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How Christians Pray - Religion - Nairaland

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How Christians Pray by otuwe(f): 11:21am On Jun 04, 2007
where did the church going christains learn how to pray by jumbing up and down and binding and casting.

at least that was not what christ taught us on how to pray,

i want to know where this binding and casting originated from (holy ghost fire, )
Re: How Christians Pray by thesilent1(m): 1:12pm On Jun 04, 2007
Another biblical variable that affects our lives is the spiritual battle raging between the forces of good and evil in the realm beyond our five senses. Remembering from Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 how much power and wisdom God originally gave “Lucifer” should help us to understand how formidable a foe we now have, and how diligent we must be in resisting him.

If you read Daniel 10:1-14, you will see that Daniel saw a vision from God, but he did not know what it meant, so he asked God to show him. Three weeks later an angel showed up. He told Daniel that his prayer had been heard when he first prayed, and that he had at once left “Angel Headquarters” to bring him the answer.

So why did it take him three weeks to get there, you ask? Because Daniel did not have enough faith? No, it was because “the prince of the kingdom of Persia” withstood the angel twenty-one days. Of course this “prince” was not a human being, but a high-ranking, territorial evil spirit. We do not know the details of their confrontation during those three weeks, but this account makes it clear that the spiritual battle raging beyond our senses may be the reason why certain prayers take time— a little or a lot— to be answered.

Daniel’s attitude, however, is pivotal in this record. At the end of one day of prayer, he did not say to God, “Oh brother, you give me a vision and no explanation, and now you’re asleep up there! I quit!” Then twenty days later an angel pulls in and says, “Where’s Daniel?” No, it didn’t happen that way. Daniel continued to have faith and look to God, and he did receive the answer to his prayer.

A verse in the Church Epistles illustrates this same truth.

1 Thessalonians 2:18
For we wanted to come to you— certainly I, Paul, did, again and again— but Satan stopped us.

The Greek word for “stopped” was “used of impeding persons by breaking up the road [as by digging a trench across it], or by placing an obstacle sharply in the path.” [1]

We see that, in the temporal realm, God is not totally in control of all circumstances. But He and His Son are right in there with us, working to help us go over, under, around or through whatever obstacles the Devil puts in our paths. In Acts 14 we read that Paul was stoned, yet through the prayers of the saints the power of God healed him. [2]

God is not a spiritual vending machine, where we just push a button and out pops what we need. Often we must hang in there for quite a while, as Job did, and continue to expect God’s deliverance. In the context of spiritual warfare, it is significant that our heartfelt praise to God is a catalyst to help roll back the forces of darkness (2 Chron. 20:22). [3] No matter what happens, we have the ultimate victory— everlasting life in the age to come.

First, let me state that I believe prayer is one of the most underused and underestimated tools that we, as Christians, have to wage war in the heavenlies. Prayer is unlike speaking in tongues or prophecy because most of the time we do not see God’s power manifest itself immediately and in our “I want it yesterday” society it is very difficult for us to wait on anything. Many of us, including myself, struggle with this because not seeing immediate effects often discourages us.

That being said, I want to address what the Bible says about prayer. Ephesians 6:12 says that “our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” This tells us that in order to combat a spiritual darkness, we will need to use a spiritual weapon. We cannot always rely on doing what appears to be practical or logical because there may be a spiritual force working behind the scenes that we cannot see. Because of this, if we choose to respond in a way that seems reasonable, without first seeking the Lord’s will in prayer, then we may have unforeseen results and consequences in our lives.

The Bible gives us very specific directions on when to pray and why. Ephesians 6:18a says to “pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.” We can see that prayer should almost always precede action because we should always be in prayer on every matter. You can quickly see that if we were to follow this intense pattern of prayer in our own lives our prayer would be a constant source of guidance for the actions we take.

This theme of praying before acting is apparent in Acts as we look at the first century church. In Acts 1:20-26 the church must decide who will replace Judas. This is done by prayer and casting of lots. They sought the Lord in prayer for the appropriate action to take. Again in Acts 13:3 before sending Paul & Barnabas off they prayed over them. And Paul, in Acts 28:7-8, prays before attempting to heal a sick man. Acts 1:14a says the church “joined together constantly in prayer.” It is clear that the early church knew the importance of not only praying before making major decisions, but also in praying constantly.

