Jenwitemi:

All that has been debunked and thrown out, fella. There is no way pulleys, levers and rollers could have been used to move boulders weighing 100s of tons. You can rule that out completely. That has been tried in modern times and it failed woefully. Think of a better alternative.

This is not true. They are plausible but we simply do not know due to the lack of documentation.

Jenwitemi:

There is no crane today that can lift that kind of weight, and yet the ancients were able to move such massive carved stones like that around with seeming ease!   We surely haven't been told what was in the past. Somebody should start vomiting the truth about our past now.

It appears that there actually is a crane that would lift the entire structure. It's called the Taisun. It is of course the world's strongest crane.
They were not moved around with ease. Lots of manual labour was required.

what a mockery of human reasoning!!!

extra-terrestial beings that can create human beings and give life but cannot make gold without labor nor invent extractors or machines to mine gold nor even invent an alternative to gold.

i'd soon be flying to space.all of you should watch me fly!!!lol

But even today we can ''create'' new species by DNA mixing or gene splicing. Heard of Dolly the Sheep? In fact the only thing stopping further experiments in this field is ''ethical considerations'.

Doesn't mean we can also ''create gold'', or do away with the need for miners.

It is no longer a big deal to create the organic container we call physical body. All that is needed is enough knowledge in genetic engineering and the ETs are adepts in this area. But we need to realize that our physical bodies are not who we are. Who we are is uncreated awareness occupying the physical body. Call that "awareness" spirit, consciousness, soul. . . or whatever you like.

ETs, as well as humans, cannot create life itself because that is uncreateable, but they can create a container for life, aka the physical body.

LagosShia:

what a mockery of human reasoning!!!

extra-terrestial beings that can create human beings and give life but cannot make gold without labor nor invent extractors or machines to mine gold nor even invent an alternative to gold.

i'd soon be flying to space.all of you should watch me fly!!!lol

ROSSIKE:

But even today we can ''create'' new species by DNA mixing or gene splicing. Heard of Dolly the Sheep? In fact the only thing stopping further experiments in this field is ''ethical considerations'.

Doesn't mean we can also ''create gold'', or do away with the need for miners.

Going back to the original theme, there are 10s of fantastically futuristic looking pyramids beneath the world oceans. Also, Beneath our feet, there are thousands of miles of artificially built, arrow straight tunnels that have been discovered centuries ago, but hidden from the public eyes. These tunnels were built with tunnelling technologies that were only available to "modern" humanity in the late 60s to early 70s. Now, that's a puzzle for you!

ROSSIKE:

jenwitemi said:



lol. If they did, it would upset a lot of things.

The plain fact is that whole philosophies, religions, socio-economic systems, and even academic/working careers, have been built on defending the current deceptions.

The fallout from full disclosure would be such that it could sweep the entire system away with it, with unfathomable consequences for the ruling classes. Hence their resistance to the widespread dissemination and acceptance of this knowledge.

I do sense though, that they are allowing the knowledge to spread slowly, in a barely noticeable way, perhaps to prepare us for the ''second coming'' of those entities, as long predicted by the ''prophets'', ie the errand boys hired by those beings in antiquity.

You hit the nail on the head there with those points. And we are being slowly fed with hollywood at the forefront of the gradual disseminations. The commercial ads on tv these days are full of them too.

Jenwitemi:

Going back to the original theme, there are 10s of fantastically futuristic looking pyramids beneath the world oceans. Also, Beneath our feet, there are thousands of miles of artificially built, arrow straight tunnels that have been discovered centuries ago, but hidden from the public eyes. These tunnels were built with tunnelling technologies that were only available to "modern" humanity in the late 60s to early 70s. Now, that's a puzzle for you!

Do you have some evidence for this claim?

Use the google, mate. I am not about to do any work for you.

thehomer:

Do you have some evidence for this claim?

Jenwitemi:

Use the google, mate. I am not about to do any work for you.

