Is it a spiritual gift?, Leadership role? A vocational calling? A professional position? or a personal relationship

Eph 4:12 states that the responsibility of the pastor is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ
Colossians 1:25 also states that the pastor should serve his church by proclaiming the ENTIRE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL
Acts 20:25-28 also states that the pastor should care for the saints.


Do such still exist? views please?

I dey come back this thread.

A pastor is simply a sheperd.

a businessman

The way it is practised in the Nigeria,,its a scam,,,where you have people Pastoring a church like "Run for your Life Ministry" or where they ask you to #200 for Bamutism,,,,,,or where you have to live in poverty and ur pastor live in affluence,,,,

KunleOshob:

A pastor is simply a sheperd.

This is the most amazing response from KunleOshob

i think some people in niga became pastors due to economy hardship and unemployment.right now i am sooo sad to comment further,just want to go to bed.

Obviously, a pastor is a spiritual gift. Ephesians 4v11 says He GAVE some pastors. A pastor is a leadership role. It may be vocational, i dare say it's best if it were vocational. A pastor is a professional position in the sense that it is not an office for amateurs. And it is a personal relationship.
God has given His church 5 people: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. These 5 offices are gifts which may be seen one or more per individual to whom it is given. Again, they are not everybody's office but gifts, and each local church would do well to have these 5 offices available for effective work of the ministry, the perfecting of saints and building the body of Christ.
Just an apostle isn't balanced for the work, or just a prophet, or just a teacher. All 5 offices will bring the right balance. It has been the bane of the general church that most lean on just one or so of the 5 offices. Some churches are filled with prophets, no teacher, no apostle. Another church has a pastor but no evangelist, no teacher. I'm not talking about title, like sunday school teacher, or tagged an apostle because you finished seminary. I'm referring to the gifts God has given His church.

More specifically, let me share on the pastor. It seems to be the most coveted of the 5 offices, seeing He(the pastor) is the official ruler in his resident church and 'doesn't seem to need much of a spiritual gift' compared to the other 4 offices. Everybody wants to be pastor(who no like to be king). You'll easily be nicknamed 'pastor' than other offices, it is a coveted position.
A pastor is a Shepherd, not a sheperd(i wonder what kunle means by that word,sounds like one of his drinks imo). It is the same office as a Bishop. The pastor is head/representative. It is contrary to the opinion that is being passed across unhindered these days on NL. The shepherd is not equal with the sheep, He is their leader. He is also not a board of directors elders.
Right from the beginning of man, God has always made representatives for His people. These representatives are the head, so to speak, for we know that Christ is Head of all, our Tower, Strength, Song, even Life. From Genesis, we see God making man the head of the woman and family even though He is no respecter of persons. God is a God of order, not of confusion. He declares that they are no more two but one, yet the man is the head.

God always looks for a head. It may not be by age or education but He sets a head/representative over His people. Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob were all heads, i dare say pastors, of their people. God's dealing with their race, family etc was through them in some sense.
Moses was head of israel. He had other leaders/pastors around him. He had the 70 elders, he had Aaron, even the tribe of Levi. And among the levite priests, they had chief priests and yet one high priest, the head/pastor.
Israel had judges and kings, heads. And when we come to the new testament, God has not changed. He had disciples but He had a 70. He had a 70 but He chose a 12, and among the 12, He had a 3. Yet in this 3, He made Peter head and gave him charge to strengthen the others and be Shepherd to feed His sheep. And through church history, there have been pastors/bishops. Like i've said, it's simply the head over a group of believers.
Like history tells us Peter was not forever in jerusalem. There was a time he was pastor in rome and James was pastor in jerusalem. There was a time Paul spent long time in iconium, and about 3 years with the ephesians. Titus and Timothy were also pastors at one time or the other.

A bishop/pastor's work is to stay with a particular congregation and nurture them, feed them with God's Word and protect them. 1Timothy 1v3. Timothy was to pastor ephesus and supervise things there. So we may glean from here that a pastor can be under a senior as Timothy was junior to Paul. Paul was a father/shepherd/pastor to some. So also was John the beloved. They were not all equal in that sense that many put it. There was leadership, fathering, mentoring, shepherding, pastoring.
1Timothy 3 and Titus 1 show us that there are requirements to be met before becoming a pastor. It's not everybody's office. Some people think Jesus is the only pastor of christians, we are all the same. No, He has given us pastors. Pastors set in order, they ordain, they abide.
A pastor may possess other gifts, like he may also be a teacher, or a prophet etc. Jesus recognises pastors. In Revelation, Christ wrote to the churches and He addressed their leader. Each church had a representative/pastor/angel.