We also see examples in Scripture where there is no action proceeding prayer because prayer is all that is required. Many times events will be out of our control and all we can do is pray in order to open up doors for God to work.

When Paul and Silas are in prison (Acts 16:25-26) there is nothing they can physically do to change their situation. They are locked in a prison cell, bloodied and beaten, and although it was not God’s will for them to be in prison, there was certainly no way they could leave on their own. However, when Paul and Silas prayed, God was able to move, bringing a mighty earthquake that shook the very foundation of the prison, loosing both the chains and the doors.

Daniel shows us a very powerful example of prayer and the importance of praying so that God can move. In Daniel chapter 10, Daniel says that he went into mourning for three weeks so that he could receive a vision from God. For three weeks he neither ate nor drank but spent his time praying for God to give him direction.

When an angel finally appeared to him, one of the first things he said was “Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.” This should greatly encourage us. Even though from Daniel’s perspective it had taken three weeks to receive a word from God, the reality was that God heard immediately and responded. The reason for the angel’s delay was a spiritual one, and hence one Daniel could not see. It is for this very reason that we should not be discouraged when we do not immediately see or hear a response to our prayers because God hears them and will respond if we are persistent just as Daniel was.

Jesus also talks about the importance of persistence when we talk to God. In Luke 18:1-5, he tells a parable about a widow who seeks justice from a judge. When he does not grant it, she continues to come back to him until finally he gives in to her. Now, this is not to say that we must somehow “break” God’s will in order to receive what we want. But Jesus was showing the importance of continually laying our needs at God’s feet. It is very easy to pray for something once and then just hope that God will do something. It is another thing altogether to have the perseverance to pray about it daily until you receive an answer.

So if it is clear that we are not to act rashly but give all things up to God in prayer, then I assert that prayer is the foundation for a consistent spiritual walk with God. Prayer is simply talking to God, and consistent communication is at the core of every healthy relationship. If we do not talk to our loved ones and our friends, than over time, our relationship with them will begin to suffer. We will become more distant with them and they will slowly become less and less a part of our life.

By the same token, the less we pray to God the more our relationship with Him will suffer. We will become more distant from Him and our intimacy with Him will suffer as well. However, there is hope in all of this.

The hope is in making a point to talk to God daily and to begin to develop patterns and habits in our daily life in which talking to God becomes second nature for us. The more we develop our communication with God the more we will see Him work in our lives because He will be active and present at all times. We will begin to see more prayers being answered because we will be more in touch with what God is doing. So if we are not seeing this in our own lives we might ask ourselves, “How often am I going to God and asking?”

The last idea I want to look at is that prayer stands on its own. It does not need us to do anything and God can move quite well when you simply pray and give Him an open door. James 5:16b says, “The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” We cannot overlook the simplicity of this verse. Neither can we add to it. If Scripture tells us that prayer is powerful and effective then we must believe it. We must stop relying on our own strengths to accomplish things for God and start trusting that God truly can do all things. But, Scripture balances this idea and we must too.

The biggest need for balance is in doing what we know is right rather than simply devoting it to prayer. Some Christians believe that they have no obligation to do anything other than pray. In fact, you can often hear them give an almost robotic response when people approach them with a problem or when they have a problem in their own life. “I’ll be sure to pray about it.” They say this as if it is somehow the only answer, and their only obligation. Matthew 7:9 says, “Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?” If someone is in need and all you do is offer to pray, when you can in fact give, than you are in effect offering them a stone. The first century church knew this and put it into practice very effectively.

Acts 4:32 says, “All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.” They were so good at doing this that verse 34 says, “there were no needy persons among them.”

