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THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE - Religion - Nairaland

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Snake Pastor Dies After His Snake Bit Him In Church / 'serpent-handling' West Virginia Pastor Dies From Snake Bite / The Serpent, The Snake (1) (2) (3) (4)

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THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 2:09pm On Oct 11, 2010
What is the spiritual significance of the snake.

I ask this because religious, spiritual, mythical and legendary lore all across the world seem so interwoven with this creature - almost to the degree of universal obsession.

I am certain that there is no other creature that has been so worshiped and reviled by humanity. Many people in modern times consciously or unconsciously associate it with evil. On the other hand, many cultures worship it and regard it as sacred. Snakes occupy a very high status in Hindu traditions.

At all events most people seem to have strong views regarding snakes. There is a wealth of tradition across the globe casting snakes in terms of rites of fertility, renewal, rebirth, se.xuality and sensuality, gods, goddesses and demons, in a fashion that no other creature can rival.

Can we perhaps discuss the varied views regarding the spirituality or significance of the serpent.

Hardened materialists, your valid objections already noted beforehand and accepted, so please leave we the superstitious to this discussion, thanks.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by VALIDATOR: 2:58pm On Oct 11, 2010
When most dangerous animals attack,they do it violently and mostly noisily but the snake most likely is quiet and dangerous and unlike most dangerous animals,can easily be found in residential areas. It may have been this realization that made ancient civilizations all over the world to attach the title "invisible but dangerous enemy" to the snake.

So,it was revered because it was an enemy that had easy access to you,is quiet and can harm you.

However,recent knowledge has made us to know that vectors and pathogens are quieter enemies that kill more people worldwide than snakes. Hence,there is really nothing mysterious about snakes or scorpions for that matter.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 3:06pm On Oct 11, 2010
HI Validator - I see that for you it is simply a question of fear. That is certainly a valid point. However there are doubtless many dangerous creatures possessing the danger of venom which are also most quiet and insidious. No such creature has ever been deified in the fashion that the snake has - or involved in legend to any significant extent to the degree that the snake has.

From your example, one would expect creatures such as scorpions and giant tarantulas to be worshiped and made into legend in the way that the snake has. That has not happened.

Again the factor of fear does little to explain the traditions regarding the association of the snake with fertility, se.xuality, sensuality, rebirth, renewal and a host of other notions interwoven within man's spiritual and material consciousness. I am aware that the shedding of the snake's skin forms one of the grounds for its association with rebirth and renewal but that alone is insufficient to demystify the obsession.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Negro_Ntns(m): 3:44pm On Oct 11, 2010
Deepsight,

The human head has both a spiritual and a temporal aspect. In its spiritual aspect it attains to infinity but in its temporal existence it is definite.

The snake has both a spiritual and a temporal symbolism. In the spiritual it is called "serpent" and in the temporal it is named "snake".

The serpernt is a companion to the infinite human head. . . . .it agitates the head to self-confrontation.
The snake is a companion to the definite human head. . . . .it agitates that head against other heads in the temporal dimension.

The snake is also the symbol of healing. But healing itself is a depiction of balance or homeostasis in the physical (temporal) sense. This is when the body is in a state of physical survival. What is the depiction of healing in a spiritual sense?

Spiritual balance occurs when the two heads, the infinite and the definite, are congruent and harmonic. . . when the action of one is not counter to the path that the other has taken.

I wish to contribute that there are other animals that have similar symbolism but do not approach that of the snake. They are Bull, Eagle, Ram. . . .and so on.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Negro_Ntns(m): 3:46pm On Oct 11, 2010
. . . oh forgot to mention that:

the rituals of sex itself act as a harmonic balancer (healing) or for a transcedental rebirth or renewal.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 3:50pm On Oct 11, 2010
Negro Ntns - Your contribution is profound.

Negro_Ntns:


I wish to contribute that there are other animals that have similar symbolism but do not approach that of the snake. They are Bull, Eagle, Ram. . . .and so on.

I seem to recall that some of these animals are said to be the forms of certain animal-beings that inhabit the steps of the throne of GOD - as described within the Grail Message.

Perhaps M_Nwankwo/ Justcool can enlighten us as to what primordial form/ tendency the snake represents.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 3:52pm On Oct 11, 2010
Negro_Ntns:

. . . oh forgot to mention that:

the rituals of sex itself act as a harmonic balancer (healing) or for a transcedental rebirth or renewal.

