Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,143,328 members, 7,780,848 topics. Date: Friday, 29 March 2024 at 12:25 AM

Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy - Foreign Affairs (7) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Foreign Affairs / Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy (12642 Views)

These Are The Photos North Korea Doesn't Want You To See / Nelson Mandela Dead 2013” : Nobel Peace Prize 1993 Killed By Internet Death Hoax / Israel Plans Nuclear Strike On Iran (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11) (Go Down)

Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 6:37am On Jun 06, 2007
SHAME ON THE LEFT AND ITS VICIOUS HATRED OF ISRAEL

Thursday May 31,2007
By Leo McKinstry Have your say(cool
ANTI-RACISM is supposed to be one of the guiding principles of our society, preventing discrimination on the grounds of ethnic origin or nationality. 

Yet it is a bizarre paradox of modern Britain that there is now a climate of increasing hostility towards Jews, particularly in those Left-wing intellectual circles which otherwise make a fetish of their concern for racial sensitivities. 

Dressed up as criticism of the state of Israel, anti-Semitism is becoming not just tolerated but even fashionable in some of our civic institutions, including the universities and parts of the media.

Thanks to the Left’s neurotic hatred of Israel, we now have the extraordinary sight of self-styled liberal campaigners launching McCarthyite witch-hunts against anyone deemed to have Israeli connections, as in this week’s debate at the University and College Union’s annual conference at Bourne­mouth calling for a boycott of all Israeli academic institutions. 

It has led to a rise in anti-Semitism in Britain.
Respect for democracy, individual rights and freedom of speech are being crushed beneath the juggernaut of shrill indignation. 

What is particularly disturbing is the way opposition to the Jewish state descends into vicious antagonism against Jews themselves, as shown by this sickening recent outburst from writer Pamela Hardyment, a member of the National Union of Journalists, which in April voted to boycott Israeli goods.

Explaining her support for the NUJ’s stance, Ms Hardyment described Israel as “a wonderful Nazi-like killing machine backed by the world’s richest Jews”. 

Then, like some lunatic from the far-Right, she referred to the “so-called Holocaust” before concluding: “Shame on all Jews, may your lives be cursed.” 

Such words could have come straight from Hitler or the most fervent supporter of Osama Bin Laden.

But Ms Hardyment is hardly unique. 

This sort of seething resentment can be found throughout the Left, whether in demands that Israel be treated as a pariah state or in connivance at anti-Semitic propaganda. Typical of this approach was the opinion of Ulster poet and darling of the BBC Tom Paulin, who once argued that “Jewish settlers in Israel should be shot dead. They are Nazis, racists. I feel nothing but hatred for them.” 

Yet Paulin would no doubt be outraged if some English extremist uttered the same sentiments about radical Muslims settling in Britain. 

One of the most nauseating rhetorical devices used by hysterical campaigners such as Paulin and Hardyment is to draw an analogy between the Nazi regime and the modern government of Israel. 

Such a link is not only historically absurd, since Israel is by far the most democratic and liberal country in the Middle East, but it is also offensive because it demonises the Jews and devalues the horror of the Holocaust.

The pretence that Israel’s actions in its own defence against Islamic terrorists are somehow the equivalent of Nazi Germany’s gas chambers is a lie worthy of Dr Goebbels himself. And the tragedy is that this continual assault on Israel has led to a rise in anti-Semitism in Britain, much of it fuelled by Islamic radicals. 

In 2006 there were 594 anti-Semitic race-hate incidents in this country, a 31 per cent rise on 2005 and the highest total since records began in 1984.

I should perhaps stress that I do not come from a Jewish family. Like Tom Paulin, I hail from the Belfast middle-class. But I have been repelled by the anti-Semitism – disguised as support for the Palestinians – of parts of the British Left. 

I first became aware of this nasty phenomenon when, in 1985, I attended the annual conference of the National Union
of Students at Blackpool. There I was appalled to hear delegates calling for a ban on student Jewish societies, on the grounds that because such groups supported the state of Israel they were essentially fascistic in nature.

Yet, more than 20 years later, this sort of intolerance is no longer confined to the student debating floor. It now exists in large swathes of education, the press and the arts. 

The boycott of Israel by academics was started by Professor Stephen Rose of the Open University, like Paulin another BBC favourite, who told his colleagues that “you have no right to treat Israel as if it were a normal state”.

The boycott is now so widespread that, in one grotesque incident, an Israeli PhD student had his application for Oxford initially rejected purely because he had served in his country’s army.

The professor dealing with the case, Andrew Wilkie, said he had “a huge problem with Israelis taking the moral high ground from their appalling treatment in the Holocaust and then inflicting gross human rights abuses on Palestinians”.

Professor Wilkie would not have dreamt of turning down a Zim­babwean because of Mugabe’s tyranny, or a Chinese applicant because of his own opposition to the occupation of Tibet.


This is what is so contemptible about the intellectuals’ fixation with Israel.    

They are guilty of the most bizarre double standards.      

While they scream about the Jewish state, they remain silent about human rights abuses carried out by brutal regimes across the world.

And it is ironic that, on the day the lecturers debated a boycott of Israel, they also voted to refuse to co-operate with any attempt to crack down on radical Islam on campuses, claiming such a move would be an infringement of free speech. 

Given some of the lecturers’ enthusiasm for silencing Israeli opinion such a position is laughable in its hypocrisy.


