~Bluetooth:

Interesting ! Does that amount really bridge the gap between the high and the low ?

If the gap is completely bridged,then, it is not Capitalism. And, it does not foster the spirit of competition; which is inherently human.

Why do you really want this gap bridged. You must be ready to bridge the gap in classroom performance, too. LOL.

ola olabiy:

It is nothing but capitalism with some control.

Intervention, if you like.

Intervention borne out of guilty  conscience ! Oh why do we have treat these poor people like this,oya take this small welfare !!!!!!

~Bluetooth:

Intervention borne out of guilty conscience ! Oh why do we have treat these poor people like this,oya take this small welfare !!!!!!

Oya, take this small welfare and stay at your Ajegunle. Don't disturb us at Lekki.

Ok?

ola olabiy:


If the gap is completely bridged,then, it is not Capitalism. And, it does not foster the spirit of competition; which is inherently human.

Why do you really want this gap bridged. You must be ready to bridge the gap in classroom performance, too. LOL.

I don't see it as a competition.What I'm saying is everybody should have equal opportunity.who is afraid of a classless state ? The richmen because they won't see anybody to oppress.Take a look at Nigeria for instance,we have people that have stolen under the cover of capitalism,enriched themselves while the poor working under them suffer.It's slavery.

ola olabiy:

Oya, take this small welfare and stay at your Ajegunle. Don't disturb us at Lekki.

Ok?

You've now seen the evil in the system.class stratification ! Rubbish

~Bluetooth:

I don't see it as a competition.What I'm saying is everybody should have equal opportunity.who is afraid of a classless state ? The richmen because they won't see anybody to oppress.Take a look at Nigeria for instance,we have people that have stolen under the cover of capitalism,enriched themselves while the poor working under them suffer.It's slavery.You've now seen the evil in the system.class stratification ! Rubbish

There are rich men in the UK. The poor here don't feel 'that' oppressed because the state helps them out. Food and shelter are catered for by the state. But, the gap is still there. And, that human,competitive spirit is alive.

~Bluetooth:

.You've now seen the evil in the system.class stratification ! Rubbish

Social strata is not completely bad. It helps to drive the determined.

Katsumoto:

Can you think of one field that humans are engaged in that is perfect? The imperfection in the system can be found in man.

Right. That is the reason why Man needs to try as much he can to regulate and control it. We cannot allow our greed to run amok. The proponents of uncontrolled capitalism believe that greed will self correct itself, well the evidences suggest otherwise.

~Bluetooth:

in the system.class stratification ! Rubbish

A system needs classes to be optimal.

People are not equal. We should not try to treat them equally.

Classes should be based on pertinent abilitiies, not on familial privilege or any other rubbish like tribe/race/etc.

An optimal system would have robust class mobility to let the best rise and the weaker take a back seat but supported.

I am ruthlessly in support of such.

@Katsumoto I don't agree with your arguement that China practice capitalism.What they practice is a blend of the two. Socialism and capitalism with some blend of flavours distint to them.
So, i'll suggest other countries should evolve their own system which is peculiar to them and can work for them.Not to follow Americans type of capitalism which is heavily flawed.

Capitalism! No country practices capitalism. Most countries on the planet have mixed economies. Perhaps capitalism is practiced somewhere outside this universe. I heard there are people existing in the multiverse which is billions and billions of light years away from us.

Though capitalism is exploitative but modern society cant live without it. Capitalism is the pivotal of a growing economy and if jettisoned could be deteriorating.

at the above,
If man can design a system called capitalism surely man can also provide an alt to that same system or not?

to me, the market crash in 2008 and the whole fact that big businesses needed financial bailout from the government made a lot of people question the invincibility and strength of american capitalism. The system seem very opportunistic to me. When things are going great, they claim there is no need for regulation that the invincible hand of the market will regulate itself. but when smokes and flames start showing up, they run to the govt for assistance. and the whole fact that the US subsidizes some of its industries while it scolds other countries for doing d same.

as many posters pointed out, the US system is not pure capitalism. but it seems that rather than govt regulating it, industries are using the govt as puppet for their schemes. lobbyists (aka legalized corruption), financial bailout etc

I guess what I think will be ideal is if corporate/ industry power and influence is curtailed to an extent.

To the best of my knowledge, it is a contraption which ensures that the majority keeps complaining, while at the same time, a few others steal away their wealth and ensure that the majority never agree among themselves on who among the few should constitute the next set of theives, ba ragi ba 'kari, no more, no less,

ahhhhh capitalism. the bane of our existence. the vehicle to rappe and pillage the earth of its resources in a constant endless strive and desire to satisfy our insatiable bottomless greed until that time in which the earth becomes vulnerable enough to withstand natural disasters and then* KABOOMMMMMMMMMMM*. ARMAGEDDON.
aahhhh capitalism. the tool of the devil to fast track us to anarchy, despair, misery, hopelessness, pain and destruction *sigh*

Sagamite:

A system needs classes to be optimal.