. . .Indeed ritual Reproduction has formed an integral part of many ancient religious systems, and I recall advancing the idea of the balancing powers of s.ex on this forum. I was almost stoned to death.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 5:19pm On Oct 11, 2010
It is certainly one of the most revered symbols in the world. From the biblical Nehushtan to the the African Damballah.

Is it really because a snake can shed it's skin and become 'born again' that it is associated with rebirth/renewal?

Even where snakes are revered why is it that it is still considered necessary to slay a serpent to release the waters of life? Why is the slaying of a serpent related to fertility. Why did Yahweh fight with the Leviathan?

Why must Knights slay the dragon to release their beloved damsel? Ah, Perseus! Poor Andromeda!!

Why is the symbol so ambivalent? Good and Evil. Good or Evil? Despised and Worshipped. despised or worshipped? What determines mutual exclusivity? When is it applicable and when not?

Medusa's blood is a nourishing poison. Perseus learnt that the blood from one side of her neck was a panacea that could heal all ills, yet the same blood from the other side of her neck was the deadliest of poisons. This has now been transferred to Athena.

But truly the snake is a healer. Hence the Caduceus. Nehushtan the fiery serpent is the cause of and the solution to the problem.

Then we must not forget Kundalini cos this same Hot monster is our bane and our salvation. But it is right one way and wrong the other way. Death one way yet life the other way. At Ajna we find that mutual exclusivity is an illusion and One ness (or infinity?) or all dichotomies is . . . what is it . . . damn, something was on the tip of my tongue . . . oh well, better luck next time.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by InesQor: 5:33pm On Oct 11, 2010


There is no snake that is spiritual. No, not one.

If we must argue that a snake or snakes is/was or are/were spiritual, we must a priori define the term spiritual. Let's back up a bit please. grin

#okBye
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 5:50pm On Oct 11, 2010
InesQor:



There is no snake that is spiritual. No, not one.

If we must argue that a snake or snakes is/was or are/were spiritual, we must a priori define the term spiritual. Let's back up a bit please. grin

#okBye

Indeed, and what is your definition of Spiritual? After all you've made the definite statement that 'There is no snake that is spiritual'.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by InesQor: 6:20pm On Oct 11, 2010
^^^

grin

My definition of "spiritual" is "that which a snake cannot be".  tongue

Come on, lighten up. . . (didn't you see the smileys?)
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 6:30pm On Oct 11, 2010
InesQor:

^^^

grin

My definition of "spiritual" is "that which a snake cannot be".  tongue

Come on, lighten up. . . (didn't you see the smileys?)

I don't want to lighten up, I'm not in a light mood right now. angry angry cheesy When Christ likens his death to the raising up of the serpent are we to understand that there is no spiritual understanding of his death. After all a snake cannot be spiritual.

My definition of spiritual is a form that is not materially manifest.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Negro_Ntns(m): 6:43pm On Oct 11, 2010
. . .  grin

I started in my earlier post to relate the Moses/Pharaoh confrontation when the former's staff became a serpent and swallowed the illusions created by the latter's preists but I figured Pastor was sure to mention it so I did not.  

That miracle itself was a plague. . . .it was the lead-in to all the other pestilences that went into Egypt.

When the spiritual Ori is afflicted, the individual is plagued with all kind of losses.    

There is a lesson in this and it is well narrated in several Odus in Ifa.  When the spiritual Ori and the temporal Ori are in conflict, the individual need divination.  Divination will identify where the incompatibility is emanating from and guide on the appropriate corrective step to take to reinstate balance and harmony.  


When we discuss these topics I suggest that we attach or associate the practical lesson or its application to life so people are not only acquiring knowledge but are also gaining wisdom through their own individual encounter and circumstance.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by InesQor: 6:53pm On Oct 11, 2010
Mr Pastor AIO, in my previous posts, each one was a joke.

undecided undecided undecided undecided


But since you ask, still, I must say my view.

(1) Snakes, physically and essentially, are as spiritual, to the same manner or token, as any other creature; from green grass to elephants.

Spiritual, to me, means that which may not be regarded as mundane (i.e. not found in the ordinary course of events), and is not-so-regarded because it is experienced intangibly with respect to the ordinary course of events.

So my point in (1) above is that snakes are not necessarily especial in any regard. What is "spiritual" about the matter is what the snake represents in each of those worldviews.

Speaking for Christianity, the snake is used to represent a manifestation of sin.

All things are spiritual to one extent or the other. Because everything has the capacity to be experienced intangibly with respect to one sphere of life or the other.