United by anti-Semitism, the bigots of the academic Left and Muslim fundamentalism are destroying freedom of thought in this country.


The irony of this article is that it expressly mirrors the sentiments of the many on this forum who mask their anti-semitism with the cloak of supporting the palestinian cause. A fraud and self inflicted "injustice" that has become a ready propaganda tool in the hands of those only too willing to indirectly carry out the REAL wishes of the dying prophet of islam
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 6:44am On Jun 06, 2007
Afam:

GBAM! The same position that many of us that are labelled anti-Jew have taken is being taken by one of the most ardent supporters of Israel.

Maybe we have succeeded in knocking some senses into this man.

For peace to reign in the middle east Israel must withdraw to the pre 1967 borders and a state of Palestine created, chikena. Na hia our position start come finish sef.

You cannot have peace without justice, equity and fair play.


The below quote is taken from a frank response on a website to a similar case of revisionist history as exhibited above:

I simply must respond to Alray's revision of history, where he blames the Six day War for Arab hatred of Jews. Perhaps he has formed such a ludicrous idea, without the most basic of the region's history? Or perhaps this is just another attempt to always place the blame on Israel and the Jews? What abhout the Hebron Massacres of 1929, in which dozens of Jews were murdered by rampaging Arabs? or what about the following (pre 1967) terror attacks? Jan. 1, 1952 - Jerusalem 7 armed terrorists attacked and killed a 19 year-old girl in her home, in the neighborhood of Beit Yisrael. June 7, 1953 - Jerusalem A youngster was killed and three others were wounded in shooting attacks on residential areas in southern Jerusalem. June 9, 1953 - Lod and Hadera Terrorists killed a resident of Lod, after throwing hand grenades and spraying gunfire in all directions. On the same night, another group of terrorists attacked a house in Hadera. June 11, 1953 - Kfar Hess Terrorists attacked a young couple in their home and shot them to death. March 17, 1954 - Maale Akrabim Terrorists ambushed a bus traveling from Eilat to Tel Aviv, opening fire at short range. The terrorists boarded the bus, and shot each passenger, one by one, murdering 11. January 2, 1955 - Judean Desert 2 hikers killed by terrorists. Mar 24, 1955 - Patish 1 young woman killed and 18 wounded when terrorists threw hand grenades and opened fire on a crowded wedding celebration. April 7, 1956 - Ashkelon 1 young woman killed when terrorists threw 3 hand grenades into her house. Apr. 7, 1956 - Kibbutz Givat Chaim 2 killed when terrorists opened fire on a car. Apr. 11, 1956 - Shafrir (Kfar Chabad) 3 children and 1 youth worker killed, and 5 injured, when terrorists opened fire on a synagogue full of children and teenagers. Apr. 29, 1956 - Nahal Oz Egyptians killed 21-year-old Ro'i Rottenberg. September 12, 1956 - Ein Ofarim Terrorists killed 3 Druze guards. September 23, 1956 - Kibbutz Ramat Rachel 4 archaeologists killed and 16 wounded when terrorists opened fire from a Jordanian position. September 24, 1956 - Aminadav Terrorists killed a girl in the fields of the farming community of Aminadav, near Jerusalem. October 4, 1956 - Sdom 5 Israeli workers killed. October 9, 1956 - Neve Hadasah 2 workers were killed in an orchard of the youth village. Nov. 8, 1956 - Terrorists opened fire on a train, attacked cars and blew up wells, in the north and center of Israel. 6 Israelis were wounded. Feb. 18, 1957 - Nir Yitzhak 2 civilians killed by terrorist landmines. March 8, 1957 - Kibbutz Beit Govrin A shepherd from Kibbutz Beit Govrin was killed by terrorists in a field near the kibbutz. April 16, 1957 - Kibbutz Mesilot 2 guards killed by terrorists who infiltrated from Jordan. May 20, 1957 - Arava A terrorist opened fire on a truck in the Arava region, killing a worker. May 29, 1957 - Kibbutz Kisufim 1 killed and 2 wounded when their vehicle struck a landmine. August 23, 1957 - Kibbutz Beit Govrin Two guards of the Israeli Mekorot water company killed. December 21, 1957 - Kibbutz Gadot A member of Kibbutz Gadot was killed in the kibbutz fields. Feb 11, 1958 - Kfar Yona Terrorists killed a resident of Moshav Yanov. Apr 5, 1958 - Tel Lachish Terrorists lying in ambush shot and killed two people. May 26, 1958 - Jerusalem 4 Israeli police officers killed in a Jordanian attack on Mt. Scopus. Nov 17, 1958 - Mt. of the Beatitudes | Syrian terrorists killed the wife of the British air attache in Israel, who was staying at the guesthouse of the Italian Convent. Dec 3, 1958 - Kibbutz Gonen A shepherd killed and 31 civilians wounded in an artillery attack. Jan. 23, 1959 - Kibbutz Lehavot Habashan A shepherd from Kibbutz Lehavot Habashan was killed. Feb 1, 1959 - Moshav Zavdiel 3 civilians killed by a terrorist landmine. April 15, 1959 - Kibbutz Ramat Rahel A guard was killed at Kibbutz Ramat Rahel. Apr 27, 1959 - Masada 2 hikers shot and killed at close range. September 6, 1959 - Nitzana Bedouin terrorists killed a paratroop reconnaissance officer near Nitzana. September 8, 1959 - Negev Bedouins opened fire on an army bivouac in the Negev, killing an IDF officer, Captain Yair Peled. October 3, 1959 - Kibbutz Yad Hana A shepherd from Kibbutz Heftziba was killed near Kibbutz Yad Hana. Apr 26, 1960 - Ashkelon Terrorists killed a resident of the city. April 12, 1962 - Eilat Terrorists fired on an Egged bus on the way to Eilat; one passenger was wounded. Jan 1, 1965 - Palestinian terrorists attempted to bomb the National Water Carrier - the first attack carried out by the PLO's Fatah faction. May 31, 1965 - Musara Jordanian Legionnaires fired on the neighborhood of Musara in Jerusalem, killing two civilians and wounding four. July 5, 1965 - Mitzpe Massua A Fatah cell planted explosives near Beit Guvrin, and on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem near Kfar Battir. May 16, 1966 - Northern Galilee region Two Israelis killed when their jeep hit a terrorist landmine. Tracks led into Syria.

