LagosShia:

it is "all or nothing" if we can be sure and we are convinced that there is no error in either the collection of hadiths or the bible.but when there is error then it can never be "all or nothing".we must then examine each word to determine what we should accept and what we should reject.those that can neither be verified as acceptable nor rejected,we can be indifferent toward them.

for example,in the New Testament,we find where Jesus said "hear oh israel the lord our God is One".Jesus said that is the most important commandment,when asked of which is the greatest (mark 12:29).that is beautifully put and appealing to the heart of the most pious muslim.that is the basis of the message sent by God to all His messengers and prophets.that is tawhid (monotheism) and that is what makes us muslims and what we recite when we become muslim or to become muslim and we recite everyday.

but when you examine more, another verse tells you"in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was god".in the new world translation of jehovah's witnesses,John 1:1 reads:"in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word is A god"!!! now that is called polytheism.

ofcourse i can go on and cite more verses from the bible that we cannot accept because they contradict the basis of faith and the message of God.we cannot just let everything go or be thrown away.if that is done,then a muslim and a christian will have nothing in common to base their dialogue or debate.

there are also biblical verses on history and science that need to be verified from science and secular history.and i know not everything in the bible on those 2 categories are acceptable.

Very funny,the Koran has errors just as the Bible and any other historical book.

The fact is none of us were actually/physically there.

Trying to point fingers won't get you far my dear,so don't even start.

Lets discuss Islam ,dnt try to tell me the Koran is correct while the Bible isn't.

Stay focused.

Talking about the Trinity can you help explain these verses in the Glorious Koran

Sura 6 vs.94
"And behold! ye come to Us bare and alone as We created you for the first time. . ."

Sura 7 vs.11
"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; . . ."

Q.23 vs.12
"Verily We created man from a product of wet earth. . ."

Q.21 vs.73
"And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve" (trans. by Pickthal: "and they were worshippers of Us (alone).".

WE used in the Quran is the Royal "WE'. In the Arabic Language, WE signifies Royalty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_plural
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-royal-we.htm

WE refers to the majestic plural, Allah refers to himself in Majesty.


The term "We" in the Bible and in the Quran is the royal "We" - as an example when the king says, "We decree the following declaration, etc." or, "We are not amused." It does not indicate plural; rather it displays the highest position in the language. English, Persian, Hebrew, Arabic and many languages provide for the usage of "We" for the royal figure. It is helpful to note the same dignity is given to the person being spoken to in English. We say to someone, "You ARE my friend." Yet the person is only one person standing there. Why did we say "ARE" instead of "IS"? The noun "you" is singular and should therefore be associated with a singular verb for the state of being, yet we say, "are." The same is true for the speaker when referring to himself or herself. We say, "I am" and this is also in the royal plural, instead of saying, "I is."

When Allah uses the term "HE" in Quran it is similar to the above answer. The word "He" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status. It would be totally inappropriate to use the word "it" and would not convey the proper understanding of Allah being who Allah is; Alive, Compassionate, Forgiving, Patient, Loving, etc. It is not correct to associate the word "He" with gender, as this would be comparing Allah to the creation, something totally against the teaching of Quran.

1. Say: He is Allah, the One!
2. Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
3. He begetteth not nor was begotten.
4. And there is none comparable unto Him.

Surah 112(1-4)

You see what makes the Quran special is that no matter how hard you try you cannot find one contradiction, It is unlike any book, The Bible cannot be compared to the Quran,
The miracles of the Quran are too numerous to enumerate,

Or do they say he forged it? Say: Bring then a chapter like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can, beside God, if it be you speak the truth."
[Noble Quran 10:38]

@hymen,be careful even as youre curious,because,to me personally,its not wise to lash the religion while you claim youre curious to know more of it,its like youre more of an enemy of Islam than rather wanting to know it,and you may be cursed/punished by Allah when you do that if you dnt know,Allah is no respecter of any person,,so mind the way you go about your curiousity as it looks like defaming rather than wanting to know it by love.forexaample,while i was studying basics of Islam i never for once defamed it,i was even happy i was threading towards salvation,rubbishing it does not show you love the religion,its more of like hypocricy.

muslims are those that  follow Islam as thier religion and their lives are guided by the religion,i dnt know where you came about the nonesense you wrote,like hypocricy,politics,etc,anyone found doing all those you listed is not practicing Islam as all you listed is out of Islam and its very rare you see muslims being labelled as such evils,even though there might be some,that would be the very few ignorant ones unlike the christians that are known for all kinds of actrocities.Though you wanna brag to include christianity with Islam as a divine religion,i tell you it is not divine at all,only Islam is divine,and as a matter of fact Jesus son of mary and majority of the prophets in your bible practiced Islam and not your modern trinity christianity,so dnt come here and attach divinity to Christianity,Allah cannot ordain two religions,He is and will always be pleased with Islam.sorry i dnt mean any form of hate here.