Snakes are spiritual. Hoorah. As spiritual as the very mice they feed on.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 6:57pm On Oct 11, 2010
Deep Sight:

. . .Indeed ritual Reproduction has formed an integral part of many ancient religious systems, and I recall advancing the idea of the balancing powers of s.ex on this forum. I was almost stoned to death.

. . . but remember, I jumped in front of you and shielded you from the stones.

Negro_Ntns:

. . . oh forgot to mention that:

the rituals of sex itself act as a harmonic balancer (healing) or for a transcedental rebirth or renewal.  

To be reborn first you have to die.  Die a little death with me.  Le petit mort.  what does that mean again?


Negro_Ntns:

. . .  grin

I started in my earlier post to relate the Moses/Pharaoh confrontation when the former's staff became a serpent and swallowed the illusions created by the latter's preists but I figured Pastor was sure to mention it so I did not.  

That miracle itself was a plague. . . .it was the lead-in to all the other pestilences that went into Egypt.

When the spiritual Ori is afflicted, the individual is plagued with all kind of losses.    

There is a lesson in this and it is well narrated in several Odus in Ifa.  When the spiritual Ori and the temporal Ori are in conflict, the individual need divination.  Divination will identify where the incompatibility is emanating from and guide on the appropriate corrective step to take to reinstate balance and harmony.  



One truth, yet so many illusions.  One Ori, yet so many afflictions.  God bless our two feet.  May our feet take us to the place our Head purposes to go.  Opebe Awo ese lo dia fun ese.  Opebe!  Awo of the feet.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 7:10pm On Oct 11, 2010
InesQor:

Mr Pastor AIO, in my previous posts, each one was a joke.

undecided undecided undecided undecided


Snakes are spiritual. Hoorah. As spiritual as the very mice they feed on.

And my response was a semi joke. Hence the 2 frowns and 1 dumbass grin.

I don't think that the title of this thread is a very good one. It should perhaps say, the symbolic significance of the Snake, not the spirituality of the snake. But never mind. Can you tell us if there are any spiritual nourishment to be gleaned from the tale of 3 blind mice?

While you're on that one I'll explain another.
Hickory Dickory Dock
The mouse ran up the clock
(this pertains to the striving of the ego that is trapped in the temporal world of tick tock time.)

The Clock struck one
The mouse ran down
(At one, or rather the Oneness of Affinity, all is revealed and there is naught left but to retrace your steps down the clock and scurry away into your little hole where a juicy piece of cheese awaits)
Hickory Dickory Dock
(Hickory dickory dock is a very potent word of power that must not be utter aloud 3 times otherwise there'll be dire consequences. I will not go into the full implications of this incantation).
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 7:56pm On Oct 11, 2010
@Deepsight the devil is in the details (read your barely visible footnote)
I ask this because religious, spiritual, mythical and legendary lore all across the world seem so interwoven with this creature - almost to the degree of universal obsession.


I reason it is safe to say your observation is so because all religions have a singular origin (not a source or original religion like the Muslims believe) but a base understanding of spirituality that elevates reality beyond and outside the ordinary range of human experience or understanding; providing common set of beliefs that allow man to appreciate or cultivate a way-of-life to live by (often wrongly classed as religion). The common spiritual significance of the Snake or Serpent (IMHO, the evil persona of the snake) across religions, races and lores from a logical standpoint indicate singular spiritual origin.

What I find interesting that of all points of reference and actual experiences across several myths, lore, legends and religion, it is only in the Bible that the Serpent (Snake) is perceived or adjudged to have played a non-benevolent role by revealing Wisdom to Earths first humans.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?"

For this mind-opening act He   was punished in this fashion

Genesis 3:14-15 The LORD  God said to the serpent,  “Because you have done this,  Cursed are you more than all cattle,  And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, (that is for another thread wink ) And dust you will eat  All the days of your life; And I will put enmity  Between you and the woman,  And between your seed and her seed;  He shall bruise you on the head,  And you shall bruise him on the heel.

