Hello,

Probably this quetion might have had been asked in this Forum in the same way with mine or the other. That  reveales to me an idea of including another word like Post, in the title to show that this one is a new development.

It's in the other forum I'd asked a question as: is Jesus really god? Some moths passed, but unfortunately ended up without a single satisfied answer that can convince me to do believe that yes he is or not.

Due to that aforesaid misfortune, I start looking for that answer myself and now came across some other biblical verses that lead me to sink into more mire.
Verses:
"Hear o Israel: the lord our God is one lord"(Deuteronomy 6:4)
"Why callest me good, there is only one good that is God"(mark 10:18)
"Worship the lord your God, and serve him only"(Mathew 4:10).

My question here is that: if he-jesus is a God, why did he say that we should serve only one Lord that is God? who is that one God? Didn't that seem as muslims' God-Allah?

What is your view my fellow sincere seeker of truth? Please lets share.

Thats my worry too. They have been telling me that Jesus is God and I have been asking them questions on their sayings but rather than provide answers, they claimed that babs is deriding their faith. I wonder why would asking questions on someone doctrines turned to another thing. If they dont want questions to be asked, they should stop saying it rather being unable to defend same

Seems you both are delusional. This topic has severally been dealt with here:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.0.html

muhsin,

see the thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.448.html#msg840687

babs787:

Thats my worry too. They have been telling me that Jesus is God and I have been asking them questions on their sayings but rather than provide answers, they claimed that babs is deriding their faith. I wonder why would asking questions on someone doctrines turned to another thing. If they don't want questions to be asked, they should stop saying it rather being unable to defend same

Blabs787, thanks so much for "worrying" on our behalf! I wonder why you are worried though? Is it a "worry" that is borne out of compassion for our "sinful, polytheistic" ways or out of a decietful islamically inspired campaign of callumny against the christian faith?

muhsin:

Due to that aforesaid misfortune, I start looking for that answer myself and now came across some other biblical verses that lead me to sink into more mire.
Verses:
"Hear o Israel: the lord our God is one lord"(Deuteronomy 6:4)
"Why callest me good, there is only one good that is God"(mark 10:18)
"Worship the lord your God, and serve him only"(Mathew 4:10).

I can only hope that you are asking this question from a deep sincerity to meet with the Saviour and Captain of your soul. Indeed Jesus Christ IS GOD, he says in His word: I Peter 2: 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

It is impossible for you to understand the divinity of Christ from a position of skepticism, unbelief and suspicion. Unless your spirit is illuminated with the Spirit of God to open your inner eyes to His truth, you will always stumble at the very words that has brought grace and salvation to many.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If you think that you can understand God's word from the islamic persepective you are gravely mistaken. That is why the likes of blabs787 are forever asking "questions". The things of the kingdom are spiritually discerned, without His spirit you will remain in your darkness.

To answer your question, indeed even Christ's disciples were as confused as you to the extent that one of them eventually became bold enough to ask:
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Here was the reply Jesus Christ gave to him:

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

I hope that answers your question.

davidylan:

I hope that answers your question.

Nope. . . it does not, will not, cannot ever be, and never has been in the past. Why? Because they lost their own books! 

hasnt blabs787 found his lost "books" yet? This allah sef, how could he have been so careless as to allow all the "revelations" that were revealed to get lost?

[img]http://www.thesmilies.com/smilie-generator/image/cyan%5E_%5Earial%5E_%5E0%5E_%5E0%5E_%5EBut+Allah+knows%2C+and+you+know+not%5E_%5E.gif[/img]

@topic

yes

my dear it is obvious dat ur read Bible like novel or any other book. pray be4 reading d Bible 4 holy spirit 2 help u understand. if d reason u re reading d Bible is 2 proof wrong or as a critics, u wll see evidences 2 defend watsoeva u wnt 2. bt mind u, is inspired by God

Jesus is God - John 1:1.

No

Keep arguing, it won't change nutin.

