Even before the republicans come to the white house for the "bipartisan" talks on important issues, Obama has sacrificed federal workers, most of whom vote drmocrat. Negotiation has not started and he has sacrificed part of his base.

The republicans want to cut benefit for the poor while maintaining tax cut for the rich. Obama can't even take that case to the public. I envy republican voters, they must be relaxed knowing that thier representatives won't let them down. Democrats just go to DC and negotiate away the expectations of their base. Thak God pelosi remained behind to check obamas naivety. Imagine if she left, democrats will have Obama, Reid and Hoyer as their leaders in DC. Lol.

Dude, stop talking about my president like that While he may be weak in certain aspects, he is certainly not a chicken

@topic, look prez, the hallmark of a truly democratic society is not one where one party system or ideaology reigns supreme and doesn't entertain outside thought or dissent - but rather a healthy, balanced diet of both common-sense conservative and liberal ideas.

I am happy Obama wants to talk to republican leaders. What do you want him to do? sit in the white house, pout his lips and whine? or rather engage and yes - make concessions because he does not have all the right answers. Nothing will ever get done if both sides do not compromise. Republicans will sabotage any democratic bills in the house - Democrats will return the favor in the Senate. Who really loses? we the people. Please leave Obama to the slurpee summit - this has the makings of possibly returning the spoilt brats on Capitol hill back to the same table to work out their issues - if not by choice, then by force of the current split btw house/senate.

@ pres. Please try to think with common sense instead of ideology some times. Millions of Americans are losing jobs in d private sector, yet payment packages for federal workers only ever seem to rise. While everyone else is tightening their belt, laying off workers and closing operations. D federal government just keeps doling it out. This federal pay freeze is long overdue and it makes sense. If a leader doing what is best for the state of a depleted treasury, is being chicken, long may it continue.

Pres-elect

why are you always complaining about US politics? I expect you should be more interested in what is happening here in Britain where you live and the conservatives are frying the students. You don't talk about Cameron as much as you talk about Obama. I'm going to finish school with a huge debt. What say you?

The fact that Obama is being defended by jesoul and montelik sums it all. Obama is happily biting the hand that fed him. I'm too upset to post more.

Otele, I can't stand Cameron, too upset to even comment on British threads.

pres-elect:

The fact that Obama is being defended by jesoul and montelik sums it all. Obama is happily biting the hand that fed him. I'm too upset to post more.

Otele, I can't stand Cameron, too upset to even comment on British threads.

You mean d same hand that just gave his party, administration and largely his agenda a thorough "shellacking" at d November polls (Dems lost d house of reps, lost a number of senate seats including Obama's old seat in Illinois, they also lost d lead they had in state governorships, not to mention the drubbing they took in state legislature races. Its was an a** kicking). D republicans just enjoyed their biggest electoral victory since the 1940's. Obama is seeing that people want him to listen to what other people (those evil Republicans) are saying. And if he were to listen to advice like yours, there may not be a Dem party left after d 2012 elections.

Sharrap!

It takes guts to push through Healthcare reform. Obama is no chicken.

If some niggas got laid off, then am afraid that's the economic reality. The markets will turn their eyes to Yankee sov debt after they finish with Ireland. Yankee cannot ignore the tolling bell.

@topic,

Obama weak? Absolutely. He is in over his head and is no more sure of what to do than a deer in headlights. Here is someone who has never managed anything in his life and yet finds himself as President of perhaps, the biggest empire the world has ever known. I don't blame him though, I blame the many ignoramuses that voted him President. I blame the Republican Party that presented a very weak candidate to run against him. I blame his many worshippers, like Pres-elect who make him feel that he is the next best thing to Christ. I blame the media that refused to do their job of vetting him properly. I blame the establishment that gave us style over substance.

On the other hand, I do not blame Pres-elect for the way he feels. Afterall, Obama was a clean canvass and everyone projected on him an image they hope for in a President. This explains Pres-elect's dissapointment. Tell us Pres, what do you know of Obama's record and antecedents that makes you feel he will do this and much more for you? What did he do or achieve in office prior to being the POTUS that gave you confidnece that he will pull through for you?

