in similar circumstances.
7. And talking about Partnering GOD to make prophesies happen, I say, GOD does not need ANYBODY as partner to accomplish whatever he wishes to accomplish. HE does not need - and has no - partners in any sense of the word.
8. Your post that 'GOD has chosen to work with man', I say, rubbishes the very foundation of christianity.
9. "Of all sins, unbelief is the worst". I AGREE ABSOLUTELY.
I wish you well.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by cgift(m): 4:03pm On Sep 06, 2007|
I am sure our contributions so far is already making Seun have a rethink. He will bounce back stronger i guess though he has refused to tell us what led to this his decision to rescind everthing bout God
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by analyt82(f): 5:26pm On Sep 06, 2007|
I've been on this site for about a day now and I love the discussions!! :DI also like everyones point of view b/c it helps people think outside of the "box" more. I love religious discussions b/c, truefully, I'm coming into knowing myself as a child of God more and it's stimulating to know that there is a place where you can go to ask and comment on things that will get you persecuted anywhere else. I especially like conversing with people from different cultures and backgrounds. Thanks!! ;DDo yall understand what I'm saying? I've so much I want to say, but this will have to suffice.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by analyt82(f): 5:48pm On Sep 06, 2007|
Samix and OlowoTee, both of you make good points. Seun probably was let down in some way.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by analyt82(f): 5:54pm On Sep 06, 2007|
Seun, He is wrong. I was really into this rubbish, even addicted to it, but I got burnt badly, so I woke up!
I was addicted to until I let the devil get to me. I went through A LOT!! I fell, but I got through it and got back up. Now, it's a little harder, but I will prevail. I think you did get burned, but you're not out of or recovered from it yet. You are MORE than a conquer through Jesus Christ who strengthens you!!!
Seun, I think you were at the point God wanted you to be. BUT, "For whom much is given, much is required." Your faith was being tested sweetie. Come back.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by analyt82(f): 5:57pm On Sep 06, 2007|
Seun, I think you were at the point God wanted you to be. BUT, "For whom much is given, much is required." Your faith was being tested sweetie. Come back.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by obo.nyunmi(f): 6:00pm On Sep 06, 2007|
because of common Nairaland - u come fashi God - wait first God go show u pepper.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by www_pastor: 4:58pm On Sep 10, 2007|
I thank God that you are a firm believer, yet I insist that believing in Him is only transient to knowing Him. He who said, "you shall find me, when you search for Me, with all your heart" is alive and well, reveaing Himself to hungry hearts. Whosoever finds Him, will hear His "Voice". If your only concern is the description of this Voice, then may I invite you to ask Him to speak to you. If you truelly believe in Him, then know that He is rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. That you have no encounter yet with Him, is not enough reason to assume me a liar. Honestly, if I am to deny that He had not spoken to me, then I would be telling a lie. Yet, it is not about me! It is about Him who wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. I make bold to say that if there was no encounter with Him, I would not be a Christian today.
God is a Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in spirit and in truth. It seems you are trying to use your physical senses to understand spiritual things! Well, HE wants to speak with you. Lend Him your heart, lend Him your ears.
I accept in totality the records of the Bible and will thus use examples from there to make my points.
1. When the Lord wanted to free the Jews from the slavery of Egypt, he partenered with Moses.
2. He partnered with Joshua to take them into the land He promised them.
3. He partnered with Gedion to save Isreal from opression.
4. He partnered with the Prophets
5. The sin of Nineveh was due for punishment but instead of punishing them, He was looking for a way to forgive them. How could He forgive them except they repent? How could they repent without a preacher? Thus He looked for a man to partener with in other to save them. He got Jonah.
6. In Acts of the Apostles, a man named Cornelius prayed until He saw an Angel in a vision and what did the Angel say? He asked Cornelius to send for a man called Peter who will deliver the Gospel to his household.
7. The letter to Romans asked, "How will they hear (the gospel), except they are preached to?" How will they preach, except they are sent?"
Heaven is His abode but the earth He gave to man. Whenever there is a need for Him on the earth, He sorts for a man. That is how the title "Man of God" came about.
However, if you don't believe the Bible records, that means you don't believe the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus. Yet, I am delighted to announce to you that God loves you and sent Jesus to take your purnishment for sins.
If you recieve Him, then you shall recieve POWER to become one of His own.