So, we must balance prayer before action with what we know to be right. It is right to help the poor so we should do so when we can and without hesitation. It is right to love our neighbor so we do not need to pray before making a decision to love them because God already tells us we should. So, the next time we face a decision we should ask ourselves, “Has God already given me the answer in His word?” If not, we should seek out His will in prayer and He will be faithful to respond. We do not always need to think that some action is required on our part in order for our prayers to be effective.
Re: How Christians Pray by charka: 8:12am On Jun 05, 2007
my guy, this epistle has not answered the questions.

Christ taught us how to pray (The Lord's Prayer)

He also said Love your enemies,

if you love your enemies then why then do u send Holyghost fire to burn them, Can u send holyghost fire on your family or yourself for that matter because Christ said Love your neighbour as yourself,



I think the present mode of prayer is even still a handwork of Lucifer,
Re: How Christians Pray by thesilent1(m): 8:34am On Jun 05, 2007
I think the present mode of prayer is even still a handwork of Lucifer

and what mode is that?
Re: How Christians Pray by otuwe(f): 5:46pm On Jun 06, 2007
i think charka is talking about the binding and casting, cos its not wat Christ taught. He said love your neighbour not course ur neighbour, i think the new way of praying is a method lucifer adopted to deceive us into thinking we are actually praying while we are busy abusing our fellow human being in the name of binding and casting and sending holyghost fire to them
Re: How Christians Pray by TayoD(m): 6:12pm On Jun 06, 2007
@topic,

We have been forbidden in the New Testament from wrestling with flesh and blood.  Rather, our warfare is against principalities, powers and spiritual entities in high places. It is sheer ignorance that make people pray for physical harm on people. Our job is to pray for our enemies - Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. It is up to God to avenge us of people who persecute us 2 Thessalonnas 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

However, it is possible that a man who makes himself available for demons to use as a tool could become a victim when those demons are dealt with. When Jesus delivered that mad man of Gadara, the swine went into the river and drowned when the legion of evil spirits went into them. This goes to prove what Jesus said that the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. Those demons would have prefered to drown the man instead of the swine when they were be cast out. !!!

Luke 4:35 testifies to the fact that demons would hurt their host when they are dealt with. Jesus had to forbid the demon from hurting its victim in Luke 4:35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

In almost all the cases where Jesus cast out demons, you will notice it invloves a struggle and a time period for the deliverance to be fully complete. It is a warfare as thesilent1 indicated above!
Re: How Christians Pray by otuwe(f): 3:56pm On Jun 07, 2007
TayoD:

@topic,

We have been forbidden in the New Testament from wrestling with flesh and blood.  Rather, our warfare is against principalities, powers and spiritual entities in high places. It is sheer ignorance that make people pray for physical harm on people. Our job is to pray for our enemies - Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. It is up to God to avenge us of people who persecute us 2 Thessalonnas 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

However, it is possible that a man who makes himself available for demons to use as a tool could become a victim when those demons are dealt with. When Jesus delivered that mad man of Gadara, the swine went into the river and drowned when the legion of evil spirits went into them. This goes to prove what Jesus said that the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. Those demons would have prefered to drown the man instead of the swine when they were be cast out. !!!

Luke 4:35 testifies to the fact that demons would hurt their host when they are dealt with. Jesus had to forbid the demon from hurting its victim in Luke 4:35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

In almost all the cases where Jesus cast out demons, you will notice it invloves a struggle and a time period for the deliverance to be fully complete. It is a warfare as thesilent1 indicated above!


can't u see that you're contradicting yourself. first u say we are forbidden to pray for physical harm to our enemmies yet u turn around and say it is a warfare,

stop using quotations to confuse yourself.

back to the original question which has not been answered, where did that mode of prayer originate from.

can't the churches open their eyes and see that they are going the wrong way, what happened to mattew 6 where Christ Himself taught us how to pray,

nowadays the Christains have forgotten the message Christ brought rather they are following the ways of their various pastors(including rev king), disgusting!!! embarassed
Re: How Christians Pray by barikade: 4:08pm On Jun 07, 2007
@otuwe,

otuwe:

where did the church going christains learn how to pray by jumbing up and down and binding and casting.

