[/quote][quote author=Tornadoz link=topic=52416.msg1124301#msg1124301 date=1179437430]
@MarioryHehehe look closely, the answer was there for davidylan.
Since you wouldn't know an answer, even if it hits you on the head here is the question and surprise surprise the answer. Clue 1) the answer would be in bold letters.
His question Answer: Gideon Levy was a former spokesman for Shimon Peres (former Israeli premier) works for Haaretz newspaper (One of the more sophisticated newspaper in Israel). He is hardly an "appologetics"
Talk of a distant outsider weeping and wailing more than the bereaved.
He then said How could any one in their right mind label Gideon Levy an "islamic revisionists and proponents of political correctness".

Since you may not be able to find your way back here if I ask you to go read again the article,below is some excerpts.

*Holds head in hands*
Is there another language you speak? Maybe we can restructure the question so you understand.

@ tornadoz,
I-Man and TayoD have duly responded insughtfully to your load of politically correct drivel. Why are you and your ilk so hang up on the thoughts of a man as politically irrelevant as Gideon Levy? the answer is simple, because he, like others who do not understand the REAL spiritual underpinnings of Hamas article 7 continue to spin fairy tales that portray Isreal as the aggressive bully intimidating and illegally occupying land belonging to the purported victims, the palestinians.

There are thousands of Jews like Levy who see and speak the truth, however since that is not palatable to you, it is convenient to ignore them.

Have you and your palestinian brothers been able to prove by archeological and historical evidence that the land belongs to you beyond any reasonable doubt? while you are busy whinning, the Jews are busy discovering more artifacts that further cement their claims to the land.

Tornadoz:

Ehud Barak the Israeli leader met with Yasser Arafat at camp David in 2000. He did not make mention of article7 , which seems to be the excuse you are relying on. Now there is no way a person like Sharon would have met and shaken the hands of Arafat, no way. Sharon blamed Arafat for stalling the peace process, now the preferred choice of Israel (Mahmoud Abbas) is now the Palestinian leader yet Israel won't negotiate a meaning full settlement. Is Israel waiting for a mossad general to be Palestinian leader before they negotiate?

That Sharon shook hands with Arafat makes no difference. Sharon still viewed Arafat for the evil terrorist that he truly was behind the facade of the smile and the whinning about peace that does not exist. Mohammed started out preaching "peace" to his neighbours and the unbelievers until he became millitarily stronger, after that it became "kill them. . ."!

The same arab nations crying peace today did not bother to negotiate when they surrounded Isreal in 1967! Would Arafat have been shaking hands with Sharon had palestine had superior weapons?

Tornadoz:

I have made the point over and over, it is Israel that does not want to negotiate. If you had bothered to read the first article on this thread you won't be asking such silly question.I refer you to Gideon Levy's article on why Israel don't want to negotiate, the reasons are there in black and white.

If you had bothered to read the Hamas article of faith you wont be dribbling around in circles. IT is the usual islamic excuse to blame Isreal for not wanting peace when even those who are not remotely connected to the palestinian crisis are the first to call for Jews to be wiped off the map from the comfort of their palaces in Tehran! Of course hypocrites like you pretend not to hear! Keep clinging to Gideon Levy's article.

davidlan,

Are you a Pat Robinson EVANGELIST,all the views you've expressed here are just straight up from the 700 Club

mrmayor:

davidlan,

Are you a Pat Robinson EVANGELIST,all the views you've expressed here are just straight up from the 700 Club

Are u a George Monbiot MOONBAT?

Tell us what you think is wrong with the basic premise,that a religious doctrine that demands the expulsion of infidels from "Holy Land" is a huge clog in the wheel of peace-making in the Middle East.

This is one "elephant in the room" that the anti-Isreal brigade prefer to gloss over.

@I-man

There is one fundamental difference.The ANC's official position never was the extinction of the whites in South Africa.Its one thing to have inciteful slogans,its quite another to make genocide your official position.

Another key difference is that Hamas' position is not simply a matter of rhetorics,as in the South African case,but it is a product of religious faith. This inflexibility is borne out of a religious doctrine that views the prescence of infidels on "Holy Land" as an abomination.

The fundamental differences here is, who wields power in the Jewish state. How come this article7 was not a precondition for Ehud Barak when he met Arafat to negotiate peace?

The basic thing is,we won't have arrived at this point if the Palestinians had agreed to share land with the Isrealis ab initio.They insisted on having the whole lot and having failed,they are dealing with the consequences of their failure

Can you link me to where the Palestinians "insisted on having the whole lot"?
To blame the Palestinians whose land is occupied for not sharing the land with the occupier is the height of hypocrisy.
The above quote proves you either know very little about the conflict or you are prepared to gloss over facts.