You're not doing any work. I need more specific references than "underground tunnels that cannot have been made by humans". This is so broad that one does not even know where to start. I need to know the particular ones you're referring to rather than me barking up the wrong tree.

jenwitemi said:

It is no longer a big deal to create the organic container we call physical body. All that is needed is enough knowledge in genetic engineering and the ETs are adepts in this area. But we need to realize that our physical bodies are not who we are. Who we are is uncreated awareness occupying the physical body. Call that "awareness" spirit, consciousness, soul. . . or whatever you like.

ETs, as well as humans, cannot create life itself because that is uncreateable, but they can create a container for life, aka the physical body.

Correct.

thehomer, this is for you:


Ancient Aliens - Underground Cities and Tunnels


Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvBFGqNqJ70&feature=&p=CF64859C76EF8FDF&index=0&playnext=1

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ywshu65Sk&feature=related

Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZRSjqtfFE&feature=related

I am loving this.

VALIDATOR, I feel u. The more one learns about these things, the more plausible the thesis.

Alien creatures that evolved on a different planet, light years away from earth were intelligent enough to make spaceships that could travel the immense distance across interstellar space so that they can mine the earths gold to take back to their own planet. They had sex with one of the many early human species of the time to create a hybrid species called homo sapiens as their mixed race/ inter-species children. They then forced their children to do the hard labour of mining the gold for them. Then they suddenly returned home and left not one piece of advanced equipment behind. Not even a bit of plastic or a piece of an advanced tool which was not invented yet. And that's how modern humans (homo sapiens) got here. Think rationally about it.

The story is far from plausible. Do not underestimate the craftsmanship, will and determination of the ancient civilisations at the time of the agricultural revolution. We know how the inca lines were made, we also know how the pyramids were made. It is not impossible to move blocks of that size using elephants, oxen, rollers, pulleys, ramps and simple hydraulics. Think about it, if you tie 200 oxen or elephants together, and use wooden rollers how many tons can you move? It just takes a bit of planning and project management using the resources at hand. No aliens required.

If you look up at the sky at night, what do you see? Thousands of stars and a few mysterious moving stars (planets). All over the world different cultures made up different myths to explain it all. Most of them thought that powerful gods lived up there and were looking down on us, so that gave them the strong incentive to appease them and make huge magnificent structures for them.

ROSSIKE:

thehomer, this is for you:


Ancient Aliens - Underground Cities and Tunnels


Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvBFGqNqJ70&feature=&p=CF64859C76EF8FDF&index=0&playnext=1

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ywshu65Sk&feature=related

Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZRSjqtfFE&feature=related

I usually do not bother with referrals to external links especially when it involves multimedia files but I made an exception in this case. I was disappointed. I was unable to watch the first clip to the end due to the obvious falsehoods being presented mixed in with myths.

The underground city being referred to was only exceptional due to the size it had attained but it was not unique in the region. There were multiple underground cities in that region. Those cities started small and gradually grew over centuries as various cultures populated those caverns. I did not notice anything extraordinary about those buildings especially when the fact that the rock was soft was mentioned. Contrary to what was said, the structure was dated to about 8th to 7th century B.C. built by the culture present there at that time.
There is already evidence that early Christians hid in those caves and that there were chapels present in some of them.

The further absurd claims that those structures would have protected the dwellers from aerial bombardment by civilizations with the ability to traverse galaxies is simply absurd. Civilizations currently present on earth have the ability of penetrating bunkers made of reinforced concrete above a depth of about 6 metres with better ones being currently available. Imagine what would then happen if it exploded with the softness of the rock used for the buildings? How much more a civilization with the ability to traverse a galaxy?

This sort of appeal to ignorance (we do not know everything that happened here therefore the myths of the region actually meant extraterrestrials) is simply absurd given what we actually know.

I think you actually need something better than myths and falsehoods to demonstrate your links between humans and your claimed extraterrestrials.

mantraa:

Alien creatures that evolved on a different planet, light years away from earth were intelligent enough to make spaceships that could travel the immense distance across interstellar space so that they can mine the earths gold to take back to their own planet.