[size=13pt]All these occured BEFORE 1967! What lands where the arabs allegedly fighting for?[/size]
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 7:22am On Jun 06, 2007
Another peace that CLEARLY exposes the naivete, selective reasoning, manipulation of history and revisionist tendencies of many here who choose to support their anti-semitic views on the crutches of ignorance masquerading as "facts".

The problem with current attitudes in the West is that they are based on revisionist history, either that or a very bad case of selective history. Everyone thinks that if Israel did not exist and the Palestinians got 'their' land back (I'll come to that in a moment) then there would be peace and everyone would play nice. Apart from grossly inaccurate, it is naive in the extreme. If you bother to look back prior to the Balfour Declaration, you will see that in the 19th Century, Jerusalem and what is now the State of Israel was largely populated by Jews; there were very few Arabs in what is today considered the Palestinian territories either. 'Palestine' was so-called by the British colonialists; 'Palestine' as a state never existed. In fact, up until 1948, a Palestinian was a Jew living in the British mandate of Palestine. The term 'Palestinian' only became widely used to describe Arabs after 1963 when Arafat decided to launch a campaign of terror against the Jewish State.

For alroy to state that the problems in the Middle East are a direct result of the creation of the State of Israel just shows a distinct lack of understanding of global geopolitics. Virtually every Arab regime is corrupt, tyrannical and oppressive. Israel is the only country in the entire region rated as free by Freedom House. The Arab states - like their Western counterparts - need a foil to deflect what is happening at 'home'. In the Arabs' case, it is their collective hatred for the Jews and Israel. Look at the website 3xterrorists.com; there are testimonies from people who have been there, who have tried to kill and main innocent civilians. It is not about land, it never has been and it never will be: the Palestinians want Israel - all of Israel and they want the Jews dead.

I could go on and on, but may I suggest to everyone who thinks they know what is happening in the Middle East, read 'From Time Immemorial' by Joan Peters and 'Why I left Jihad' by Whalid Shoebat: these are amongst the most revealing books you will ever read. I will end on this: if Israel goes, mark my words, the UK, France, Germany and the whole EU will be next. Radical Islam will span the entire globe. Thank G-d for Israel (and a Republican USA) as they are the only ones who are brave enough to stand up to the Islamofascists.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by chidichris(m): 11:02am On Jun 06, 2007
our major problem on this thread is that even those of us who are fighting for palestine are not in line with their demands.
they are not fighting for the 1967 boarders rather they are calling for "a total withdrawal" and possibly the eradication of isreal.
we have to know what we are fighting for. on seperate occassions, there have been calls from different people for isreal to be wiped out of the surface of the earth.
the hamas led government is not ready to recognise isreal as a state.
people should be informed well enough before engaging themselves in wars.
the iranian president made it clear to all that to him helocust did not happen and joked that if it happened isreal should be in any of the european countries and not in the middle east.
please if anyone here insists that the problem is 1967 boarders, i ask that he or she reffer me to any fact or prove of this.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 1:58pm On Jun 06, 2007
@davidylan
huh? From whence camest thou? . . . and the very first statement is to insult people?
Where was the insult?
He said: "Some guys are funny"
What is insulting in that statement? To most sane people you are a comedian.
Why else would you paste articles by known racist? You can visit them in their racist hangout, but spare us the pain of regurgitating their vile views here.
Is it not a joke that Charles Moore was accusing the BBC of bias, while writing for the (British) daily mail, a known racist propagandist machine.
Did he forget (unlike the Mail) the editorial independence of the BBC is etched solid in its charter. One of the true media outlet you can actually trust. Are we to rely on Fox News that pass opinion as facts?
Lamenting Israel getting a rough ride in European press is like Tyson sobbing for not getting good press while dishing out his finest uppercuts to Robin Given.
Israel gets good press in America because the 4 big news networks, are owned by Jews hence work in tandem with the mighty Jewish lobby.
Stop reading synopsis of the Israel/Palestine conflict by biased authors, else we'll continue to think you are comic genius.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 2:40pm On Jun 06, 2007
@ Tornadoz!

Please spare us the revisionist drivel!

Tornadoz:

@davidylan Where was the insult?

Donzman:

Some guys are funny, "I believe Israel should pul out and go back to its pre-1967 borders but I do not think Palestine are peace partners". This is stupid, Justice before Peace, when you serve Justice and peace does not reign, then you can make statements like the one above.