Tornadoz:

@I-manThe fundamental differences here is, who wields power in the Jewish state. How come this article7 was not a precondition for Ehud Barak when he met Arafat to negotiate peace?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact  that Arafat was of the Fatah party while the present Palestinian Govt is Hamas led.Article 7 is to be found in Hamas' constitution not Fatah.I thought u know the issues well

Tornadoz:

Can you link me to where the Palestinians "insisted on having the whole lot"?
To blame the Palestinians whose land is occupied for not sharing the land with the occupier is the height of hypocrisy.
The above quote proves you either know very little about the conflict or you are prepared to gloss over facts.

Now this is a joke.I can overlook not knowing the difference btw Fatah and Hamas but not knowing that the Arabs  rejected a 2 state solution in the 40s and decided to wage  war  is on another level.I presume you know the basic history of the conflict before arguing about it?

@davidylan
You have repeated the phrase " politically correct "so many times that I need to respond to it.
When White supremacist make racist statement, people like you will be up in arms accusing them of racism. Whats good for the goose is also good for the gander. You can't scream political correctness when it is to do with Palestinians and shout fowl when it is to do with color?. Those who live in glass houses (black people) should not be so quick to lob stones.

Why are you and your ilk so hang up on the thoughts of a man as politically irrelevant as Gideon Levy

Hmmm Gideon Levy, a politically irrelevant man? Are you calling a former government spokesman and a member of the editorial board of Ha'aretz Newspaper irrelevant.?

There are thousands of Jews like Levy who see and speak the truth,

That's the point I have been making. We are getting there slowly.

Have you and your palestinian brothers been able to prove by archeological and historical evidence that the land belongs to you beyond any reasonable doubt? while you are busy whinning, the Jews are busy discovering more artifacts that further cement their claims to the land.

If these archaelogical and historical evidence are not being presented to the UN and the International court of Justice. Sorry those institutions are biased, the only non biased reason why we should believe the land belongs to the Israelis is the findings of Jewish archaeologists.

That Sharon shook hands with Arafat makes no difference.

Sharon never shook the hands of Arafat.

The same arab nations crying peace today did not bother to negotiate when they surrounded Isreal in 1967! Would Arafat have been shaking hands with Sharon had palestine had superior weapons?

We would never know, would we.

If you had bothered to read the Hamas article of faith you wont be dribbling around in circles. IT is the usual islamic excuse to blame Isreal for not wanting peace when even those who are not remotely connected to the palestinian crisis are the first to call for Jews to be wiped off the map from the comfort of their palaces in Tehran! Of course hypocrites like you pretend not to hear! Keep clinging to Gideon Levy's article.

Am still waiting for you to disprove what's wrong in the article.

@I-man

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Arafat was of the Fatah party while the present Palestinian Govt is Hamas led.Article 7 is to be found in Hamas' constitution not Fatah.I thought u know the issues wel

Surely you know the present president of Palestine is from the Fatah party. If the article is to be found in Hamas constitution how come they did not negotiate with Fatah. Is it not because Abbas did not deliver that made the Palestinian people to choose Hamas?

Now this is a joke.I can overlook not knowing the difference between Fatah and Hamas but not knowing that the Arabs rejected a 2 state solution in the 40s and decided to wage war is on another level.I presume you know the basic history of the conflict before arguing about it?

Was it not Ben Gurrion who independently declared Isreal independent from the British. When was this 2 state solution that you are referring to. Are you living in the 40s?

@TayoD
You are no longer making sense. Is this because you have run out of excuses?

Tornadoz:

@I-man Surely you know the present president of Palestine is from the Fatah party. If the article is to be found in Hamas constitution how come they did not negotiate with Fatah. Is it not because Abbas did not deliver that made the Palestinian people to choose Hamas?

They have been negotiating with Fatah for decades.The Oslo Accords its a case in point.Sometimes negotiations break down but they do negotiate.Where they draw a line is Hamas.This is not to say that there are no low-level contacts.

Tornadoz:

Was it not Ben Gurrion who independently declared Isreal independent from the British. When was this 2 state solution that you are referring to. Are you living in the 40s?