You should as well add Isaiah 9:6 - and pray tell. . . where una keep prophet Isaiah in Islam?

Gwaine i dey go sleep

i go reply you tomorrow

Okay. Sleep well. If you no see me for the next few days, I go return.

@all


If Jesus is God, please provide answers to the questions below:


1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no one’s son. How could Jesus have the attributes of sonship and divinity altogether?


2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn’t Jesus clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John 5:37: "And the father himself which Has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"?


3.Christians say that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God, Son of Man, Messiah, and "savior". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible as Son of Man. Jesus spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any person who followed the Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in the Jewish tradition and in their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus 4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14). "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God’s anointed" and not "Christ", and "Cyrus" the person is called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "savior", in II KINGS 13:5, other individuals were given that title too without being gods. So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when the word son is not exclusively used for him alone?


4.Christians claim that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one in the sense of nature when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father are one". Later on in John 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers and himself and God as one in five places. So why did they give the previous "one" a different meaning from the other five "ones?


5.Is God three-in-one and one in three simultaneously or one at a time?

6.If God is one and three simultaneously, then none of the three could be the complete God. Granting that such was the case, then when Jesus was on earth, he wasn’t a complete God, nor was the "father in Heaven" a whole God. Doesn’t that contradict what Jesus always said about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord ? Does that also mean that there was no complete god then, between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrection?


7.If God is one and three at a time, then who was the God in heaven when Jesus was on earth? Wouldn’t this contradict his many references to a God in Heaven that sent him?


8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrect ion?


9.Christians say that: "The Father(F) is God, the Son(S) is God, and the Holy Ghost(H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G, then it follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the statement suggests that F ¹ S ¹ H (meaning, "not equal". Isn’t that a contradiction to the Christian dogma of Trinity in itself ?


10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell the man who called him "good master" not to call him "good" because accordingly, there is none good but his God in Heaven alone?


11.Why do Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three when Jesus says in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as many places as yet in the Bible?


12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being a Christian, why didn’t Jesus teach and emphasize it to the Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained it in detail to the people.


13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word for the first occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God" or "God" with a capital "G", while the Greek word for its second occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which means "a god " or "god" with a small "g". Isn’t this dishonesty and inconsistency on the part of those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn’t such quotation in John 1:1 recognized by every Christian scholar of the Bible to have been written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before Jesus and John?


14.Wasn’t the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer to others as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of this world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See , I have made thee (Moses ) a god to Pharaoh"?

Thank you.

@ Babs787

I like how you're searching. Would you agree with me that Jesus is God or He is not? It has to be one of the two situations, correct?

If your search is genuine as I expect it is, then the truth will bear fruit. I desire to take a more conciliatory approach rather than have to insult and attack.

You may not be aware of it but the role of Sonship is something that Jesus took on. As you correctly implied, being a son would suggest that one is in a submissive role.

Is the sonship of Jesus the only reasoning you're going on to disprove Jesus' is God? 

Wouldn't the Deity of Jesus rests on whether or not He was created? If He weren't then how could He not be God, since only God alone is Creator and not a creature.

For us to view Jesus and to fully understand who He is, wouldn't we need to look at His pre-earthly existence using the bible to see what was said of Him before?

I am submitting to you that the Hebrews dealt directly with the Son. It was the Son who spoke to Moses in the burning bush. It was the Son who spoke to Abraham about the destruction of Sodom. It was the Son who dealt with the prophets of old. It was the Son who wrote the 10 commandments on ount Sinai.

I could go on,   





Bless.

@topic,

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

Some of your replies manifested the truth that some of you guys didn’t read my post/question and fathom it very well. However, I’d quoted some verses again like:

You have never heard His voice, nor seen His face (john 5:37)
No one can see me and stay alive (exodus 33:20)
No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him (1 timothy 6:16)

Didn’t the Jews at his time, his family and his followers SEE Jesus and HEAR his voice?
As you can figure out, all the aforementioned verses are talking about God.
Then who is who? Who really is that ONE God?

