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Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by warrior01: 11:05pm On Sep 14, 2010
I believe the likes of the OP is the problem we have in Nigeria. They never believe in themselves, It is always greener at the other side. If I may ask 'are you not a Nigerian? What have you done to contribute your quota to the development of the country? Do you think running away to another man's country and being an arm chair critic will ever solve the problem? If I may even ask you 'what have you invented on your own to distinguish you from everyone else or are you not a human being?

Sincerely, Op, your mentality sucks because you would rather look for whom to blame rather than taking on the problem and solving it.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Gamine(f): 11:06pm On Sep 14, 2010
I think the question is of what benefit is this 'Education' (Wherever you get it) to Nigeria.
Like they say, the greatest asset of a nation is its manpower.

It doesn't matter how much ground Nigerians are breaking outside Nigeria,
The question is How does this feed back into the nation?

So far people have mentioned EVERYTHING that is wrong with our Educational system
and it is the truth. Our system doesn't allow for proper thinking and an actual education.
The environment is so anti-change it is ridiculous. still, this shouldn't be the begining and end of us.

The mini-research i had to do recently showed that Nigerians, have the same brain and capacity
to Innovate, the same natural aptitude for creativity. But what is going wrong?

As a people in Nigeria, we need to wake up, and stop the 'Follow' 'Follow' mentality
We are the biggest flock of sheep ever! Our greed is eating us deep.
Money!!, Money!!The Nigerian's religion
Our ancestors were ingenious, what is stopping us??

kalokalo:

I have noticed that Nigerians never ever want to be responsible for anything!!! Virtually every problem in this country is blamed on the government.  It has always baffled me why so called "educated people" cannot see our problems what what they really are: opportunities seeking solutions in the form of products or services. Nothing stops the average Nigerian to use his brain to innovate. I'm not surprised that some people are blaming the government for our failure to innovate!

We would keep pounding yam the same way until Oyibo man made pounding machine for us
We would keep fishing the same way until,
We would keep farming the same way using old backbreaking labor techniques until,
We would keep shelling egusi seeds the same way with our bare hands until,

All an unemployed youth/graduate needed to do is put his brain to work to create an egusi shelling machine for example and he would be a millionaire selling his product and create jobs That is how innovations are done in other places. But no, he is on the street looking for a bank job and blaming the government for his personal mental unproductiveness.

We never strive to make our lives better, or easier or more convenient by using our brains. It has nothing to do with education. Most of the world's inventions were invented in their day by men who comparatively are not as educated as the average Nigerian of today. We need thinkers not [b]intellectual sandbags parading themselves as educated.[/b]

Ciao

Gbam.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Kobojunkie: 11:08pm On Sep 14, 2010
Gamine:

I think the question is of what benefit is this 'Education' (Wherever you get it) to Nigeria.
Like they say, the greatest asset of a nation is its manpower.

[size=14pt] It doesn't matter how much ground Nigerians are breaking outside Nigeria[/size] ,
The question is [size=14pt]Howdoes this feed back into the nation?[/size]



So far people have mentioned EVERYTHING that is wrong with our Educational system
and it is the truth. Our system doesn't allow for proper thinking and an actual education.
The environment is so anti-change it is ridiculous. still, this shouldn't be the begining and end of us.


The mini-research i had to do recently showed that Nigerians, have the same brain and capacity
to Innovate, the same natural aptitude for creativity. But what is going wrong?

[b]As a people in Nigeria, we need to wake up, and stop the 'Follow' 'Follow' mentality
We are the biggest flock of sheep ever! Our greed is eating us deep.
Money!!, Money!!The Nigerian's religion[/b]Our ancestors were ingenious, what is stopping us??

Gbam.

FINITO!!!
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by warrior01: 11:22pm On Sep 14, 2010
I think the question is of what benefit is this 'Education' (Wherever you get it) to Nigeria.
Like they say, the greatest asset of a nation is its manpower.

It doesn't matter how much ground Nigerians are breaking outside Nigeria,
The question is How does this feed back into the nation?

So far people have mentioned EVERYTHING that is wrong with our Educational system
and it is the truth. Our system doesn't allow for proper thinking and an actual education.
The environment is so anti-change it is ridiculous. still, this shouldn't be the begining and end of us.

The mini-research i had to do recently showed that Nigerians, have the same brain and capacity
to Innovate, the same natural aptitude for creativity. But what is going wrong?

As a people in Nigeria, we need to wake up, and stop the 'Follow' 'Follow' mentality
We are the biggest flock of sheep ever! Our greed is eating us deep.
Money!!, Money!!The Nigerian's religion
Our ancestors were ingenious, what is stopping us??

Thanks, really tired of all this Naija bashing thread as if we've even made use of the 'little education ' we had.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by davidif: 12:16am On Sep 15, 2010
warrior01:

Thanks, really tired of all this Naija bashing thread as if we've even made use of the 'little education ' we had.

WOW! SO WE SHOULD SIT BACK AND CLAP HANDS FOR OURSELVES AND PAT OURSELVES ON THE BACK FOR A JOB WELL DONE ABI? When i see a country like Israel with only 6 million people and hardly anything else become so developed and lead most of the world in science and technology and i see our own Nigerians with all the schooling and i am asking myself the question IN WHAT WAY HAS EDUCATION CONTRIBUTED TO OUR SOCIETY? Now everybody is making me out to be the bad guy. Na wa o, you people are real enemies of progress. The aforementioned Israeli's realized that there small population was a huge disadvantage to them so therefore they decided to get the very best out of every citizen in there country and this meant spending HEAVILY on education especially in the field of scientific research (hence the ridiculous number of Nobel Prize winners) and that's the reason why they are developed.

Education is CRUCIAL to development in any country but yet Nigeria with all the "education" we've had we are still an under-developed country which makes me ask the question, of what use is education to most Nigerians? where are Nigeria's Broadcom's, Genentech's, Pfizer's and co.? we have none. This companies would not exist without advances in sciences from academia. If an educational system cannot develop the country, then of what use is it?. This are valid questions that we should ask ourselves, yet you folks are all up in arms that i am anti-Nigerian. Arrant nonsense.