@Hymen,the Quran is free from corruption o,maybe you can equalise some ahadiths with the bible but not the Quran,pls save yourself from haedache,billions of scientist done research already and found it undistort since it came down,eventhough,thier findings does not even move an inche,its just one of thier ways to look for errors while they were curious as well,its authencity does not is not even based on thier findings,and why would you wanna discuss Islam while you saying its main source of guidance is corrupt,why dnt you read your bible more and find more annoying,laughable,,disgraceful contradictions left right and center,,and they way they depicted God is so bad and never merciful,infact,that was the main reason i kept urging to study more about Islam,and here i am am so happy to be saved from damnation,Alhamdullilah.

uplawal:

@hymen,be careful even as youre curious,because,to me personally,its not wise to lash the religion while you claim youre curious to know more of it,its like youre more of an enemy of Islam than rather wanting to know it,and you may be cursed/punished by Allah when you do that if you dnt know,Allah is no respecter of any person,,so mind the way you go about your curiousity as it looks like defaming rather than wanting to know it by love.forexaample,while i was studying basics of Islam i never for once defamed it,i was even happy i was threading towards salvation,rubbishing it does not show you love the religion,its more of like hypocricy.

muslims are those that follow Islam as thier religion and their lives are guided by the religion,i dnt know where you came about the nonesense you wrote,like hypocricy,politics,etc,anyone found doing all those you listed is not practicing Islam as all you listed is out of Islam and its very rare you see muslims being labelled as such evils,even though there might be some,that would be the very few ignorant ones unlike the christians that are known for all kinds of actrocities.Though you wanna brag to include christianity with Islam as a divine religion,i tell you it is not divine at all,only Islam is divine,and as a matter of fact Jesus son of mary and majority of the prophets in your bible practiced Islam and not your modern trinity christianity,so dnt come here and attach divinity to Christianity,Allah cannot ordain two religions,He is and will always be pleased with Islam.sorry i dnt mean any form of hate here.

uplawal:

@Hymen,the Quran is free from corruption o,maybe you can equalise some ahadiths with the bible but not the Quran,pls save yourself from haedache,billions of scientist done research already and found it undistort since it came down,eventhough,thier findings does not even move an inche,its just one of thier ways to look for errors while they were curious as well,its authencity does not is not even based on thier findings,and why would you wanna discuss Islam while you saying its main source of guidance is corrupt,why dnt you read your bible more and find more annoying,laughable,,disgraceful contradictions left right and center,,and they way they depicted God is so bad and never merciful,infact,that was the main reason i kept urging to study more about Islam,and here i am am so happy to be saved from damnation,Alhamdullilah.

@uplawal,please don't take things personal. I have not defamed anybody's religion. Try to read what one is responding to before drawing conclusions. As you say 'let God judge'. You are a mere human being lke me & you certainly can't predict what God will do ,so be careful. Stop making such categorical statements or else you'll be in trouble with the same God you think you are defending .

Whether the Koran has contradictions or not is not really my concern. A simple google search will address that question. If I have a query on Islam or you believe Im in 'error',point out with facts. . . don't load me with dogma. It may make you feel better,but it doesn't answer any question ,ok?

Almost everyone on NL is intelligent enough to reason,so don't be presumptuous.

I was already praising you on another thread ,only to encounter your vitriolic &quarrelsome self here again.

hymen:

Very funny,the Koran has errors just as the Bible and any other historical book.

The fact is none of us were actually/physically there.

Trying to point fingers won't get you far my dear,so don't even start.

Lets discuss Islam ,dnt try to tell me the Koran is correct while the Bible isn't.

Stay focused.

"hymen",

when you throw allegations like the one above,you should try and be very sure of what you are saying.

i tried to stay out of this off-topic issue and i think this issue should be discussed out of this thread.

just to quickly correct you,i want to say that it is true we were not there when the Quran or the bible was compiled.but you have no right to say that the Quran contains errors just as the bible.that is wrong.i can give you a long list of errors from the bible and i will confidently say that you cannot give a single error from the Quran.what matters is the evidence at hand.if we were not there,we know that.but what matters is the evidence at hand.what we have from the Quran and the Bible is crystal clear and sufficient for us to make our choices whether to be muslim or christian.

if you are sure the Quran is just like the bible with erros,then give us just one error from the Holy Quran if you are truthful and not being presumptious.

Please note that I love muslims and I feel many aspects of Islam are divinely inspired.

LagosShia:

"hymen",

when you throw allegations like the one above,you should try and be very sure of what you are saying.

i tried to stay out of this off-topic issue and i think this issue should be discussed out of this thread.

just to quickly correct you,i want to say that it is true we were not there when the Quran or the bible was compiled.but you have no right to say that the Quran contains errors just as the bible.that is wrong.i can give you a long list of errors from the bible and i will confidently say that you cannot give a single error from the Quran.what matters is the evidence at hand.if we were not there,we know that.but what matters is the evidence at hand.what we have from the Quran and the Bible is crystal clear and sufficient for us to make our choices whether to be muslim or christian.

if you are sure the Quran is just like the bible with erros,then give us just one error from the Holy Quran if you are truthful and not being presumptious.