By the way, my fellow Christians, don’t, please I beg misunderstand my critics as some allready did. It’s in the Holy Bible I read a certain verse that makes me to stand up and look for the actual[b] fact [/b] about all that I’ve so far asked. i.e.: seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free (john 8:32).

…………waiting…….and God bless you.

@muhsin,

I'd very much appreciate an answer from you to my question:

Telly B:

@topic,

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

Thanks.

@Telly B

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

Hope you are not trying to avoid my questions ? We muslims do not worship Jesus and do not regard him as God.Hope I have answered your question?

babs787:

Hope you are not trying to avoid my questions ? We muslims do not worship Jesus and do not regard him as God.Hope I have answered your question?

Nope, you haven't answered but circled round it. Here again:

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

@Telly B

I will answer your question the way you want it but please answer my questions above

@babs787,

If you don't have answers, move on. The games of "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST" is for kids. Thanks.

@Telly B

Insert Quote
@babs787,

If you don't have answers, move on. The games of "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST" is for kids. Thanks.

Ok, please answer my questions ooo

Telly B:

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

Can you please answer. Thanks.

Telly B,
I think babs787 have answered your question, and answered it correctly. What more do you want? Lets be fair!
Thanks

muhsin:

Telly B,
I think babs787 have answered your question, and answered it correctly. What more do you want? Lets be fair!
Thanks

@muhsin,

I think that's a convenient way of saying: "I think babs787 has no answers!"

Please read the question again and then re-read babs' answer:

Question: "is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?"

babs: "We muslims do not worship Jesus and do not regard him as God."

Now muhsin, was I asking about what MUSLIMS do or not do about Jesus??

I would very much appreciate an honest answer from Muslims. If this question cannot be answered, then none of the questions posed by your Muslim apologists are worth reading.

This question has no basis.

It only makes sense when you assume that Islam and christianity share a common context, which they do NOT.

Islam reasons within the contexts of the Quran and the Hadith

Christianity reasons within the contexts of the Bible and theological tradition (subject to sectarian variation)

Arguing will solve nothing, will simply cause more hate to be directed from both sides.

Instead of fitting square pegs in round holes, why not direct your ideologial debates at issues that affect our daily lives, in which a shared context can be found.

That way, if a Muslim were to convince a Christian that his religion has a better grasp on realistic issues, he may win a convert, and if a Christian were to convince a Muslim that his religion has a better grasp on realistic issues, he may win a convert also.

But saying 'My religion says Prophet Isa is NOT GOD! All who assocate human beings with God are commiting SHIRK!!!! BUUUUUURN~!!!!!!!' and raving 'Jesus is God the Son! Repent now or BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRNNN!!!!!!' is a wate of time because no-one is gaining anything.

@dakmanzero,

If that is how you read issues, you missed it by a million miles. The direct accusation that informs my question has to be examined; and the Muslim either proffers a direct answer as well, or continue to bask in the misreadings that are epitomized in your post.

The question has a basis. When an honest answer comes, you will see it.

Certainly, people who professed to have been Christians deconvert to Islam; yet the questions being asked by many have led them out of Islam and to the redemption found in Jesus Christ. Some of those questions are being discussed here, and people who can read issues well can see what they are all about.

'deconvert'? what the Hell does that mean?!

The direct accusation that informs my question has to be examined; and the Muslim either proffers a direct answer as well, or continue to bask in the misreadings that are epitomized in your post.

buh??!?? 

The question has a basis. When an honest answer comes, you will see it.

Hmmm. I imagine I wasn't clear.

Take this example: A yoruba traditionalist asks an ancient viking, "Is Thor really the god of thunder? He couldn;t be because the god of thunder is Shango!!!!!!"

A nonsensical question, abi? Because the participants share no common ground. Their religions exist in completely different realms of truth.