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Gamine(f): 12:27am On Sep 15, 2010
[center]"Educated" to Feel Inferior:
"Will Africa ever Catch Up?"[/center]


by Bedford Nwabueze Umez, Ph.D.*, www.africamasterweb.com

Introduction

After reading my latest book, "Nigeria: Real Problems, Real Solutions," Dr. Nnanna Ukegbu, one of the most learned, enlightened and illustrious Nigerian thinkers, invited me for a talk (August 9, 2002) on a serious issue of common concern, namely, the apparent lack of progress in Nigeria and several African countries. Dr. Ukegbu, who is now completing a very powerful, thought-provoking book on African development, had this question to ask me: "Will African ever catch up?" After a brief pause, I answered him, "Yes, if and only if the African mind is liberated."

In this paper, I will briefly explain the relationship between development and liberated mind. Specifically, I will explain (a) how most of us, the Africans, were "educated" to feel inferior, (b) the terrible consequences of inferiority complex, i.e., low self-esteem, in Africa, especially in Nigeria, and (c) then present the ONLY powerful solution to revert this inferiority complex so that Africa can meaningfully grow and develop.

Although a perfect representation of African countries cannot be made using one country, I decided to focus on Nigeria to make my point. Nigeria is, in many aspects, a typical African country. It suffered slavery; it was subjected to colonial rule; it achieved political independence (1960) around the time so many African countries did; it is faced with the task of welding into a nation a variety of differing people. Besides, Nigeria is, by population, the largest African country.

"Educated" to Feel Inferior: How?

It was never easy for me learning in Nigeria. My parents, who never attended any school due to poverty, could neither read nor write. I lost my father at the age of three. To make the matters worse, those I looked up to, namely, my mentors, educators, and leaders were busy teaching me and other youths, probably inadvertently, to feel inferior and remain inferior. Essentially, I was taught, just as many youths in Nigeria are being taught today, to feel inferior and develop low self-esteem. Here are few examples.

I was thoughtlessly taught (and children are still being thoughtlessly taught today), that "oyibo bu ndi muo," (white men are naturally spirits)," "oyibo bu agbara," (white men are wizards by nature), and "America ilu oba" (which suggests that white man's country is naturally the land of kings). Similar phrases such as "dan bature," (which implies that white men are by nature civilized), and "or buter" (which symbolizes the natural lead of white men) are very common all over Nigeria.

I was thoughtlessly taught (as children are still being thoughtlessly taught today) that almost anything "black" is inherently evil. In fact, to our "educators," it is perfectly okay to use the word, "black" (the ascribed name to people with African decent), to describe evil. In accordance with this teaching, a bad person is the "black sheep of the family," and should be "black listed." In accordance with this teaching, illegal market is "black market" (as if only black people do business in such market). In according with this teaching, Satan (no one has ever seen) is "black" in color. In fact, to our "educated" teachers, frequent use of "black" to describe evil demonstrates a mastery of the "Queen's English," deserving an "A" in English essay composition. What an education! It is a pity!

Indeed, Nigerian African children and the general public are being thought, directly or indirectly, self-hatred and how to develop a sense of low self-esteem. Without question, there are deadly consequences resulting from this kind of miseducation, and to them, I now turn.

"Educated" to Feel Inferior: The Grave Consequences

We often hear that "the mind is a terrible thing to waste." I must add that the mind is a terrible thing to pollute. The minds of so many African children and that of the general public have been grossly polluted and destroyed by a powerful force largely unseen by unclothed eyes. That powerful force is inferiority complex (also called "mental slavery"wink. Here is a brief illustration of the destruction caused by inferiority complex/lack of self-confidence in Africa and among Africans:

Let us present an African medical doctor and a non-African medical doctor to a sick African and ask him to choose the doctor to treat him. You are right, most likely he will choose the nonAfrican doctor. Why? Because he has been miseducated to believe that by nature white men are "ndi muo," "dan bature," and "agbara."

Invite an African to two meetings - one called by Africans and the other summoned by non-Africans. You are right again, that African, all things being equal, will attend the meeting called by non-Africans on time and attend the one summoned by his fellow Africans anytime he wants. Why? He dare not offend "ndi muo" by attending his meeting late. Notice that this "selective punctuality" on the part of so many Africans, particularly Nigerians, is what passive thinkers call "African time" (or "colored people time," in American context). To us at LAM, Liberating African Mind [www.LiberateAfrica.org], there is nothing like "African time." "African time is nothing other than "selective punctuality" ROOTED in inferiority complex.

By comparing the leadership styles of African leaders and non-African leaders, one also observes another handiwork of inferiority complex/lack of self-confidence. Specifically, one notices that while non-African leaders wisely refuse to invest their countries' money and resources in Africa, by practicing "charity begins at home," most African leaders are very proud to invest African money and resources in non-African countries. Why? In their miseducated minds, Africa is "unsafe heaven," while "America ilu oba" - the safe heaven. What a lack of self-confidence! What a leadership! It is a pity!

The bottom line is that a polluted African mind accepts that Africans are, by nature, normal human beings, while nonAfricans are "ndi muo." A polluted African mind believes that nonAfricans are "divinely" chosen to live in "ilu oba," the "safe heavens," while Africans are "divinely" relegated to "unsafe heavens." A polluted African mind does not know that "ndi muo," "agbara," "dan bature," and "ilu oba" are products of tireless research engineered by true compatriot leaders and elite. In fact, a polluted African mind does not know that George Washington, the first President of the US, did not have, for instance, Space Exploration Program. Nigerians, for instance, must know that the reason for lack of so many "ndi muo," "agbara" and "ilu oba," in Nigeria is that so many Nigerian leaders rob their own people only to deposit the loot in "ilu oba." As such, the money that could have been used to produce "ndi muo," "dan bature," "or buter," "agbara" and "ilu oba" in Nigeria is senselessly siphoned out of Nigeria.