Did you fail to see the above highlighted?

Tornadoz:

Why else would you paste articles by known racist? You can visit them in their racist hangout, but spare us the pain of regurgitating their vile views here.
Is it not a joke that Charles Moore was accusing the BBC of bias, while writing for the (British) daily mail, a known racist propagandist machine.

Are you a joke? Only one of the articles i pasted was from Charles Moore! When Afam pastes his anti-semitic drivel that is without bais you thump him on the back. When we post something you quickly label it as racist propaganda! The idea is not merely to look at the author's name and rubbish the article, it is meant for individuals who at least make an effort to READ and DIGEST the article with a view to thrashing out the ISSUES as part of the debate!

Tornadoz:

Did he forget (unlike the Mail) the editorial independence of the BBC is etched solid in its charter. One of the true media outlet you can actually trust. Are we to rely on Fox News that pass opinion as facts?
Lamenting Israel getting a rough ride in European press is like Tyson sobbing for not getting good press while dishing out his finest uppercuts to Robin Given.
Israel gets good press in America because the 4 big news networks, are owned by Jews hence work in tandem with the mighty Jewish lobby.

Can we please STOP posting unproven revisionist crap such as the above if we cant provide irrefutable evidence to back up these bogus claims?

Tornadoz:

Stop reading synopsis of the Israel/Palestine conflict by biased authors, else we'll continue to think you are comic genius.

The least you could do was remain silent if the only thing you could post was to attack personalities! On what basis is Afam's "copy and paste" different from the above? Do authors become biased the minute they say anything pro-isreal?

It is not about bias but about whether the issues raised are valid or not! British journalists and scientists recently voted to boycott Isreali media and universities!
What of the issues raised about Alan Johnston? What if he were captured by Isreali terrorists? Would the Brits/BBC be pretending as if all is well? Absolutely nothing is posted on the BBC website in aid of getting his captors to release him beyond trying so hard not to step on Muslim toes. If Isreli terrorists where the captives we all know Isreal would have been facing an international boycott, UN sanctions and anti-semitic image bashing by the blind forumites here.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 3:28pm On Jun 06, 2007
Donzman:

Some guys are funny, "I believe Israel should pul out and go back to its pre-1967 borders but I do not think Palestine are peace partners". This is stupid, Justice before Peace, when you serve Justice and peace does not reign, then you can make statements like the one above.

I agree, some guys are funny. . . .including the ones who wrote Resolution 242,which demands Isreal withdraw to pre-1967 borders in the context of a comprehensive peace agreement where all the parties renounce claims of belligerency and recognise each other's right of existence.In other words,what I just outlined earlier which requires a peace partner on the other side.

You may prefer a unilateral withdrawal by Isreal but what you prefer is not what is required of Isreal by 242.As Davidylan pointed out,there was no peace prior to the 6 day war.The occupation of the West Bank and Gaza came about because of the belligerence of the neighbouring Arab states.As a result,the Security Council a.k.a funny guys, resolved that for Isreal to withdraw,there must be a comprehensive peace agreement where all the states renounce their belligerence and recognise each other's right of existence.

Here are the 2 main principles as enshrined in the text:    

Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;


PS:This was the Arab position after the 6 day war-http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_khartoum.php
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 3:49pm On Jun 06, 2007
Why else would you paste articles by known racist? You can visit them in their  racist hangout, but spare us the pain of regurgitating  their vile views here.
Is it not a joke that Charles Moore was accusing the BBC of bias, while writing for the (British) daily mail, a known racist propagandist machine.
Did he forget (unlike the Mail) the editorial independence of the BBC  is etched solid in its charter. One of the true media outlet you can actually trust. Are we to rely on Fox News that pass opinion as facts?

When you asserted that Charles Moore was a "known racist",I was taken aback.Naturally,one would expect you to produce evidence of this evil man's "known racist" views.No where did you do that.Instead you went on to inform us that he writes for the Daily Mail.Presumably,we are expected to deduce from the fact that he works for the Daily Mail,that he is a "known racist". Is Baz Bamigboye-a Yoruba man- who works for the Daily Mail,also a racist?He must be,for he works for them.

There was one other little problem with your post.Charles doesn't work for the Daily Mail,the article that Davidylan produced was written  in the Daily Telegraph,the newspaper for which he is Editor-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/06/02/do0201.xml.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Moore_(journalist)

I suppose the Daily Telegraph must also be racist for having as an Editor,someone who does not share your views about the conflict. You may be disinclined towards producing accurate information but you do have a knack for humor.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 12:21am On Jun 07, 2007
@davidylan
The idea is not merely to look at the author's name and rubbish the article, it is meant for individuals who at least make an effort to READ and DIGEST the article with a view to thrashing out the ISSUES as part of the debate!
I wish you had done the same thing with the Levy article.
On what basis is Afam's "copy and paste" different from the above?
Afam don't go rummaging the racist archives to produce works of known racist and fiction writers.
It is not about bias but about whether the issues raised are valid or not! British journalists and
scientists recently voted to boycott Isreali media and universities!
Its a European wide boycott, since the academics, are complicit with the Israeli apartheid govt.
What of the issues raised about Alan Johnston?
What if he were captured by Isreali terrorists? Would the Brits/BBC be pretending as if all is well?
According to the BBC Mr Johnson was abducted by Islamic militants. I've searched the web and can't find any nation called "Islamic militants". Since Israel is a state you can hardly compare them to the occupied land of Palestine. If Jewish militants had done the same thing, Brits would have pressured the Israeli govt to see he was released.
Its not like there was a universal approval in Palestine to Alan's abduction. Most Palestinian journalist have been protesting the kidnapping of Mr Johnson. In the absence of the rule of law due in large part to Israel's occupation what do you expect them to do. Would it make Alan any safer if the British press was advocating fire and brimstone?
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 12:45am On Jun 07, 2007
@I-man
Google Charles Moore and see how much Google coughs up.
See his disdain about Moslem's and Islam
Is the prophet Mohammed a pedophile by Charles Moore http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/12/11/do1101.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/12/11/ixop.html