I'm posting this in response to your post above.

Here are a few contradictions in Quran I can pick from the top of my head:

1. Sura 54:19 mentions Aad was destroyed in a day but 69:6,7 mentions Aad was destroyed in seven nights and eight days;

2. Sura 19:17 shows an angel appeared to Mary but 3:42 shows several angels appeared;

3. Sura 28:40 mentions pharaoh drowned and died but 10:92 states that the same pharaoh was saved

Like my grandmother used to say - everyone believes his fathers farm is the biggest in the world. Don't get emotional. Stay logical . Salaam.

These arguments have long been put forward on NL,but you seem to be oblivious to them.


How long did it take Allah to create heaven and earth?
6 days
Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition? Qur'an 10:3


8 days
Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;

Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower Quran 41:9-12

Again,this is with all due respect,no pun intended or insults meant,just trying you to make you come down from you 'high horse'. Argue about Hussein/karbala etc,but don't stray ,ok? God bless.

@hymen,wallahi,its for your own good,i only wrote that upthere simply how i feel towards your writtings,and everyone reading can testify that some of your writtings are not only"not innocent" but they are baised and full of sarcasm,its how and what you've written and not your how you feel,if you feel  not innocent towards the religion,its truly gonna show outwardly in your writtings no matter how you claimed you dnt mean any harm,am only telling you how dangerous it is to mock Allah and its religion,He warned severally about such actions and spoke about how he will deal with people like that,so dnt think i dnt know what am saying,just be careful thats all i can say.

hymen:

These arguments have long been put forward on NL,but you seem to be oblivious to them.


How long did it take Allah to create heaven and earth?
6 days
Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition? Qur'an 10:3


8 days
Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;

Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower Quran 41:9-12

Again,this is with all due respect,no pun intended or insults meant,just trying you to make you come down from you 'high horse'. Argue about Hussein/karbala etc,but don't stray ,ok? God bless.

Hymen, I am quite sure you haven't read the Quran, bits and pieces maybe , So let me help you,

Let's examine surah 41 9- 12 if you will,

If we count the 2 days mentioned in verse 9, the four days mentioned in verse 10 and the two days in verse 12, We get a total of eight days, However if you examine verse 10, you would see that it is still talking about the earth. Therefore the four days in chapter 10 is inclusive of the 2 days, not distinct.

This is reasonable, because the processes described in verses 9 and 10 form one series. In one case,, it is the creation of the formless matter of the earth, and in the other case it talks of the gradual evolution of the form of the earth, its mountains and seas, its animal and vegetative life, everything in due proportion.

Many people have tried to bring contradictions but they don't just exist,

Oga,your calculation ,confuses me more. Isn't strange that a book without any error requires further interpretation by mere human beings? Like I pointed out earlier,the reason I brought this up is not to cast aspersion on the graet religion of Islam ,but to silence people like Lagos Shia who believes he has all the nswers,frankly nobody does. We can only try.

uplawal:

@hymen,wallahi,its for your own good,i only wrote that upthere simply how i feel towards your writtings,and everyone reading can testify that some of your writtings are not only"not innocent" but they are baised and full of sarcasm,its how and what you've written and not your how you feel,if you feel not innocent towards the religion,its truly gonna show outwardly in your writtings no matter how you claimed you dnt mean any harm,am only telling you how dangerous it is to mock Allah and its religion,He warned severally about such actions and spoke about how he will deal with people like that,so dnt think i dnt know what am saying,just be careful thats all i can say.

I may sound sacarstic,but actually Im not. I honestly want some answers & there's no nice easy way to put it. If we are confident of our beliefs ,we do not need to get emotional about probing or seemingly difficult questions. As I have said before ,stop threatening fire & brimstone on behalf of God Almighty,you may be gettiing yourself into trouble.

hymen:

Please note that I love muslims and I feel many aspects of Islam are divinely inspired.

I'm posting this in response to your post above.

Here are a few contradictions in Quran I can pick from the top of my head:

1. Sura 54:19 mentions Aad was destroyed in a day but 69:6,7 mentions Aad was destroyed in seven nights and eight days;

2. Sura 19:17 shows an angel appeared to Mary but 3:42 shows several angels appeared;

3. Sura 28:40 mentions pharaoh drowned and died but 10:92 states that the same pharaoh was saved

Like my grandmother used to say - everyone believes his fathers farm is the biggest in the world.  Don't get emotional. Stay logical . Salaam.

LOL

Come on, Are you sure you have read this??

1. Are you sure you read this??

54:19. Lo! We let loose on them a raging wind on a day of constant calamity

69.
6. And as for Aad, they were destroyed by a fierce roaring wind,
7. Which He imposed on them for seven long nights and eight long days so that thou mightest have seen men lying

Can  you read the difference between the two statements??