The same applies to Islam and Christianity. In Islam,, Jesus is NOT God. In Christianity, he IS. Simple.


EDIT:

Tellyb, I think I may have stumbled on the source of confusion. My statement on basis is directed at the OP question (Is Jesus God) and not your later question about false gods.

THAT question definitely has a basis ONLY IF you are asking the Muslims a question within the context of their own religion.

that is, you are saying 'according to your religion, are they worshipping a false god?' NOT 'IS THE GOD OF THE CHRISTIANS ABSOLUTELY FALSE??!?!?!??!'. The first form of the question is a genuine request for education about Islam, and the second form of the question is not a question at all, rather it is rhetoric designed to instigate an argument.

@dakmanzero,

dakmanzero:

'deconvert'? what the Hell does that mean?!

To convert from one's professed faith to a different one. Duh!

dakmanzero:

Hmmm. I imagine I wasn't clear.

Take this example: A yoruba traditionalist asks an ancient viking, "Is Thor really the god of thunder? He couldn;t be because the god of thunder is Shango!!!!!!"

A nonsensical question, abi? Because the participants share no common ground. Their religions exist in completely different realms of truth.

The same applies to Islam and Christianity. In Islam,, Jesus is NOT God. In Christianity, he IS. Simple.

If it suits your ideology to parry it in such a simplistic manner, why the sweat to confuse yourself further? The debates and exchange of ideas between Muslims and Christians on the Forum is not that simplistic.

dakmanzero:


EDIT:

Tellyb, I think I may have stumbled on the source of confusion. My statement on basis is directed at the OP question (Is Jesus God) and not your later question about false gods.

THAT question definitely has a basis ONLY IF you are asking the Muslims a question within the context of their own religion.

I wonder how you rushed into posting your previous one without first seeking to grasp the issues initially.

dakmanzero:

that is, you are saying 'according to your religion, are they worshipping a false god?' NOT 'IS THE GOD OF THE CHRISTIANS ABSOLUTELY FALSE??!?!?!??!'.

You read it that way; and now you find it is not!

dakmanzero:

The first form of the question is a genuine request for education about Islam, and the second form of the question is not a question at all, rather it is rhetoric designed to instigate an argument.

This summation simply shows you have no clue about the issues here. And I would simply ask you to hold your breath and wait to see what this is all about.

I offer my posts to Muslims to help them go right back into their own books to see the issues they've been pretending do not exist. That is precisely what my question is all about; and those who have circumvented it in pretentious answers would be happy to note that people like you are simply oblivious to the core concerns being pursued here.

@Tellyb.

There's no need to be rude. And please try not to make yourself sound silly in an attempt to appear smart- I can tell from your posts that you are a reasonable intelligent guy, but you risk labelling yourself otherwise if you jump to conclusions while accusing others of same.

1)

There's no such word as deconvert. Look it up in any dictionary. It is a word invented by religious extremists to somehow denigrate the choices of people who choose to convert from their own chosen religion. The correct word is convert. Using the word deconvert labels you as biased. I highlighted it for exactly that reason- had you chosen to look up the definition before responding to me you would have caught on and saved face.

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deconvert


2)

Since I have determined that you are quite intelligent, I will ignore the second response on the grounds that you are probably assuming that I was providing an analogue to *your* question, and not the OP. I am however interested in hearing your take on the OP, since it is in fact, the issue at hand.


3)

Grasping the issue is not the case. I was responding to the OP, not to you. I have a perfect grasp of whatever issue I choose to raise, thank you very much. At no point in my post did I specifically refer to you or your question. This thread *does* have a topic afterall.


4)
Contention is between OP and TellyB's question, not between two interpretations of tellyb's question. I highlighted both possible interpretations for the reason that you responded to in 5,


5)
Once again I will excuse this response. I'm assuming that once you re-read, you will come up with a different response.



**
I don't see why someone will be happy to discover that there are people who have no clue about what his concerns are, especially if those concerns are religious!