006:

^^^

Are you arguing or are you antagonizing?

Move on mister! I don't have the time for someone that's grasping at straws. It's me that'll define what “socio-political” mean for you and you said you're not dumb?

How am I grasping at straws when I wasn't the one that believed a source that said there are 500,000 people in Aba and 3,000,000 in Kano? How am I grasping at straws when I wasn't the one that said that the Ishan are Edo? You mean asking you what socio-political is is grasping at straws even when it was your example to me? Well tell me, if a group of people are divided socially and politically, what is left to call them an ethnic group, especially if their divided socially?!

@ chinenye

I've always told you you're a confused goon, talking from both sides of your mouth.


Is this quote familiar to you?

So get it correct, the "Igbo" are NOT one people. We are NOT synonymous with each other. The term "Igbo" is simply a social term for the characterization of different people (related and unrelated), on a linguistic basis (i.e. The speech forms generally sound "Igbo"

ezeagu:

How am I grasping at straws when I wasn't the one that believed a source that said there are 500,000 people in Aba and 3,000,000 in Kano? How am I grasping at straws when I wasn't the one that said that the Ishan are Edo? You mean asking you what socio-political is is grasping at straws even when it was your example to me? Well tell me, if a groups of people are divided socially and politically, what is left to call them an ethnic group, especially if their divided socially?!

So if there is a problem between the Ijebu and the rest of the Yoruba ethnic group and the Ijebus quit any meeting, conferences, etc involving Yorubas and declare an Ijebu ethnic group separate from Yoruba.
You as an administrator in charge of national data in Nigeria, would you grant their request?



_{Sometimes it's good to use questions to ascertain how someone views the world.}

006:

So if there is a problem between the Ijebu and the rest of the Yoruba ethnic group and the Ijebus quit any meeting, conferences, etc involving Yorubas and declare an Ijebu ethnic group separate from Yoruba.
You as an administrator in charge of national data in Nigeria, would you grant their request?



_{Sometimes it's good to use questions to ascertain how someone views the world.}

Did you know that everyone (except the Khoisan) west of Agbor and south of the Central African Republic were once one ethnic group not too long ago? What does an ethnic group mean Britannica?

---
a social group or category of the population that, in a larger society, is set apart and bound together by common ties of race, language, nationality, or culture.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/194248/ethnic-group
---

So if an ethnic group is a social group, if a group is divided socially how are they an ethnic group? To answer your question if the Ijebu are not bound together by language or culture to the Yoruba, yes they can be different, and yes they are different.

Here's my own question: If the Idoma and Igbo decided they were "bound together by common ties of race, language, nationality, or culture" would you reject an Idoma as a member of your ethnic group?

ezeagu:

To answer your question if the Ijebu are not bound together by language or culture to the Yoruba, yes they can be different, and yes they are different.

Please clarify.
Yes or No. You know everything about the Ijebus. It's a straight unambiguous question so it requires an unambiguous answer.

Here's the question again:

If there is a problem between the Ijebu and the rest of the Yoruba ethnic group and the Ijebus quit any meeting, conferences, etc involving Yorubas and declare an Ijebu ethnic group separate from Yoruba.
You as an administrator in charge of national data in Nigeria, would you grant their request?

I don't understand why you're targeting me like this, when we're supposed to be here discussing arguments for/against those lists of ethnic groups. Are you no longer capable of further supporting your overly stretched assertion?

ChinenyeN:

I don't understand why you're targeting me like this, when we're supposed to be here discussing arguments for/against those lists of ethnic groups. Are you no longer capable of further supporting your overly stretched assertion?

ChinenyeN, I'll ask you then: If the Idoma and Igbo decided they were "bound together by common ties of race, language, nationality, or culture" would you reject an Idoma as a member of your ethnic group?

@ ezeagu

Why are you running away from answering my question?

Don’t bother asking Chinenye the question you posed for me. I’ll answer you completely without any ambiguity and it’ll definitely be a Yes or a No answer. Same is what I require from you.

We need to treat one question first before we jump into another to avoid getting the whole thing confused.

"You as an administrator in charge of national data in Nigeria, would you grant their request?" -- 006
----- This is at best, an example of you grasping at straws. Government doesn't determine ethnicity. So whether or not government chooses to recognize the existence of a socio-politically distinct body does not mean that said body doesn't exist.

Ezeagu, if we (Idoma and my people) recognized ourselves as being  one distinct socio-political body, then my answer is no. I would not reject an Idoma, but we aren't bound by any of those. So I can't really see myself accepting any Idoma as a member of my ethnic group.

.

006:

Please clarify.
Yes or No. You know everything about the Ijebus. It's a straight unambiguous question so it requires an unambiguous answer.

Here's the question again:

If there is a problem between the Ijebu and the rest of the Yoruba ethnic group and the Ijebus quit any meeting, conferences, etc involving Yorubas and declare an Ijebu ethnic group separate from Yoruba.
You as an administrator in charge of national data in Nigeria, would you grant their request?

It will be an outright stupidity to do so.