How are you different from those who think that Obama will buy them new houses and renovate their kitchens from the stash he keeps in the WH? Why should your outcome be different from those who through the last 3 generations have been waiting on the govt to make them rich even though they do not work? Everything isn't all about politics. I am perplexed and alarmed at the destination this country is heading. The biggest problem we have is not the rich, it is the government. The rich did not mortgage our future to China, this was the exclusive preserve of those in govt. Please desist from this class envy and get real. Last I checked, the $25,000 that has being witheld so far from my income this year was not done by a rich man, but by those in Washington. You have not yet identified your real problem.

Tayo-D:

Tayo-D link=topic=559737.msg7248819#msg7248819 date=1291165441:

@topic,

Obama weak? Absolutely. He is in over his head and is no more sure of what to do than a deer in headlights. Here is someone who has never managed anything in his life and yet finds himself as President of perhaps, the biggest empire the world has ever known. I don't blame him though, I blame the many ignoramuses that voted him President. I blame the Republican Party that presented a very weak candidate to run against him. I blame his many worshippers, like Pres-elect who make him feel that he is the next best thing to Christ. I blame the media that refused to do their job of vetting him properly. I blame the establishment that gave us style over substance.

On the other hand, I do not blame Pres-elect for the way he feels. Afterall, Obama was a clean canvass and everyone projected on him an image they hope for in a President. This explains Pres-elect's dissapointment. Tell us Pres, what do


know of Obama's record and antecedents that makes you feel he will do this and much more for you? What did he do or
achieve in office prior to being the POTUS that gave you confidnece that he will pull through for you?


How are you different from those who think that Obama will buy them new houses and renovate their kitchens from the stash he keeps in the WH? Why should your outcome be different from those who through the last 3 generations have been waiting on the govt to make them rich even though they do not work? Everything isn't all about politics. I am perplexed and alarmed at the destination this country is heading. The biggest problem we have is not the rich, it is the government. The rich did not mortgage our future to China, this was the exclusive preserve of those in govt. Please desist from this class envy and get real. Last I checked, the $25,000 that has being witheld so far from my income this year was not done by a rich man, but by those in Washington. You have not yet identified your real problem.

foolish post. Next time you are bored just go and kiss Sarah palin's photo.

NEXT PLS

Tayo-D:

@topic,Obama weak? Absolutely. He is in over his head and is no more sure of what to do than a deer in headlights. Here is someone who has never managed anything in his life and yet finds himself as President of perhaps, the biggest empire the world has ever known. I don't blame him though, I blame the many ignoramuses that voted him President. I blame the Republican Party that presented a very weak candidate to run against him. I blame his many worshippers, like Pres-elect who make him feel that he is the next best thing to Christ. I blame the media that refused to do their job of vetting him properly. I blame the establishment that gave us style over substance.On the other hand, I do not blame Pres-elect for the way he feels. Afterall, Obama was a clean canvass and everyone projected on him an image they hope for in a President. This explains Pres-elect's dissapointment. Tell us Pres, what do you know of Obama's record and antecedents that makes you feel he will do this and much more for you? What did he do or achieve in office prior to being the POTUS that gave you confidnece that he will pull through for you?How are you different from those who think that Obama will buy them new houses and renovate their kitchens from the stash he keeps in the WH? Why should your outcome be different from those who through the last 3 generations have been waiting on the govt to make them rich even though they do not work? Everything isn't all about politics. I am perplexed and alarmed at the destination this country is heading. The biggest problem we have is not the rich, it is the government. The rich did not mortgage our future to China, this was the exclusive preserve of those in govt. Please desist from this class envy and get real. Last I checked, the $25,000 that has being witheld so far from my income this year was not done by a rich man, but by those in Washington. You have not yet identified your real problem.

Are you in any way related to Sarah Palin? Or just on cheap drug?

The fact that Tayo D is a crackhead should be obvious by now.