This is further reinforced by the Catholic institution where there are statues and paintings of the Blessed Mother, Mary, shown with one foot upon the head of a snake.  We were told in Catholic school that she was crushing the snake, symbol of evil.  If you look closely at some of those statues and paintings, it doesn't look as if anything so violent as crushing is going on.  Snake seems friendly, sometimes affectionately wrapped around Mary’s ankle. grin

Later on we see the Snake's significance in the Magick-play of the Pharaohs Magicians and Moses rod-turned-snake. in later passages it is used to heal snake-bitten Israelites as quoted below

Numbers 21:4-9 And The Lord said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
 
In other references outside the Bible the Serpent has rich spiritual history, reverence and purpose ranging from creation, protection, wisdom, fertility, medicine, guidance into the after-life in Greek Mythology. Interestingly another commonality that is often seen is the connection between the Woman and the Snake from Eve in the Garden of Eden to the famous Medusa of Greek legend, Minoan Snake Goddess, Snake Witches of Sweden, Blessed Mary an so forth.

My most strongest volition is to accept that a Spiritual connection exists between the Snake (Material or Spiritual Symbolism) and GOD at the instance of creation and till this day, wild as it seems, the Serpent is not the Devil. but then again i am straying from the topic.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Kay 17: 8:42pm On Oct 11, 2010
The reputation of the snake is owed mainly to its predatory character, and forged its way into every culture, of which Nigeria is no exception. The Hausa Myth, is most prominent.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by InesQor: 9:02pm On Oct 11, 2010
@Pastor AIO; My response:

"Three blind mice, three blind mice. See how they run! See how they run! They all ran after the farmer's wife, she cut off their tails with a carving knife! Have you ever seen such a sight in your life, as the three blind mice?
"

They were 3 cos thats the smallest military unit that can form a phalanx in its simplest form, i.e. An arrowhead. So with one charging ahead and one on either flank, they took the war to the farmer's wife. By continuous instruction at the "mouse-pad" they knew a woman squirms when they sees a  mouse, let alone 3 charging ones. Thus was their confidence.

Considering the fact that she held a carving knife, she must have been dealing with choice meat. The blind mice, egged on by their motivational leader, ran after the wife. One may argue that she was scared but thats irrelevant. She was poised to chop off three tails in rapid succession (It cant be a simultaneous cut if they had an arrowhead form). Thats perfect coordination to me.

Now, mice are generally considered blind because, most especially the young ones, they squint in bright light, but they see keenly in the dark. I presume this was their "coming of age" adventure (experienced mice know better than charging at a human being in broad daylight), led by the bravest of the three who geometrically should have lost the longest length of tail in an arrowhead formation, being closest within reach and receiving first blow.


Lessons?
1. Showoff always causes more damage than benefit on the long run. Mouse 1 learnt the hard way.

2. Beware of the seemingly helpless or weaker enemy who is not flustered by your threats. (s)He has more incisive plans than you can imagine. Jesus said, & I paraphrase, "which man going to war does not first of all weigh the odds? So he knows to surrender if necessary before losing his inferior army? Or which man will start building a house without counting the costs and the house gets halfway, abandoned and the joke of the society?" (Many 9ja people do this actually).

3. Master the art of understatement, never be on the offensive & if you must, make the adversary believe they started it. In all, try to make peace with all men. Never place all your cards on the table at once. Stealth might have worked better for our dear mice. Understatement. Dont be the one who stirs up war i.e.  envy and jealously at school reunions and office parties because you are loudly oppressing everyone with your progress.

Stop making cheap enemies. Be like the Ijebu landlords of yore Yorubaland who would come in tattered clothes, prostrate to greet the unsuspecting tenant and would pray "May God give me the wealth to stay in a place like this" while the tenant gloats at him in his agbada, wrinkling his nose at the wretched creature. Only for the tenant to find out years later that the dirty old man is his landlord. Then, dizzy, he searches round for a stool. And finding none, he falls flat on his bum.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 10:35pm On Oct 11, 2010
lagerwhenindoubt:


Later on we see the Snake's significance in the Magick-play of the Pharaohs Magicians and Moses rod-turned-snake. in later passages it is used to heal snake-bitten Israelites as quoted below

If Moses was involved in a game of snakes with his powers propelled and derived from the Hebrew God, it seems odd to me that the snake is yet defined as inherently evil by Judeo-Christian Tradition.
 
In other references outside the Bible the Serpent has rich spiritual history, reverence and purpose ranging from creation, protection, wisdom, fertility, medicine, guidance into the after-life in Greek Mythology. Interestingly another commonality that is often seen is the connection between the Woman and the Snake from Eve in the Garden of Eden to the famous Medusa of Greek legend, Minoan Snake Goddess, Snake Witches of Sweden, Blessed Mary an so forth.

I am particularly interested in the association of the snake with that which is termed "evil female sensuality."