Andre Uweh:

It will be an outright stupidity to do so.

Ethnic groups exist with or without recognition from gov't. They don't need some registrar to validate their sense of ethnic community.

Andre Uweh:

It will be an outright stupidity to do so.

Thank you.

I knew ezeagu would dodge the question; he knows how ridiculous it will sound if he says “yes”. If he says “No”, then all his argument would be invalid.
This validates my earlier assertion that he’s grasping at straws.

006:

Thank you.

I know ezeagu would dodge the question; he knows how ridiculous it will sound if he says “yes”. If he says “No”, then all his argument would be invalid.
This validates my earlier assertion that he’s grasping at straws.

I'm trying to figure out if you can read at all, or if I typed a different language by mistake. How is your question crucial to the argument?

ezeagu:

I'm trying to figure out if you can read at all, or if I typed a different language by mistake. How is your question crucial to the argument?

If you can't answer the question, then move on.

ChinenyeN:

Ethnic groups exist with or without recognition from gov't. They don't need some registrar to validate their sense of ethnic community.

Then why were you huffing and puffing because I posted the list accepted by the government?

I don’t think we have any further thing to argue about. The argument has resolved itself.
Government has published the list of ethnic groups present in Nigeria.
You can as well declare your family an ethnic group and it’s equally acceptable but only by you to satisfy your clannish tendencies.

Argument closed!   

This just gets funnier. . .

"Then why were you huffing and puffing because I posted the list accepted by the government? " -- 006
---- This quote is entirely unfounded, considering the nature and content of my posts throughout the course of this "discussion". I put discussion in quotation marks because through the above quote, it could easily be said, and defended that you weren't engaging in discourse at all. Instead, you have been arguing just for arguing sake.

So now, let me restate some things for you. My disagreement is with your overly stretched assertion as well as other "support" which you provided in order to validate a list from an already highly questionable source. All in all, your view is still lacking. You've stretched it too thin. It isn't expansive enough to justify your claim, because there are things you haven't been able to account for with your view. You haven't proven why language unequivocally equals ethnicity.

You're shouting "argument closed", yet you are no longer capable of further "supporting" your weak, overly stretched assertion. It's okay though. At least, now I feel as though I do thoroughly understand where you're coming from.

ChinenyeN:

This just gets funnier. . .

"Then why were you huffing and puffing because I posted the list accepted by the government? " -- 006
---- This quote is entirely unfounded, considering the nature and content of my posts throughout the course of this "discussion". I put discussion in quotation marks because through the above quote, it could easily be said, and defended that you weren't engaging in discourse at all. Instead, you have been arguing just for arguing sake.

So now, let me restate some things for you. My disagreement is with your overly stretched assertion as well as other "support" which you provided in order to validate a list from an already highly questionable source. All in all, your view is still lacking. You've stretched it too thin. It isn't expansive enough to justify your claim, because there are things you haven't been able to account for with your view. You haven't proven why language unequivocally equals ethnicity.

You're shouting "argument closed", yet you are no longer capable of further "supporting" your weak, overly stretched assertion. It's okay though. At least, now I feel as though I do thoroughly understand where you're coming from.

Stretched
At least I provided something whereas you provided nada, nothing, zeru, zero, only pulling out facts from you’re a.s.s.

As I said before, argument closed.

006:

If you can't answer the question, then move on.

You've ran out of steam already?

It's not my problem if you can't understand:

ezeagu:

To answer your question if the Ijebu are not bound together by language or culture to the Yoruba, yes they can be different, and yes they are different.

Maybe next time try and ask a question you will understand the answer to.

006:

So if there is a problem between the Ijebu and the rest of the Yoruba ethnic group and the Ijebus quit any meeting, conferences, etc involving Yorubas and declare an Ijebu ethnic group separate from Yoruba.
You as an administrator in charge of national data in Nigeria, would you grant their request?

Whether a government recognises a group as separate or not, what difference does it make to the 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria? You looked at a simple map similar to this, do you know what that means? It means those government maps are detail-less general map, the same way you would have a general overview of a countries geography. If you want to go by your beloved Nigerian governments maps as an absolutely accurate source, then Port Harcourt must be 100% Ijaw otherwise anything else you say is hypocrisy.  Let's not even talk about Abia and Ebonyi.

Your problem is that you entered into an argument without even reading the post you were replying to properly, you had an agenda rattling inside your brain and you pounced at anything that looked like it would threaten it. What will denying the small ethnic groups in Nigeria exist do to getting your independent state, you're succeeding in turning people off, hard! I guess less ethnic groups will make Nigeria's break up 'cleaner' and less inconsiderate and selfish right? We won't have to worry about smaller ethnic groups being grouped with larger ones that are going to dominate them in any new country right? right. . . .