People are not equal. We should not try to treat them equally.

Classes should be based on pertinent abilitiies, not on familial privilege or any other rubbish like tribe/race/etc.

An optimal system would have robust class mobility to let the best rise and the weaker take a back seat but supported.

I am ruthlessly in support of such.

Then such system should be able to consider the welfare of the weak that contribute the labour in production.

Irk:

Though capitalism is exploitative but modern society cant[b] live without it.[/b] Capitalism is the pivotal of a growing economy and if jettisoned could be deteriorating.

Sorry sir.The monkey work,baboon chop Policy has not help the contemporary society,instead it enocurage greed and modern slavery !

buzugee:

ahhhhh capitalism. the bane of our existence. the vehicle to rappe and pillage the earth of its resources in a constant endless strive and desire to satisfy our insatiable bottomless greed until that time in which the earth becomes vulnerable enough to withstand natural disasters and then* KABOOMMMMMMMMMMM*. ARMAGEDDON.
aahhhh capitalism. the tool of the devil to fast track us to anarchy, despair, misery, hopelessness, pain and destruction *sigh*

NICE POEM !

Dan China:

To the best of my knowledge, it is a contraption which ensures that the majority keeps complaining, while at the same time,[b] a few others steal away their wealth [/b]and ensure that the majority never agree among themselves on who among the few should constitute the next set of theives, ba ragi ba 'kari, no more, no less,

Gbam !

Capitalism, like everything else, is not perfect. But, if I was to choose between a system that rewarded my innovativeness, ingenuity, and hard work  by making me financially richer and one that did not encourage any kind of progress; take a wild guess which system I'd be choosing!

You think the U.S system is bad, try conducting business in North Korea!

Better than the rest.Encourages free enterprise and hardwork

By the way the term "Capitalism" is hardly used these days, at least since the collapse of USSR and end of the cold-war about two decades ago. Capitalism may be bad, but its alternatives (socialism/communism) are abundantly evil. Bear in mind also that naturally high risk investments such as hedges/derivatives/drugs/gun-running are usually very profitable. But those who engage in such acts are most times prone to sudden death/end. It's all a matter of choice and judgement.

katsumoto,
capitalism is an ideology of the west, socialism is of the east(russia), islamism is of the middle east.
they are all a way of life of a group of people. one giving way for the other is extermination.
most african countries dont have a defined ideology that can permeate or reflect our ways of live. ideology that can be studied, that is scientific - must be empirical, diagnose, hypotesis analysed and result are fed back to be studied. A system that is continuos.

what ideology in your own view should an african state (nigeria) adopt.
Obj once said, a white man told him capitalism was created for the west, that is why you are (nigeria) in that situation. that is you dont understand the system.

ola olabiy:

It is nothing but capitalism with some control.

Intervention, if you like.

Actually, what the scandinavian countries get very well is taxation. In tthe neoclassical microeconomic model for the supply of labour, there is a trade-off between work and leisure. The average worker will consider the benefits of working an extra hour as against pursuing leisure. If the benefits are high, the average worker will work the extra hour and forego leisure. If the benefits are low, the average worker will choose to pursue leisure. What the scandinavians get right is that they tax heavily, the wages earned from working additional hours. Consequently, more workers pursue leisure and forego extra hours, ensuring that more workers are employed. Those workers that choose work over leisure are taxed more heavily. The additional revenue from the tax is then used for welfarist programs. What you arrive at is a system that increases the quality of life in scandinavian countries, reduces greed but does limit innovation and commerce.

hugooh42:

@Katsumoto [b] I don't agree with your arguement that China practice capitalism.[/b]What they practice is a blend of the two. Socialism and capitalism with some blend of flavours distint to them.
So, i'll suggest other countries should evolve their own system which is peculiar to them and can work for them.Not to follow Americans type of capitalism which is heavily flawed.

If you go through my posts, you will see that I state that China is a communist country that practices State Capitalism.

We have all been talking capitalisim this and that socialisim bla blaa, How do we now relate this to the situation of our country, u see moset of us have the knowledge and idea but we are just talking. In the case of Nigeria, if everything is left in the hands of the free market its is going to be disatrous like we have seen in recent time. The the oil industyr for instance, it is left in the hands of the free market but even with government intervention, there are still loads of externaliites arising from oil exploration in the Niger delta( spillages etc) and yet the government has refused to do nothing about it, policies are not being implemented properly hence the need for the "RULE OF LAW", take a look at USA for instance and the BP Spillage, this thing happens everyday in Nigeria yet the system turns its eye away from it, left to the free market they wouldnt cleam it up because the know that no one is going to bother them and it also adds to their numerous cost of doing business. There are so many sectors in Nigeria that are left in the hands of the free market and loads of externalities arise from it due to lack of implementation of policies on the part of the Government e,g (Health Sector, if u dnt av ur money no treatment, the transport sector even education)To me i feel capitalism is the way forward but there has to be d right enviroment and there has to be some form of planning and government control to avoid these externalities

Sagamite:

A system needs classes to be optimal.

