When i look at what the Anglican church, The Catholic, Methodist and even the Baptist church have done around the globe i feel very disappointed with our Nigerian created denominations, i think they have failed their congregates and even the nation as a whole.

I can't really pin point one single charity organisation that is known all over the world that is founded by our Nigerian church not talk of affordable education, affordable hospitals, institutions of integrity, community service etc. The worst are buildings in their Head Quarters, absolutely pathetic compared to that of the VATICAN, ST PAULS CATHEDRAL IN LONDON, ENDINGBURGH CATHEDRAL, NEW YORK CATHEDRAL etc.

What's really the problem? is that black people lacks the ability to create great things or is just lack of commitment to the real gospel and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

[i]Though i thank God for Ps. Adeboye, Ps Kumuyi and Dr D K Olukoya probably they mostly surrounded by non achiever[/i]s.

sexy74:

@ poster

do you know how many years this other churches you mentioned have stayed?

The nigerian denomination are coming up gradually.

Years doesn't really matter here it is the[i] founding principles and protocols[/i] adopted from the beginning that counts. A church doesn't need to be all over the world before starting something credible that will benefit the society. There are over 100 RCCG CHURCHES in the UK yet not a single school or hospital is built by them. When the Anglican church was on mission to Nigeria they started with only 1 church each in a Town even in a City and yet they manage to build schools and hospitals for our parents to attend. why can't these Nigerian denomination do the same?

My guy i understand you are in UK but here in Nigeria church business is highly lucrative, you don't pay any tax, you dont have to buy and sell all you need to do is train yourself in communication skills that's all and the sky is the limit.

I have a land at Agbado, Lagos if you are willing to start one

@sexy74

Are you[b] Pastor sexy Dayo[/b] of "All miracles international church at Egbada Lagos" ?

as business organizations (which they actually are) they are not failing at all. they're reaping the maximum of profits and financial benefits, or what do you say of MOGs now owning private jets; tell me if thats failure

if i begin to highlight the evils that has come from the vatican, church of england, the catholic church etc through the ages, there'll not be enough space here. ever heard of the crusades, the inquisitions, the middle ages when jews, and others of different faith were persecuted. these guys murdered more than hitler and stalin combined. even though they're all an evil to society i prefer 419 churches to those who cordoned and aided slavery and murdered millions

@ alfin

no am not .

Mudley313:

as business organizations (which they actually are) they are not failing at all. they're reaping the maximum of profits and financial benefits, or what do you say of MOGs now owning private jets; tell me if thats failure

Agreed! i like u for that

Mudley313:

if i begin to highlight the evils that has come from the vatican, church of england, the catholic church etc through the ages, there'll not be enough space here. ever heard of the crusades, the inquisitions, the middle ages when jews, and others of different faith were persecuted. these guys murdered more than hitler and stalin combined. even though they're all an evil to society i prefer 419 churches to those who cordoned and aided slavery and murdered millions

Fa fa foul, the above were mere speculations with no theoretical facts. I once thought these churches contributed to slavery but hey they rather fought slavery. Dont allow the Jehovah witness to deceive you about the catholics , in fact during WWI AND WWII the catholic played more charitable role than any instituions and by the way have you read the movement of John Wesley, William willberforce etc these leaders of church denomination to stop slave trade. However i can agree with you on occultism in some catholic churches but of course there will always be judas in any righteous gathering. In constrast to false indoctrinated belief many slaves in those days were rescued by the churches and educated i'e Bishop Ajayi crowther, Martin Luther King 1 and many more. Parliaments decides slave market not the church.

Nigerian churches are worst, their members suffers in high doomly darkness, hunger, high level of poverty, rituals name it,

It's all business not for charity and salvation.

Whenever topics like this come up somebody is ever ready to dive into the archives and bring up incidences of more than 200 years past.

Institutions of between 2000 to 500yrs old cannot be free of scandals, open your mind.

Some Churches are not even up to 20yrs old and full of scandals.

The past is gone, and if it is the only defense you have, then it would always be there for you to shield yourself with anytime a finger points at you.