---

Here's my original post, this time read it well and next time read people's posts well, because someone may actually agree with you, but you must understand that there's such a thing as being neutral and analytical, and just overall realistic, if you can't do this, then hey, join the club of 90% of people on Nairaland:

ezeagu:

Ishan is a major ethnic group and it is missing from this list, which means there are other ethnic groups missing from this list. Ethnic groups in Nigeria may actually be 250+, that being said, the relationship and similarities between these groups is not indicated. What I'm trying to say is that not all groups in Nigeria have come together under a larger body to form an ethnicity. The Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa/Fulani could have easily had their divisions down to the towns represented as separate ethnic groups and they would have been able to defend their uniqueness because it exists, in fact some of those divisons are already listed as separate ethnic groups on that larger list. I don't believe there are hundreds of 'microscopic' tribes with completely different languages though.

Let's look at the list of 250+ ethnic groups for an example for some possible relations:

49   Bilei   Adamawa  
50   Bille   Adamawa  

I don't know if this is a spelling mistake that made one group seem like two (similar to Igbo, Ibo) but these two groups names are too similar to be completely different, especially as they are in the same location.

Eket, Ekoi, Ibibio, Annang, Oron, Efik, Ejagham are an ethnic group, similar language and do not have any other variety apart from some parts of culture. Oron is a town and so is Eket.

Ukwuani: 8 states are indicated as Igbo/partially Igbo which cover Ika, Ikwerre, Ogba, etc, yet Ukwuani is on the list as separate. The list is not trustworthy.

350   Waka   Taraba: Some of these ethnic groups are even insulting the reader.

006:

Stretched 
At least I provided something whereas you provided nada, nothing, zeru, zero, only pulling out facts from you’re a.s.s.

As I said before, argument closed.

Regarding the bolded, overly stretched; not just stretched. Regarding the italicized & underlined, sure. Oh.Kay.

The following link lists more ethnic groups in Nigeria. But I think the list is incomplete since I know a few not listed there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_Nigeria

I would make a list and post back here.

cedlinx:

The following link lists more ethnic groups in Nigeria. But I think the list is incomplete since I know a few not listed there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_Nigeria

I would make a list and post back here.

What a load of rubbish. Which Nigeria govt classified Aro as an rthnic group?. What a silly post. The writer of that wikipedia is so silly to classify Aro, Ikwere and other Igbo groups and yet failed to classify Owo, Ondo, Ijebu, Offa as ethnic groups.
066 has helped us here by providing a link from the govt which accurately list Nigerian ethnic group. Nothing can be better than that.

Andre, mind telling us why exactly the NG (questionable source) list is accurate? (tell us, in your own words, please)

If you'd rather not try to defend your assertion, or if you'd rather not try to defend such a questionable source, then simply state that you'd prefer not to. Thank You.

ChinenyeN:

Andre, mind telling us why exactly the NG (questionable source) list is accurate? (tell us, in your own words, please)

If you'd rather not try to defend your assertion, or if you'd rather not try to defend such a questionable source, then simply state that you'd prefer not to. Thank You.

I did reply to Cedlink post and not ChinenyeN's post. But since you have decided to play the character of of Cedlink here, then you have to answer the question I asked him. In case you did not read through the question, it is, 'why is Owo, Ekiti, Ijebu and Offa not classified as languages; yet Ikwerre is or Aro is termed as languages?.

Andre Uweh:

I did reply to Cedlink post and not ChinenyeN's post. But since you have decided to play the character of of Cedlink here, then you have to answer the question I asked him. In case you did not read through the question, it is, 'why is Owo, Ekiti, Ijebu and Offa not classified as languages; yet Ikwerre is or Aro is termed as languages?.

Ekiti [i]is [/i]a regional language. A yoruba dialect.

FL Gators:

Ekiti [i]is [/i]a regional language. A yoruba dialect.

Thanks for testifying. Yet, when languages are listed in Nigeria, Ekiti, Ijebu, Owoh etc are not listed as languages. But at the same time, those who draw up the list of languages in Nigeria will term Igbo dialects as languages for example Ukwuani, Ikwerre etc. Is that not nonsensical?.

Andre, I used to think well of you, but now, you're no longer any different from your pan-Igbo peers here on NL; attacking anyone who asks a simple question. I'll answer your question by stating that what you're referring to (that Wiki page), is actually a list of ethnic affiliations and not a list of linguistic affiliations.

Now, what of your defense for why that NG list is supposedly accurate?

^^^

Your school professor must be having nightmares whenever you are in his class.
You’ll never cease to amaze me - a 20 yr old who seem to be more knowledgeable than his seniors and the FG.

Keep displaying your ignorance and headstrong character.

Jumping in at everything you know nothing about whether it was posed to you or not while contributing nothing to enhance your stance.

So me asking simple questions is a problem. Hmm. .

^^^

It’s like asking why a white light should appear white whereas its constituents are coloured and insisting on getting an answer.

Your mind was already made up on several issues and you refused to accept new things.

Actually you're wrong. The sole reason I ask questions is to further broaden my understanding. Onye ajuju anaghi efu uzo. I've told you that before, and abu m ezigbota onye ajuju. I ask a lot of questions. So you cannot justly make and defend the claim that my mind is already made up.