Am sure you'll be happy he's taking on the Moslem's, forgetting these are the same tactics used by historical racist like Joseph Goebbels. You look the other way because you're not on the receiving end.
The intellectually bankrupt Charles Moore may take on Moslem's today, rest assured it'll be black people next.

I agree, some guys are funny. . . .including the ones who wrote Resolution 242,which demands Isreal withdraw to pre-1967 borders in the context of a comprehensive peace agreement where all the parties renounce claims of belligerency and recognise each other's right of existence.In other words,what I just outlined earlier which requires a peace partner on the other side.

You may prefer a unilateral withdrawal by Isreal but what you prefer is not what is required of Isreal by 242.As Davidylan pointed out,there was no peace prior to the 6 day war.The occupation of the West Bank and Gaza came about because of the belligerence of the neighbouring Arab states.As a result,the Security Council a.k.a funny guys, resolved that for Isreal to withdraw,there must be a comprehensive peace agreement where all the states renounce their belligerence and recognise each other's right of existence.
Your litany of excuses is exactly what made Gideon write the article. Israel refused the American road map to peace (which calls for a 2 state solution) the Saudi and European initiatives, and countless UN resolutions. There won't be peace as long as Israel with its almighty army remains a pariah state. Anyway the balance of power will soon change when Iran becomes nuclear.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 1:04am On Jun 07, 2007
Google  Charles Moore and see how much Google coughs up.
See his  disdain about Moslem's and Islam
Is the prophet Muhammad a pedophile by Charles Moore

This is arrant nonsense.That article was written with regards to a proposed Law that will prohibit remarks viewed as offensive to religion.If asking rhetorically "Is Muhammad a pedophile"? makes you a "known racist"(wondering whether Islam is a race),what about all those who raise questions about one religion or the other.Is Bill Maher a "known racist" because he makes fun of Christianity?Is Chris Ofili a "known racist" because he made fun of Catholicism?   

You claimed earlier that he is a racist because he works for the Daily Mail,when I pointed out your error,you immediately googled his name and came up with this red herring-he is a known racist because he asked whether Muhammad was a pedophile.This from someone who uses Jew in a perjorative manner. You are just clutching at straws.

Your litany of excuses is exactly what made Gideon write the article.  Israel refused the American road map to peace (which calls for a 2 state solution) the Saudi and European initiatives, and countless  UN resolutions. There won't be peace as long as Israel with its almighty army remains a pariah state. Anyway the balance of power will soon change when Iran becomes nuclear.

Seriously,your comments here are laughable.What I pointed out was the implication of Resolution 242.If you understand that Resolution better than me,please explain what you think it means
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 1:21am On Jun 07, 2007
@I-man
This is arrant nonsense.That article was written with regards to a proposed Law that will prohibit remarks viewed as offensive to religion.If asking "Is Muhammad a pedophile"? makes you a "known racist"(wondering whether Islam is a race),what about all those who raise questions about one religion or the other.Is Bill Maher a "known racist" because he makes fun of Christianity?Is Chris Ofili a "known racist" because he made fun of Catholicism?
Was it not his intention to annoy or why else would he make a comment knowing some of his audience will be disgusted when using such pejorative language.
It may be fun to you but this is how the Moslem's viewed it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1373009,00.html
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 1:30am On Jun 07, 2007
Tornadoz:

@davidylan I wish you had done the same thing with the Levy article.

If you bothered to read our replies beyond merely going paranoid as soon as someone came up with an opposing view point, you'd have realised most of the "pro-isreal" viewpoints where based on real issues. Of course as soon as you and Afam's limited knowledge was exposed you all deviated to the time tested tactic of using personal insults to force your oppinions down.

Tornadoz:

Afam don't go rummaging the racist archives to produce works of known racist and fiction writers.

And who are these "known racists" whose racist works you have failed to prove? I quoted from at least 4 (FOUR!) different sources and you claim they are all racists because they prefer not to bury their heads in the sands of denial?

Tornadoz:

Its a European wide boycott, since the academics, are complicit with the Israeli apartheid govt.

This is arrant nonsense! If you had bothered to read the second article i expect you should have come away with more than a mere "it is a European wide boycott"! Does being a "European wide boycott" lend any shred of legitimacy to this show of shame? Why didnt the Europeans boycott the South African media and academia during the apartheid regime?
Where are these "european wide boycotts" when the Sudanese government is busy slaughtering its own citizens? Where are they when Mugabe starves his citizens to death?
When Ahmedinajad TWICE advocated the wiping out of the jewish race, where were these "european wide boycotts"? What if Ehud Olmert had advocated that Iran be wiped off the map, would you and your fellow appologetics not be making this a worldwide boycott?
Why do we cry more than the bereaved when Isreal defends her sovereignity?