I happen to be a man of dreams: such that I see many strange and perplexing visions when I sleep. Often my dreams reveal ordinary or significant life events which occur in reality shortly after the dreams. This has been a pattern throughout my life.

Other than this, the dreams are many times absolutely fantastical and consist of strange and colourful imagery which i do not recognize from my lifetime on this earth. I realise that those images hail from other realms which I may have traversed in the past and will traverse in the future.

The most striking of my dreams are the dreams which locate me in a strange void that makes me wake up in a flurry asking myself repeatedly: where am I. Who am I? What is this place? What is this world? What is God and how could I exist? - - - It is often a very frightening and dislocating experience which I cannot describe but which I think I have mastered such that each time it happens, I answer to myself: " I am a living spirit from God and I am in a world to experience. . . "

Anyhow, that na tori for anoda day. What I purpose to tell you today is the odd dream I had some years back regarding snakes. Anyway I should also say that regardless of how strange my dreams may be, I often awake with a very clear understanding of the meaning of the dream. I often notice that if I do not stop to take a moment to ingest that meaning, it becomes lost after a few moments and I CEASE to remember the meaning of the dream which I apprehended upon waking up.

Any way sha, this was the dream. I was lying down on my bed and I saw two snakes in my bedroom. One snakes was a giant absolutely black thing and it lay on the bed beside me literally in my bosom. The other snake was a giant WHITE snake, with unbelievably beautiful patterns on its back. It lay quietly by the door, far away from me. That was all there was to the dream. However I remember admiring the white snake and thinking to myself how unbelievably beautiful it was.

I awoke after that and instantly (this will sound freaking odd but na true o) i could hear a voice in my inner ear and the voice said to me: "the white snake will not approach until the black snake has left your bed."

In that blinding instant I understood the white snake to be representative of two things in my life: wealth and romantic love; and I ALSO understood the black snake to be representative of two things in my life: the wanton love of lewd feminine se.xuality and my absolute profligacy with my resources thereto.

I seem to have been battling the black snake against the white snake all my life: but being a fervent artist, I know the patterns on the back of the white snake will win the day with my spirit.

I apologize that I write these personal inanities: I think its just an odd moment that made me write them.

My most strongest volition is to accept that a Spiritual connection exists between the Snake (Material or Spiritual Symbolism) and GOD at the instance of creation and till this day, wild as it seems, the Serpent is not the Devil. but then again i am straying from the topic.

Deep. Profound. I wish to discuss these in a subsequent post. I have notions regarding this. Something about primordial chaos versus primordial order.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:22pm On Oct 11, 2010
[list]
[li]"Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the snake and the snake didn't have a leg to stand on".[/li] cry
[/list]
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 11:01am On Oct 12, 2010
InesQor:


(1) Snakes, physically and essentially, are as spiritual, to the same manner or token, as any other creature; from green grass to elephants.

Why do you suppose that neither green grass nor an elephant is said to be the agent of temptation in Eden?

Why that particular creature, the snake?

Speaking for Christianity, the snake is used to represent a manifestation of sin.

Let's do a philosophical dive here: if the snake is said to lead mankind to the knowledge of good and evil - from which stand point they could have stretched forth their hand to eat of the Tree of Life - the first action rendering mankind as "one of us" - in the words of the supreme deity as conveyed in the bible - and the second potential action holding the possibility to render man 'eternal' in the words of same deity. . .do you think it is apt to view the snake as representative of sin?

Could the snake, taken in this context, not be representative of something even more deep and subtle than that. . .for he leads man to the knowledge of good and evil, rendering man as "one of us". . .and leaving man in a position to eat of the "Tree of Life". . .

Profound powers, and a powerful trajectory, I would say - which is greatly belittled by stating it to be merely "a manifestation of sin."

In this remit, I will also urge you to consider if indeed the fallen angel called Lucifer is the same entity as the snake referred to in Eden?


Particularly when you consider the punishment pronounced by the Genesis deity on the snake: which I am not certain you will readily associate with punishment for Lucifer.

Snakes are spiritual. Hoorah. As spiritual as the very mice they feed on.

Perhaps this is why mice are indicated as agents of temptation, and are said by your bible to be the creature whose head will be crushed by the heel of the bastion of salvation? Come on.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 11:44am On Oct 12, 2010
The best-known and most popular hero in the mythology of the ancient Near East, Gilgamesh was a Sumerian* king who wished to become immortal. Endowed with superhuman strength, courage, and power, he appeared in numerous legends and myths, including the Epic of Gilgamesh. This epic, written more than 3,000 years ago, seems to be the earliest work of literature. It is an adventure story that explores human nature, dealing with values and concerns that are still relevant today.