People are not equal. We should not try to treat them equally.

Classes should be based on pertinent abilitiies, not on familial privilege or any other rubbish like tribe/race/etc.

An optimal system would have robust class mobility to let the best rise and the weaker take a back seat but supported.

I am ruthlessly in support of such.

We are not equal, at all.

~Bluetooth:

Then such system should be able to consider the welfare of the weak that contribute the labour in production.

Yep. That is why I said " . . . .take a back seat but supported".

It should also be moderated to control gap between rich and poor.

But it should be done in such a way the poor can never be comfortable from just the "support", the "support" should only be there to make their existence bearable. Most of the funds from the rich should be used to give the poor a chance/avenue to compete, not be comfortable.

Katsumoto:

Actually, what the scandinavian countries get very well is taxation. In tthe neoclassical microeconomic model for the supply of labour, there is a trade-off between work and leisure. The average worker will consider the benefits of working an extra hour as against pursuing leisure. If the benefits are high, the average worker will work the extra hour and forego leisure. If the benefits are low, the average worker will choose to pursue leisure. What the scandinavians get right is that they tax heavily, the wages earned from working additional hours. Consequently, more workers pursue leisure and forego extra hours, ensuring that more workers are employed. Those workers that choose work over leisure are taxed more heavily. The additional revenue from the tax is then used for welfarist programs. What you arrive at is a system that increases the quality of life in scandinavian countries, reduces greed but does limit innovation and commerce.

Beauty!

This by vision of governance.

Not the thrash of capitalism where some few think being ruthlessly greedy makes them superstars or in their own terms "Masters of the Universe".

If people read about the Enron guys, you will find that some human beings are sick in the head and heartless.

any ideology hinged on absolute freedom never really works out, eg The Liberterian Press Theory and Capitalism

medjai:

any ideology hinged on absolute freedom never really works out, eg The Liberterian Press Theory and Capitalism

GBAM!!!

I have said this time and again.

To hell with [total] freedom, everything has to be regulated otherwise some humans will abuse it. The importance is for authorities to find the right balance of the intensity of the regulation.

Thank God there are some Homo sapiens Sapiens here. God let the Sahelanthropus tchadensis not find this discussion.


I believe every Theory of economics is workable. The platform in which any economic theory should work is Honesty and fear of God.

Capitalism simply validates the maxim that 'All men are born equal, but all men are not equally endowed'

Nature itself rewards the strong and daring, enterprising spirit. Check out in the school classrooms and indidual world sports. You can't improve the weak in class works by handing out equal marks to everybody, neither will you hand over trophies to every competitor to make all feel good.
Having said that, the weak can decide to burn more of the proverbial mid night candle in order to stay at par with the top of the class just like in the capitalist society, the today's poor can become tommorrows wealthiest.

Just like Darwin's natural selection, it's the survival of the fittest and capitalism has survived over all the other -isms simply because it's the one that develops quick adaptations to the societal white waters - boisteriously dynamic.

However, governments needs to be dispassionate in mounting consistent checks and balances to mititgate the exploitation of its citizenry by the usurpers and greed ladden souls that want to feed where they never sowed.

medjai:

any ideology hinged on absolute freedom never really works out, eg The Liberterian Press Theory and Capitalism

Thanks. You are right.

cecegorz:

Capitalism simply validates the maxim that 'All men are born equal, but all men are not equally endowed'

[b]Nature itself rewards the strong and daring, enterprising spirit. Check out in the school classrooms and indidual world sports. You can't improve the weak in class works by handing out equal marks to everybody, neither will you hand over trophies to every competitor to make all feel good.[/b]Having said that, the weak can decide to burn more of the proverbial mid night candle in order to stay at par with the top of the class just like in the capitalist society, the today's poor can become tommorrows wealthiest.

Just like Darwin's natural selection, it's the survival of the fittest and capitalism has survived over all the other -isms simply because it's the one that develops quick adaptations to the societal white waters - boisteriously dynamic.

However, governments needs to be dispassionate in mounting consistent checks and balances to mititgate the exploitation of its citizenry by the usurpers and greed ladden souls that want to feed where they never sowed.

You are right. Socalism will never work. And, by nature, we are not equal.

Let me give a good example here. The North of Nigeria has tried without any enduring results to bring the North at par with Southners, it has not worked.

They have tried to slow down the wheel of progress down south but it has not worked, either. Human beings need to compete. A blanket measure to support a region will only result in laziness and over-dependency on the State. This is why northerners look up to the State while Southerners are doing well, especially in the East, despite total negligence of the region by the State.
Human beings should not be spoonfed (at least, not always). Nobody would want to be creative, innovative or daring in a situation like that. How many families in th UK who have historically survived on benefits have 'escaped' poverty. Or attended unis.
Idle hands, they say, . . . . . ,