Did I say POWER? Yes, Power will come on you and that includes power to hear Him. If you don't hear Him, perhaps you are yet to know Him. Seek Him, while He may be found, call upon Him, while He is near.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by UPRISING: 12:47am On Sep 13, 2007|
the almighty GOD which created u and gave u
life, will prove to u that he is still God and he
never changed, ur believe does not even
change him for what ever season.
but i strongly believe that one DAY, the same
GOD of heaven will USE you, and he will prove
to u that his is NOT JUST GOD, BUT THE ALMIGHT
GOD. THE INDISPENSIBLE, EVEN WHEN MAN IS
MORTAL HIS IS INMORTAL.
SEUN, GOD WILL USE YOU FOR SOMETHING
GREAT. UR BELIEVE DOES NOT STOP HIM
FROM THAT, AND AT THE END U WILL
CONFESS THAT JESUS IS LORD.
IS ONLY THE FOOL THAT SAYS IN HIS HEART
THERE IS NO GOD, AT LIST U BELIEVE THERE IS GOD.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by cgift(m): 10:58am On Sep 13, 2007|
AMEN to Uprising
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by geegee(f): 7:13pm On Sep 14, 2007|
i don't know who is "christan" think they are? gosh coming on here to preach about what? the dude say's he doesn't believe in god anymore atleast he did once upon a time may be he has no evidence of his exitance can't you guys just respect that and let sleeping dogs lay
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by cgift(m): 7:34pm On Sep 14, 2007|
Who be this? Your construction dey make me purge.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by weebee(f): 4:15pm On Nov 29, 2007|
Seun I like you so much but I can only say may God 4give you.
Who do you take God for? You? doubting His existence? Who gave you the ability and the power of reasoning to put this forum together? Who is behind keeping it running and people keep registering everyday? Do you think it is your power, intelligence or abilities? Please go and inquire from Nebuchadenasir he will tell you weather GOD exists or not.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by olabowale(m): 4:37pm On Nov 29, 2007|
@Seun: But you have never opted for what will give you life, Islam!
Lets talk about it.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by honeric01(m): 5:54pm On Nov 29, 2007|
God cannot or does not show himself to people that doubt except if he is in need of them, the only reason why God showed himself to Paul was because he needed to use him, just like Abraham (The voice) and then Moses, because they were a tool to be used by him, maybe when you seek God with genuine mind and heart, then he might show himself forth for you to see,
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by IDINRETE: 6:18pm On Nov 29, 2007|
Did god show himself to paul or jesus did?
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by naijamark(m): 7:09pm On Nov 29, 2007|
Seun, I do not think u've ever even been a Christian. I mean a REAL CHRISTIAN.
So, how could u claim 2 stop beign what u've never been?
Man has been designed 2 always have d consciousnes of God @ heart and hence conscience.
The Atheism u are attempting is a SCIENCE FICTION, A THEORY UNPROOFED.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by olabowale(m): 9:04pm On Nov 29, 2007|
@Naijamark: Please could you analyse who is being referred to, in Deut. 18, verse 18?
Where it is being said that a prophet will be raised, who will be like Moses. Please give me
the spiritual/religion breakdown of it, without using any other verse(s), to aid in the
explanation. I will have more questions from the Bible after this. Thanks.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by davidylan(m): 10:33pm On Nov 29, 2007|
WHY the strict demand that no other verses be used to explain Deut 18:18? Is it because the minute you look at it in context of other supporting scripture your attempt to force mohammed into it falls flat on its face?
The bible says "out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses a matter is confirmed". So also the bible . . . u dont make conclusions on prophecy on just one verse. Alhaji, are you reading the quran at all? this ur unhealthy fascination with the bible is unbecoming of Allah's slaves!
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by olabowale(m): 1:59pm On Nov 30, 2007|
@Davidylan: By Allah, I read the Qur'an. By Allah, I don't read the Bible. By Allah, when I read the post of the Christians
and they give a particular Verse, I may pay little attention to it. By Allah, when I make my salah, especially, the early
morning prayers, I see all the hidden answers of the Bible verse, in front of me. Initially I did not want to upset anyone,
but as much as I love you, you kinda make me begin to wanna grind it into your memory. Rightfully so!