Haven't you heard of spacetime bending technology that can be used to traverse vast space within a very short period of time? Alien civilizations would have such technologies, so itr is no big deal. What about interdimensional shifting technology? That also takes seconds. Not all ETs are from our dimension. The problem with you is that you are still on old technology. Vastly more is possible. . .

mantraa:

Then they suddenly returned home and left not one piece of advanced equipment behind. Not even a bit of plastic or a piece of an advanced tool which was not invented yet. And that's how modern humans (homo sapiens) got here. Think rationally about it.

Many artefacts have been found that are beyond human comprehension. Many. Evidence of nano technology have been found deep in the earth crust dating hundreds of millions of years. Have you heard of Michael Cremo?

mantraa:
Do not underestimate the craftsmanship, will and determination of the ancient civilisations at the time of the agricultural revolution.

We shouldn't? Supposedly stone age civilizations with only crude and primitive methods building monuments tha modern man cannot even attempt? And you think that is plausible? NO, it is not.

mantraa:

It is not impossible to move blocks of that size using elephants, oxen, rollers, pulleys, ramps and simple hydraulics.

Yes, it is. Modern archaeologists have tried to move megalithic boulders with such tools and they failed woefully. The megalithic structures strewned all over the planet clearly showed that whoever built them did it with ease.

mantraa:

Think about it, if you tie 200 oxen or elephants together, and use wooden rollers how many tons can you move? It just takes a bit of planning and project management using the resources at hand. No aliens required.

This is just ridiculous. No wooden rollers can support hundreds of tons of weight. They would pulverise immediately. Even if massive blocks can be moved by 200 oxens, what about the delicate and precise placements of these blocks in megalithic structures like the Giza pyramid? You are grasping at straws here, using weak arguements that have been abandoned a long time ago. Update up!

mantraa:

If you look up at the sky at night, what do you see? Thousands of stars and a few mysterious moving stars (planets). All over the world different cultures made up different myths to explain it all. Most of them thought that powerful gods lived up there and were looking down on us, so that gave them the strong incentive to appease them and make huge magnificent structures for them.

Magnificent structures that we can't build today, and these ancient bronze age civilizations are supposed to be primitive? Who is thinking irrationally here? Do you know tha the great Giza pyramid was built with a  structural precision that cannot be matched by today's engineers with all their technologies? You really do ned to update up.
[quote][/quote]

mantraa said:

Alien creatures that evolved on a different planet, light years away from earth were intelligent enough to make spaceships that could travel the immense distance across interstellar space so that they can mine the earths gold to take back to their own planet. They had sex with one of the many early human species of the time to create a hybrid species called homo sapiens as their mixed race/ inter-species children. They then forced their children to do the hard labour of mining the gold for them.

You've obviously not followed the links on this thread. There is no proposition that man was created by, or resulted from the process of aliens having sex with ''early human species''.

The proposition is that advanced beings genetically engineered a new, intelligent species, man, into existence through melding of their DNA with that of earth hominids, using advanced gene splicing techniques as in a laboratory. Thus the question of us being ''their children'' in the filial way you seem to suggest, doesn't really arise.

Then they suddenly returned home and left not one piece of advanced equipment behind.

What sort of ''advanced equipment'' could they have left behind to last 7 or 8000 years down to our time??

In any case, there's no saying what they've left. There are rumours of no go areas within the pyramids of Egypt, barred from the public, with claims that 'something' lies beneath certain chambers.

The story is far from plausible. Do not underestimate the craftsmanship, will and determination of the ancient civilisations at the time of the agricultural revolution.

We know how the inca lines were made

You do? So how were the mountain tops flattened off? Where is the residue?

we also know how the pyramids were made. It is not impossible to move blocks of that size using elephants, oxen, rollers, pulleys, ramps and simple hydraulics. Think about it, if you tie 200 oxen or elephants together, and use wooden rollers how many tons can you move? It just takes a bit of planning and project management using the resources at hand. No aliens required.