Land was demarcated between Isreal and the rest by UN Resolution .Isreal accepted it but the Arabs insisted on sovereignty over the entire territory.They went to war and lost,the rest is history

@ Tornadoz

Tornadoz:

@I-manThe fundamental differences here is, who wields power in the Jewish state. How come this article7 was not a precondition for Ehud Barak when he met Arafat to negotiate peace? Can you link me to where the Palestinians "insisted on having the whole lot"?
To blame the Palestinians whose land is occupied for not sharing the land with the occupier is the height of hypocrisy.
The above quote proves you either know very little about the conflict or you are prepared to gloss over facts.

It is clear that the individual prepared to gloss over the "facts" is indeed you! The land of "Palaestina" was created by the Roman army after the second destruction of the Jewish temple in AD 70 for the sole purpose of minimizing Jewish influence on the land. It should be noted that the term "Palestine" does NOT have an arab meaning but is Greco-roman in origin.

After the end of world war I, the Ottoman empire transferred Palestine to British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement. In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 75% of Palestine to the present day Jordan (please see the below map). Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.

Islamic revisionists repeatedly accuse the jews of illegal occupation - did Judea and Samaria historically belong to the Arabs or Jews? This area is refered to as the "west bank" by those desperate to erase all forms of Jewish identity from the land they falsely claim to own.

In 1948, Isreal finally declared her independence. The Arab nations immediately attacked her, calling on the Arab residents of Isreal to leave and then return after the new Isreali nation had been completely destroyed.
"The 15th May, 1948, arrived , On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead."
– The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, Oct. 12, 1963.

It is this same "palestinian" arabs/refugees that have become political pawns in the hands of the same arab brothers, who encouraged them to leave Isreal in the first place, in the religion-inspired goal of complete destruction of Isreal as the foundation of the Judeo-christian religion.

"Kill the Jews - kill them with your hands, kill them with your teeth - this is well pleasing to Allah."
- Haj Amin al Husseini,speaking together with Hitler on Berlin Radio in 1942

The west bank and Gaza as political tools in the hands of arabs

It has been deceitfully and ingorantly asserted on this thread that there would be peace if only Isreal would revert to her 1967 borders. Here is the hypocrisy of this statement: why was Isreal attacked in 1948 and 1967 when she was NOT in control of the west bank and Gaza?
As at 1967, the west bank was in the control of the newly created nation of Jordan (which curiously is not regarded as an occupying force despite being given 75% of the land of "palestine" by the same British Balfour declaration that created Isreal in 1922! How amazing!) and used by advancing Jordanian and Iraqi forces to launch a barrage of attacks against the new nation of Isreal.

Here is an excerpt from the Palestinian National Charter in 1964:
Article 16: , the people of Palestine, desiring to befriend all nations
which love freedom, justice, and peace, look forward to their support in
restoring the legitimate situation to Palestine, , and [in] enabling its
people to exercise national sovereignty and freedom.

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty
over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, [or] on the Gaza Strip

As at 1964, the PLO clearly asserted that they did NOT have territorial rights to the westbank and Gaza, which were under Jordanian control. Why did the Isreali-Palestinian conflict suddenly become a fight for control of the same territories after they reverted to Jewish control in 1967?

According to Zuheir Mohsein, a member of the supreme council of the PLO, in an interview with the Dutch Daily Trouw (3/31/1977):
"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate Palestinian identity in contrast to Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity."

Are these the people Isreal is actively encouraged to make peace with? Was there a separate palestinian nation ruled by palestinians with a palestinian culture and language before 1948? What of the 75% of Palestine occupied by Jordan? Why are the "palestinian refugees" not bothering to fight for that piece of land, prefering rather to fight Isreal for less than 30% of a land they claim to be historically theirs?

When Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from the west bank and Gaza (Isreal occupies a meagre 1.5%) and allow east Jerusalem to revert to palestinian control at the Camp David accord in 2000, Arafat refused! Insisting that the "palestinian refugees" who fled Isreal in 1948 be allowed to return to their "homes".
We all know the REAL intention is to flood Isreal with millions of Arabs complete with infiltrating terrorists, suicide bombers, insurgents whose sole intention is to destroy the Jewish nation from within and not really about returning to a "home" they never had in the first place. May we ask why these "refugees" are not demanding to return to Jordan?

", in demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees, the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves; or to put it quite clearly – the intention is the extermination of Israel."
- Egyptian Foreign Minister, Muhammad Salah al-Din. Al-Misri, 11 October 1949, as quoted by N. Feinberg, p109

Tornadoz:

@I-man Surely you know the present president of Palestine is from the Fatah party. If the article is to be found in Hamas constitution how come they did not negotiate with Fatah. Is it not because Abbas did not deliver that made the Palestinian people to choose Hamas?