Search for Utnapishtim. After Enkidu's funeral and burial, Gilgamesh sets out on a long and hazardous journey to seek a man named Utnapishtim. Utnapishtim had survived a great flood and was granted immortality by the gods. Gilgamesh travels through various strange lands and meets people who tell him to end his search and accept his fate as a mortal. Refusing to give up, Gilgamesh finally reaches the sea and persuades a boatman to take him across the waters to the home of Utnapishtim.

Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh the story of the Great Flood and of the boat that he constructed to save his family and various animals. He then offers the hero a challenge: if Gilgamesh can stay awake for seven days, he will be given the immortality he desperately desires. Gilgamesh accepts the challenge but soon falls asleep. When he awakes seven days later, he realizes that immortality is beyond his reach, and with sorrow, he accepts his fate. Utnapishtim tells him not to despair because the gods have granted him other great gifts, such as courage, skill in battle, and wisdom.

[b]In appreciation of Gilgamesh's courageous efforts to find him, Utnapishtim tells the hero where to find a plant that can restore youth. Gilgamesh finds the plant and continues on his journey. Along the way, while he bathes in a pool, a snake steals the plant. This explains the snake's ability to slough off its old skin and start afresh with a new one. [/b]Disappointed and tired, but also wiser and more at peace with himself, Gilgamesh returns to Uruk to await his death.

The last part of the Epic of Gilgamesh, thought to be a later addition, tells how the spirit of Enkidu returns from the underworld and helps Gilgamesh find some lost objects he received from Ishtar. Enkidu also tells his close friend about the afterlife and describes the grim conditions of the underworld.


http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Fi-Go/Gilgamesh.html
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 11:54am On Oct 12, 2010
deep Sight's dream reminds me of the pillars of Solomon's temple. Jachin and Boaz.
Jachin and Boaz are the pillars in the masonic temple, modeled after King Solomon’s Temple. Boaz meaning in strength and Jachin he establishes or stability; Boaz on the left and Jachin the right. Solomon’s temple faced the East. Boaz faced the North and Jachin faced the South. Boaz was the great-grandfather of King David and Jachin was the high priest who aided in dedication of Solomon’s temple.

The two pillars are at the entrance of every Masonic temple. They also played a role in the order of the Golden Dawn. In the Golden Dawn rights Boaz was black and Jachin was white. The two representing the principles of positive and negative in much the same way as the yin and yang. These pillars could be further expounded upon in that they are not actual pillars but part of the tree of life or the Cabala.


http://www.excommunicate.net/jachin-and-boaz-a-coincidence-of-pillars/

Joachim and Boaz

1 Kings 7:13-22 (KJV) describes part of the architecture of Solomon's Temple relating to the Columns placed in front of the temple.
13. And king Solomon sent and fetched Hiram out of Tyre.

14. He was a widow's son of the tribe of Naph'tali, and his father was a man of Tyre, a worker in brass: and he was filled with wisdom, and understanding, and cunning to work all works in brass. And he came to king Solomon, and wrought all his work.

15. For he cast two pillars of brass, of eighteen cubits high apiece: and a line of twelve cubits did compass either of them about.

16. And he made two chapiters of molten brass, to set upon the tops of the pillars: the height of the one chapiter was five cubits, and the height of the other chapiter was five cubits:

17. and nets of checker work, and wreaths of chain work, for the chapiters which were upon the top of the pillars; seven for the one chapiter, and seven for the other chapiter.

18. And he made the pillars, and two rows round about upon the one network, to cover the chapiters that were upon the top, with pomegranates: and so did he for the other chapiter.

19. And the chapiters that were upon the top of the pillars were of lily work in the porch, four cubits.

20. And the chapiters upon the two pillars had pomegranates also above, over against the belly which was by the network: and the pomegranates were two hundred in rows round about upon the other chapiter.

21. And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Joachim: 1 and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz. 2

22. And upon the top of the pillars was lily work: so was the work of the pillars finished.
1 Kings 7:46

1. In the plain of the Jordan the king cast them, in the clay ground between Succoth and Zarethan.
Jachin (Joachim) means "He shall establish." Boaz means "In it is strength."

Jachin (Joachim) means "Justice." Boaz means "Mercy."