As far as I know, everyone that's tried to replicate the process has failed. Even more important is that there is no clear reason as to why the pyramids were built. Why anyone went to such great effort to build structurees that contained nothing. They were not burial tombs, as some people think. Not one pharoah was ever buried in a pyramid. No one lived in it. They had no windows, nothing. So in whose interest exactly was it to construct them?? It only makes sense when you expand your perspective to include extraterrestrial involvement in our affairs.

If you look up at the sky at night, what do you see? Thousands of stars and a few mysterious moving stars (planets). All over the world different cultures made up different myths to explain it all. Most of them thought that powerful gods lived up there and were looking down on us, so that gave them the strong incentive to appease them and make huge magnificent structures for them.

That's simply not a credible explanation. This whole idea that early men were somehow unintelligent brutes who acted on impulse no longer washes. They would NOT build massive monuments to gods on a whim or a guess. Nobody does that. You have to be SURE. I mean REALLY SURE as to WHY you were doing it, to get your lieutenants and people to go along with it, before you even got to the point of embarking on such a gigantic project using primitive tools.

It's not something you wake up and say, ''well there are the stars up there,  we believe they are gods, so let's go build a pyramid that'll take us 300 years to construct using our stone tools and thousands of slaves over 5 consecutive generations!'' Nobody does that, no matter how religious.

There are far too many pointers to alien intervention. How did the Sumerians know the number of planets around our sun?



On the 4000 year old plaque above they've got TEN planets around the sun. It was only a few years ago that modern scientists discovered there are in fact ten planets orbiting our sun, and not 9 as previously thought.

This was only discovered using the most advanced technology known to man a few years ago, but the Sumerians knew it 4000 years ago. How?

And why do the images/depictions of the aliens look similar whether they're being drawn on a Peruvian cliff, an Aztec cave, or an Egyptian tomb wall?

Did these people all meet somewhere and decide their 'myths' would be similar, down to the features of the beings they would respectively ''imagine''?

Why the uniform references to beings in flying vehicles who created AND introduced civilization to man?

Why the immense gulf in intelligence between man and other animals? If evolution accounts for man's presence here, what explains that gulf, and why has no one found the ''missing link''?

Isn't it because there is NO missing link, and we, as humans, are carriers of a level of intelligence not of this world??

The ruins of Pumapunku is another favourite site of mine. The age of the ruins is unknown and there are clear indications of some kind of laser technology used to precisely slice huge boulders of rock. Which unknown civilization was responsible for this?

There are far too many pointers to alien intervention. How did the Sumerians know the number of planets around our sun?

same way the ancient greeks knew it.

by observation.

Lol! Observation with what? Please, don't tell me with their nakid eyes, please! 

tpia1:

same way the ancient greeks knew it.

by observation.

Jenwitemi:

Haven't you heard of spacetime bending technology that can be used to traverse vast space within a very short period of time? Alien civilizations would have such technologies, so itr is no big deal. What about interdimensional shifting technology? That also takes seconds. Not all ETs are from our dimension. The problem with you is that you are still on old technology. Vastly more is possible. . .

Do you have such technology available or are you simply inventing for the extraterrestrials them to make your stories more believable to you?

Jenwitemi:

Many artefacts have been found that are beyond human comprehension. Many. Evidence of nano technology have been found deep in the earth crust dating hundreds of millions of years. Have you heard of Michael Cremo?

Such as? What nano-technology? I would advice you to avoid an appeal to authority fallacy and more especially, an appeal to an improper authority.

Jenwitemi:

We shouldn't? Supposedly stone age civilizations with only crude and primitive methods building monuments tha modern man cannot even attempt? And you think that is plausible? NO, it is not.

Such as?

Jenwitemi:

Yes, it is. Modern archaeologists have tried to move megalithic boulders with such tools and they failed woefully. The megalithic structures strewned all over the planet clearly showed that whoever built them did it with ease.