It is not difficult to note those who are merely arguing from religious and NOT factual leanings. The president of Palestine (a term/nation that historically does NOT exist) is Fatah while the prime minister is from Hamas. What is the difference?

- Let us put things straight! There was no nation called Palestine historically and if it ever did exist, palestine is NOT an arab but a Roman creation! After Titus army destroyed Isreal in AD 70, it was renamed Palestine to erase Jewish identity. It is this same name that the arabs now claim in their REAL struggle to destroy Isreal.

- Why is attention placed on Isreal which occupies less than 25-30% of the alleged palestinian territory? Why are they not interested in taking Jordan too? So much attention is made about Isreal being a creation of European powers while conveniently forgetting that Jordan falls under the same category!

@davidylan
Well done for trying to educate a couple of people ignorant of the real situation. This is not the first time on nairaland that this information will be shared. The cycle is nearing an end where the extremist defenders will slip away tail between legs and the thread will die.

Then they will return some months later, start another thread and the cycle will begin again.

Dave,

I don't give a fu-ck about the Jews or the Arabs but keep your arguments factual and please don't post what you've been taught in the 700 Club.

Real Map of British Controlled Palestine

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

mrmayor:

Dave,

I don't give a fu-ck about the Jews or the Arabs but keep your arguments factual and please don't post what you've been taught in the 700

right on point

Thanks mrmayor,
But is it not funny that you accuse me of posting what "i've been taught by the 700 club" when you pick your own facts from wikipedia where even a 10yr old has access to edit whatever he likes?

What constitutes "teachings of the 700 club"? anything that remotely sounds pro-isreal even though it is the TRUTH?

Please look at the map you posted and erroneously/mischievously labeled " REAL MAP OF BRITISH CONTROLLED PALESTINE". Even your wikipedia source CORRECTLY labels it as the "1947 UN Partition Plan" and NOT the real map of British controlled palestine as at september 1922 when land east of river Jordan was carved out and given to King Abdullah to form what is now known as the state of Jordan. Land west of Jordan river remained under British control until it reverted to Isreali homeland in 1948.

Here is a quote from your own source:

The precise geographical boundaries of the Mandate, and whether or not it was wholly intended to become a "Jewish National Home" have historically been disputed, with conflicting and shifting British promises to Jewish and Arab interests made in the Balfour Declaration of 1917, the Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence, and the Churchill White Paper, 1922. Territory under British control east of the Jordan River was formed in September 1922 into a separate administration known as Transjordan. Transfer of authority to an Arab government in Transjordan took place gradually, starting with the recognition of a local administration in 1923 and transfer of most administrative functions in 1928.[2] Britain retained mandatory authority over the region until it became fully independent as the Hashemite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan in 1946.

The territory west of the Jordan remained under British administration until 1948. Following World War II, the United Nations succeeded the League of Nations as overseer of Mandate territories, and took up the question of Jewish and Arab self-government in the Mandate. On September 30, 1947 Britain decided to terminate the British mandate of Palestine, later setting the withdrawal date of May 15th, 1948.[3]

And here is the CORRECT map of British controlled Palestine BEFORE the formation of the Jordanian state in 1922 from your own wikipedia source: (note that it is not any different from the map i posted earlier)

- The approximate borders of the British Mandate circa 1922. In September 1922 Britain organized the territory east of the Jordan river, "Transjordan," as an autonomous state.

NymphoQin:


right on point

right on point without you even bothering to read the source yourself? Right on point as a clear case of selective reading and ignorance.

mrmayor:

Dave,

I don't give a fu-ck about the Jews or the Arabs but keep your arguments factual and please don't post what you've been taught in the 700 Club.

In the end it wont matter whether whatever i post is what i've been taught by the 700 club, the real question is whether they are valid facts or not. It is easy to sweep facts under the carpet and label them "700 club", the problem is no one has yet come up with concrete evidence to prove that the 700 club has been lying and manipulating facts all these while. Overwhelming evidence points to the fact that it is those on the opposite side of the fence who have been doctoring history to suit their selfish anti-semitic agenda.

Dave,

I don't give a fu-ck about the Jews or the Arabs but keep your arguments factual and please don't post what you've been taught in the 700 Club.

oops my bad ,did i hurt your fragile feelings? lmao. this is what i was referring to my sweetness. he is right on point here .

davidylan:

right on point without you even bothering to read the source yourself? Right on point as a clear case of selective reading and ignorance.

oh and speaking of ignorance lmao yours is on display in the muslim/religion threads honey, so keep your knickers on

@davidylan

It is not difficult to note those who are merely arguing from religious and NOT factual leanings.