African children have been repeatedly told lies, and the liars never, for one day, reflected upon the horrible consequences of their lies. They never realize that if a lie were told repeatedly, sooner or later some people would start believing it to be true. Just as a determined and concerted effort to tell a child that he is silly is likely to get that child thinking and acting silly, "educating" African children to develop low self-esteem and feel inferior has produced so many Africans who have, consciously or unconsciously, accepted that they are ordinary humans while nonAfricans are "ndi muo," "agbara," and "dan bature," divinely planted in "ilu oba."

The Solution: The Right Education

Active thinkers know that pollution of African mind, i.e., miseducating Africans to develop a sense of low self-esteem, has produced and continues to produce terrible consequences in Africa and among Africans. It is not normal for people to turn against themselves; it is not normal for leaders and elite to turn against their own people. Now is the time for African leaders and elite to start asking WHY things are the way they are in Africa instead of telling everyone HOW terrible things are. By asking WHY, solutions will naturally emerge. For instance, questions similar to those below will help move Nigeria forward:

Is there a relationship between research and "ndi muo?" Is there a relationship between research and "agbara?" Is there a relationship between research and "dan bature?" Is there a relationship between research and "ilu oba?" Is there a relationship between the legacies of slave trade and colonialism (i.e., slave and colonial mentalities) and the robbery of Nigeria by a substantial number of its leaders only to deposit the loot abroad? Is there a relationship between the robbery of Nigeria by most of its leaders only to invest the loot abroad and high unemployment rate in Nigeria? Is there a relationship between high unemployment rate in Nigeria and mass exodus of Nigerians to foreign countries? Is there a relationship between investing Nigerian money abroad and growth in negative developments in Nigeria, e.g., corruption, mortality rate, "419," armed robbery?

My fellow Africans, PRACTICAL answers to serious questions like those above will definitely produce "ndi muo," "dan bature," and "agbara" in Africa; in fact, they will produce AGAIN the class of African "ndi muo," "dan bature," and "agbara" who built the first known skyscrapers - the pyramids, and developed the first means of written communications, the hieroglyphic writings, long before the slave trade and colonialism. Nigerian children, for instance, cannot become "ndi muo" and "agbara" by miracle if their leaders continue to neglect education. In fact, "agbara," "ndi muo" and "ilu oba," will not emerge in Nigeria by miracle when teachers are being starved, libraries empty, research thoughtlessly abandoned, and universities senselessly shutdown for several months each year due to strikes. [Note: I have appealed, and will continue to appeal, to Nigerian government to summon, without further delay, series of National Economic Summits to discuss the terrible consequences of looting Nigerian treasury and investing the loot abroad, and start, on a collective level, to invest Nigerian money in Nigeria as "ndi muo" leaders and elite are doing in their own countries.]

Conclusion

African youths must be told the truth, and that truth is that what makes white men "ndi muo," "agbara," and "dan bature," is nothing other than tireless research, and with massive investment of African money in Africa by African leaders and elite, Africa will definitely produce "ndi muo" and "agbara" in large quantity as it once produced long before slavery and colonialism. Furthermore, African leaders and educators must stop using "black" as a symbol for evil and start teaching their children that black is beautiful just as any color.

All told, "Africa will can catch up" if and when African mind is liberated, for a liberated mind is a thinking mind that has the foresight to produce "ndi muo," "dan bature," "or buter,' and "agbara," and make his country "ilu oba."
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Obiagu1(m): 12:38am On Sep 15, 2010
[size=16pt]419[/size]
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by DisGuy: 2:27am On Sep 15, 2010
Gamine:

I think the question is of what benefit is this 'Education' (Wherever you get it) to Nigeria.
Like they say, the greatest asset of a nation is its manpower.

It doesn't matter how much ground Nigerians are breaking outside Nigeria,
The question is How does this feed back into the nation?

So far people have mentioned EVERYTHING that is wrong with our Educational system
and it is the truth. Our system doesn't allow for proper thinking and an actual education.
The environment is so anti-change it is ridiculous. still, this shouldn't be the begining and end of us.

The mini-research i had to do recently showed that Nigerians, have the same brain and capacity
to Innovate, the same natural aptitude for creativity. But what is going wrong?

As a people in Nigeria, we need to wake up, and stop the 'Follow' 'Follow' mentality
We are the biggest flock of sheep ever! Our greed is eating us deep.
Money!!, Money!!The Nigerian's religion
Our ancestors were ingenious, what is stopping us??

Gbam.

Gidi GBAM GBAM!!!
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by DisGuy: 2:29am On Sep 15, 2010
Aigbofa:


These folks are Nigerians and I believe there are many more you've never heard of.

http://www.canadianimmigrant.ca/immigrantstories/health/article/7421

Thanks for the link wink
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by tpiah: 3:30am On Sep 15, 2010
i am talking about Nobel Prizes in the sciences not useless categories like Peace and Literature.

well, with attitudes of oversabi like this, how can nigeria develop?
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by PhysicsQED(m): 6:34am On Sep 15, 2010
davidif:

WOW! SO WE SHOULD SIT BACK AND CLAP HANDS FOR OURSELVES AND PAT OURSELVES ON THE BACK FOR A JOB WELL DONE ABI? When i see a country like Israel with only 6 million people and hardly anything else become so developed and lead most of the world in science and technology and i see our own Nigerians with all the schooling and i am asking myself the question IN WHAT WAY HAS EDUCATION CONTRIBUTED TO OUR SOCIETY? Now everybody is making me out to be the bad guy. Na wa o, you people are real enemies of progress. The aforementioned Israeli's realized that there small population was a huge disadvantage to them so therefore they decided to get the very best out of every citizen in there country and this meant spending HEAVILY on education especially in the field of scientific research (hence the ridiculous number of Nobel Prize winners) and that's the reason why they are developed.