Chapter 54:19 said that a wind was set loose to them on a day,  It doesn't mention how long it lasts

Chapter 69: 6-7 This gave the duration of the calmity, 

Any conflict here??

2. Another wrong shot

SURAH 19
17. And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a
perfect man.
18. She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God fearing.
19. He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
20. She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste!
21. He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation
for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.

Surah 3

42. And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above
(all) the women of creation.
43. O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship).
44. This is of the tidings of things hidden. We reveal it unto thee (Mohammad). Thou wast not present with them when
they threw their pens (to know) which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou present with them when
they quarrelled (thereupon).
45. (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name
is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto
Allah).

There is absolutely no contradiction here, the dialogue is totally different,    I don't know how you could see this as a conflict,  Come on.  

3. I love this particular one because it shows the miracle of the Quran,

28: 40. Therefor We seized him and his hosts, and abandoned them unto the sea. Behold the nature of the consequence for
evil doers!

10:92. But this day We save thee in thy body that thou mayest be a sign for those after thee. Lo! most of mankind are
heedless of Our portents.

The first verse talks about the death of pharaoh, The second talks about the preservation of Pharaoh's body as a sign for us today,  No contradiction,  So the Question is ,  Has pharoah's body being preserved??

The body of pharoah was found and still lies in a Cairo museum as an open miracle of the Holy Quran, for those who pay heed to the signs of Allah. Yes, the body of the pharaoh of the bible was preserved by Allah, 

The Question is why do you remain Heedless

Don't google islam because you will find a lot of hate sites coming up with baseless allegations like the ones trashed out above,

You can find useful links at www.linkstoislam.com

It is from God and there exists no contradiction,  No matter how hard you try,

hymen:

Oga,your calculation ,confuses me more. Isn't strange that a book without any error requires further interpretation by mere human beings? Like I pointed out earlier,the reason I brought this up is not to cast aspersion on the graet religion of Islam ,but to silence people like Lagos Shia who believes he has all the nswers,frankly nobody does. We can only try.

The wisdom in the Quran is immense, but that verse is pretty straightforward , 4 + 2= 6, the first 2 and 4 are not mutually exclusive, It talks about the earth and the next verse talk about the heavens


God knows best

tbaba1234:

The wisdom in the Quran is immense, but that verse is pretty straightforward , 4 + 2= 6, the first 2 and 4 are not mutually exclusive, It talks about the earth and the next verse talk about the heavens


God knows best

I appreciate your civility & I dnt want this to degenerate so I wnt take u on each point.

But you know Allah meant the Koran to be very clear,why all the calculus na

(This is) a Book, whose verses are made decisive, then are they made plain, from the Wise, All-aware:

Qur'an 11:1

hymen:

I appreciate your civility & I dnt want this to degenerate so I wnt take u on each point.

But you know Allah meant the Koran to be very clear,why all the calculus na

(This is) a Book, whose verses are made decisive, then are they made plain, from the Wise, All-aware:

Qur'an 11:1

Aunty, read the verse na!!, it is pretty simple

tbaba1234:

Aunty, read the verse na!!, it is pretty simple

With all your 4+2 = 8, mutually exclusive sequencing of vectors abi na quadratic equation

Brother ,I have read the Qu'ran many times & I know what Im saying.

Lol, when did simple addition become quadratic?? ,

Anyways, like i said, it is impossible to find an error in the Quran, 1,400 years and more, There r lots of frivolous attempts at finding errors but they are so easily refuted,

I pray God guides you to islam,

Peace

@Hymen,its not a threat anyway,its its an advice,if you think am bringing dogma as you said,
Check
these surah 84:29-35
Surah 39:54-56
Surah 18:105-106
Since you said,am giving you dogma which in anyway dont exist in Islam but in other religion and mostly christianity which is the facets of it is full of dogma,now you know the fact from dogma.

Also,you dnt have the right to silent lagosshia just because he knows what he should know as a muslim,if you say so,that means you have to silent all knowledgeable muslims too including Lagosboy,because for crying out loud,Lagosshia has done nothing,he hass not boasted in his writtings,so why would you wanna silent him?Lagosshia is merely doing what he is commanded to do by Allah and the messenger,we are commanded to read,seek knowledge and make use of it and even teach others,so my dear,its fun and excitement when a muslim wanna or make others that dnt know about the religion know better.dnt be biased ok,since its not only lagosboy that knows Islam here.

uplawal:

@Hymen,its not a threat anyway,its its an advice,if you think am bringing dogma as you said,
Check
these surah 84:29-35
Surah 39:54-56
Surah 18:105-106
Since you said,am giving you dogma which in anyway dont exist in Islam but in other religion and mostly christianity which is the facets of it is full of dogma,now you know the fact from dogma.