Now, why I restrict the explanation into just the single verse in question is this; Look if I were to describe you, I must
restrict my description to you and all your characteristic qualities, including where you reside and your bloodline. I just
don't describe you as just by your name and use any and all that describe male gender and say that I am done. You are
more than a male. You are David, and not just David, but from a particular family in a paricular residence.
That verse should have been sufficient to describe who ever that person is. You do not need any supporting verse, unless
you can demostrate that that verse is not complete. Either way, I will win the argument, because you will be telling us
that your argument is not conclusive, for Jesus or even against Muhammad.
However, from the spirituality of it, I can paint a clear picture of Muhammad and wipe out whatever blurred picture of jesus (as),
that you may attempt to paint.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by janami(f): 7:35pm On Nov 30, 2007|
why God allowed wickedness into the world: it was neva God's intention for wickedness to come into the world. The bible says when God created man, He made Him in His own image. God gave to man authority over all that was on the earth with just one rule: Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for when he does it eat, He will surely die. God was not talking about physical death, rather He was talking about spiritual death. That is why when we are saved, we say we have become born again. To continue the story, Adam was tricked by Eve who was in turn tricked by the devil. Now the devil is a fallen angel, kicked out of Heaven for his bad ways. So because devil knew that man would be dead spiritually after eating the fruit, he decided to trick them.
Note: God gave a warning which man chose to ignore. wickedness started here
The devil knows that his lot is eternal damnation and is tryig all He can to pull as many people as he can to join him there, this is why we have to be wary of him
Humans in general are only suffering for the sins of Adam and eve and God in His infinite mercy and abundant love still saw it fit to forgive us and went as far as sending His only begotten son to die for our sins, that if only we beleive in Him, we will see the kingdom of God.
Am i boring u?
God doesnt choose for us to suffer. He loves us with an unconditional love and all He asks in return is for us to have that kind of love for Him too.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by Dorcasde(f): 5:47am On Dec 02, 2007|
Why Does God Allow Tragedies?
We seem to be living in a time of tragedies, natural and man-made. And as the first anniversary of the dastardly terrorist acts of September 11, 2001, approaches, many people are again asking why God permits tragedies to befall human beings. But it is not only major catastrophes that elicit the question. More generally, people wonder why God, who is described as Love and characterized as omnipotent, allows human suffering. Others put the question differently; they ask: why does God allow evil? Sometimes the question takes a very personal form when disaster hits. Victims ask: why me?
This question, which has been asked for ages, gives rise to several other important issues. One of these is whether our understanding of the Love and Justice of God is correct. Does the correct concept of Divine Love differ from our human conception? If so, in what way? The Omnipotence of God is another issue. The contemporary human understanding of the Omnipotence of God is captured by the popular saying that "to God nothing is impossible"; by which people mean that God can do and undo anything. In the light of tragedies, natural disasters, and widespread human suffering, what are we to make of this conception of the Omnipotence of God? Is it possible that our idea of God’s Omnipotence is wrong? Surely, if God were omnipotent in the sense most people think, He would banish suffering and tragedies. I do not intend to address these very important questions today. But I must hasten to state that, I am convinced that the popular contemporary conceptions of Divine Love and of the Omnipotence of God are wrong.
I recall that during the "National Day of Prayer and Remembrance" on Friday, September 14, 2001, Rev. Billy Graham raised and tried to answer the question "why does God allow evil?" But how do we understand something like this? "Why does God allow evil like this to take place?", he asked. He went on to say: "I have been asked on hundreds of times in my life why God allows tragedy and suffering. I have to confess that I really do not know the answer totally, even to my own satisfaction. I have to accept, by faith, that God is sovereign, and He is a God of love and mercy and compassion in the midst of suffering. The Bible says God is not the author of evil. It speaks of evil as a mystery."
There is in fact a clear, simple, and intelligible answer to this all-important question. First, it should be noted that those who ask the question assume that the omnipotence of God is of such a nature that He can intervene at will in any matter, anywhere, and at any time. Such a conception of omnipotence implies the possibility of arbitrary action. But God does not act arbitrarily; His Perfection precludes all arbitrariness. The truth is that God does not at all intervene in the great and small affairs of men, be it wars, accidents, terrorism, floods, fires, famines, etc. From the very beginning, God wove into Creation His perfect Laws, which acting somewhat like a computer program, carry out His Will immutably and irresistibly. God’s Work is without flaws and, therefore, requires no correction or intervention. His Love and Justice are built into His unchanging and unchangeable Laws. It is through these Laws that Creation and all creatures came into being and it is through them that everything is maintained.