I see that I have touched some nerves. To think that all I get in response to my salient points are juvenile attacks on my person reveals the depth of hero worship we are up against. When people gloss over incompetence through sheer ignorance and blind optimism, what we have is unmitigated disaster- Obama anyone?

Why are you people attacking Tayo now?  While I'm less critical of Obama I certainly share his astonishment at the incredible delusion some of his followers seem to be imprisoned in. See this woman -

[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI?fs=1&hl=en_US"[/flash]
"I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car, I won't worry about paying my mortgage . . . If I help him, he's gonna help me"
fyi, pls ignore the racist idiotas under the comment section.

montelik:

@ pres. Please try to think with common sense instead of ideology some times. Millions of Americans are losing jobs in d private sector, yet payment packages for federal workers only ever seem to rise. While everyone else is tightening their belt, laying off workers and closing operations. D federal government just keeps doling it out. This federal pay freeze is long overdue and it makes sense. If a leader doing what is best for the state of a depleted treasury, is being chicken, long may it continue.

My brother please help me tell him jare. And amen to the last part.

Prez,
I will defend Obama when I feel he's making a good move. Making a reasonable concession does not equal weakness in my opinion. Obama is president to the entire country - not just his "base". What kind of president will that be whose decision-making is driven solely out of selfish political interest to appease and remain in good standing with his "base"?

Jesoul

A leader should be a good negotiator. Negotiation is about give and take. I give this, you give that. That's why the liberals were angry with the healthcare bill. He should have started with single payer British style, then when push comes to shove, he'll end up with public option for some republican votes or blue dog democrat votes, but he gave up that and went straight to public option, and ended up with no public option and no republican vote. Now he wants to negotiate with republicans( good luck with that) and even before the meeting, with people who snubbed his invitation two weeks ago, he has given up a negotiation point. What nonsense? Is this how he negotiates internationally with thickheads like Russia?

As for his base, he made promises, he asked we taKe him at his word, the least we can do is expect him to at least make an attempt to fulfill his promises, even if he doesn't succeed. These are what he campaigned on. Just like the tea party is out for tax cut and repealing healthcare which they campaigned on. How can his base trust him again. I noticed dear pelosi did not make any statement after the meeting. I hope I read her well. Somebody has got to stop Obama from becoming a republican.

Jesoul,

Don't even get me started on clueless palin supporters. My biggest hero on television is bill maher, and I agree with him when he said the average American voter is clueless. Majority of palin supporters font even know that palin supported the bail out. There are millions of clueless palin fans. That's why palin can talk rubbish and her base stands with her and if the media notices, it is called media attack. Compare that to obamas supporters who shout at him when he missteps. Before the midterm Obama was heckled in new York and in California By his supporters. He thinks he is being the nice guy. NO. You are seen as weak. That's why as POTUS he can call a meeting of republicans and they snub him, claiming to be busy. That's why republicans can stand on a nuclear treaty with Russia and refuse to budge. Weak. That's why he will be a one term president.

pres-elect:

Jesoul

A leader should be a good negotiator. Negotiation is about give and take. I give this, you give that. That's why the liberals were angry with the healthcare bill. He should have started with single payer British style, then when push comes to shove, he'll end up with public option for some republican votes or blue dog democrat votes, but he gave up that and went straight to public option, and ended up with no public option and no republican vote. Now he wants to negotiate with republicans( good luck with that) and even before the meeting, with people who snubbed his invitation two weeks ago, he has given up a negotiation point. What nonsense? Is this how he negotiates internationally with thickheads like Russia?

  If your complaint is he is not a good enough negotiator - that's fine. But it'll be really nice to see you applaud a good move regardless of whether it was accomplished thru push and shove or complete surrender. Obama had ideas for HC that the American people did not want - period and being a "good negotiator" in that instance would not have indicated he was a better leader. You listen to your people, explain your ideas (there he failed) and then make a decision. Not simply impose your own self-annointed "superior" ideas on an entire nation, and then corner them into bending to your will. Nobody said being a president would be easy - so I don't feel sorry for the tough choices and decisions he has.