Also,you dnt have the right to silent lagosshia just because he knows what he should know as a muslim,if you say so,that means you have to silent all knowledgeable muslims too including Lagosboy,because for crying out loud,Lagosshia has done nothing,he hass not boasted in his writtings,so why would you wanna silent him?Lagosshia is merely doing what he is commanded to do by Allah and the messenger,we are commanded to read,seek knowledge and make use of it and even teach others,so my dear,its fun and excitement when a muslim wanna or make others that dnt know about the religion know better.dnt be biased ok,since its not only lagosboy that knows Islam here.

The line in red is dogma. Check your dico if u need more clarification.

I have nothing against LagosShia,on the contrary I really want to know more about Shia Islam.

Wha i was saying was that I was responding to his posts.

@Hymen,it will be difficult to know Allah the way you keep changing your mouth up and down,you said you wanna silent lagosshia because you said he thinks he knows all,if you wanna know,nobody knows all but Allah(swt),even though he has given us the Quran to guide to truth,we still dnt say we know best but Allah knows best, now you are changing your mouth,saying you dnt have anthing against him,i tell you again,becareful,cos whatever we say or think is recorded,and its always better to seek forgiveness immediately if you fall into errors like this rather than changing mouth.I pray youre guided,amin.

Also,you said i should check dico as if i dnt know what dogma means already,what should i check there?
In the first place you said,i should give you facts and not just my personal,emotional answer,and that i should not load you with dogma,and that even though my advice may make me feel better but it does not answer your question, did i preach for you with bible or other religion books,no i dnt,but just told you christianity and other religion is dogmatic,and i gave you reference from the Quran to support the alledged dogma you said am loading you with,i also told you that Islam/Quran is void of dogma,yet you changed your mouth outlining what i wrote as dogma,yes christianity is dogmatic,but its not christianity you meant to be dogma before,you actually meant the advice i gave was dogma,and i went to gave you references since theres nothing called dogma in Islam,so pls dnt change mouth,admit your error,as nobody is exempted from error,and seek forgiveness rather than changing mouth.

@Hymen: « #329 on: Yesterday at 08:26:42 PM »
[Quote]Please note that I love muslims and I feel many aspects of Islam are divinely inspired.{/Quote]I pray to Allah that you will realize that divine inspiration, benefiting you, while you are still on this plain, so that the benefit will continue to the other plain, where we shall meet our Maker, singly without help against Him. Amin.


[Quote]I'm posting this in response to your post above.
Here are a few contradictions in Quran I can pick from the top of my head:
1. Sura 54:19 mentions Aad was destroyed in a day but 69:6,7 mentions Aad was destroyed in seven nights and eight days;[/Quote]Allah says in verse in 54/19 "Indeed, We sent upon them a screaming wind on a day of continuous misfortune,". As I read this, it means that calamity begins on that day when the screaming wind descended on them. Continuous misfortune part gave an inclination that it didnt end with just the screaming wind that started it. You only get the length of the period of misfortune, as it continued and lasted for 7 Nights and 8 Days. This is very clear since 54/19 did not elaborate, except that it gave a beginning and stated that it continued, which length you will get at 69/6,7.
A poor illustration of current event that help to make it clearer is the US shock and Awe night over Baghdad which ushered in the war that is still going on, a human created misfortune on another human.


[Quote]2. Sura 19:17 shows an angel appeared to Mary but 3:42 shows several angels appeared;[/Quote]Surah 19/17 did not mention Angel or Angel (Malaika or Malaikatu). It says "Ruhana fa ta mathala laha basharan", Spirit (Gabriel) appearing to her in form of a man (Bashar). Thats what she saw. How many other Angels present? She didnt see them, but Allah the Sender knew their numbers. This is similar to Angels were commanded to prostrate to Adam (AS). The One who didnt prostrate was Iblis. He was said to be a disbeliever by such an action and others. A casual observer may take Iblis to be an Angel, therefore. But Surah Kahf let us know when the story was repeated that Iblis, is a Jinn, who happened to be in the company of the Angels, therefore commanded just as well. Surah 19/17 does not disagree with  Surah 3/42, each is a piece of the collage of a complete story. Allah gives them in piece meal so that at the end the story is vivid and people who Allah give wisdom will understand it.


[Quote]3. Sura 28:40 mentions pharaoh drowned and died but 10:92 states that the same pharaoh was saved[/Quote]The body was simply saved, for two reasons. The less obvious was to calm down the anxious children of Israel who looked at the lifeless body of their arch enemy laying out on the back, in the Egyptian side. They definitely know that the enemy is now dead and will not be running after them to return them to the life that they hated. The very obvious reason is recorded in the Quran, that was stated at the time of his soul is being extracted, being at that time becoming a believer, Allah says his body will be "saved" as a sign, a clear example of the end of evil doers. Whats so interesting here is that when people see the body or picture of this once powerful man, no one pays attention to the fact that he is naked, placed where ever he is placed, a far cry from what he used to be him, in manner of loftiness and grandeur. That is the end of evil doer. Look at Ariel Sharon of Israel; weathering away. Very similar to this same Pharaoh. Go on Youtube, you will see the eerie similarity.