This is simply not true. The fact is that most of these structures are at World Heritage Sites and are not supposed to be needlessly disturbed. And no one will put up money to demonstrate that we can actually move these objects easily especially when you consider that they would have to quarry it at another site, select an appropriate environment then drag it around.
What evidence do you have that all these structures were set up by the same cultures?

Jenwitemi:

This is just ridiculous. No wooden rollers can support hundreds of tons of weight. They would pulverise immediately. Even if massive blocks can be moved by 200 oxens, what about the delicate and precise placements of these blocks in megalithic structures like the Giza pyramid? You are grasping at straws here, using weak arguements that have been abandoned a long time ago. Update up!

Rollers can support those weights. One important fact that you need to realize is that those stones are not dense.

Jenwitemi:

Magnificent structures that we can't build today, and these ancient bronze age civilizations are supposed to be primitive? Who is thinking irrationally here? Do you know tha the great Giza pyramid was built with a  structural precision that cannot be matched by today's engineers with all their technologies? You really do ned to update up.

Structures that we cannot build today? I hope you realize that we are able to build oil rigs far out in the ocean, space shuttles for multiple missions, airplanes, sky scrapers, super tankers three times longer than the height of the pyramids etc and you think we cannot move a pile of stones and set them up in a stable pyramid form?

thehomer,  regarding the pyramids of Egypt, I actually think the real problem here is that they precisely cut and arranged rock in ways that were superior to what we know we can do with primitive tools,  So, how did they do it?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P, ction_theories

Quote:
The passages inside the pyramid are all extremely straight and precise, such that the longest of them, referred to as the descending passage, which is 350' 0.25" long deviates from being truly straight by less than 0.25 inches, while one of the shorter passages with a length of just over 150 feet deviates from being truly straight by a mere 0.020 inches. These and the above statistics prove the pyramid to be literally the most accurately constructed building on the face of the earth despite having been created several millennia ago. All theories which sufficiently allow for this level of accuracy assume a level of technology approximately equal to or exceeding current technology, at least in the area of tool making and construction.

Homer, has modern man built a pyramid, the size of the ones at Giza, using millions of 2 ton blocks? If modern man has built such a structure, where is it? If modern man has not, why? Could it be that they can't? If ancient man could, with only primitive tools, why can't modern man with all the technology at his disposal, if only to prove that he could do it. What is stopping modern man from repeating this engineering feat?

The Stone Of The Pregnant Woman


At the southern entrance of Baalbeck is a quarry where the stones used in the temples were cut. A huge block, considered the largest hewn stone in the world, still sits where it was cut almost 2,000 years ago. Called the "Stone of the Pregnant Woman", it is 21.5m x 4.8m x 4.2meters in size and weighs an estimated 1,000 tons.

How the bleeding hell did the ancient man cut a stone of such size with primitive tools, homer? Please, explain.

Jenwitemi:

Lol! Observation with what? Please, don't tell me with their nakid eyes, please! 

you'll see the same thing they saw if you took time off to search and observe like they did. It's not rocket science.

you seem to forget there was such a thing as seafaring.

how would seamen navigate without astronomy?

ROSSIKE:

thehomer,  regarding the pyramids of Egypt, I actually think the real problem here is that they precisely cut and arranged rock in ways that were superior to what we know we can do with primitive tools,  So, how did they do it?

Have you considered the fact that we are not familiar with using these primitive tools? Besides, I don't think anyone will put up the time and money to test our current abilities of moving and arranging stones at that scale using primitive tools.

ROSSIKE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P, ction_theories

Quote:
The passages inside the pyramid are all extremely straight and precise, such that the longest of them, referred to as the descending passage, which is 350' 0.25" long deviates from being truly straight by less than 0.25 inches, while one of the shorter passages with a length of just over 150 feet deviates from being truly straight by a mere 0.020 inches. These and the above statistics prove the pyramid to be literally the most accurately constructed building on the face of the earth despite having been created several millennia ago. All theories which sufficiently allow for this level of accuracy assume a level of technology approximately equal to or exceeding current technology, at least in the area of tool making and construction.

