i really want to know because somebody i know has been "teaching " himself programming for the past 5 years going on 6 and we've seen no tangible product
for all this years of starring at the computer.
And he doesnt believe in certification or university education .says when you want to buy "pure water" you don't ask for certificate.
6 years is equivalent to a masters in some fields so i really want to know. is this what others go through.
when it all started we were understanding of his zeal but he still doesnt see that he's going nowhere on his own. he's still talking of needing another 3 more years before anybody should call him a failure. 9 years to learn programming!!!

Learning how to program is a life long process unless you decide to stop.

How long has it taking you to learn English language? Everyday or regularly you come across new words, new style of writing, that sometimes you have to look up in a dictionary. So you continue to learn.

Back to programming. Think about it. if the likes of Gates etc stopped improving on their programming skills, do you think they will be where they are today? Also consider that very frequently, there are new methodologies, algorithms, frameworks, programming languages, updates to existing languages. These new tools, and updates are most likely going to make your work easier. They are aimed at making the time required for development shorter and also make your application better user interface wise. So why dont you go and drive a Volkswagen beetle when you can ride in a ferrari.

Also remember that you cannot learn everything about programming. Languages are too broad. Everyone learns at a different pace. You may belittle him now, who knows if he is so confident in himself that he is going to make a breakthrough in life and be a billionaire?

Programming is his interest. People like football, they watch tv screens all day and what do they get from it? shouting, high blood pressure, and sometimes if they gamble then get and lose money. While this is someone try to understand what he needs to be better at his profession.

I also do not support certifications. I believe if you study well, you can succeed on certified exams. What will you do if you come to work and cant perform? Experience always wins. There are individuals around the world that have not gone to school to learn about IT and are experts in their fields today. It is all about how hard you want to push yourself. Are you that dedicated to learning something new that you want to use professionally by yourself?

Please just don't say anything bad towards him, that is the worst thing you can do. If you cannot see the value added to him, he knows the value he has obtained from all the hours he has spent and willing to spend in front of the screen.

Personally I spend a lot of time in front of the screen, when I was leaving home to school my dad told me, keep your computer only bring it out when you want to do assignment, don't spend too much time with computers. Well, i spent all the time I could in front of a computer. I stopped my MBA to do what I love to do (computers) I have gotten a lot of experience, I have developed very good skills. I am doing pretty well today, Do I regret? No. Do people around me understand why I do what I do? No, but do I know why I do what I do? Yes, do I know my potential? Yes.

He is the only one that knows how far he is willing to push himself. He is the only one that knows what he wants to do. If you are so curious as to why you dont understand him, sit and you can talk to him. If he is a talkative person, you can tell him to explain things you would wish to know. But I am betting that he wont talk much about it because you wont understand. I dont talk about my work and my professional interest with most people because they wont understand. If we have similar background then talking will be easier. But just keep in mind if you ask to talk with him, dont push it unless he is willing to be open with you.

Don't mess around with someone that sits alone or is focused.

@Cactus
Abeg leave story for tortoise. Which kain thing be dat? No vex me with all dat story wey u take defend "Faith without work" o.

@poster
Whoever learns programming for 5 years without 1 single product to show for it will spend a lifetime on his first project.
haba! not even a calculator? Na programming come hard like dat?

In my opinion, he is planning to finish learning programming b4 starting anything tangible and that's a grave mistake. U never finish learning programming. Programming is a journey and not a destination so just tell the guy to go and get a degree instead.

it takes less than a day to learn PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE.
but it takes a lifetime to remain a programmer

like your friend, though i have hnd in comp sci, i did not have any hands-on training in programming.
i have been learning programming by writing programs for 9 years now, and of course THERE ARE RESULTS to show for it.

so, what matters is the INTEREST. it could be soooo frustrating at times

@lojik
Must there be a product?
What are you passionate about?
How dedicated are you doing what you do?

Well, I am expecting an outraged response if there is one. Dismissing the relevance of my question.

If you may be interested, read about this guy.
http://www.kokeytechnology.com/internet-news/russian-mathematician-rejects-1-million-dollar-prize-reward-for-solving-a-hundred-year-old-math-problem/

@Cactus
Yes, there should be result.
Even 5 year university courses give periodic tests and results.
Learning is a preparation stage and there is no end to learning.
The only real sign of knowledge is what u do with what u know. No matter how small, Just start something. The major part of professional programming is learnt from practice^{(And the is what we call experience)}, what is learn't from books and classes before you start the real thing is the theory.

Passion and dedication is not measure by time but evidenced by results my dear cactus. If wanna know my passion and dedication, visit my website and my bank.
I'm a professional software developer with experience and i can tell u that you can start programming under 1 week of training, but u will never stop learning how to write better programs.

Well, I am expecting an outraged response if there is one. Dismissing the relevance of my question.

I can't be outraged. I assumed u shd be matured enuf to disagree without fighting. Haba! U dey find quarrel?

@lojik

Am impressed with your bank roll. May your bank not go bankrupt.

Anyone if he or she chooses can start to write computer programs after 1hr of reading. Don't compare a university degree to an hobbyist who potentially hopes to become professional.

So basically your point is that, if I am learning a new skill and I dont make/produce something out of my newly acquired skill in a certain number of years, that means I am a failure?

Short of words, I rest my case.

@cactus
Skills are different from skills o.