Commentary:

The Building of the first temple of Israel (King Solomon's Temple) was the first major public works organized and executed by the United Kingdom. The two columns as described in scripture would have qualified to be one of the wonders of the ancient world, the shear size and magnitude in scale of the project made the technology that went into making these columns an engineering marvel.

The two columns in there original form represented an artistic metaphor for the balance between the male and female aspects of nature. They make a statement about the creative nature of god in the human equation as the divine union between the male and female. The Pomegranate and its seeds are a reference to the union and seed of the intimate act. The water lily (Lotus) capitols are a reference to the females vulva and the column itself represents the male phallus. In this metaphor it is demonstrated how God embraces our human sexuality but places the emphasis on its divine nature in the creation and evolution of his kingdom.

The creative aspect of God's plan on earth places its empathizes on/in the generational histories represented in the scriptures. The classic example of this are the opening lines to the New Testament which outline the genealogy of the Christ. If you have spent some scholastic time trying to put these genealogies into a Julian calendar you will understand the scriptural emphasis on the hereditary nature of the Biblical plot.

http://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/ark_covenant/Columns_at_the_Temple_of_Solomon_Joachim_and_Boaz.htm
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:31pm On Oct 12, 2010
Listen on to this conversation between two descendants of vipers:

Snake #1:  "Are we poisonous?"  cool

Snake #2:  "I don't know. . . . Why asking?"

Snake #1:  "I've just bitten my tongue."  shocked shocked shocked

(The old thnake serpent just shot himself in the foot? no wonder he had no legs to stand on) grin grin grin
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by InesQor: 12:50pm On Oct 12, 2010
@Deep Sight:

It is, what it is. It happened with a snake. If it had been a gerbil, it would have been what it now is. The fact that it was a snake does not make it in any wise "spiritual", or to be considered symbolically [/b]especial compared with other creatures PRIOR to the fall.

You see, the problem for you, is that for me, I can converse on topics like this, philosophically or scripturally from the Bible. If you want a purely philosophical conversation, I can discuss: skimming across various religions and worldviews but not delving into any, rationalizing on topics as I understand it (You know this, as we have done in times past. An example was your Oneness of Infinity thread with maths, and another example is InesQor's thread on Jacques Derrida's deconstruction and the Meta-Ethics of Good and Evil.). But if you want a [b]Biblical (scriptural) discussion that runs across many worldviews
, maybe Pastor AIO can help you there. So, don't ask me about Christianity, and then inject things into Christianity that are not there, and expect me to defend the scriptures in a way that will make you happy and make sense to all worldviews. That's utterly irrational.

Maybe in another worldview it's different, but in Christianity, nothing is "spiritual" about the snake anymore than it applies to the grass that was in Eden. The Bible records it as "crafty" or "wily". That is a far cry from spiritual. Spiritual has a much deeper meaning than this trite context. There is no need to argue this moot point. The Biblical scriptures are clear on that. Any other Christian on this forum will probably tell you the same thing I just did. Ask away, ad lib.

In the first context of the snake's appearance, it is a manifestation of sin. This context is also used in other appearances of a snake where it offers a symbolic relevance. e.g. Moses' Nehushtan, and Christ's analogy of Nehushtan. Moses' snake competition, in my opinion, is not of symbolic import beyond demonstrating superiority. It was probably a snake because of the Egyptian culture.

How is it a manifestation of sin? Sin, scripturally, is a deviation from God's course. And that EXACTLY is what Lucifer started right there, personified in the snake, whether it made the man and woman knowledgeable or not.

I think this "manifestation of sin" business is elementary, as far as the Bible goes. If you want a scriptural explanation that satisfies all worldviews and makes them purr in contentment, then please look further down the road. It's not here. At least not with me.

All this long text for what should be rather obvious to everyone.  I would rather be found explaining away another Nursery Rhyme, gleaning it for life principles. At least I have fun while Im at it.  smiley

#okBye
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 12:56pm On Oct 12, 2010
^^^ Apologies; you seem to have misapprehended my post altogether. Never mind, and apologies for disturbing you.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by InesQor: 1:04pm On Oct 12, 2010
^^^

@Deep Sight:

Yeah. Actually I wanted to approach, and contribute to, the thread philosophically. So I said no snake is spiritual, and if it must be said to be spiritual, "what does the spiritual mean with respect to the snake?" So, asking "What is the spiritual significance of the snake?", why not ask "What is the spiritual significance of the Oak tree?"