I really don't know what you mean by jumping up and down; but here binding and casting is taught in the Bible:

Matt. 12:29 -- Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matt. 18:18 -- Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mark 16:17 -- And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.

otuwe:

at least that was not what christ taught us on how to pray,

I hope the verses above would be helpful. Christ taught us more things on prayer than most people have read of in the Bible.

otuwe:

i want to know where this binding and casting originated from (holy ghost fire, )

A few have been given just above. Cheers.
Re: How Christians Pray by TayoD(m): 5:04pm On Jun 07, 2007
@Otuwe,

can't u see that you're contradicting yourself. first u say we are forbidden to pray for physical harm to our enemmies yet u turn around and say it is a warfare,
Warfare with whom? I mentioned specifically the warfare is against principalities and powers. Didn't you get that oer you are just here to spew out your hatred on others?

stop using quotations to confuse yourself.
You are obviously the confused one. Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood, BUT rather agaisnt principalities and powers! Isn't that warfare to you?

back to the original question which has not been answered, where did that mode of prayer originate from.
bari_kade provided good answers for you.  Hopefully you'd take the scriptures for what they and end your confusion right here!

can't the churches open their eyes and see that they are going the wrong way, what happened to mattew 6 where Christ Himself taught us how to pray,
Matthew 6 is only one of the many ways Christ taught us to pray. How about His prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane? How about his casting out of demons and the likes - the prayers of ITEO (hope I got that greek spelling right)!

nowadays the Christains have forgotten the message Christ brought rather they are following the ways of their various pastors(including rev king), disgusting!!!
So far, you haven't proved anything. It is wrong to pray against flesh and blood but you are in order praying against principalities and powers. You cannot tell principalities and powers to fall down and die (because they cannot die), rather, you can bind them and cast them out as required!
Re: How Christians Pray by TellyB(m): 7:53am On Jun 09, 2007
@topic,

Although the initial concerns were more about some practices the originator is averse to, I think it would be great for us Christians to share what we know on the subject of prayer. Perhaps a good place to start:

Acts 6:4 - 'But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.'
Re: How Christians Pray by Aproko(f): 12:43pm On Jun 13, 2007
@ topic,

is 'jumping up and down' referring to the prayer session in some churches? cos i dont think the catholics and anglicans 'jump up and down'

well since the bible says the violent shall take it by force, i guess 'jumping up and down' is part of being violent and therefore taking things by force!!! grin grin grin grin
Re: How Christians Pray by Rhea(f): 1:20pm On Jun 13, 2007
Jesus was quite clear on how to pray. However, our born-again christian brothers and sisters nowadays believe that channeling their prayers into 150dB loudspeakers facing my bedroom at 5am every morning, and snapping their fingers simultaneously like T-Pain would make the Lord Almighty hear their prayers.

Sometimes i wonder if God has a hearing problem.

I vividly remember that each time I need something done by someone, all i need do is approach him/her and ask him/her politely in a very low tone. he/she ususally assents to my request. I wonder why people resort to having a chat/sending a message to God (a spiritual being) by shouting and jumping up and down like Daddy Showkey as a sign of reverence/respect.

Jesus was also clear about loving our friends and enemies alike. When you bind and cast them into the sahara desert, it probably displays an unending love for both your enemies and the unfortunate inhabitants of the Sahara.

Even our forefathers knew better.
Re: How Christians Pray by otuwe(f): 1:29pm On Jun 13, 2007
Aproko:

@ topic,

is 'jumping up and down' referring to the prayer session in some churches? because i don't think the catholics and anglicans 'jump up and down'

well since the bible says the violent shall take it by force, i guess 'jumping up and down' is part of being violent and therefore taking things by force!!! grin grin grin grin

thats a funny one. lmao grin grin


You are obviously the confused one. Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood, BUT rather agaisnt principalities and powers! Isn't that warfare to you?

are u now a follower of paul and not of Christ. by the way are u now saying the warfare there is Physical, then u really dont understand ur bible. do u think u can beat the "principality and power" by shouting in ur prayers, i dont think so



I really don't know what you mean by jumping up and down; but here binding and casting is taught in the Bible:

Matt. 12:29  -- Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matt. 18:18 --  Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mark 16:17 --  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.