Loosen up.

alafin:

Fa fa foul, the above were mere speculations with no theoretical facts. I once thought these churches contributed to slavery but hey they rather fought slavery. Dont allow the Jehovah witness to deceive you about the catholics , in fact during WWI AND WWII the catholic played more charitable role than any instituions and by the way have you read the movement of John Wesley, William willberforce etc these leaders of church denomination to stop slave trade. However i can agree with you on occultism in some catholic churches but of course there will always be judas in any righteous gathering. In constrast to false indoctrinated belief many slaves in those days were rescued by the churches and educated i'e Bishop Ajayi crowther, Martin Luther King 1 and many more. Parliaments decides slave market not the church.

smh. you most definitely never took history class in college

*clears throat*

VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)

Ancient Pagans

*As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples
were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.

*Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.

*Examples of destroyed Temples the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea,
the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the
Heliopolis.

*Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis
were famous as "temple destroyer."  *Pagan services became
punishable by death in 356.

*Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed,
because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]

According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all
Christian teachings, "

*In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.

*In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on
demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]

*The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to
pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a
Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

Mission

*Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to
convert to Christianity, beheaded.

*Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church
taxes between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain
5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany

*Battle of Belgrad 1456 80,000 Turks slaughtered.

*15th century Poland 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by
Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]

*16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and
civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable
beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common
of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of
the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother
of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what
sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte
off from their bodies, and should bee laied on the ground by eche
side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused
"greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde
fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".

Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.

Crusades (1095-1291)

*First Crusade 1095 on command of pope Urban II.

*Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96
thousands.  *9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish),
thousands respectively.

*Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered
(number of slain unknown)

*After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and
60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) [/b]killed.

[b]Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the
enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their
bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.

*Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the
subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were
eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis.

*Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish,
muslim, men, women, children).

(In the words of one witness "there [in front of Solomon's temple]
was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood
of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people
marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of
gratitude"

*The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote "It was impossible to
look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay
fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the
blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies
and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of
all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the
victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous
sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that
within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels
perished."

*Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following
summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of
decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone.

*Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the
name of Our Lord Jesus Christ".

*Fourth crusade 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims
unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian.

*Rest of Crusades in less detail until the fall of Akkon 1291
probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas
alone).

Note All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.

Heretics

*Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus
and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany

*Manichaean heresy a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice
birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics)
was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between
372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims.

*Albigensians the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians.

The Albigensians (cathars = Christians allegedly that have all rarely
sucked) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept
roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control.

Begin of violence on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single
pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209
destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including
Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends)
20,000-70,000.

*Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed.

*subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half
the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were
exterminated.

*After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search
and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the
stake 1324. *Estimated[b] one million victims[/b] (cathar heresy
alone)

*Other heresies Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and
many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some
Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of
persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including
the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).

*Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220
burnings.

*John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was
burned at the stake [/b]in 1415.

*University professor B.Hubmaier [b]burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna.

*Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for
seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori
(Rome) on 2/17/1600.

Witches

*from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several
thousand.

*in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars
several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or
hanged.

*incomplete list of documented cases

The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times

Religious Wars

*15th century Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain.

*1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all
English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into
action).

*1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million
rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain.

*1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed [/b]on command of[b] pope
Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee.

*17th century Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader.
After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off
his head, his hands, and his genitals, and then dumped him into the
river [, but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for
the fish, they hauled it out again [, and] dragged what was left ,
to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and
crows'." [SH191]

*17th century Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany roughly
30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were
found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still
sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]

*17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant) at least 40% of
population decimated, mostly in Germany.

Jews

*Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by
Christians. Number of Jews slain unknown.

*In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed
on command of[b] bishop[/b] Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The
first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river
Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388.


*17. Council of Toledo 694 Jews were enslaved, their property
confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized.

*The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who
would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed.

*First Crusade Thousands of Jews slaughtered [/b]1096, maybe 12.000
total. Places Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons),
Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund,
Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations
Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech)

*Second Crusade 1147. [b]Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully,
Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France).

*Third Crusade English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90.
*Fulda/Germany 1235 34 Jewish men and women slain.

*1257, 1267 Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton,
Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated.