The Lebanese army is busy destroying TWO palestinian refugee camps (who by the way are only defending themselves with stones!) and we are yet to hear of sanctions from the UN, The EU is yet to "express their displeasure", Iran is yet to "demand immediate withdrawal", european wide boycotts of Lebanese media and academia is yet to occur and our fellow appologetics here are yet to devote 20 threads to the Lebanese display of "disproportionate force"!
The article is not so much the authors incredulity at the "european wide boycott" but at the double faced nature of its proponents! The same people leading this boycott refused to ratify a decision to censure islamic millitancy on british campuses claiming it will amount to stifling freedom of expression! Are we to take these hypocrites serious?  shocked

Tornadoz:

According to the BBC Mr Johnson was abducted by Islamic militants. I've searched the web and can't find any nation called "Islamic militants". Since Israel is a state you can hardly compare them to the occupied land of Palestine. If Jewish militants had done the same thing, Brits would have pressured the Israeli govt to see he was released.
Its not like there was a universal approval in Palestine to Alan's abduction. Most Palestinian journalist have been protesting the kidnapping of Mr Johnson. In the absence of the rule of law due in large part to Israel's occupation what do you expect them to do. Would it make Alan any safer if the British press was advocating fire and brimstone?

Yet more arrant nonsense! The whole world held Libya to ransom for more than 10 years because of two Libyan citizens implicated in the 1989 Lockerbie bombing. Was the bombing a universal decision of all Libyans?
If those same "islamic militants" were Jewish, would you be typing that drivel? Since when did we start these sick game of allowing terrorists to get away with their crimes on the excuse that palestine is not a nation?
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 1:31am On Jun 07, 2007
Was it not his intention to annoy or why else would he make  a comment knowing some of his audience will be disgusted when using such pejorative language.
It may be fun to you but this is how the Moslem's viewed it

I acknowledge your attempts to divert discussions on this thread from issues to personalities.You seem to view the world through that prism.Look, C.Moore asked a rhetorical question and even defended Mohammed by claiming that it would be anachronistic to describe him as a pedophile in view of the context in which Arabs lived then.

There is nothing in that article which shows that he intended to annoy Muslims.He asked a rhetorical question in an article about new legislation.That does not make him a "known racist".
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 1:42am On Jun 07, 2007
The Lebanese army is busy destroying TWO palestinian refugee camps (who by the way are only defending themselves with stones!) and we are yet to hear of sanctions from the UN, The EU is yet to "express their displeasure", Iran is yet to "demand immediate withdrawal", european wide boycotts of Lebanese media and academia is yet to occur and our fellow appologetics here are yet to devote 20 threads to the Lebanese display of "disproportionate force"!

There was an interesting link discussing the rather deafening silence sorrounding civilian casualties in the current conflict in Lebanon-http://www.pajamasmedia.com/2007/06/sanity_squad_unsung_casualties.php

It all goes to show that much of the hoopla sorrounding civilian casualties in last year's conflict involving Isreal had more to do with anti-Isreal sentiments than sympathy for suffering Lebanese civilians
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 1:56am On Jun 07, 2007
@Davidylan

I said "This is stupid", that isn't an insult and for that you're a slowpoke.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 2:06am On Jun 07, 2007
Donzman:

@Davidylan
I said "This is stupid", that isn't an insult and for that you're a slowpoke.

This is what is left of the intellectual resources of the anti-Isreal camp-personal insults/attacks on personalities grin grin
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 2:46am On Jun 07, 2007
Donzman:

@Davidylan

I said "This is stupid", that isn't an insult and for that you're a slowpoke.

Thanks for the compliments. grin I'm not surprised, afterall its only donzman. cheesy
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by chidichris(m): 11:42am On Jun 07, 2007
it is natural that those who start wars that they cannot fight will always resort to insults.
how come people through their copy and paste ability will come to such a public place issues without enough information to back their copied works.
mosts surprising here is that our so called practising christains have not been abale to think of the promise land.
the exodus of isreal from egypt to,
men are providing facts and figures and reffering your all to issues pasts and presents and the best you can do in response is to call someone a morron.
pls intellectuals should tell us what started the last isreali-lebanese war, where was senioura the lebanese prime minister then and then let us know why this war in lebanon no and what is the current position of the same prime minister?
relate the issue of civilian casaulties to the previous war.
tell us what your understanding of human shield is?
when the truth is told, the inability to reply will resort to insults so everybody should learn to bear with them.
i am only happy that Afam has been cautioned on his copy cats and painting pastes so we will be seeing less of his posts on this forum. he has learnt to keep his documentaries to himself because the forum is becoming too hot for his copy and paste programmes. for those of you who made this work easy for us here via the presentations of endless evidences and proves based on facts and figures, i shift my cap for una- as i say, hip! hip!! hip!!! hurrayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy - bravo my brothers
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Afam(m): 5:58pm On Jun 07, 2007
This dog called chidichris never ceases to amaze me.

Can't someone take it upon himself to brush this man up? He is the most narrow minded pig on this forum.

Funny enough the same animal that freely insult others will be the first to complain when his insults are responded to in kind.