As for his base, he made promises, he asked we taKe him at his word, the least we can do is expect him to at least make an attempt to fulfill his promises, even if he doesn't succeed. These are what he campaigned on. Just like the tea party is out for tax cut and repealing healthcare which they campaigned on. How can his base trust him again. I noticed dear pelosi did not make any statement after the meeting. I hope I read her well. Somebody has got to stop Obama from becoming a republican.

Here I agree you have legitimate beef and reason to be upset. We expect (against better judgement and history) our politicians to actually live up to their campaign chant-lines. But the truth is (and Tayo tried to point this out) that many of his promises were very ambitious, some outlandish from the get-go. I mean see the vision the woman in that video had of what Obama was going to do for her. If all you're saying is you'd like him to simply try harder - that's fine.

However, I believe of these great expectations his supporters have for him, most will go unattained. There is no skeleton key that will turn the locks on America's conservative-centrism and make America a liberal paradise. Perhaps the wise move is to simply lower your expectations - and considerably so.

pres-elect:

Jesoul,

Don't even get me started on clueless palin supporters. My biggest hero on television is bill maher, and I agree with him when he said the average American voter is clueless. Majority of palin supporters font even know that palin supported the bail out. There are millions of clueless palin fans. That's why palin can talk rubbish and her base stands with her and if the media notices, it is called media attack. Compare that to obamas supporters who shout at him when he missteps. Before the midterm Obama was heckled in new York and in California By his supporters. He thinks he is being the nice guy. NO. You are seen as weak. That's why as POTUS he can call a meeting of republicans and they snub him, claiming to be busy. That's why republicans can stand on a nuclear treaty with Russia and refuse to budge. Weak. That's why he will be a one term president.

Clueless people abound everywhere Prez. And please, get a new hero - not a senile old hag so caught up in the severe delusion of his own self-ascribed intelligence. One who sees nothing good in anyone or anything who does not worship on the same altar of secularism he does. He chants America is dumb, he needs to look no further than 1 inch outside his balding head to see the prime example of what happens when common sense takes a leave of absense. I used to like him a lot - until the screws obviously came loose.

  As for the other parts of your quote. I actually agree with you - take that dude! 

Jesoul,
this thread is about negotiating ability. Never mind someone came here and started trying to change it and looking for blames. You and I can never agree on what is right or wrong policy. The healthcare bill you say American people don't like, I agree, but I think they don't like it bc it is not enough. You may think the bill is too much. So we can always disagree on policy. There clueless voters in every county and party, when Obama campaigned that tax cut is for middle class he wasn't on drugs. This thread is not about which tax policy is better but about Obama being weak in negotiations. When liberals see tax cuts for the rich, and unemployment benefits for the poor stopped, do you think there'll be turnout of liberals like 2008? NO! Democrats are still in charge in DC.

Now I hear GOP has made a statement to oppose everything the democrats try to do on the lameduck except tax cut. Just after the meeting with Obama, the negotiator. Lol.

@ Jesoul. Why did you bring out that poor ladies statements again. Abeg lets leave people like her, Joe the plumber and co out of d spotlight

pres-elect:

Jesoul,
this thread is about negotiating ability. Never mind someone came here and started trying to change it and looking for blames. You and I can never agree on what is right or wrong policy. The healthcare bill you say American people don't like, I agree, but I think they don't like it bc it is not enough. You may think the bill is too much. So we can always disagree on policy. There clueless voters in every county and party, when Obama campaigned that tax cut is for middle class he wasn't on drugs. This thread is not about which tax policy is better but about Obama being weak in negotiations. When liberals see tax cuts for the rich, and unemployment benefits for the poor stopped, do you think there'll be turnout of liberals like 2008? NO! Democrats are still in charge in DC.

Okay that much I definitely give to you. I was just trying to show how having a high-negotiating prowess may not necessarily be a positive in some situations.

Now I hear GOP has made a statement to oppose everything the democrats try to do on the lameduck except tax cut. Just after the meeting with Obama, the negotiator. Lol.