Finally, while a church or a group of believers may have 'committee/elders' or even pastorS, there's nothing scripturally wrong with having a(1) pastor. The singers might have their head, he is their pastor. A cell group might have their cell head/leader. He's their pastor or she's their pastor. It's simply a leader. It's a relationship that is simple and blessed. It's rather unfortunate that we bring in our english and our greek and try to make mountains out of molehills, castigating leadership. God's injunction in the new testament is still, "Let everything be done decently and in order".

Pastors must have a servant heart. They must not come accross as more spiritual than others. Why?

Remember Diotrephes in 3 John 1:9-10 who loved to be first. He refused to accept travelling teachers or allow them to recieve help. Some pastors fall into this trap. Glamour seekers.

Christians, beware of Pastors who like to "LORD IT OVER OTHERS" Those who demand the best Hotel in the land. The jet setters. Those who are in it for what they get out of it. God will oppose such proud pastors and favor the humble ones.

We also have the get rich quickly ones. The bibles clearly states that they are the corrupt ones who have turned their back on the truth. To them, a show of godliness is just a way to become wealthy. But 1 Tim 6:6 states " Yes true godliness with contentment is itself great weath. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we cannot take anything with us when we leave it. The bible even furthers says that people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desire that plunge them into ruin and destruction.
Remember MKO, with all the wealth he had, ONE KOBO did not follow him to his grave.

As christian we must read the word of God consistently. Then we know the truth and are equipped to discern phony pastors whenever/ wherever they show up on our doorsteps. That is why my number one pastor is Christ, the truth , the way and  the  life

@image123:

I thought what my Bible says is that Christ was speaking to the "ANGEL"s of the seven churches? What version of the Bible are you using? and how do you turn "Angel" to pastor/representative/angel? Is Angel Micheal of the Hosts of Heaven a "pastor"?

nuclearboy:

@image123:

I thought what my Bible says is that Christ was speaking to the "ANGEL"s of the seven churches? What version of the Bible are you using? and how do you turn "Angel" to pastor/representative/angel? Is Angel Micheal of the Hosts of Heaven a "pastor"?

Angel simply means ,minister or messenger. And not flying saucer

Galatians 4:14
14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God,[ even] as Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:14
14 Even though my illness was difficult for you, you didn't despise or reject me. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were God's messenger or Christ Jesus himself.

I AM AN ANGEL!

@Laodicea + Sardis Joagbaje:

Interesting that its always you that jumps in without thinking.

Since you have eisegised the above for us, please show from scripture that there were just those seven churches AS PHYSICAL churches rather than models of the seven types of churches?

What I mean is simple - each of the seven "churches" had a description - Ephesus was the "church" that forsook her first love. Smyrna was the one that had "afflictions and poverty, yet was rich", etc etc etc. This shows they are Models for the seven types of churches that will exist through the ages. Or okay, lets count. We know there were churches in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesia, Philippia, Colosse, Thessalonica, Philemon and of course, there was the Hebrew church. Were those the only churches? BTW, there are 9 (NINE) of those I just listed. And there were actually more! Yet only 7 in revelations.

Now, I know you never accept error so you will find a lie somewhere between Jesus wrote only to 7 physical churches to "revelation knowledge showed you something special" about the matter. Truth is that the 7 churches of Revelation are simply models for the ages. Since they were not physical churches, they could not have a physical pastor, ergo those angels were not "pastors".

Of course, and as pointed out above, you fall somewhere between Laodicea and Sardis. I would say Laodicea but know a few in you are still alive in Christ.

Of course, the truth means not much to you. All that matters is turning pastor chris to God and yourself to "AN ANGEL". Reminds me of "I will be like the Most High".

Sensua +carnal minded nuclearboy

you should adress your matter to image123.

Image 123

This is a great writeup. But I have issues with some of the posts.

Image123:

More specifically, let me share on the pastor. It seems to be the most coveted of the 5 offices, seeing He(the pastor) is the official ruler in his resident church and 'doesn't seem to need much of a spiritual gift' compared to the other 4 offices. Everybody wants to be pastor[b](who no like to be king).[/b] You'll easily be nicknamed 'pastor' than other offices, it is a coveted position.

I don't agree with your use of language here, it is derogatory to the office of a pastor. People don't covet Pastor's office. It is a calling and responsibility, not in the sense of lording it over Gods people. It is not a Childs play.

Hebrews 5:4
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, .

.

Image123:
.
  God has given His church 5 people: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. These 5 offices are gifts which may be seen one or more per individual to whom it is given. Again, they are not everybody's office but gifts, and each local church would do well to have these 5 offices available for effective work of the ministry, the perfecting of saints and building the body of Christ.
Just an apostle isn't balanced for the work, or just a prophet, or just a teacher. All 5 offices will bring the right balance. It has been the bane of the general church that most lean on just one or so of the 5 offices. Some churches are filled with prophets, no teacher, no apostle. Another church has a pastor but no evangelist, no teacher. I'm not talking about title, like sunday school teacher, or tagged an apostle because you finished seminary. I'm referring to the gifts God has given His church.