Education is CRUCIAL to development in any country but yet Nigeria with all the "education" we've had we are still an under-developed country which makes me ask the question, of what use is education to most Nigerians? where are Nigeria's Broadcom's, Genentech's, Pfizer's and co.? we have none. This companies would not exist without advances in sciences from academia. If an educational system cannot develop the country, then of what use is it?. This are valid questions that we should ask ourselves, yet you folks are all up in arms that i am anti-Nigerian. Arrant nonsense.

Curiously, I actually agree with you against some other people in this thread about the greater worth of the science prizes, and of achieving at least a level of scientific research and achievement nearing India's or Israel's as compared to being comfortable with only good to occasionally great literary achievements. However, I think you are not as familiar with the other posters in here about the growing trend of Nigerians, especially those abroad, going into high-level science academia and doing exactly the kind of research which you claim we should have been doing and which lead to prestigious science prizes. When the quality of one's earlier education is superb and challenging, rather than pedestrian and routine, and one is in a society that respects and appreciates science, one will be subtly or explicitly influenced to go down the route of research in physics, mathematics, theoretical biology, biochemistry, physical chemistry, engineering, etc rather than going after money, as is often done in Nigeria. What this shows is that given the right environment, Nigerians also can do great things. Essentially the reason why the few scientists we can claim as having any significant achievements pale in number with other countries is the same reason why we lag behind in infrastructure, employment, etc- the people (you might have thought I was going to say the government) are too complacent and have allowed themselves to develop a mind state of just trying to survive rather than to achieve. Nevertheless, you might still be criticizing too early.

But if it might ease your mental anguish even slightly I'll list a few individuals that might make you realize that we can achieve much more when the circumstances are right:

Alexander Obiefoka Enukora Animalu -MIT and later University of Nigeria (very highly cited solid state physicist)
Winston Soboyejo -Princeton (highly published mechanical engineer)
Ilesanmi Adesida -University of Illinois (highly published and highly cited electrical engineer and now Dean of that engineering college)
Akintunde Ibitayo Akinwande - MIT (highly published and highly cited electrical engineer)
James Ezeilo (highly cited and published mathematician)
Olufemi Olowolafe- University of Delaware (highly published and highly cited computer scientist)
Olufunmilayo I. Olopade- University of Chicago (very highly cited oncologist)
Ofodike Ezekoye- University of Texas (highly published mechanical engineer)
Kunle Olukotun- Stanford (very highly cited electrical engineer)
Charles Ejike Chidume- International Center for Theoretical Physics (highly cited mathematician)
Ethelbert Chukwu- North Carolina State University (highly published mathematician)
Olaniyi Kehinde (deceased)- highly cited doctor, researched skin grafting
Abraham Atta Ogwu- Kigali Institute of Science and Technology (highly published materials engineer)
Adedeji Badiru- University of Tennessee (industrial engineer, head of the Department of Industrial & Information Engineering at the University of Tennessee)
Samuel Okoye (deceased)- astrophysicist who worked with Nobel laureate Anthony Hewish in the discovery of pulsars
George Okikiolu (highly published mathematician)
Joe Ordia- highly cited neurosurgeon
Ayodele Awojobi (deceased)- mechanical engineer, author of an important paper on mechanical vibrations
Sunday Iyahen- mathematician, author of an important paper on topological spaces

up-and-coming:

J.O. Dabiri- California Institute of Technology
Deji Akinwande- University of Texas


I have of course left off a LOT (maybe hundreds or maybe a few thousand) of published doctors, because what counts more in medicine is that one cure or innovation, not highly cited studies, studies of correlations, highly cited conjectures, interesting experimental results that don't lead to discoveries/cures etc,  and, with few exceptions, many Nigerian doctors seem to go into it more for the money than anything else.

entrepeneurs:

Nosa Omoigui (Nervana Inc.)
Kunle Olukotun (already mentioned, but Sun Microsystems bought his company, Afara websystems which is worth mentioning)



There are of course many more Nigerian scientists and professors than this with "mid-level" amounts of achievements, journal publications, citations, etc, I only bothered about the standouts though.

But over and above all this, the most important question, is what are YOU doing to make education worthwhile to Nigerians? What are your current, completed, or on-going, achievements? I hope you know that there is not an option of quitting higher education in favor of technician jobs and purely practical jobs or unskilled labor jobs, not in this 21st century race. If we all believed this I can promise you that decades from now, China, India, Europe, and others will own your world and run your children's lives, much more than they already indirectly affect your life right now.

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by davidif: 6:06pm On Sep 15, 2010
We would keep pounding yam the same way until Oyibo man made pounding machine for us
We would keep fishing the same way until,
We would keep farming the same way using old backbreaking labor techniques until,
We would keep shelling egusi seeds the same way with our bare hands until,

All an unemployed youth/graduate needed to do is put his brain to work to create an egusi shelling machine for example and he would be a millionaire selling his product and create jobs That is how innovations are done in other places.
ose o jare, like the quote below me said, our culture is soooooooooooooo anti-change its ridiculous. We have been using the same techniques for thousands of years, this is where the educational system has to step in to change that. The system should force kids right from a young age to be inventive and creative. For example, in university, there is nothing that stops an engineering teacher from giving his first year student a project to invent an egusi shelling machine or a final year student from inventing a yam pounding machine. This is how we solve our local problems.

the greatest asset of a nation is its manpower.
It doesn't matter how much ground Nigerians are breaking outside Nigeria,
The question is How does this feed back into the nation?

So far people have mentioned EVERYTHING that is wrong with our Educational system
and it is the truth. Our system doesn't allow for proper thinking and an actual education.
The environment is so anti-change it is ridiculous. still, this shouldn't be the begining and end of us.