I couldn't find the referenced page.

Jenwitemi:

Homer, has modern man built a pyramid, the size of the ones at Giza, using millions of 2 ton blocks? If modern man has built such a structure, where is it? If modern man has not, why? Could it be that they can't? If ancient man could, with only primitive tools, why can't modern man with all the technology at his disposal, if only to prove that he could do it. What is stopping modern man from repeating this engineering feat?

Modern man has built far superior structures like the space shuttle, super tankers, skyscrapers more than 4 times taller than the pyramids, oil rigs in the ocean, laboratories in space etc, have you considered that modern humans don't waste time building such a structure again because they are not currently useful?

Jenwitemi:

The Stone Of The Pregnant Woman

At the southern entrance of Baalbeck is a quarry where the stones used in the temples were cut. A huge block, considered the largest hewn stone in the world, still sits where it was cut almost 2,000 years ago. Called the "Stone of the Pregnant Woman", it is 21.5m x 4.8m x 4.2meters in size and weighs an estimated 1,000 tons.

How the bleeding hell did the ancient man cut a stone of such size with primitive tools, homer? Please, explain.

How primitive were the tools? Remember that it was built during the time of the Roman Empire. The same civilization that brought us Roman columns, Roman roads, Roman aqueducts and the Colosseum.

These guys already had metallic tools to quarry stones with.

Quote from thehomer -

I'd say it's likely but realistically, I simply cannot say because all we have is a sample size of one.

What I simply mean is this: do you consider it likely that intelligent life exists only on the earth, given the approximate size of the universe.

To answer this we needn't make any comparisons with other universes - given that we know nothing of such.

The OP has made several claims from the origin of humans to that of human legends. I don't see what planetary engineering has to do with this post but if it was in that wall of text, I didn't read it. But if it is about Annunaki referred to in another post, (the link by tpia@) then those claims simply go against physics.

The real question in case you missed it is this: Since planetary engineering and also bio-engineering of living clones is already within the realm of human science and having regard to whatever you may consider is the degree of probability of the existence of intelligent life other than on the earth, would you consider it possible that other civilizations may also have engineered planets and creatures?

Do you consider it absolutely unthinkable, inconceivable and impossible - that the earth could be one such engineered piece?

Homer, do you realize that there is very few structures, if any, that modern man has built that can still stand in two hundred years, talkless of millenia? None of those things you mentioned would survive a millenia here on the planet. And yet, the ancient man, who is not supposed to possess any technical knowhow, succeeded in building such structures. What all these have shown us is that we have not been told the truth about our ancient past. We have been terribly lied to. Ancient myths the world over have told us that ETs were here but they removed their presence due to the reasons best known to them and we see the signs of their once upon a time presence on earth.

As for modern man building pyramids with the same size and megalithic building materials, let us face it, he can't. So, it is better not to embarass ourselves by trying. Enough of the excuses. Why do you think the great Giza pyramid was chosen as a world wonder and not some space shuttle or whatever?

thehomer:

Modern man has built far superior structures like the space shuttle, super tankers, skyscrapers more than 4 times taller than the pyramids, oil rigs in the ocean, laboratories in space etc, have you considered that modern humans don't waste time building such a structure again because they are not currently useful?

As primitive as laser cutters? What kind of tools would have been used to hewn such a huge stone out of a bedrock? And no, it was not built at the time of the romans. The date goes much further back, as well as the age of the pyramids and the sphinx. We have not even started talking about how these monstrous obelisk were transported because they were quarried far from where they were to be used.

thehomer:

How primitive were the tools? Remember that it was built during the time of the Roman Empire. The same civilization that brought us Roman columns, Roman roads, Roman aqueducts and the Colosseum.

These guys already had metallic tools to quarry stones with.