all these have nothing nothing to do with the present mode of prayer in churches. maybe u dont to these new churches and u dont see wat happens there in the name of prayer. pls lets open our eyes and look deep inside then we wud realise there is something wrong

Warfare with whom? I mentioned specifically the warfare is against principalities and powers. Didn't you get that ?

if its against principalities and power then do u shout and dramatise so much as if u are fighting with a human being. Prayer requires silence, serenity (thats why Jesus wud always go to the wilderness) this jumbing up and down doesnt take us anywhere.

oer you are just here to spew out your hatred on others

i dont even carry hatred within me thats why im bothered abt the way pple pour out so much hatred in their prayer all in the name of binding and casting their enemies. i try to love my enemies the way Christ taught me instead of sending holyghost fire upon them



Rhea:

Jesus was quite clear on how to pray. However, our born-again christian brothers and sisters nowadays believe that channeling their prayers into 150dB loudspeakers facing my bedroom at 5am every morning, and snapping their fingers simultaneously like T-Pain would make the Lord Almighty hear their prayers.

Sometimes i wonder if God has a hearing problem.

I vividly remember that each time I need something done by someone, all i need do is approach him/her and ask him/her politely in a very low tone. he/she ususally assents to my request. I wonder why people resort to having a chat/sending a message to God (a spiritual being) by shouting and jumping up and down like Daddy Showkey as a sign of reverence/respect.

Jesus was also clear about loving our friends and enemies alike. When you bind and cast them into the sahara desert, it probably displays an unending love for both your enemies and the unfortunate inhabitants of the Sahara.

Even our forefathers knew better.

i love you dear, your eyes are open. dont mind those pple who have been deceived by their pastors
Re: How Christians Pray by Kemjisuper(m): 1:33pm On Jun 13, 2007
Hey y'all, remember that we're in the last days and the Good book clearly states that there will be an abundance of false prophets and stuff. I think it's only going to change for the worse. It's just a clear fulfillment of the scriptures. Cheers
Re: How Christians Pray by babefieka(f): 2:25pm On Jun 13, 2007
hey peeps
the prolem is that we bahave lyk the hypocrites
bible never said jump or shout
we all know that God is not deaf
we can still pray without shouting and jumping making our supplications known to God
as 4 the binding and casting, maybe wen we pray 4 our enemies and love our neighbors
some things like principalities and powers will give way
christains should go back to the bible and understand it
unite and stop building churches evry where lyk we r not of the same religion
then the principalities and powers will know their places
Re: How Christians Pray by otuwe(f): 2:38pm On Jun 13, 2007
babe_fieka:

hey peeps
the prolem is that we bahave like the hypocrites
bible never said jump or shout
we all know that God is not deaf
we can still pray without shouting and jumping making our supplications known to God
as for the binding and casting, maybe when we pray 4 our enemies and love our neighbors
some things like principalities and powers will give way
christains should go back to the bible and understand it
unite and stop building churches evry where like we r not of the same religion
then the principalities and powers will know their places

i feel u jare.
ppeopl have been blinded by their pastors very soon their eys go open like rev kings people lets just hope it wont be too late.

one advice for the house,
try to undertand every single message given to u
dont just be quoting up and down both the ones u know and the ones u dont
Re: How Christians Pray by ccaramel(f): 2:48pm On Jun 13, 2007
Mountain of fire to be precise grin
Re: How Christians Pray by gaby(m): 3:46pm On Jun 13, 2007
Im venturing into church business soon and my kinda church will be one of its kind where prostitutes,thieves,smokers (cracks and what-not-users)drunkards and all are welcome and as a matter of fact all these will be entertained in my church during and after service so there will be enuff higness for casting and binding wetin dem no see!!!!
Kapishhhhhhhh
Re: How Christians Pray by thesilent1(m): 3:49pm On Jun 13, 2007
However, our born-again christian brothers and sisters nowadays believe that channeling their prayers into 150dB loudspeakers facing my bedroom at 5am every morning, and snapping their fingers simultaneously like T-Pain would make the Lord Almighty hear their prayers.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: How Christians Pray by PapaBrowne(m): 4:15pm On Jun 13, 2007
Forget about how this Church or that Church does this or has done that.
The purpose of Christianity is not the organisation called Church but is You.Christ didn't die for Church, He died for you.
God does not recognise you as a Catholic, Anglican, Protestant or whatever.He identifies you by the state of your heart which naturally determines whether or not you are walking with Him or working with sin.