Thanks for the perspective my guy. It doesn't matter what some of our people in other countries, what matters is what impact our educational system having on our economy.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Nobody: 10:59am On Sep 16, 2010
Well there seems to be a rather stereotyped disposition of some posters here to blame individual shortcomings on the government or the "system" whatever that means. That in my view is just a spineless cop-out.

Innovation has more to do with being willing to ask difficult questions, thinking outside the box and being willing to experiment and  take risks.

In essence it has much more to do with upbringing and culture rather than any formal education system.

For example people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates developed their groudbreaking  products and services in their spare time and not under the tutelage of any  government educational system.

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Nobody: 11:11am On Sep 16, 2010
warrior01:

I believe the likes of the OP is the problem we have in Nigeria. They never believe in themselves, It is always greener at the other side. If I may ask 'are you not a Nigerian? What have you done to contribute your quota to the development of the country? Do you think running away to another man's country and being an arm chair critic will ever solve the problem? If I may even ask you 'what have you invented on your own to distinguish you from everyone else or are you not a human being?
Sincerely, Op, your mentality sucks because you would rather look for whom to blame rather than taking on the problem and solving it.

That is true. Some people here clearly lack self-belief and communicate that lack by being negative about their country.

In all seriousness that  question in bold needs to be asked of all these acerbic critics here.

                             WHAT HAVE YOU INVENTED?
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by warrior01: 11:57am On Sep 16, 2010
@Op,
Yes, we are having problems with our educational system but the major challenge mitigating against our growth and development is our attitude towards our country. THE TRUTH REMAINS THAT MOST OF US ARE NOT PATRIOTIC ENOUGH and are quick to exonerate ourselves and blame the government. From what I gathered you are presently in America but may be on closer investigation, you may not have any concrete reason for being there instead of contributing your own quota to the development of Nigeria. We, especially the youths are the problem of Nigeria because we are not ready to take our destiny in our own hands. A case of everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by AjanleKoko: 12:38pm On Sep 16, 2010
Everybody is just going Gidi!! Gbam!! and whatever to Gamine's comment, without really considering the import.
All of us Nigerians of today, with our Western appetite to life? Let's get real. Can we even work with our hands? Are we not waiting for Mr Government to show up and do everything?

By the way, OP, wasn't it you and some other chaps some months back singing the high praises of an Ivy League MBA? Now you are back to science? What happened?

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by lekside44(m): 12:44pm On Sep 16, 2010
davidiflink=topic=512462.msg6764068#msg6764068 date=1284637087:

Everybody is just going Gidi!! Gbam!! and whatever to Gamine's comment, without really considering the import.
All of us Nigerians of today, with our Western appetite to life? Let's get real. Can we even work with our hands? Are we not waiting for Mr Government to show up and do everything?

By the way, OP, wasn't it you and some other chaps some months back singing the high praises of an Ivy League MBA? Now you are back to science? What happened?

well, literature is very important to a society, as well as music , art, just to mention a few. the world is not just about science and, at least many of you watch plays and films. is that not literature?
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by AjanleKoko: 12:58pm On Sep 16, 2010
tensor777:

Well there seems to be a rather stereotyped disposition of some posters here to blame individual shortcomings on the government or the "system" whatever that means. That in my view is just a spineless cop-out.

This is overflogged jare. Spineless being the operative word there. It's easier to duck and blame everything and everybody for your personal failings. As I said earlier. A lazy workman blames his tools. A good workman fixes his tools. Period.

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Kobojunkie: 2:03pm On Sep 16, 2010
AjanleKoko:

Everybody is just going Gidi!! Gbam!! and whatever to Gamine's comment, without really considering the import.
All of us Nigerians of today, with our Western appetite to life? Let's get real. Can we even work with our hands? Are we not waiting for Mr Government to show up and do everything?
By the way, OP, wasn't it you and some other chaps some months back singing the high praises of an Ivy League MBA? Now you are back to science? What happened?

But many of us already work with our hands and have long given up on waiting for MR Government to show up and do everything even in Nigeria. Matter of fact, many of us CONTRIBUTE thousands of our time and money to development that MR Government in most of Africa and Nigeria continues to ignore!  lipsrsealed

However, I do know that not enough of us do this and that seems to be what remains missing.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by davidif: 2:50am On Sep 17, 2010
Kobojunkie:

But many of us already work with our hands and have long given up on waiting for MR Government to show up and do everything even in Nigeria. Matter of fact, many of us CONTRIBUTE thousands of our time and money to development that MR Government in most of Africa and Nigeria continues to ignore!  lipsrsealed

kobojunkie,
Great point. No country develops without good governance (government). There is no developed country in the world that has a government as pathetic as Nigeria's. Its government policy to make sure that its educational system is very functional and that it is producing people that are productive to society. If we could all do without the govt. then why are we even a country in the first place? we might as well go back to living in hamlets and huts afterall no country can live without a leader (just go to Somalia and see). 
Take a look at country's like Israel, Japan, Korea, Singapore and China, this countries developed by heavy government planning and intervention. The governments decided to industrialize there countries and in order to do this they were going to heavily fund education especially through scientic and technological research (especially Israel). Look at California that was primarily an agrarian society but through HEAVY, HEAVY INVOLVEMENT by the state govt. it decided to create an atmosphere that would make Cali the centre of the hi-tech world. Now Cali has the 6th largest economy in the world (a state for that matter, not even a country). If the govt. had done nothing, maybe Cali would be like Mississippi now (lol  grin grin grin grin grin grin). I am saying this to highlight the importance of the govt in scientific innovation and basically bringing out the best in its people. If Einstein, Steve jobs or Bill Gates had gone to some of the primary and secondary schools that we went to, its arguable that we would have ever had about them. Maybe they would have been "local champions" (JET scholars) grin rather than world beaters.
As a finance man, it would be awesome to see VC firm's flooding naija to fund sart ups but as of right now, there is no innovation or technology coming from the academic and scientific community and its the job of the govt. to address that by stepping in abi what are we paying them for? Its amazing how much people expect from there govts here in the developed world. My oh my, is the pressure unbelievable at times, but unfortunately our people in naija don't understand how govt works so they really underestimate how leadership can radically transform every aspect of society (go check out Singapore, Deng Xiaoping's influence in China or Ben Gurion's exploits in Israel) and bring the best out of its people.