Unlike the unrepentant liar, I make bold to state that I have never insulted anyone while making my point on this forum but I have always (and will continue to do so) responded to insults in kind, no apologies.

So, chidichris the dog, stop lying or take otapiapia to cool off, you are just a complete slowpoke.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 6:05pm On Jun 07, 2007
Afam:

This dog called chidichris never ceases to amaze me.
Can't someone take it upon himself to brush this man up? He is the most narrow minded pig on this forum.
Funny enough the same animal that freely insult others will be the first to complain when his insults are responded to in kind.
Unlike the[b] unrepentant liar[/b], I make bold to state that I have never insulted anyone while making my point on this forum but I have always (and will continue to do so) responded to insults in kind, no apologies.
So, chidichris the dog, stop lying or take otapiapia to cool off, you are just a complete slowpoke.

How Tornadoz go explain away this one? grin grin
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 6:12pm On Jun 07, 2007
Afam:

This dog called chidichris never ceases to amaze me.

Can't someone take it upon himself to brush this man up? He is the most narrow minded pig on this forum.

Funny enough the same animal that freely insult others will be the first to complain when his insults are responded to in kind.

Unlike the unrepentant liar, I make bold to state that I have never insulted anyone while making my point on this forum but I have always (and will continue to do so) responded to insults in kind, no apologies.

So, chidichris the dog, stop lying or take otapiapia to cool off, you are just a complete slowpoke.

I thought seun was banning us for turning "productive debates into a name calling game"? smiley
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Afam(m): 6:17pm On Jun 07, 2007
@I-man/4play,

It is better to respond to insults than to initiate them and it is even more dignifying for one to respond to insults using his known user ID than for one to be hiding under different screen names.

@Davidylan,

I won't cry if I get banned but any dog that insults me will be insulted without any waste of time.

If those that start to insult others cannot be banned then it makes no sense to ban those who respond in kind and that is what I will continue to do.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 8:13pm On Jun 07, 2007
@chidichris
In my earlier debate with you I genuinely thought you were interested in rational discourse not knowing you were even more swayed by biblical leanings than the usual cheerleaders here.
It seems you are not seeking the ultimate answers to the fundamental questions of the middle east (considering you live there).
Paradoxically, it seems it is easier for you to side with the heavily armed Israeli army than stone throwing children, because of your faith.

If you had followed this thread from the beginning, you would have found out some of us believe in syncretic politics rather than the gun boat diplomacy of the usual suspects.

You come across like a raw recruit from the davidylan a.k.a I-man school of (Fox) indoctrination. Hehehe!

Don't you think your religiosity is making you a laughing stock? I believe you are not already too brainwashed beyond salvation?
O'l boy its your fault if you decide to believe people who qualify to be listed in the 100 most decorated "Jewish" cheerleaders. Hehehe, good luck o.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 8:28pm On Jun 07, 2007
@I-man
It all goes to show that much of the hoopla sorrounding civilian casualties in last year's conflict involving Isreal had more to do with anti-Isreal sentiments than sympathy for suffering Lebanese civilians

I see you can't stop using the old Jewish trump card of accusing any one that questions Israels apartheid policy of anti-semitism?
Am not going to let this stifle our debate as it has stunted middle east debates in America for decades.

Tell me you're referring to a different war?
It seems you turned a blind eye to Israel using the latest Sherman tanks and American made B52s to fight an army largely based on volunteers. Was this not the same Israel that flew over 3000 sorties to inflict the worst structural damage to Lebanon?
According to you we are supposed to sympathize with an army Hitler would be proud of. Am sure you did not see the overkill of Israel in that war.
more to do with anti-Isreal sentiments
Were we suppose to empathize with Israel who was using the latest munitions manufactured and supplied by the
militarily superior USA against an opponent using homemade rockets? This is a joke right?
If it was meant as such, you forgot the punchline.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 8:43pm On Jun 07, 2007
@davidylan
If you bothered to read our replies beyond merely going paranoid
I wonder who is paranoid.
You accused someone who merely said "This is stupid" of insult.
Does being a "European wide boycott" lend any shred of legitimacy to this show of shame?

Afraid so, the entire continent of Europe can't be hoodwinked like America.
Why didnt the Europeans boycott the South African media and academia during the apartheid regime?
Maybe Europe has learnt its lesson, but don't forget your friends in the pariah state of Israel helped build that formidable SA apartheid army.
When Ahmedinajad TWICE advocated the wiping out of the jewish race
Saber rattling
What if Ehud Olmert had advocated that Iran be wiped off the map, would you and your fellow appologetics not be making this a worldwide boycott?
Israel has the wherewithal, Iran does not and you know this
The Lebanese army is busy destroying TWO palestinian refugee camps (who by the way are only defending themselves with stones!) and we are yet to hear of sanctions from the UN,
Lets look at that logic.
If your son(Hezbollah) hits you(Lebanon) in front of your employer(UN) and your employer(UN) feels disgusted and refused to pay your wages who will surfer? Is it not Lebanon that will surfer if their was sanction?
Yet more arrant nonsense! The whole world held Libya to ransom for more than 10 years because of two Libyan citizens implicated in the 1989 Lockerbie bombing. Was the bombing a universal decision of all Libyans?
If those same "islamic militants" were Jewish, would you be typing that drivel? Since when did we start these sick game of allowing terrorists to get away with their crimes on the excuse that palestine is not a nation?
How do I explain Palestine is not a recognized state, so can't be held responsible for the many terrorist activities there. Who would you hold responsible? Is it Hamas, Fatah, Islamic jihad or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
If Islamic Jihad was to claim responsibility for a terror outrage, how do you punish them without inflicting pain on the innocents as well. Are all these different groups not fighting each other as we speak? For the uptenth time stop comparing a member of the united nation to a people who are fighting for freedom.
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 1:32pm On Jun 09, 2007
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Iman3(m): 4:50pm On Jun 09, 2007
I see you can't stop  using the old Jewish trump card of accusing any one that questions Israels apartheid policy of anti-semitism?