Truth is many Churches might have gotten things wrongly, but who are you to judge which is right or wrong.God is going to judge us and not the Church we belong.

As per the Topic; You, pray your own prayer.How another person is praying should not be your problem.You-How are you praying? Do you pray at all? Do you commune with God at all. If you don't, what is the moral justification for castigating or judging others? There's none.

I think we should all always go to the bible and seek the truth in genuineness for ourselves.God will help us to understand through his spirit.
Re: How Christians Pray by BlackMamba(m): 4:19pm On Jun 13, 2007
Religion is phony like that. Any one can read these holy books set in medieval times and come up with a self-serving interpretation. Any question of their belief is met with quotes from their holy books, often detached from the original context the statement was made.
Re: How Christians Pray by caustic(f): 4:22pm On Jun 13, 2007
cheesy grin cheesy grin cheesy cheesy grin grin grin

In as much I do not want to commit no BLASPHEMY, I , must say NAIRALAND is full of KOLO individuals ! cheesy cheesy cheesy , when you're down, LOG ON TO NAIRALAND,,,,,,,,, BINDING AND JUMPING  ha ha ha !!  cheesy cheesy grin tongue
Re: How Christians Pray by barikade: 4:32pm On Jun 13, 2007
@otuwe,

otuwe:

i love you dear, your eyes are open. don't mind those people who have been deceived by their pastors

Leaving "those people" for a moment, could you share with us what you believe prayer to be according to God's Word?
Re: How Christians Pray by Aproko(f): 4:57pm On Jun 13, 2007
bari_kade:

@otuwe,

Leaving "those people" for a moment, could you share with us what you believe prayer to be according to God's Word?


am not otuwe, but i must say that the last time i checked, Jesus Christ said 'if then ye must pray, pray then like this', and he went ahead and gave the Lord's prayer.(i'll have to find that verse)

jesus christ has taught me how to pray by giving me the Lord's prayer which says everything I need to say to the Almighty, i dont see the need to battle serpents and scorpions when the same bible has told me they shall not harm me. if indeed jesus has fought the battle like we christains say 2000yrs ago, do i really have to bother with the loudspeaker and jumping and shouting?

i guess not.
Re: How Christians Pray by ricadelide(m): 5:10pm On Jun 13, 2007
@ otuwe,
otuwe:

if its against principalities and power then do u shout and dramatise so much as if u are fighting with a human being. Prayer requires silence, serenity (thats why Jesus would always go to the wilderness) this jumbing up and down doesnt take us anywhere.
Do you have an idea how Jesus prayed, do you think he was being silent when, during prayer, his 'sweat was like drops of blood'. Maybe you have never been in an agonizing prayer situation before.

Let me give you an idea how Jesus prayed; Heb 5.7
"During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." (emphasis mine)

so much for your 'silent Jesus prayers'. Jesus prayed in agony and loud cries.

Like someone has addressed before, 'our warfare is not against persons with bodies (ie humans) but against spiritual beings'. Those who pray that their fellow man die are missing the mark in that regard. But that is a totally different issue entirely from whether we ought to pray silently or not. Again, to re-emphasise, we are to love our enemies not pray against them. But we have enemies who are not human, and we are not commanded to love them but rather wrestle and fight them. Eph. 6;12, James 4;7. Those are two different things. And if you've ever being in true spiritual warfare before, no one needs to tell you before you groan and shout from the spiritual intensity of such battles.

Just to help you understand the issue further; here is another verse; Romans 8;26
"In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express." again, emphasis mine.