But then Pastor AIO came along and said, knowing that I am a Christian, because Jesus Christ used the snake in an analogy, are we to say there is no spiritual significance to his death? Off-tangent IMHO. Thus compelled to discuss scripturally, I defined what the snake means with respect to Christianity. And he saw my point. The thread is a misnomer.

No problems. I doubt I misapprehended anything, though.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Deep Sight(m): 1:13pm On Oct 12, 2010
Pastor AIO:


I don't think that the title of this thread is a very good one. It should perhaps say, the symbolic significance of the Snake, not the spirituality of the snake.


InesQor:

The thread is a misnomer.

Poetic licence, friends. That's what's in the title. Notice the spelling chosen for "Spirituali[b]tie[/b]". . .

I doubt I misapprehended anything, though.

Okay. Was the Eden Snake Lucifer? How can we contextualize the punishment given to that snake as against Lucifer then?
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by InesQor: 1:23pm On Oct 12, 2010
@Deep Sight:

The curse upon the Eden Snake spanned both spiritual and physical realms, just like Eden itself was an intersection of spiritual and physical realms.

The physical attributes of the curse on the physical snake dealt accordingly with Lucifer in the spiritual as well, because the snake was used by the devil to carry out counsel against God.

When God said the snake will crawl on its belly, that's equivalent and simultaneous spiritual import as the decree placed upon Lucifer to be the spiritual lowlife skunk that he now is. The woman's seed crushing his head refers to the triumph of Christ as much as it refers to InesQor crushing a physical snake's head in his  neighbour's backyard, etc.

Taking the Eden event literally, there were four entities involved in the fall. Adam, Eve, Lucifer and the snake that represented Lucifer. Each one got its own punishment.
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 2:27pm On Oct 12, 2010
InesQor:

@Deep Sight:

The curse upon the Eden Snake spanned both spiritual and physical realms, just like Eden itself was an intersection of spiritual and physical realms.

The physical attributes of the curse on the physical snake dealt accordingly with Lucifer in the spiritual as well, because the snake was used by the devil to carry out counsel against God.

When God said the snake will crawl on its belly, that's equivalent and simultaneous spiritual import as the decree placed upon Lucifer to be the spiritual lowlife skunk that he now is. The woman's seed crushing his head refers to the triumph of Christ as much as it refers to InesQor crushing a physical snake's head in his  neighbour's backyard, etc.

Taking the Eden event literally, there were four entities involved in the fall. Adam, Eve, Lucifer and the snake that represented Lucifer. Each one got its own punishment.

grin  grin this snake business is becoming quite a handful.  grin IMHO i think when we try to comprehend a concept on the basis of its origins, we fall for the easy trap of subjectivity and boundaries that the origins define no matter how crude or complex that origin is perceived. It is called thinking inside the box these days.

For all who follow subjective reasoning for the purpose of cementing the course of an argument or discussion, i wish you luck. A discussion is intended to create awareness and understanding, bring about wisdom and put a concept through the rigor of unconventional thought (coming from various schools of thought). We can discuss on one wave-length (looking thru preceding posts obviously) but surely we can comprehend on several wave-lengths (unless we are less-than-human) Symbolism loses weight (intellectually, structurally, philosophically etc) when we dwell on the symbol (snake, dog, cat etc) rather than the origin, meaning and purpose for that symbol. SIN is elementary business like InesQor points out but from what we learned, Lucifer existed long before Earth was created, he was exiled to the lower heavens hence the lewd business of observing man from his position and sleeping with women to procreate giants that walked the earth yores ago. His punishment has been served from the day of his rebellion. If we take the Bible too literally we miss the meaning of the event, just as we take the Tree of Life to be an actual tree in a physical/spiritual garden (not a source of revelation) and the apple an elixir of enlightenment.(not an act of self-awareness) What I am trying to say is there is meaning beneath the face of events documented in Religious or Holy Books across several cultures of the world. the origin, meaning and purpose is what should be of interest not the actual sequence of events, its actors or moral-of-the-story.

Genesis 3:14 The LORD  God said to the serpent,  “Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle,  And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go,
suggests the Smurf walked on all fours at some point.  grin At this point it becomes meaningless to dwell on the origins of the Snake as a creature or symbol used by Lucifer (even as a tool of speech). Lucifer may as well have communicated to Adam and Eve just like he did with Jesus or as he does with man in modern times (through BB  grin)
Re: THE SPIRITUALITIE OF THE SNAKE by Pastor AIO: 3:07pm On Oct 12, 2010
Is this thread nonsensical?

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