Now that is one thing I am on your side with. I don't agree when statements like "we will oppose democrats/republicans no matter what" are made. They are infantile and indicative of the brat-ish nature leadership has fallen to. There are very few adults left on Capitol Hill . . . lets hope they are enough to actually do something.

montelik:

@ Jesoul. Why did you bring out that poor ladies statements again. Abeg lets leave people like her, Joe the plumber and co out of d spotlight

Oga the thing just funny me anytime I hear am  can you imagine someone actually believed that would happen to her if Obama became president? and no one took the time then to bring her back down to reality and discourage others from such crack-pipe dreams.

@Pres,

this thread is about negotiating ability. Never mind someone came here and started trying to change it and looking for blames.

If only you will let your thinking overide your frivolous emotions, then you will clearly see how this issue was addressed in my very first post. If I may ask again, what evidence did you have from Obama's previous services in the Private or Public sector of the economu that gave you the confidence that he will be able negotiate and bring to pass the promises that you think he made during the campaign. Like I said, this is a case of Obama not living up to the image that people built in their minds.

You and I can never agree on what is right or wrong policy. The healthcare bill you say American people don't like, I agree, but I think they don't like it bc it is not enough

Is that so. I hope and pray that Obama feels the same with you. I will sure like him to at this point, plan to expand the bill. That will be a conservative's dream come true.

You may think the bill is too much. So we can always disagree on policy. There clueless voters in every county and party, when Obama campaigned that tax cut is for middle class he wasn't on drugs.

What tax cuts are we talking about? The debate right now is if there will be a tax increase or not. We are talking about either taxes going up or remaing at the existing rate. Where is the tax cut in that? People are being sold a bill of goods here.

Jesoul
like I said, this thread is about obama's negotiating ability. He doesn't need a phd to know how to negotiate.

@JeSoul,

Now that is one thing I am on your side with. I don't agree when statements like "we will oppose democrats/republicans no matter what" are made. They are infantile and indicative of the brat-ish nature leadership has fallen to. There are very few adults left on Capitol Hill . . . lets hope they are enough to actually do something.

I see you have fallen for one of the lies being peddled here. What lie you ask? This big, fat one: "GOP has made a statement to oppose everything the democrats try to do on the lameduck except tax cut." You have to learn to challenge the premises and basis of every Liberal's argument because they are usually founded on lies such as the above.

What the Republicans have said is very different. What they have said is that no issue will be taken up until the issue of making the Bush tax cuts permanent for all Americans is addressed. Coupled with that is that they want a budget to fund the government done before any other legislative item is addressed. Tell me, what is more important at this crucial "Obama Depression" than job creators knowing the cost of doing business as well as putting the govt under strict budget? Liberals depend on ignorance to govern. Americans are much more enlightened than that.

^Tayo you're right - I should've made that distinction in my post.

I was speaking more in general terms. Its often to hear dems/repubs say they'll frustrate the efforts of the other party to get any bills passed. That is the attitude many americans are tired of. In this instance saying they want to focus on accomplishing the tax issue before anything else I think is a fine move, it'll force them all to address it, and I think it will be addressed.

As a side question, the tag-line "the Bush tax-cuts for the wealthy" . . . I wonder which category of people are being refered to here as 'wealthy'. Do you know? Households making more than $100,000 & above or is it $250,000 above?

Tayo-D:

If I may ask again, what evidence did you have from Obama's previous services in the Private or Public sector of the economu that gave you the confidence that he will be able negotiate and bring to pass the promises that you think he made during the campaign. Like I said, this is a case of Obama not living up to the image that people built in their minds.

Gbam left right and center. That woman in the video thought Obama would buy her gas and pay her mortgage and extreme example but is indicative of the truly unrealistic expectations his believers placed on him.

like I said, this thread is about obama's negotiating ability. He doesn't need a phd to know how to negotiate.

Pres,

I believe President Obama has great negotiating skills. He started his Presidency good but he waited too long to delegate powers. The critics need a face to associate with their issues and for the first year of office, Obama repeatedly presented his face on every controversial domestic issue - including the Havard Police and Professor Gates episode.