*1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed.

*1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51
towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland.

*1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France[b] (two
thousand) burned. [/b]

*1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly
burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians
in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians).

*1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered.

*1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were
slain, 25,000 sold as slaves.  Their identification was made
easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the
age of ten had been forced to wear.

*1492 In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than
150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way
6/30/1492.

*1648 Chmielnitzki massacres In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.

(I feel sick , ) this goes on and on, century after century, right
into the kilns of Auschwitz.

Native Peoples

*Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy
Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as
a means to propagate Christianity.

*Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered
in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people
who, he said, "ought to be good servants , [and] would easily be
made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no
religion."

While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as
many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian
nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when
they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it."

*On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the
declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the
ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If
the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding),
the requerimiento continued

"I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully
enter in your country and shall make war against you , and shall
subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church , and shall do
you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse
to receive their lord and resist and contradict him."

*Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of
Massachusetts Bay Colony "justifieinge the undertakeres of the
intended Plantation in New England , to carry the Gospell into those
parts of the world, , and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome
of the Ante-Christ."

*In average two thirds of the native population were killed by
colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great
sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the
Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay
Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of
the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we
possess."

*On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population
(Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of
abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000
dead.

*The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and
spanish raids.

*As one of the culprits wrote "So many Indians died that they could
not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere.
The stench was very great and pestiferous."

*The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and
burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar
urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to
heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven
was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell."

*What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness

"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties
, They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the
ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time
in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles, then, straw
was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
[SH72]

Or, on another occasion

"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and
from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and
mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain
like brute beasts, Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn
to pieces by dogs."

*The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of
Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half
before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives
were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves
from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus
"the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively
liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". "In less than
the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of
millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had
been exterminated."

*"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of
Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The
exquisite city of Tenochtitlán [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]

*Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors
likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of
Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida). *"When the 16th century ended,
some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time
probably more than[b] 60,000,000 natives were dead."[/b] [SH95]

Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of
America.

*Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without
native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians.
Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in
comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults
rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers
"Their Warres are farre less bloudy, ", so that there usually was "no
great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares
and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared
women and children.

*In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the
(generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave
Jamestown - "being idell , did runne away unto the Indyans," - to
live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).

"Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed 'Some he
apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles,
others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course
these elegant measures were restricted for fellow englishmen "This
was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those
who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people
of Virginia" methods were different "when an Indian was accused by an
Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English
response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire
community" down. [SH105]

*On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of
the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the
"Peqout War". The killers were New England Puritan Christians,
refugees from persecution in their own home country England.

*When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by
Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite
the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.

Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after,
because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of
the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and
burned their villages.

The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote
"And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon
their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very
Flames, where many of them perished , God was above them, who
laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making
them as a fiery Oven , Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen,
filling the Place with dead Bodies" men, women, children. [SH113-114]
*So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts,
and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].

*Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was
no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow

"Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly
destroy them, " (Deut 20)

*Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the
bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his
readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children
must perish with their parents". [SH114]

*Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The
colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to
devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own
words "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them."
(This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)

In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was
near. [SH107-119]

*The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in
servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking
for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle
and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]

*Other tribes were to follow the same path.

*Comment the Christian exterminators "God's Will, which will at last
give us cause to say How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his
Beauty!"

"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the
Dust!" [TA]

*Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. "Peace treaties were
signed with every intention to violate them when the Indians 'grow
secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in
Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, &
cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]

*In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless
Indian men, women and children. [SH107]

*In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some
"600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor
of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a
'barbeque'." [SH115]

*To summarize Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki
people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than
half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of
98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years
later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog
people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to
1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least
44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed.
[SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes
living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All
this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred.
And the carnage was not over then.

*All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it
was before the frontier age actually had begun.

*A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas)
were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds
by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed
directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.

*In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even
today.

during WWI AND WWII the catholic played more charitable role than any instituions

yea right



[img]http://bigrab.files./2010/09/hitler-cardinal.jpg[/img]

over the past 20 years churches in nigeria have deviated from helping the poor building schools etc and like everything else in nigerian society everything is money.