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Nobody: 9:44am On Sep 17, 2010
what really is the benefit of education to Nigerians? good qxn.
I think the basis of this is to analyze how education has been of benefit to Nigeria.arent most of our politicians educated?
There are also lots of naija in the diaspora receiving quality education,how has it impacted on Nigeria?
Education does not only take place in classrooms it takes place everywhere.
Producing great thinkers like you are clamouring for does not necessarily come from sitting in harvard classrooms and reading books although i must admit it has its benefits.
Our problems in naija may not be to be using iphones,latest internet technology e.t.c the thinkers will be thinking of how to meet the needs they see everyday.e.g how to patch tire and sell that technology afterall it is technology and it has met a need.To a large extent the environment determines the product.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by oyinda3(f): 5:52pm On Sep 17, 2010
One philosopher whose work has been very eye opening to me is Russel Bertrand. His works "the usefulness of useless knowledge" and "In Praise of Idleness" are very relevant to this topic.

"in praise of idleness" can be found on youtube. and you can also google the transcription.
"usefulness of uselessness" is hard to find but other academics have also written something similar. I'm still looking for Abraham Flexner's "usefulness of useless knowlege" but i'll post a link if i find it.


Anyways, my recommendation is for the wealthy people in Nigeria to cultivate academic thinking in their children.  These "rich kids" the the ones that are more likely to come up with the ideas that change the world.
Another recommendation is for them (the wealthy people) to become philanthropists for the education system
The purpose of general education system is to diffuse useful/technical/professional knowledge ie one that will enable you to make a living out if it rather than one that encourages you to think outside the box. although the latter is the kind that creates civilization

innovative ideas generally come from research and work that aren't really lucrative (although there are exceptions). that's why rich people are more likely to be the ones who are into it. they don't need the money.
darwin for example was encouraged by his father to become a professional. instead, he went off to some island to study birds!!!! that would seem very ridiculous and useless to anybody. but the result of his work has changed the world we live in today. darwin came from a rich family. most people in naija don't so the chances of them doing what darwin did is very slim.
Also, did you think  aristotle and socrates or plato were making money from their books? most likely not. although their works eventually became foundation for how many developed countries their governments etc. and contributed to civilization

I also think that slavery in the US must have contributed to the innovation. the americans had slaves doing the labor so they had more free time to pursue their interests etc. many industrial innovations came at around the same time in the 18th century if you notice. this period also had a high number of slaves
if i had a slave who made my living for me, heck i'll have all the spare time in the world to come up with an invention. lol i won't have to worry about food etc.

this i guess also relates to the "hierarchy of needs" model in psychology.
this principle states that people need the basics of life ie food, shelter, clothing first before they can begin to think of grander things like innovation and whatnot.

that's another reason why rich people in naija need to be appealed to.


---
sorry I'm all over the place. I don't have time to arrange my thoughts in a coherent fashion but i hope you get my point.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by oyinda3(f): 5:54pm On Sep 17, 2010
tensor777:

Well there seems to be a rather stereotyped disposition of some posters here to blame individual shortcomings on the government or the "system" whatever that means. That in my view is just a spineless cop-out.

Innovation has more to do with being willing to ask difficult questions, thinking outside the box and being willing to experiment and  take risks.

In essence it has much more to do with upbringing and culture rather than any formal education system.

For example people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates developed their groudbreaking  products and services in their spare time and not under the tutelage of any  government educational system


TRUE!!!
pls read my post. i expanded a bit more on this in my post.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by lekside44(m): 6:11pm On Sep 17, 2010
davidif:

kobojunkie,

, If Einstein, Steve jobs or Bill Gates had gone to some of the primary and secondary schools that we went to, its arguable that we would have ever had about them. Maybe they would have been "local champions" (JET scholars) grin rather than world beaters. ,

good talk, just this afternoon, i was in a deep taught about this subject. just yesterday, i was in a secondary school discussing with the teachers. believe me, many of them are lamenting about their profession. they see it as a slavery and regretted ever chosen such a proffesion at the first instance. these are meant to be people who mold the future of our children. it shows that their future is ruined just before they have the chance of trying. Nigeria will never develop and will not develop unless some critical factors take shape
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by lekside44(m): 6:14pm On Sep 17, 2010
andromida:

what really is the benefit of education to Nigerians? good qxn.
I think the basis of this is to analyze how education has been of benefit to Nigeria.arent most of our politicians educated?
There are also lots of naija in the diaspora receiving quality education,how has it impacted on Nigeria?
Education does not only take place in classrooms it takes place everywhere.
Producing great thinkers like you are clamouring for does not necessarily come from sitting in harvard classrooms and reading books although i must admit it has its benefits.
Our problems in naija may not be to be using iphones,latest internet technology e.t.c the thinkers will be thinking of how to meet the needs they see everyday.e.g how to patch tire and sell that technology afterall it is technology and it has met a need.To a large extent the environment determines the product.


good talk
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by SEFAGO(m): 8:56pm On Sep 17, 2010
Nigerians whining as usual.  grin

Anyways Olu maintain has a saying  "Awon kan wa aiye wa sise (Chinese/Indians), Awon kan wa aiye wa j'aiye (Nigerians grin)

Anyhoo davidif they have asked you yourself- where is your own highly cited paper in nature or science. As Gandhi said "Be the change you want to see in this world"

No mind me oo, but seriously I partially agree with davidif in a way- Africans/blacks are so underrepresented in the sciences. Sometimes black history month dey vex me with their make believe inventors but I dont want to say anything so that I dont offend anyone. Next time I see emeagwali's name or that guy that made god almight formula, I will shoot someone.