The 5 fold ministry are not necessarily needed in a local church. They are gifts to the body of christ and not a local church. Ofcourse I agree with you that a pastor is for a local church. But an apostle? . An apostle could be the head of a ministry, but he doesn't need more apostle in the local branches under him but pastors.
Maybe You throw more light on that.

@Joagbaje:

Image123 did NOT tell a lie. What he did was misapply to this particular situation and seeing what I wrote, he would most likely have just thought "oh okay, this is a totally spiritual issue so ANGEL cannot mean PASTOR" in THIS case.

It is YOU that lied because you came after the fact, implied the churches are physical (if they have physical heads) and then worsened issues saying yourself are an "angel". [size=4pt]dem know you for Heaven?[/size]

Brethen,

Titus 3:9 has warned us not to indulge in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about the Word of God. This normally leads to a quarrelsome and divisive atmosphere which does not build up anyone. complete waste of time.
We must avoid Anti-intellectualism and Super-spiritualism. Avoid being "defensive" in our defense. It is tragic when Christians think that it constitutes the epitome of Christian belief. Christianity is not essentially a belief-system to be defended, but a Life to be lived.

Now to the main topic.

1 Peter 5:1-2 briefly stated the duties of a pastor are; (1) Shepherd the flock (2)Exercise oversight over the flock

The sheep (church members) depend upon the shephed(Pastor) to lead them to nourishing pasture. What the pasture is to the sheep is the word of God. It should be like food which must be eaten and assimilated for physical health and growth. In regards to the word of God will be for spiritual growth. The main responsibility of the pastor to make sure that the church members are spiritually feed at all times.This means that he must dedicate himself to discipline study and praryer. He must earnestly seek to know the mind of God to enable him to effectively minister the word of God that is best for their daily need. He must not limit himself to a few topics that he enjoys speaking about or what his sheep want to hear.He must bring to them the whole counsel of God , witholding nothing that is profitable. He must be prepared to convey the largest possible amount of truth in order that the brethren may have their souls fed.

Supervision or overseeing the flock involves a close watch over individual souls. The elder is not to presumptuously intrude into personal matters, but as circumstances require, he is to warn, encourage, advise, comfort, rebuke, exhort, instruct and correct. This of course means that there will be occasions when judicious inquiry must be made. The appropriate time for such inquiry to be made would be during regularly scheduled pastoral visits, or when it is evident that a problem exists that must be dealt with. Such inquiry has its basis in a heart of genuine compassionate concern. A true shepherd is concerned about the eternal welfare of those souls which have been entrusted to his care.

Pastoring as a gift

In reality, not all people in the position of "pastor" have the gift of pastor.Some have the gift of leadership, evangelism,administration, teaching or prophesy.The dilemma for these "pastors" is that by gifting they do not have the ability to fulfill the complete ministry description of a shepherd yet they are called "pastors." With that title often comes the expectation of many within the body that this person do the full work of a shepherd.

Sometimes the total gift mix of the person in the position of pastor will enable them to do some of the shepherding work but no one person has all the spiritual gifts. Consequently, if the church is not careful to put others in place to help accomplish the full-orbed work involved in shepherding ministry, the church will tend to be out of balance, fashioning itself according to the gifting of one person, the one they call "pastor." The effects soon become evidenced in the condition of the sheep:

1. Some move on to greener pastures. The sheep becomes anxious. Sets up their own church with little or no shepherding.
2. When the church has reached its desired growth in quantity, some of the sheep feel abandoned.
3 Some Pastor uses the confidential knowledge they have about some of their sheep as a blackmail tool. Making the sheep become unsecure and afraid.
4 Social and political issues are given more priority than spiritual ones making the sheep less fed and hungry.

PROPOSED SOLUTION

1. Free up the elders of the church to do what they are biblically called to do. To shepherd, not to merely administrate the affairs of the chruch.
as confirmed in 1 peter 5:1-3; Acts 20:28
2. Seek out those withing the body who have the gift of pastor to be strategically and purposefully involved in shepherding members of the body.
3. Seek out those with complimentary gifts to come along side of the person in the position of "pastor" who does not have the gift of pastor to care for the sheep in ways that person will tend to neglect.
4. Enable those within the body who have the gift of pastor to step out of their gifting and do the work of shepherding even if it is not comfortable for them.

CONCLUSION

Regardless of gifting, the "pastor" needs to keep informed about the condition of the flock to gauge what needs to be done to more effectively and more completely shepherd the flock. Pastors are also sheep, members of the body, with responsibilities different from the rest of the sheep. They are not the head of the body.