[Quote] Like my grandmother used to say - everyone believes his fathers farm is the biggest in the world.  Don't get emotional. Stay logical
.Salaam.[/Quote]Grandma is a wise woman. I hope she is alive, still. May Allah guide her to Islam, through you, as He guided my women folks. Amin.[/quote]

@Hymen: A woman delivered a twin birth in two years; 2010 and 2011. How many pregnancies, except 1?

This is similar to when Allah say He created heavens and earth in 6 days.

When you read about the creation of heavens and earth, you will at least see that were one unit, before they were cleaved apart. Creation of these two objects were simultaneous, taking up two days. Allah beautified the earth for you to see for 4 days. If you, a human being can do multiple things at the same time, like walk and chew gum, or talk and type, or sit and think, or even many of these and more all in the same time, do you expect your Creator not to be able to handle just as much?

a very small appeal to "hymen",please when next you say there is error in the Quran,and you are asked where,dont tell us where and then use your own words to "make it look" like an error.simply post the Quranic verses (indicate the translation) so that we can read them and see if there is really error there.

just posting the verses is all that is needed.dont use your own words to distort the Quran or what it says.i would've posted the verses myself,but the brothers and sisters have done a good job.well done!

Firstly i think we should not condemn hymen we should try and explain to her, emotions in this situation may not help her learn.
My reply to hymen:

That God should have made the Quran very clear and not require explanation from people: God himself did not intend it to be that way. He sent the Books and He also sent messengers to explain these Books. Human beings by their nature will give meanings that suit them to the Quran if there is not nobody to explain them. The people to explain the Quran is firstly the Prophet(SAW) himself, after him the companions around him and pious knowledgeable scholars who follow the Quran and the Sunnah in each generation. I am sure you know that even national constitutions are not left to ordinary citizens to interprete, it will generate confusion. That is why there are Supreme and other courts, judges and lawyers.

As for the punishment of the 'Ad people. Read the 2 verses again. The first verse says the punishment wind was sent to them in a day, the 2nd verse mentioned about how long it lasted.

As for angel(s) appearing to Maryam. What you were referring to are 2 different occasions. An angel appeared to her in 1 occasion and many angels appeared to her in another occasions.

Pharaoh being saved also means his body being preserved as has been mention

Lastly, the Islam's article of faith are to believe in 1) Allah, 2) His messengers, 3)His angels 4)His Books 5) Destiny and 6) the Last Day. Rejecting any of these (like saying one of the messenger lied or there is a mistake in one of His Books) is like rejecting faith which is like Kufr(disbelief). May Allah guide and protect all of us from this.

My take is that whoever goes to the Quran with a clear and neutral conscience will be guided by the Almighty Allah, I did that without guidance from nobody in the quest for truth and Alhamdulilah I found the the light and my heart is at peace now.

for i.e., in my first few days of reading the Quran, I got confused when I read Allah referring to Himself as I in some cases and We/ Us in other cases. I asked someone who could not explain as well. But I kept going back wanting to 'know' until I discovered the simple explanation which is also obvious in the Yoruba language , and many other languages across the world, where pluralism is used to depict respect.

This is usually the situation of many, most of the acclaimed contradictions are simply explained in the same chapter if only they'll read on,

I can only continue to say Alhamdulilah for guiding me to the truth till date.

@Ronkeenuf,Likewise me too,ALHAMDULLILAHI

Abuzola !:
Fact about The basis and strife between Abubakr and Ali, fatimah,


Narrated 'Aisha:

Fatima the daughter of the Prophet sent someone to Abu Bakr (when he was a caliph), asking for her inheritance of what Allah's Apostle had left of the property bestowed on him by Allah from the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) in Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus of the Khaibar booty. On that, Abu Bakr said, "Allah's Apostle said, "Our property is not inherited. Whatever we leave, is Sadaqa, but the family of (the Prophet) Muhammad can eat of this property.' By Allah, I will not make any change in the state of the Sadaqa of Allah's Apostle and will leave it as it was during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, and will dispose of it as Allah's Apostle used to do." So Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself. When Fatima was alive, the people used to respect 'Ali much, but after her death, 'Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him. So Ali sought reconciliation with Abu Bakr and gave him an oath of allegiance. 'Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (i.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death). 'Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that 'Umar should come, 'Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No, by Allah, you shall not enter upon them alone " Abu Bakr said, "What do you think they will do to me? By Allah, I will go to them' So Abu Bakr entered upon them, and then 'Ali uttered Tashah-hud and said (to Abu Bakr), "We know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the good what Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us in the question of the rule and we thought that we have got a right in it because of our near relationship to Allah's Apostle ."