There were many times when he could have delegated powers to his cabinet secretaries but he choosed to face the camera and defend issue after issue. He became too intimate and familiar to the public and in the process lost the majesty of his office. Colin Powell came out, along with some other people like George Soros, and advised that the President need to ease off on speeches and personal involvement on common issues. He eased off but it was too late!

for any interested, here's a nice article breaking down the whole tax-cut/rate issue.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-30/bush-tax-cut-puzzle-has-six-pieces-that-need-to-fit-together-with-brackets.html

If the Bush tax cuts are so special, why are they not creating the jobs to offset the depression?

Some niggas are really deluded.

Old Sayian law multiplier coefficients are weaker in these days of outsourcing. The multiplier effect on jobs is ever shrinking. You give Tayos employer tax break and he will only plot how to replace Tayo with Chinese man. . .or go and open new branch in China.

Some niggas are too emotional. I can just imagine some punks of wavering disposition banging their head on their car window whilst listening to Rush Limbaugh, looking like an emotionally imbalanced crackhead during rush hour.

@Ibime,

If the Bush tax cuts are so special, why are they not creating the jobs to offset the depression? Some niggas are really deluded.

If the tax cuts are so bad, why is everyone in agreement that it should be extended? Never mind that some are using it for class envy politics by calling for extension only for the group that translates to a bigger voting block!!!!

Old Sayian law multiplier coefficients are weaker in these days of outsourcing. The multiplier effect on jobs is ever shrinking. You give Tayos employer tax break and he will only plot how to replace Tayo with Chinese man. . .or go and open new branch in China.

This is so dumb I can't believe that it's coming from Ibime. You mean by increasing the cost of doing business through heavier taxes, my employer will not outsource to China but he will do just that if his cost of doing business is reduced? What are you smoking my friend?

Some niggas are too emotional. I can just imagine some punks of wavering disposition banging their head on their car window whilst listening to Rush Limbaugh, looking like an emotionally imbalanced crackhead during rush hour.

This is an apt description of Pres-elect. Wetin the guy do you now?

@topic,

Talking about the Bamster's legendary negotiating abilities, does anyone remember the failed Chicago bid for the Olympics? The Bamster along with his wife, Michelin carried the dignity of the office of the President of the United States half way around the world only to be humiliated by a resounding rejection of his plea. He must think all he needs to get his way was just to show up and everybody will start genuflecting and acquiescing to his every demand. But of course with no prior experience to teach the guy otherwise, the many adoring fans he has must have given him a false illusion of the real world.

Russia just won the bid to host the World Cup. Putin pulled strings from afar and only travelled after he knew Russia's bid was successful. He joined in the celebration of the win. I hope our Executive-Intern President will learn some lessons from that. I wouldn't hold my breadth though, he appears way too narcissistic to think he can learn from other people.

I actually opened this thread for the sake of obama's weak negotiating ability, now I know some people have been banging their heads on their car window since Obama became president, and will bang it for two more years, if they don't have a heart attack, but let's try and keep to topic and not discuss tax cuts for the rich which created millions of imaginary jobs as well as creating the massive economic crises from mr Bush.

@topic,

Talking about the Bamster's legendary negotiating abilities, does anyone remember the failed Chicago bid for the Olympics?  The Bamster along with his wife, Michelin carried the dignity of the office of the President of the United States half way around the world only to be humiliated by a resounding rejection of his plea.  He must think all he needs to get his way was just to show up and everybody will start genuflecting and acquiescing to his every demand.  But of course with no prior experience to teach the guy otherwise, the many adoring fans he has must have given him a false illusion of the real world.

Russia just won the bid to host the World Cup.  Putin pulled strings from afar and only travelled after he knew Russia's bid was successful.  He joined in the celebration of the win.  I hope our Executive-Intern President will learn some lessons from that.  I wouldn't hold my breadth though, he appears way too narcissistic to think he can learn from other people.

when I talk of foreign negotiation, I meant real foreign policy like defence treaties etc, not sports, lol. Ok I know you are bored again, go back to your room and look at that naked Sarah palin photo on your wall and enjoy your fantasies. Aight!