If you don't understand something, you don't have to conclude that 'these people are being decieved by their pastors'. Except of course you want to say that we are being decieved by our bibles. i'd oblige you.
Re: How Christians Pray by barikade: 5:43pm On Jun 13, 2007
@Aproko,

Aproko:

am not otuwe, but i must say that the last time i checked, Jesus Christ said 'if then ye must pray, pray then like this', and he went ahead and gave the Lord's prayer.(i'll have to find that verse)

Perhaps this:

Matt. 6:9-13 -- After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

(also Luke 11:1-4)

Aproko:

jesus christ has taught me how to pray by giving me the Lord's prayer which says everything I need to say to the Almighty, i don't see the need to battle serpents and scorpions when the same bible has told me they shall not harm me. if indeed jesus has fought the battle like we christains say 2000yrs ago, do i really have to bother with the loudspeaker and jumping and shouting?

i guess not.

The tangential inferences are not the core concerns of my enquiry to otuwe. However, I very much appreciate ricadelide's post just above, as it covers most of what you might have raised in yours.

Cheers.
Re: How Christians Pray by Aproko(f): 5:57pm On Jun 13, 2007
historians do not know who wrote the book of hebrews!!! so if we do not know who wrote the book, how do we really know that jesus offered petition with loud cries and tears??

again if jesus taught us to pray the lord's prayer, are you inferring that he is contradicting himself by offering petition with loud cries instead of praying as he has taught us?
Re: How Christians Pray by Olufidu(m): 7:19pm On Jun 13, 2007
To start with, Christ said we should love & pray for our enemies, cool.  cool  But, I have not seen it in my bible where He said we should pray for evil powers - refer to as principalities & power, spiritual wickedness in high places

For those that say some Christians pray against their enemies, please be informed that it is evil powers that they pray against and not mere powerless human foes. The logic is this: human beings are all born equal without any mystical or magical power. We are all born BLANK - so to say - without any spiritual powers. Now, some folks do possess some power which they acquired through consultation with demons (which are falling angels) and they use this power to oppress fellow human beings especially those that do not have Christ. So, what Christians do with their "fire" and Holy Ghost prayers is to disarm them of these evil powers through spiritual warfare. Then, pray, as Jesus commanded, for them (the human foes)  to be delivered (from these powers) and have their salvation. So, if one does not love these "enemies", would one go through the warfare, deliverance and salvation prayers for them? Well, that is simply the way to "love" your enemies in obeying the commandment of our Lord Jesus Christ. But mind you, some hard-core, die-hard agents that have sold their lives to satan will choose to die rather than allow themselves to be divested of these evil powers, and in that case christians can't do nothing other than to allow them you have their wishes. sad  slaves that love their chains will forever live in bondage!


Back to the main topic, there are levels to prayers. One can pray quietly or otherwise as the spirit moves - there is no hard and fast rule about it. But some warfare prayer will not be effective if one does not enforce one's authority with firm tone. Basically, warfare is commanding evil powers to do what they don't want to do and they will resist. If you guys could go throuhg book of Acts, you will find  ".  .and they lifted up their voices" several times,  so loud prayer is not strange in Chritiandom. Furthermore, when Jesus got to the grave of Lazarus, the bible recorded that " . . and he cried in a LOUD voice":

John 11:43

   "When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out!" 44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
     Jesus said to them, "Take off the grave clothes and let him go."


Also, how did Jesus pray on Mount Olives? Let's see in:

Luke 22:44
And being in an agony [of mind], He prayed [all the] more earnestly and intently, and His sweat became like great [Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.] clots of blood dropping down upon the ground.


A prayer that brougth about sweat described as "clot of blood" obviously could not have been a "bread and butter" one. I leave you guys to fix an appropriate picture for it.

If anyone has any question, please keep it coming. cool

. ,  and did someone mention "Mountain of fire" Watch what you say, for angelic slap could be felt physically.  grin grin grin

Shalom
Re: How Christians Pray by goodguy(m): 11:21pm On Jun 13, 2007
Hi Aproko,

Aproko:

historians do not know who wrote the book of hebrews!!! so if we do not know who wrote the book, how do we really know that jesus offered petition with loud cries and tears??