Pastors must be very careful of using phrases like "my church." It is not their church. The sheep are not their flock. All belongs to the Chief Shepherd. Pastors and elders are his assistants. Only one person is the head of the church which is our Lord Jesus Christ. The church of Corinth was called worldly because of such attitude 1 Corin 3:1-11

Matthew 20:25-28
"You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many"


This does not mean the church is devoid of organization. Nor does it mean that the church shouldn't have people with the responsibility of leading. Effective functioning requires knowing who is responsible for the accomplishment of various tasks. People need to be held accountable for doing their part. Organization and leaders, however, are there to serve and not to control. Power corrupts. Serving brings life.

@Nuclearboy,

The churches refered to were physical churches and not spiritual. If you think otherwise , proove it.

The churches in revelations were spiritual churches; and they were used to describe the attributes of the church(everywhere).
The seven churches were a description of what entails in the existing church(which is one body) and not a description of different physical churches.

The attributes of the seven total the attributes of the one church in existence.

@yommyuk:

Its not that I like this "in-fighting" but sincerely, this twisting and torture of scripture is too much to condone. Outsiders are watching and if we allow this rubbish to continue, it impacts on the name and idea of Christianity.

@Joagbaje:

I already stated why I said they were spiritual. I named 9 churches so why were there only 7 addressed in Revelation and why was it their state (spiritual condition) that was the differing factor in the issue. Present your own case for the contrary rather than telling me to repeat myself.

@nuclearboy, I feel u bro
For me as long as you believe christ is Lord, that will do. Intrepretations and application of that foundation is up to the individual. The way the Holy Spirit reveals the Word of God to us may vary sometimes depending on our exposure, understanding and inner consciousness.

However my beef is with those unbelievers who try to invade our territory. I will soon send them packing

nuclearboy:

@image123:

I thought what my Bible says is that Christ was speaking to the "ANGEL"s of the seven churches? What version of the Bible are you using? and how do you turn "Angel" to pastor/representative/angel? Is Angel Micheal of the Hosts of Heaven a "pastor"?

I'm not getting into any debate/long talk on Revelation on this thread, you may start a thread for such. The point that is been brought out is that one angel can be over a church. Like i've earlier said, a church may have a 'committee', but there's nothing wrong with it having just one leader/representative.

Joagbaje:

Image 123

This is a great writeup. But I have issues with some of the posts.

I don't agree with your use of language here, it is derogatory to the office of a pastor. People don't covet Pastor's office. It is a calling and responsibility, not in the sense of lording it over Gods people. It is not a Childs play.

Hebrews 5:4
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, .

.
The 5 fold ministry are not necessarily needed in a local church. They are gifts to the body of christ and not a local church. Ofcourse I agree with you that a pastor is for a local church. But an apostle? . An apostle could be the head of a ministry, but he doesn't need more apostle in the local branches under him but pastors.
Maybe You throw more light on that.

I didn't say people should covet the office of a pastor, i was just making an observation and i explained it. I didn't say it was right or wrong to covet the office.
When i mean local church above, i'm having in mind what is popularly called 'denomination' today.

nuclearboy:




@Joagbaje:

I already stated why I said they were spiritual. I named 9 churches so why were there only 7 addressed in Revelation and why was it their state (spiritual condition) that was the differing factor in the issue. Present your own case for the contrary rather than telling me to repeat myself.

The 7churches were spiritual not physical? wetin pesin no go hear for internet. John/Jesus was writing to the 7churches in Asia, and just like every other scripture, it is profitable for all to benefit. You and all this your writing to pharisee, to levites, to priests, to jews etc. The Word of God is for us all. BTW, Philemon is a person not a church, that's general b.k. Plus those other churches aren't in Asia. No more Revelation talk from me on this thread. Open another if you please.

Image123:

The 7churches were spiritual not physical? wetin pesin no go hear for internet. John/Jesus was writing to the 7churches in Asia, and just like every other scripture, it is profitable for all to benefit. You and all this your writing to pharisee, to levites, to priests, to jews etc. The Word of God is for us all. [size=13pt]BTW, Philemon is a person not a church[/size], that's general b.k. Plus those other churches aren't in Asia. No more Revelation talk from me on this thread. Open another if you please.

Philemon verse 2: "To Apphia our sister, to Archippus our fellow soldier [size=13pt]and to the church that meets in your home:[/size]"

Most people skim past that, Bro. But there was a church at Philemon's home

^^
Ok o! I do agree. It's just that GENERALLY, it's seen as addressing an individual TO PHILEMON, also verses 7, 17, 20 maybe. Or just like we generally talk of the epistles of Paul, though he actually wrote with Timothy, Silas and co. But like i'll always say, it's God's Word to us ALL. Good night bro.