I also think that slavery in the US must have contributed to the innovation. the americans had slaves doing the labor so they had more free time to pursue their interests etc. many industrial innovations came at around the same time in the 18th century if you notice. this period also had a high number of slaves
if i had a slave who made my living for me, heck i'll have all the spare time in the world to come up with an invention. lol i won't have to worry about food etc.

This is b.u.l.l.Poo. African-Americans always make this claim a lot. Slavery did not contribute to any innovation. Slavery was abolished before the Second industrial age in which America grew its fastest- America just started to show its face significantly in the international era after Great Britain got their arse whipped by their German neighbors. While Britain was busy fighting world war their richest colonies were breeding independence movements. Moreover, the industrial revolution started in the late 18th century in Britain and emerged in the later in the 19th century in America. A more compelling point is that slavery slowed down industrial progress in the United States since slaves were available to do manual labor and their was no need to invent elaborate machinery. Britain had long abolished slavery while their brothers in America were just beginning to enjoy the benefits of slavery.

Infact, a significant amount of nobel laureates were won by eastern Europeans and Ashkenazi jews. Infact if you dig deep into all these nobel laureates affiliated to the US and Western Europe you will find interesting data on the origin of the people.

darwin for example was encouraged by his father to become a professional. instead, he went off to some island to study birds!!!! that would seem very ridiculous and useless to anybody. but the result of his work has changed the world we live in today. darwin came from a rich family. most people in naija don't so the chances of them doing what darwin did is very slim.
Also, did you think  aristotle and socrates or plato were making money from their books? most likely not. although their works eventually became foundation for how many developed countries their governments etc. and contributed to civilization

This is intrinsically flawed on three levels: a nonparallel comparison, inherent anachronism, and cultural differences.  For one social science/humanities ideas are not in the same league as hard science research (Which lets be honest requires more IQ and more research time as well as resources)  grin. Infact social science/humanities ideas cannot be disproved- who can argue or prove the body of work of any philosopher? Secondly, Darwin's work was basic science research and observation (I admit though quite a feat in his time) and Aristotle/Plato/Socrates might have laid the foundation of philosophy but their work has been consistently challenged by modern philosophers. Current day research is more high-level- Nigeria does not even have the research grants to fund any high level research. Infact Nigeria has no well organized research funding organization that disburses grants to professors in Nigerian Universities. They even have this in Kenya- please and we call ourselves the giant of africa grin. The third problem is that Socrates, Darwin and co lived in societies where their activities were heavily encouraged. As previously pointed out, except you want to starve in Nigeria- you have to go out and hustle. Rich kids likely do not have the brain power to do some of these research. I can count how many rich Nigerians I know at Imperial College and Oxford for example. Sadly, I do not expect much from them, but more from those poor people who hustled to get abroad.


Carry on though interesting debate. Ajanlekoko always argues his points clearly.

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Nobody: 10:14pm On Sep 17, 2010
oyinda.:

of useless knowlege" but i'll post a link if i find it.


innovative ideas generally come from research and work that aren't really lucrative (although there are exceptions). that's why rich people are more likely to be the ones who are into it. they don't need the money.
darwin for example was encouraged by his father to become a professional. instead, he went off to some island to study birds!!!! that would seem very ridiculous and useless to anybody. but the result of his work has changed the world we live in today. darwin came from a rich family. most people in naija don't so the chances of them doing what darwin did is very slim.
Also, did you think  aristotle and socrates or plato were making money from their books? most likely not. although their works eventually became foundation for how many developed countries their governments etc. and contributed to civilization

That actually is a very profound observation. Most original creative thinkers have the disposition of inventing new things for their own sake and not just because their product or service would have commercial application.
Presumably if money were their main motivation they would lose the incentive to continue inventing after their first big financial breakthrough and start enjoying their life in a tropical island as say the bank robbers do.
No these guys are motivated by the thrill and adventure of discovery not mere material things even though in today's world these discoveries can and do bring financial breakthrough to their inventors
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Beaf: 10:28pm On Sep 17, 2010
I find it so funny that Nigerians make so much noise, but refuse to act when presented with a vehicle.

I've plead with a lot of folk (even on this thread) for some days now, to go register here http://afrosciencecommunity.com

So far, there are quite a few downloadable tech PDF's and we have have the following free inventions to donate to those willing to go a step further;

Yam Harvester (FREE!)
Banana and Plantain Harvester (FREE!)
Energy Forest (FREE!)
Atomic Hydrogen Power Plant (FREE!)
Solar Air Conditioning (FREE!)

Our free inventions catalogue should increase by two by midweek next week. We are not resting on our oars. cool

. . .So why do we beat the question so much and do little or nothing about it? Thats the question, cos there are lots of capable minds. Why are these minds left to lie fallow? The only answer to me is, there is a widespread problem of low self esteem (one of the reasons we are so overly "religious," instead of logical and methodical).

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by GAR3TH(m): 10:40pm On Sep 17, 2010
Actually I think differently. Nigerians are ranked as one of America's highly educated immigrant groups. many Nigerians have bachelor's, master's and PH.D but are not "famous". Education is an individual issue and is up to the person to decide how much knowledge the want to acquire.

I think what nigeria needs is more technical schools i.e. car repair schools, schools for Carpenters , etc. to balance out the education between the blue and white collar workers.
Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by oyinda3(f): 12:45am On Sep 18, 2010
SEFAGO:

African-Americans always make this claim a lot. Slavery did not contribute to any innovation. Slavery was abolished before the Second industrial age in which America grew its fastest- America just started to show its face significantly in the international era after Great Britain got their arse whipped by their German neighbors. While Britain was busy fighting world war their richest colonies were breeding independence movements. Moreover, the industrial revolution started in the late 18th century in Britain and emerged in the later in the 19th century in America.


of course a country grows fastest after a foundation have been set (first industrial revolution saw some of  the more important inventions and without it, the industrial revolution would never have taken place.). ex. the steam engine (1769) was the most important invention.
the second industrial revolution might have been propelled by the war but that's not my point. I'm more focused on the first industrial revolution you should be able to decipher from my post that i'm more concerned with the first industrial revolution when slavery still was in place.