The Will of God and the Laws which manifest this Will in Creation are perfect. Because they are perfect, they cannot be improved upon and they cannot be subjected to even the minutest modification. All that God does is to permit His Laws and their applications to be brought to the attention of human beings dwelling on earth and in other parts of material Creation. This is the role that various earthly prophets and spiritual teachers have played over the ages. By adjusting to these Laws voluntarily, human beings receive the immeasurable blessings that are inherent in God’s Creation. When we deviate from His Laws, we invite suffering, tragedies, etc. on ourselves. In the light of this, instead of asking why God allows tragedies, the question really should be: why do we human beings allow tragedies? Why do we not learn the true Will of God and live accordingly so that only blessings will be our lot? God wills only joy and peace; He has no hands in our suffering and calamities!
I should add that human beings as human spirits are endowed with Free Will. This means that they are free to make choices and are compelled to experience the consequences of the choices they freely make, in accordance with the Law of Reciprocal Action, which ensures that we reap whatsoever we sow --- good or bad. The length of the interval between sowing and reaping depends on the nature of what is sown and the part of the material world in which the human spirit resides. Sometimes, the nature of what is sown is such that the harvest is not due until the next incarnation on earth (in another physical body) of the human spirit concerned. Tragedies and suffering are the consequences of the wrong and bad choices we human spirits have made during thousands of years of existence involving many incarnations in various parts of the earth and as members of various races, ethnic groups, and communities.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by Dorcasde(f): 5:48am On Dec 02, 2007|
Tragedies and Spiritual Progress
The events associated with the terrorist carnage of September 11, 2001 point to an important aspect of the working of the laws of God with respect to tragedies, natural and man-made. This is the fact that victims of tragedies may not have been guilty of any wrongdoing in any sense. While it is true that we do reap whatsoever we sow, it is also the case that not all personal tragedies are the harvests of seeds previously sown in the present or past earth-life. Some of the passengers on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania consciously and voluntarily decided to sacrifice their own lives to save the lives of other people targeted by the terrorists. Hundreds of New York firemen got trapped and were killed while voluntarily trying to save people at the World Trade Center. These people demonstrated superhuman love. They sowed love and they will, in their continuing existence, definitely reap multiples of the love they sowed. Their courageous acts of love are examples of what is called mission karma.
Mission Karma is a fate or a consequence that a person voluntarily accepts in order to fulfill a particular mission. Suppose a house is burning and I enter it to save a child trapped in it. By undertaking the mission, I voluntarily accept the possibility, indeed the likelihood, of being burnt. Any burns I receive are the associated mission karma. In general, any person who voluntarily, and out of genuine love, accepts and carries out a virtuous mission that is associated with dangers is at the same time sowing good seeds --- seeds of pure love. The seeds will grow, mature, and, in due course, yield a bountiful harvest. Such harvests arising from acts of selfless love are the treasures we store for ourselves in heaven; they form points of anchor for the invisible threads that pull us to Paradise, our spiritual home.
God does not at all intervene in the great and small affairs of men, be it wars, accidents, terrorism, natural disasters, etc. From the very beginning, God wove into Creation His perfect Laws, which acting somewhat like a computer program, carry out His Will immutably and irresistibly. God's Love and Justice are built into His unchanging and unchangeable Laws, by which the whole Creation is maintained. Because the Will of God and the Laws that manifest this Will in Creation are perfect, they cannot be improved upon and they cannot be subjected to even the minutest modification. All that God does is to permit His Laws and their applications to be brought to the attention of human beings dwelling on earth and in other parts of material Creation. This is the role that various prophets and spiritual teachers have played over the ages. By adjusting to these Laws voluntarily, human beings receive the immeasurable blessings that are inherent in God's Creation. When we deviate from His Laws, we invite suffering and tragedies on ourselves. Moreover, to appreciate Divine Justice, we should know that every human being has been on earth several times before in other physical bodies. Nobody is here for the first time; therefore, babies are old souls in young bodies. Thus, we all carry with us good and bad karma dating from this and previous earth-lives.