I knew you were a comedian, but reading the above showed what a genius comedian you really are. Talk of the kettle calling the pot black. We are Christians, the difference between me and you is, you allow your extreme Christian right wing belief to cloud your judgment. If Palestinians were the ones destroying houses, killing stone throwing children, murdering people of different political views---I would be here fighting from the Jewish corner.

This is a snap view of your activities on this forum. You spend most of your time in religious debates, with nothing complimentary to Islam or its followers.

tornadoz
i could kiss you buahahahahahaha

@NymphoQin
Please do, Lol

kiss kisss
bye for now , i can't give myself a headache over this, see you around have fun lmao

NymphoQin:

oops my bad ,did i hurt your fragile feelings? lmao. this is what i was referring to my sweetness. he is right on point here .
oh and speaking of ignorance lmao yours is on display in the muslim/religion threads honey, so keep your knickers on

lol. no ma'am, its impossible for air heads to hurt my feelings. I was amused that you were quick to claim "right on point" for a discussion you were neither following nor had any idea about. Any right thinnking individual could easily pin point the errors in mrmayor's post directly from his own source.

@ Tornadoz, aww pele!  Did the truth hit you square in the face so hard that the only response you could think of was go ferreting for my profile?

Tornadoz:

We are Christians, the difference between me and you is, you allow your extreme Christian right wing belief to cloud your judgment.

Ah, another member of the Committee of Concerned Christians for Allah (CCCA), welcome back.  This "i am a christian too" mentality with those who prefer to align with sentiments, falsehood and those sworn to the destruction of Isreal is hogwash! You don't need to be a christian to see the truth!

Tornadoz:

If Palestinians were the ones destroying houses, killing stone throwing children, murdering people of different political views---I would be here fighting from the Jewish corner.

awwww, they fooled you with their propaganda too? Thankfully those who exposed hezbollah's blatant lies were not even members of the 700 club, "christians" like you would have labeled them liars.
Isnt it funny how many of us "christians" are so concerned about palestinian homes and children that we continue to turn a blind eye to DELIBERATE targetting of kindergarten children in Isreal by hezbollah and hamas?
How convenient to ignore the use of "innocent" civilians, women and children as human shields by hamas and hezbollah and cry loudly when they are killed by isreali forces defending their territory?
Is it not amazing how many of us ignore the fact that hamas launched rockets unprovoked into Isreal as early as yesterday?

Tornadoz:

This is a snap view of your activities on this forum. You spend most of your time in religious debates, with nothing complimentary to Islam or its followers.

aww, did i make you sob this much? Pele! When you find something complimentary about islam please do not hesitate to let me know. 

NymphoQin:

kiss kisss
bye for now , i can't give myself a headache over this, see you around have fun lmao

good idea lol. I didnt think this thread was meant for people whose idea of mental stimulation includes stroking pussyCAT's. There must be a thread for u on the sexuality section.

@Dramaking

aww, you really are a sissy, i really did hurt your feelings, one would think it was a girl fight lol sorry for not agreeing with you and your constant rants little girl. what did your mum not let you play dress up? please leave my pussycat alone, i know who and what i am, atleast i am not here playing charades, acting like you some good christian, people like you make people go off religions. and leave the catty ways and fights to girls

@NymphoQin
Welcome to the deluded world of Christian "Taleban" davidylan.

Lacking the instruments of logic,our anti-Isreal brigade have resorted to ad hominen attacks

I-man:

Lacking the instruments of logic,our anti-Isreal brigade have resorted to ad hominen attacks

I'm glad you noticed. Ever since the truth smacked them hard in the face, rather than counter with persuasive arguments they choose to attack personalities.

Lacking the instruments of logic,our anti-Isreal brigade have resorted to ad hominen attacks

Am not surprised you refer to us as anti-Israel. In 2004 or so Google was accused of being anti-semitic, for returning searches typed into its search engine.

Tornadoz:

Am not surprised you refer to us as anti-Israel. In 2004 or so Google was accused of being anti-semitic, for returning searches typed into its search engine.

Complete and utter non-sequitur

@I-man
You are beginning to bore me.
Do you really have something to say?
You have referred to us as "anti-Isreal brigade"I replied that a search engine was as well accused of being anti-semitic.
Next you came up with "non-sequitur".
Is this a convenient way of saying "I have no answer"