Thereupon Abu Bakr's eyes flowed with tears. And when Abu Bakr spoke, he said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is to keep good relations with the relatives of Allah's Apostle is dearer to me than to keep good relations with my own relatives. But as for the trouble which arose between me and you about his property, I will do my best to spend it according to what is good, and will not leave any rule or regulation which I saw Allah's Apostle following, in disposing of it, but I will follow." On that 'Ali said to Abu Bakr, "I promise to give you the oath of allegiance in this after noon." So when Abu Bakr had offered the Zuhr prayer, he ascended the pulpit and uttered the Tashah-hud and then mentioned the story of 'Ali and his failure to give the oath of allegiance, and excused him, accepting what excuses he had offered; Then 'Ali (got up) and praying (to Allah) for forgiveness, he uttered Tashah-hud, praised Abu Bakr's right, and said, that he had not done what he had done because of jealousy of Abu Bakr or as a protest of that Allah had favored him with. 'Ali added, "But we used to consider that we too had some right in this affair (of rulership) and that he (i.e. Abu Bakr) did not consult us in this matter, and therefore caused us to feel sorry." On that all the Muslims became happy and said, "You have done the right thing." The Muslims then became friendly with 'Ali as he returned to what the people had done (i.e. giving the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr).

Sahih bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 546:

ANALYSIS OF THIS HADITH!
In analyzing this hadith, I will only cite 100% other Ahlu sunnah works and books that reported this event rather than one source. If you however see me as a Shi'a who 'will only' support the ahl al-bayt and protect his creed, then question the rationale of those ahlu sunnah references first .

THE HADITH
The hadith highlights two main event that took place after the demise of the holy prophet(saws):
1. Fatima's demand of 'inheritance of her father'.
2. 'Allegiance' of Imam Ali for the first caliph, Abu bakar.

The narrator of this hadith recorded by al-bukhari was Aisha, daughter of Abu Bakar. She ONLY reported her father's argument against the request of Bibi Fatima's demand. It is very unlikely that Fatima did not talk back... rather Aisha concluded that she was angry and did not talk to her father until she died.

The truth is that the event was more than the report of Aisha. Going through other Sunni works, following are deduced:

1. Fadak was secured without battle, and whatever is gained in this context is called 'Fay' which 100% belong to the holy prophet (Q. 59:6). Ref: Tarikh, al-Tabari vol. 1 p. 1582; Tarikh al-kamil, Ibn Athir vol. 2 p. 224 etc.

2. Prophet (saws) had given Fadak (land) to Fatima as gift in accordance with Allah's command "And give to the near of kin his due..." (Q. 17:26).
Ref: Ad-Durr al-Manthur, as-Suyuti, vol4 p177; Kanzul Ummal vol. 3 p. 439; etc etc.

3. When Fatima demanded her right of Fadak, Abu Bakar refused saying he heard the prophet (saws) who says: ""Our (prophets of God) property is not inherited. Whatever we leave, is Sadaqa..."

NB: Ahlu sunnah prominent scholars: Ibn Hajar and Jalaludin Suyuti, opined that this claim of Abu Bakar was not heard or reported from any other companions.
QUR'AN!
"And Solomon inherited David..." Q. 27:16
"...so grant me from yourself an heir who shall inherit me and inherit from the family of Yaqub" ~Q.19 :5-6.

4. Fatima protest (to Abu bakar): "You have taken over possession of Fadak although the prophet had gifted it to me during his lifetime"
NB: Fadak was no more an inheritance but a gift from father to daughter!

Abu Bakar asked Fatima to produce her witness. She brought Imam Ali and Ummu Ayman. (Ref: al-Sawaiq Muhriqa p. 32; wafa'al wafa vol.3 p. 1000 etc)

5. Abu bakar turned her witness down despite the quality of those witness, saying "two men or One man + 2women" (Q. 2:282)could only be accepted. She brought her sons Hassan and Hussain; yet...

NB: Jabir Ibn Abdullah claimed, after the death of the holy prophet (saws),that the prophet promised him a gift. Abu Bakar simply ask him to swear by God; him being his own witness! (Ref: Bukhari vol. 3 p. 119, 209; vol. 4 p. 110; vol. 5 p. 218; Fatih al-bar fi Sharh sahih al-bukhari, vol. 5 p. 380)

6. "Abu Bakar was on the pulpit when Fatima came to him and said, "O Abu Bakar, the Qur'an should allow your daughter to inherit you but I am not to inherit my father." Abu Bakar started weeping and alighted from the pulpit; then he wrote for her about Fadak. At that time Umar arrived and inquired what was it. Abu bakar explained...Umar collected the letter and tore it, what will you spend on the muslims if war broke out" (Ref: Sirah Halabiyyah vol. 3 p. 361-362 quoting Sibt al-Jawzi)

7. The most daring part of Aisha's narration was her report of Fatima's anger!
Holy prophet (saws): "Fatima is part of me and I am part of her; whoever angers her anger me" (sahih Muslim, Mustadrak etc)
In another narration:
"Allah is angered and displeased when Fatima is angered and displeased".