Bad karma and mission karma are, however, not the only explanations for suffering and tragedies. To understand this, we should note that deviation from the path dictated by the Will of God does not always take the form of specific crimes or sins in their ordinary and popular senses. Spiritual inactivity, spiritual indolence and indifference constitute deviation from God's Will, because these go against God's Law of Movement. Motion is a fundamental principle throughout Creation. Even the most casual observation on earth must indicate to us the utmost significance of motion. We note that all matter is in constant movement. If a portion of a fresh, rapidly flowing river is diverted to form a stagnant pool, the pool soon loses its freshness. The river maintains its freshness through movement. A body that is exercised stays healthier than one that does not receive any exercise. In general, any ability that is used improves; one that is not used atrophies. All these are effects of the Law of Movement.
The principle of adaptation is a consequence of the Law of Movement. The human spirit is subject to this same Law of Adaptation. The spiritually receptive part of the brain, the cerebellum, has become stunted relative to the intellectual part, the cerebrum, because human beings have busied themselves almost exclusively with non-spiritual intellectual activities. Thus, we have lost most of our spiritual abilities and hardly appreciate a spiritual outlook on life. The Law of Movement implies that we cannot achieve anything of significance without effort. Thus, indolence of whatever description (physical, mental, spiritual) offends against the Law of Movement, and, therefore, against the Will of God. Without movement the spirit cannot achieve its goal of becoming mature. The spirit must be kept active. Unfortunately, suffering and tragedies are sometimes necessary to generate spiritual movement.
The events of September 11, 2001 demonstrate the fact that tragedies can ignite heroism, generosity, caring and compassion and diverse acts of love. Tragedies may promote reflection about the meaning of life and suggest the need to reorder our priorities and reassess the value we place on material things as well as reconsider our relationships with fellow human beings. These are precisely the actions that make for spiritual progress. Conversely, spiritual indolence or spiritual stagnation may invite tragedies and suffering to jolt us from our spiritual slumber.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by weebee(f): 2:05pm On Dec 03, 2007|
That was quite impressive! summarily if I got you right you are saying God has programmed the world's events and He doesnt modify what has been programmed ,so we are majorly responsible for all the occurences. Then what about the aspect of his mercies where does it applies. To some extent you got me confused and i really wish to know fron which religion angle you are viewing all these. Also what are you talking about when you say good and bad karma.Really you have educated me ins ome ways about God and you have got me thinking too.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by auwal87(m): 9:06pm On Dec 03, 2007|
SEUN ACCEPT ISLAM
GOD Almighty is neither a trinity, nor duality, nor plural in Islam:
"They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (The Noble Quran, 5:73)"
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
There are two roles that the Holy Spirit is responsible for according to Islam:
1- It creates our "spirits." Allah Almighty uses it to blow into our mothers' wombs our human-spirits. That is why abortion is prohibited in Islam, because the fetus or foetus does have spirit (life) and it is a human being. It's not just a little piece of unliving flesh:
"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (The Noble Quran, 32:9)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 38:72)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 15:29)"
"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples. (The Noble Quran, 21:91)"
"And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). (The Noble Quran, 66:12)"
2- It is used to provide Divine Guidance to the Believers, those whom Allah Almighty Loves and Favors. It's not just the Holy Spirit that gives Guidance. Angels too give it:
"Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of the Throne (of Authority): by His Command doth He send the Spirit (of inspiration) to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting,- (The Noble Quran, 40:15)"
"Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (The Noble Quran, 16:102)"
"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day, loving those who resist God and His Apostle, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a Spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). God will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of God. Truly it is the Party of God that will achieve Felicity. (The Noble Quran, 58:22)"
"Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' (The Noble Quran, 5:110)"
So as you can see, Allah Almighty Created the Holy Spirit for specific functions not only on this earth, but also perhaps else where in the Universe where we don't know about. But it is in no way GOD Almighty Himself.
2- The Role of the Holy Spirit in the Bible:
The Bible is similar to the Noble Quran regarding the role of the Holy Spirit. It never claimed that the Holy Spirit is GOD Almighty Himself. In section 4 below, you will see some of the types of the Holy Spirit, or Spirit, that GOD Almighty Created for Mankind. But for now, let us see what the Bible says about the Holy Spirit:
"When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:30)"
"Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 139:7)"
"Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 143:10)"
So far, these verses are talking about the Spirit from GOD Almighty. The first verse above, Psalm 104:30, perfectly agrees with the Noble Verses above about GOD Almighty Blowing His Spirit into our mothers' wombs when we're fetus.