Strange. . for someone who uses the term,"Jew" perjoratively, and who just attacked attacked Charles Moore for asking a rhetorical question and purpotedly working for the Daily Mail

Were we suppose to empathize with   Israel who was  using the latest munitions manufactured and supplied by the
militarily superior USA against an opponent using homemade rockets? This is a joke right?
If it was meant as such, you forgot the punchline.
This is besides the point.The question is,why isn't there the same hoopla now over the death of civilians in Lebanon as was the case last year.Presumably, you don't care less about the Lebanese now than last year.

Nothing has changed except the identity of the "killers".Last year,it was Isreal,this year Lebanon.Could that explain the difference in reaction?
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 5:06pm On Jun 09, 2007
Tornadoz:

Tell me you're referring to a different war?
It seems you turned a blind eye to Israel using the latest Sherman tanks and American made B52s to fight an army largely based on volunteers. Was this not the same Israel that flew over 3000 sorties to inflict the worst structural damage to Lebanon?
According to you we are supposed to sympathize with an army Hitler would be proud of. Am sure you did not see the overkill of Israel in that war. Were we suppose to empathize with Israel who was using the latest munitions manufactured and supplied by the
militarily superior USA against an opponent using homemade rockets? This is a joke right?
If it was meant as such, you forgot the punchline.

This is further proof that many of those who post here have no idea what they are talking about. Lebanon is currently being suplied with US weapons to fight the islamic millitants in Beirut!

Lebanon to receive weapons shipment from U.S.
BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Lebanese forces battling Islamic militants inside Lebanon will be resupplied by a shipment of U.S. military ammunition, which is expected to arrive within two days, senior U.S. officials told CNN on Thursday.

In the meantime, both sides flatly rejected calls to surrender.


Oga Tornadoz, what is your new obfucating excuse?

While Isreal flew over 3000 sorties you forgot to indicate that Hezbollah using "home made" weapons launched 13000 rockets into Isreal during the same time period, apparently the damage to Isreali infrastructure and civillian deaths make no difference to you.

Calling Iranian and Syrian ammunition "home made weapons" is stretching the truth a little too far. Please try posting only things you are fully sure about. Perhaps you are noticing the "overkill" of the Lebanese army now!
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 5:07pm On Jun 09, 2007
@I-man
Strange. . for someone who uses the term,"Jew" perjoratively, and who just attacked attacked Charles Moore for asking a rhetorical question and purpotedly working for the Daily Mail
Have they stopped being Jewish. You and I know when I say Jew, I don't mean being tight fisted.
Nothing has changed except the identity of the "killers".Last year,it was Isreal,this year Lebanon.Could that explain the difference in reaction?
This is an internal matter between the Lebanese factions,you can't compare this internal conflict with last years war when Israel deployed the best the IDF could muster. Would you invite the UN to the Niger delta, considering there's a lot o killing there?
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Tornadoz(m): 5:07pm On Jun 09, 2007
They want peace but not at any prize , can't see Syria taking the bait. Why now for the moribund govt of Ehud Omert?
A govt that have very little support at home, a govt whose foreign minister is actively gunning for the number one position. First reaction by Syria would be to accept, but the small print makes for uncomfortable reading. For instance why should Syria stop its support for Hezbollah? Is Israel
thinking of moving back into Lebanon again? Am sorry but the Jewish state can't be trusted.

P.S
Isn't it strange that Syria (a member of the axis of evil) is now being wooed by the US and Israel.
With the latest Iranian missiles all pointing at Tel Aviv, is this a way to checkmate Iran?
Re: Israel Doesn't Want Peace By Gideon Levy by Nobody: 5:12pm On Jun 09, 2007
Tornadoz:

This is an internal matter between the Lebanese factions,[/b]you can't compare this internal conflict with last years war when Israel deployed the best the IDF could muster. Would you invite the UN to the Niger delta, considering there's a lot o killing there?
Sometimes some responses make you wonder. Is this a war between "lebanese factions"? A war involving a recognised terrorist organisation and the Lebanese army? Is the lebanese army now a "faction"?
What is the difference between this war and the war between Isreal and Hezbollah? A state army vs a recognised terrorist organisation except this involved borders!

Tornadoz:

[b]For instance why should Syria stop its support for Hezbollah?
Is Israel
thinking of moving back into Lebanon again? Am sorry but the Jewish state can't be trusted.
This is amazing! Someone is actively calling for increased support for a terrorist organisation by Syria? shocked

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11)

How Ukraine Conflict Could Affect African Nations / North Korea Nuclear Test Will Be Part Of Fight Against U.S. / Oscar Pistorius: The Final Countdown

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 162
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.