If Fatima's displeasure is synchronized with Allah's, it is an indication that Allah's protection and guidance is on her all the time. Therefore she can only get angered on something based on injustice.

8. The anger was so much that she instructed Ummu Ayman not to allow anybody to enter on her when she dies. Aisha and Abu bakar were never allowed to enter (Ref: Sunan al-kubra vol. 3 p. 396; Ansab al-Ashraf vol. 1 p. 405; al-Isti'ab vol. 4 p. 1877, 1898; etc )

9. If Abu Bakar's claim of Fadak was right, why does Uthman ibn Affan, 4th caliph gave his cousin Marwan Ibn Hakam the possession of Fadak, during his reign? (Sunan al-kubra vol. 6 p. 301)

10. Why does Umar Ibn Abd al-Aziz returned back Fadak to the descendants of Fatima, during his khilafah, claiming it is their right?

One part of the hadith analyzed rem. The other part!

Salam.

Abuzola !:
Fact about The basis and strife between Abubakr and Ali, fatimah,
... 'Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him. So Ali sought reconciliation with Abu Bakr and gave him an oath of allegiance. 'Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (i.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death). 'Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that 'Umar should come, 'Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No, by Allah, you shall not enter upon them alone " Abu Bakr said, "What do you think they will do to me? By Allah, I will go to them' So Abu Bakr entered upon them, and then 'Ali uttered Tashah-hud and said (to Abu Bakr), "We know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the good what Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us in the question of the rule and we thought that we have got a right in it because of our near relationship to Allah's Apostle ."

... 'Ali said to Abu Bakr, "I promise to give you the oath of allegiance in this after noon." So when Abu Bakr had offered the Zuhr prayer, he ascended the pulpit and uttered the Tashah-hud and then mentioned the story of 'Ali and his failure to give the oath of allegiance, and excused him, accepting what excuses he had offered; Then 'Ali (got up) and praying (to Allah) for forgiveness, he uttered Tashah-hud, praised Abu Bakr's right, and said, that he had not done what he had done because of jealousy of Abu Bakr or as a protest of that Allah had favored him with. 'Ali added, "But we used to consider that we too had some right in this affair (of rulership) and that he (i.e. Abu Bakr) did not consult us in this matter, and therefore caused us to feel sorry." On that all the Muslims became happy and said, "You have done the right thing." The Muslims then became friendly with 'Ali as he returned to what the people had done (i.e. giving the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr).

Sahih bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 546:

If we prove to you the contrary even in your valued books of history that Ali and his associates were forced (chained) to give allegiance to Abu bakar, you will vehemently accused us of questioning the "veracity of al-Bukhari" as if its immune from error as Qur'an.
However, suffice it is to ask you if the above-quoted hadith is true(that Ali make friendship with Abu bakar et al);

Why was history kept mute during the(almost) 2 decades of the Caliphacy of Abu bakar, Umar and Uthman altogether the Non-involvement of Ali ibn Abi Talib in the state of affairs of the muslims?

No doubt Ali was the most active figure throughout the entire prophet-hood of Muhammad. He fought many war being the standard bearer of Islam, he single-handedly shamed many notable infidels in single combat, he participated actively in both political, social and spiritual development of Islam during the life-time of Nabi Muhammad (saws).

Where was he in these donkey years of these first 3 caliphs? Even non-worthy individuals got their share in "helping Islam" in one way or the other but why the non-involvement of this best servant of Islam?

This is a testification that the above-mentioned hadith is full of inaccuracy. Since you've made Sahih al-Bukhari to be your yardstick and disregard any other books of your ulama, then it is hard to arrive at the truth.

Abuzola !:
                              Excellence of Abubakr, umar and Uthman




    Narrated Anas bin Malik:

    The Prophet once climbed the mountain of Uhud with Abu Bakr, 'Umar and 'Uthman. The mountain shook with them. The Prophet said (to the mountain), "Be firm, O Uhud! For on you there are no more than a Prophet, a Siddiq and two martyrs.

sahih bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 24:

"Word of truth mixed with lies" ~Imam Ali (a.s)

Note: Even before the proclamation of the prophet-hood of Muhammad, history had it that non-living things, trees, mountain, animals etc always recognize the presence of the holy prophet (saws). So I see no reason why the mountain of Uhud will not recognize the prophet of mercy.

On the other hands,
Why would mountain of Uhud not shook with them (Abu bakar, Umar and Uthman) when Qur'an and history exposed and condemned those who ran away from the battle of Uhud and left their prophet exposed only to be protected by Ali, Abbas et al?

It is evident that these personalities were among those who fled from the battle of Uhud to the point that sahih sittah recorded somebody asked Umar why was he running away? He said: "that's Allah's decree!"

Please go back and read the Tarikh (history esp Tabari, Ibn Athir, Suyuti, etc) and different Tafsir on the battle of Uhud.

The wording: "Be firm, O Uhud! For on you there are no more than a Prophet, a Siddiq and two martyrs"
Are no other than lies and additions of the Banu Umayyad fabricator.