So does this now mean that the Holy Spirit, in the Bible, is part of GOD Almighty?
Absolutely not! The Bible is filled with figurative speech. I've written a detailed article proving this using many examples. The Holy Spirit mentioned above is a creation from GOD Almighty. It's purpose is to create our spirits as mentioned in Psalm 104:30. Another purpose for the Holy Spirit is to Guide the Believers:
1 Samuel 18:10 "The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand, " GOD Almighty has an evil spirit? Obviously not, it's only metaphoric as mentioned above.
1 Samuel 19:9 "But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,, " ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!
1 Kings 22:22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked. " 'I will go out and be a LYING spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
1 Kings 22:23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
2 Chronicles 18:21 " 'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
Numbers 24:2 "When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him"
Judges 3:10 "The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into
the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him."
Judges 6:34 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him."
Judges 11:29 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites."
Judges 14:6 "The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told
neither his father nor his mother what he had done."
Judges 14:19 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. He went down to Ashkelon, struck down thirty of their men, stripped them of their belongings and gave their clothes to those who had explained the riddle. Burning with anger, he went up to his father's house."
Judges 15:14 "As he approached Lehi, the Philistines came toward him shouting. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. The ropes on his arms became like charred flax, and the bindings dropped from his hands."
1 Samuel 10:6 "The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person."
1 Samuel 10:10 "When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying."
1 Samuel 11:6 "When Saul heard their words, the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he burned with anger."
1 Samuel 16:13 "So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the LORD came upon David in power. Samuel then went to Ramah."
Luke 1:35 "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you (Mary), and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."
Luke 2:25 "Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him."
There are, as I mentioned, several types of this Spirit as mentioned in section 4 below.
So if Jesus is GOD because the Holy Spirit came upon him, then the others mentioned above should also be GOD Almighty too.
3- The Holy Spirit is a Creation of GOD Almighty and it is under Him just like the Angels according to the Noble Quran:
Allah Almighty Said:
"The Day that the Spirit and the Angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. (The Noble Quran, 78:38)"
"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall- The Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,- (A Penalty) from God, Lord of the Ways of Ascent. The Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience of beautiful (contentment). (The Noble Quran, 70:1-5)"
"Therein come down the Angels and the Spirit by God's permission, on every errand: (The Noble Quran, 97:4)"
"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
These Noble Verse are the Ultimate knock out to the polytheist trinitarian pagans who are trying, through their absurd writings, to prove that the Holy Spirit in the Noble Quran is the other part of Allah Almighty; that he is at least a dual GOD if not a triune one.
As you clearly see from these Noble Verses and the ones above in the beginning of the article, trinity and plurality of GOD Almighty is blasphemy! So dear Muslim brothers and sisters, please be cautious from these satanic deceivers and their new tricks and desperate false interpretations of the Noble Quran.
4- Why can't we call it GOD as trinitarians do?
First of all, it is important to know that satan's biggest lie, trinity, is only an interpretation and a conclusion. There is not a single text in the Bible that says the Holy Spirit is GOD Almighty, nor does that satanic word, trinity, even exist in the Bible. People during Constantine's days around year 325, because they were and still are naturally inclined to idol worship, polytheism and paganism as the Far Eastern religions are today, they decided to consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit as GOD Almighty. Satan's deception and evil is overwhelming and powerful. It is no surprise that people fell for this lie by the billions throughout history, as many more billions had fell for satan's lies in the Far Eastern pagan religions. Trinity, like I said, doesn't even exist in the bible. The word doesn't exist anywhere in the book, nor do we have any text that says Jesus is the Creator of the Universe. The same also goes for the Holy Spirit.
The reason why Muslims don't call the Holy Spirit as GOD Almighty is because it is just a creation of GOD Almighty with specific and limited duties as I clearly demonstrated above from the Noble Quran. Like the Angels and the other Universal Spirits, the Holy Spirit is unknown to us and we can't fully describe it. But nonetheless, this doesn't give anyone the right to start getting colorful and smart and deceive the weak-minded and call it and other creations as GOD Almighty.
I have a long and detailed section that refutes the lie of trinity from the Bible. It's best if you read it and see the Truth for yourself.