The messenger or the message - which is more important to you?  Okay, let me ask you:-  Are you a Christian?  If yes, do you have a Bible?  If yes, does your Bible have the book of Hebrews in it?  If yes, do you quote or make reference to any part of it?  If yes, then what's the fuss all about?

Aproko:

again if jesus taught us to pray the lord's prayer, are you inferring that he is contradicting himself by offering petition with loud cries instead of praying as he has taught us?

No, Jesus was not contradicting himself.  As a matter of fact, The Lord's Prayer is simply the model of prayer that Christ taught us.  The Lord's Prayer is far more than just a regular recitation at the end of every gathering.  Jesus only broke it down for us for easier understanding.  He simply surmarized how we should pray to The Lord (more like prayer points).  Let me explain.


Our Father who art in Heaven - Acknowledgement first.  You first of all need to acknowlegde who you're praying to.  Pay obeisance to Him.

Hallowed be thy name - Venerate Him.  Praise Him.  Glorify Him.  Worship Him.

Thy Kingdom come - Acknowledge the 2nd coming of His Kingdom, in which the saints will reign eternally with Him.

Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven - Always ask for God's will to be done in your life (this is one of my regular and major prayer points).  Ask for His guidiance in all you do, so that your deeds will always be in accordance with His will.

Give us this day our daily bread - Then ask Him to provide for your needs, that He should bless you abundantly.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors - Ask for forgiveness of sins.  Ask him to wash away your iniquities and transgressions, as sins committed could really hinder one's prayers from being answered.

And lead us not into temptation - As temptations are inevitable for the true followers of Christ, ask God to help you overcome them whenever they come your way.

But deliver us from evil - Now, this one has been the bone of contention on this thread, if I'm not mistaken.  This is where the arguments of bari_kade, TayoD, thesilent1 and ricalide really surface.  Jesus knew fully well and understood the capabilities of the evil one, and that was why He included this in the prayer.  Since the battle is against principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of world, and against spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph 6:12); and as the saying goes "Heaven helps only those who help themselves", Paul already enjoined us in vs 11 to put on the armour of God so that we can be able to stand against the wiles of the devil -- that God may deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever - Conclusively, acknowledge His omnipotence one more time.  Praise and Glorify Him again.  Then. . .

Amen - You round off your prayer with an affirmative "So be it!".

I hope this helps.

I guess not.  Okay, I know you may be thinking, "This still doesn't explain why they have to shout and jump while praying".  To be honest, I also detest noise.  I believe one can easily get across to God even while praying within your mind.  Remember how Hannah prayed in Shiloh?  She didn't need to shout.  Infact, the Bible tells us, "Hannah spoke in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard" (1 Sam1:13).  But in reality, most people experience being in a "state of ecstasy" while praying, hence the thunderous noises and disturbing gesticulations.  So asking them why they're "shouting and jumping" will require asking some others why they cry while singing worship songs.  So you see, it's just the feeling. wink


Regards.
Re: How Christians Pray by caustic(f): 12:36am On Jun 14, 2007
@GOODGUY

WORD ! wink
Re: How Christians Pray by barikade: 7:47am On Jun 14, 2007
@goodguy, thanks for that good word! So refreshing to find something on the Forum that adds to my morning devotional read today! cheesy
Re: How Christians Pray by Aproko(f): 11:10am On Jun 14, 2007
@goodguy,

am i a christain? NO. why? because as much as i try to live like christ, i find out that i am more human so to speak than he was on earth and some times i fall short of being called christlike. so am not christlike but striving to be one.
do i have a bible? i do. have been trying to get the quoran too. just didn't find the one in english.

have i read the book of hebrews? oh yes. do i make reference to it? not in my every day life, so i would say no.

and which is more importantant the message or the writer? both because the writer may not have been there when jesus whom he seeks to write about was praying, so i ask, where did he get his gist?

if jesus had written anything down that would have been a different story, but when you are writing about aproko and yet you have never met aproko, the only question my dear good guy is how did you know? your name na aproko abi aproko na your sister?

jesus christ said, if ye must pray, pray then like this - the lords prayer. (and thanks for saying it all over again)

so why then do i have to 'jump up and down?'

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