Are you telling me you can spend 6 years to learn football on paper and not go out to the field once? Then u are not planning to become a professional footballer because u won't even know the weight of a boot. Maybe you are planning to become a sports writer and you should go and learn writing.

Same goes for a programmer. I expect that u will be aware that no programming language is static for 9 years without going obsolete. If it does not keep evolving, it will go extinct. So how will you start practicing when a newer version is always released before you finish learning.

Imagine that the guy started learning VB in 2004, by now, VS 2008 and even VS 2010 has been released and Most of what he learnt in VB is no more in use. He has to start his self paced 9 years training again with VB.NET. That's the way he will continue till he dies at his old age without any record of being a programmer.

Hobbyist who potentially hopes to become professional must practice and evaluate himself. Being a pro is not beans.
A word is enough!

Nothing is obsolete. The methods learnt previously are only improved for efficiency.

I first did vb.net 2003 and when 2010 came out I initially wasnt interested in learning it but later got a grasp of it and technically similar in terms of structure, what changed? Methods calls, more compacted, no need for reduced redundancy. Whatever you learnt previously greatly helps in understand what is available at present. You can simply say the system learnt in 2000 is of absolute irrelevance today.

Oh well sha, no wahala. Everyone has his/her own philosophy.

lojik:



Imagine that the guy started learning VB in 2004, by now, VS 2008 and even VS 2010 has been released and Most of what he learnt in VB is no more in use. He has to start his self paced 9 years training again with VB.NET. That's the way he will continue till he dies at his old age without any record of being a programmer.

@lojik, no doubt u have become the person  of your dreams, good for you, but your comment there was too harsh. I agree with you in some cases, like results matters. I'm a self thought programmer ( with the help of Aboho community,  Nairaland, DHTML, Tony, etc - thanks to everyone) , I can write programs in different languages and still learning more, When I started, every1 knows me to be a programmer, but then what have you produced? I have to start creating applications, softwares, writing scripts, etc, Though i'm not perfect but i'm still learning, Undergraduate in Comp Sci though, This has limit my achievement in programming, I have to keep up my CGPA on the high, but still i  write programs everyday cos it my passion, i love it,
@ soultear, sometimes you dont want people to know what you are up to, but let him know it is time for the world to get to know him,
@Cactus, You have my VOTE>>>>>>>>>( Result matters though, it shows you are progressing)

I have not arrived, i have not learnt it all. What i am trying to say is that success is not a destination, it is the quality of your journey. U shouldn't wait till "the end" before you check how you are doing. You can check at every step on the way whether u are on the right track and where u r headed.

I am still a student of programming but that does not mean i won't use what i've learnt until i "completely know PHP".

It is very common to confuse motion with progress. A rocking chair may be in continous motion, but it makes no progress.

I first did vb.net 2003 and when 2010 came out

If we are to go by the principle in question, can we say u are still learning VB.NET and are yet to use it for anything tangible?

The language keeps evolving so if you are interested in using it, you have to learn the new functions. Keeping in mind you can keep doing it the old way and getting similar results.


Only the person that is learning a process knows what he/she wants to use it for. A second party should ideally not pass judgement on what such person is doing

Nice to know that learning programming is not all that a difficult task. My major problem is writing codes (procedures and functions) to power my MS Access forms. Any assistance please to learning the fundamentals of VBA?

lojik:

It is very common to confuse motion with progress. A rocking chair may be in continous motion, but it makes no progress.

I love this. I'm just a programming rookie though (a couple of years experience) with results to show for it (developed cool apps, lectured my own students,, ). When I started programming, I did a lot of things which I believe the person in question must have done too (and must even be doing currently). I believe @poster expected this "programmer" to have made a complete software like Microsoft Office, McAfee Antivirus, CorelDraw etc. If thats what you are looking for from a "one-man-army programmer", you must be joking. The person must have been working on simple projects that may not be known to you. There was time I set out to build a replacement for most simple apps that came with Microsoft Windows then (e.g Photo Viewer, Calculator, Notepad, etc) which I did and were better than what was bundled with Windows XP, but what happened when the improved versions of these programs were released in Windows 7? If I want to still retain my bragging rights (to myself though) that I'm better at simple stand-alone apps than all the heads working for Microsoft Cooperation, I have to go back to my workstation and improve on the apps that I've created (which I did even far before the birth of Win 7, my version of Notepad can process multiple documents concurrently using tabs, has greater flexibility in appearance configuration, greater font support etc and I did not show this to people because nobody will use it especially when they have Microsoft Office installed). That is what kept our "friend" glued to the screen. Its not like he has not done anything. Bend down and look very deeply, you will see the works he has done. Remember that Google Guys said before you can become a true master in any programming language, you must spend atleast 3 years programming with that language. Also, before you can become a professional in anything, you must spend atleast 10000 hours doing that thing.

@SayoMarvel:
why not contribute to notepad+. We need more coders like you to improve our tools not create tools that exist only on your own hardware.

I thought you people have dumped that software. Its nice to know the project is still alive. So who's coodinating the development? Give me the details (like specs, target platform, programming language, job done so far, what u hope to implement, etc).

Programming takes years to master

One cannot finish learning, it's a continuous process and doing side projects will boost your morale to keep going.

acorntree:
Programming takes years to master

for five years or so, one should have been able to show something really really tangible to prove one being a programmer

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