Also, it seems clear that the Bible has several types of Universal Spirits, or Holy Spirits. For instance, we see a prediction about the "Spirit of Fearing GOD" being installed in the coming Prophet, Jesus:
1. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD (Jesus fearing his GOD)--
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;
As we see in Isaiah 11:1-3, there is:
1- Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding.
2- Spirit of Counsel and of power.
3- Spirit of Knowledge.
4- Spirit of the fear of the LORD.
Also, the verses above say "and he will delight in the fear of the LORD", which clearly proves that Jesus is under GOD Almighty and can not be equivalent to Him or part of Him, because GOD Almighty has no fear in Him. He Created fear, or the Spirit of Fear, and He installs it on whom ever He pleases. But He Himself doesn't have that Spirit in Him!
The verses above also say "He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;, ", which further proves that Jesus is not part of GOD Almighty, because GOD Almighty Speaks and Hears whatever He Pleases!
The Bible's New Testament also records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?
I have yet to see a good answer to this one by any polytheist trinitarian.
Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone": ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.
My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's absurdities regarding Mark 10:18 where Jesus said he was not "good".
Show me in the Bible where Jesus said he was not GOD!
I sometimes get asked by trinitarians to show them where Jesus said that he WAS NOT GOD Almighty in the Bible. Ironically, it is like having this scenario:
Q. Show me where John Doe said that he was not the President of the United States! Show me the quote now!!
A. He just said he works as a computer programmer you brainless ! :-)
Jesus said he was not good. He can't possibly say I am your Creator and by the way I am not good. The question itself shows the complete ignorance about what's written in the bible and reveals the total blasphemy and darkness that polytheist trinitarian pagans are living in.
Jesus is not GOD! The GOD Almighty of the Old Testament BOASTS about Himself! He countlessly reminds the Jews about Worshiping Him and only Him because He is the "One who took them out of Egypt", and He's the "One who Saved them from Pharaoh", etc, Not only that, but He also Punishes to death anyone who profanes His Holy and Blessed Name.
Jesus can not be this Holy and Mighty and Arrogant and Absolute GOD Almighty when he, for instance, escaped to Egypt for his life from King Herod! The GOD Almighty's Divine Characteristics in the Old Testament can not in anyway fit Jesus who is not "good" and who runs for his life from a creation of GOD Almighty.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by eniyan(m): 9:32pm On Dec 03, 2007|
God loves you whether you love or hate Him.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by olabowale(m): 12:15pm On Dec 05, 2007|
@Seun: If Muhammad was able to get the savage Arabs, at that time to calm
down and reserve their intimate SinParties till they get to paradise, can you imagine
what good he can do for the rest of the world, in its present decayed state?
How did Muhammad calm down the Ogun State Muslims? Just them remembering
him. If you see any Muslim going out of the bounds set by Muhammad's Islam,
just imagine how awful that fellow would have been if he were a non Muslim?
Terrifying when you think about it. Seun. Accept Islam and be successful. There is
tremendous benefit in it. If you think you are successful now, imagine your success
when its manifolded, spiritually and in worldly matters as well.
By the way, I am not preaching financial abundance ministry, like the Televangelists.
I leave that to the Christians, who are obsessed with money, money and more money!
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by cgift(m): 6:15pm On Dec 06, 2007|
Osama Bin Laden could not have been more dangerous than he is presently under the cloak of Islam. Infact, if he dares leave Islam, i doubt if his prowess will last the next 1 week.
In other words, Islam makes beasts of men who were once sane. Olabowale, you would be more reasonable were you to be a christian obviously.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by Bankole01(m): 6:55pm On Dec 06, 2007|
is this why muslims tend To Molest, be craddle-robbers, besides being homosexuals?
True brother, too true. Most of the mega thieves in Nigeria are muslims, they will coash you how to loot, burn, kill, riots aimlessly and kill women.
|Re: Why I Am Not A Christian Anymore by posi(f): 7:54pm On Dec 11, 2007|
Pls, my bro. Try Islam because. our religion did not ever say you won't be tempted if u ar muslim.Even it is written in the bible that both fourtune and misfourtune is created by God .So my brother you can not do without having faith in God eithier u like it or not .Your soul will still confirm the oneness of God.pls dont be lead astray. Ma assalm
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health