A more compelling point is that slavery slowed down industrial progress in the United States since slaves were available to do manual labor and their was no need to invent elaborate machinery. Britain had long abolished slavery while their brothers in America were just beginning to enjoy the benefits of slavery.

I don't buy that argument. and i've heard it before.
industrial progress was rapid!!!so i don't know what you mean by slavery slowing it down.
also, why did US need to import slaves if they could invent stuff to take care of the job?
besides, i think common sense dictates that machine works faster than human and is more economical. so why would people pick slaves over machinery? 
today, there are many hispanic workers. does this mean that this is hindering innovation!! no!!! if something is innovated, demand for workers will just simply go down. less mouth to feed, less people to watch over.
even now, because of technological innovations and opportunity to outsource, many ppl have lost their jobs.
so i don't buy that argument that additional labor source stymies innovation. in fact, additional labor gives people more time to do other things that involves deep thinking.
ex. if at my work, i decide to get an intern to help me take care of manual labor (photocopying etc), i will have more time to do work that involves thinking and innovation.
that's my opinion. so plz come again with a better argument before i can believe you.



This is intrinsically flawed on three levels: a nonparallel comparison, inherent anachronism, and cultural differences.  For one social science/humanities ideas are not in the same league as hard science research (Which lets be honest requires more IQ and more research time as well as resources)  Grin. Infact social science/humanities ideas cannot be disproved- who can argue or prove the body of work of any philosopher? Secondly, Darwin's work was basic science research and observation (I admit though quite a feat in his time) and Aristotle/Plato/Socrates might have laid the foundation of philosophy but their work has been consistently challenged by modern philosophers. Current day research is more high-level- [b]Nigeria does not even have the research grants to fund any high level research. [/b]Infact Nigeria has no well organized research funding organization that disburses grants to professors in Nigerian Universities. They even have this in Kenya- please and we call ourselves the giant of africa Grin. TRich kids likely do not have the brain power to do some of these research. I can count how many rich Nigerians I know at Imperial College and Oxford for example. Sadly, I do not expect much from them, but more from those poor people who hustled to get abroad.


OMG are you seriously kidding me.  undecided
i don't even know where to start!!

my point: darwin came from a rich family that allowed him to go away on vacation to study birds. whereas another intelligent guy would have chosen to practice a lucrative profession if he came from a poorer family.
your point: gibberish!!

my point: rich parents should encourage their kids to be more academic. because of the rich resources they have, their impact will be greater.
your point: more gibberish!!!


for the bolded part, did you read the part in my post where i appealed to rich people to be more philanthropic and give money to academic study??
obviously not. 

the third problem is that Socrates, Darwin and co lived in societies where their activities were heavily encouraged. As previously pointed out, except you want to starve in Nigeria- you have to go out and hustle.

socrates was sentenced to death for challenging the norms!!!!! i don't know what you mean by his activities were "heavily encouraged" FAR FAR FROM IT.
even darwin was NOT encouraged. his father wanted him to become a doctor or something like that. but instead he took a vacation to study birds.

the reason socrates  was able to devote time to being a philosopher was because he inherited a lot of money from his father!!!! before he striked it rich, he worked as a mason to support his wife and 3 kids.

plz do your research before posting. thanks

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by oyinda3(f): 12:46am On Sep 18, 2010
tensor777:

That actually is a very profound observation. Most original creative thinkers have the disposition of inventing new things for their own sake and not just because their product or service would have commercial application.
Presumably if money were their main motivation they would lose the incentive to continue inventing after their first big financial breakthrough and start enjoying their life in a tropical island as say the bank robbers do.
No these guys are motivated by the thrill and adventure of discovery not mere material things even though in today's world these discoveries can and do bring financial breakthrough to their inventors 

very true!!!
the creator of facebook for example refused $1 billion offer from yahoo to sell his company because he was very passionate about his project. he called it "his baby" according to the yahoo executive who approached him. money was therefore not his motivation.
also, his rich father encouraged his interest in computer science by hiring a programmer to come to their house to tutor him every week!
a poor student won't have had that opportunity to develop his potential.

nigeria IMO need the participation of wealthier folks (and even the middle class) to improve our education system. There should be foundations set up that will fund student work etc like we have in the US. many rich folks here have foundations through which they contribute to academic research.

i'm sure there are also other ideas out there for improving our education system. and i'm glad this topic exists.

1 Like

Re: What's The Benefit Of Education To Nigeria by Gamine(f): 1:57am On Sep 18, 2010
I just asked this question in my house and everyone laughed.
If we go by the question of this topic, Nigerians not Nigeria
There are too many benefits, If that is what you are really concerned about

As long as there is passion lacking in Nigerians for Nigeria, we won't go anywhere
Some talk about the work man and his tools.

AjanleKoko:

This is overflogged jare. Spineless being the operative word there. It's easier to duck and blame everything and everybody for your personal failings. As I said earlier. A lazy workman blames his tools. A good workman fixes his tools. Period.

Nigeria's situation is such that the Work man has no tools kpa kpa.  Any tool he tries to get, is taken away from him.
The only thing he can do is, tend  the garden in his backyard while the farm which would have fed the whole town is left to rot.

Our Government is like the stereotypical bully you had in your primary school.
Everytime you wanted to make a paper boat He would tear the paper. Any kind of paper, even the one signed
by your teacher that says 'Do not tear' and he keeps going on and on until someone else stood up for you. Or until you realised that
you also had a mouth or that you can run away (which is what most Nigerians 'Breaking Ground' outside Nigeria have done)

As long as this bully is running rampant in the schoolyard, there will be no peace of mind, no progress
Until someone with passion as powerful as the bully steps in. Till 'thy kingdom come'
Education will only benefit some Nigerians not Nigeria

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