Joagbaje:


Witchcraft is active and alive in America and other nations of the world. Try read the book. "HE CAME TO SET THE CAPTIVES FREE" by Dr Rebbecca brown . You will have some insights.

Many Americans are ignorant of the spiritual realm because they've given demonic activities fine fine names. From prolonged delusion to traumatic phycological jargons. Many of the cases in the psychiatric hospital are demonic cases. Though we can't deny the fact that many are medical . But the demonic cases can not be arrested medically. Many American minister come to africa to learn about this thing so that they. An help people over there.

Demons are everywhere and we must learn to cast them out. I was told about a lady that was mad , two years ago. I went to their house , I prayed , prayed  but no result. So I felt it was a medical case. I said they should take her to hospital , but they told me this thing comes up every year during raining season , it had cyst her her marriage. I sense it was demonic but since I couldn't get through to her  mind I said they should still take to hospital let her be put to sleep till her brain relax . So 2 days after, I sent for her , she was a bit ok Now she could talk. I asked her few questions . And my suspicion was confirmed. The demons spoke to me, "I AM FROM THE DEEP BLUE SEA" " I will DESTROY YOU" " I am queen of the sea" " I am serpent" and so on. I was confident now that this is not medical and I know my authority. I calmed her down, and led her to christ . Then I commanded those spirits out of her body, she began to move like snake on the ground and sticking out her tongues. Finallly after an hour or so , we were done , she became free. I sent her quickly to join our foundation school , she did all the classes.  She became a soul winner for christ. 2 years have passed and no more yearly reoccurrence.
 
But in the western nations , they will label them with a name and lock them in an asylum .You get into such hospital ward and shout the name of Jesus and see what happens.

It is modernism that make them deny such things over there . It was not always like this. British had their stories of witches historically . They even have cartoons for children. American had theirs . Where do you think horror films came from . American governme t don't want to accept that anything is beyond their control , they try to act as if they are in full control to win confidence. Many of those horror films are from real experience. "hunted" "devils advocate" "exorcists" etc.

Our system over here has not been overrun by modernism yet. But it may one day, if we allow legalism to over shadow 
Truth and reality. Satan is working gradually in the background by attacking church institution and denying miracles and the supernatural which are all part of the package of the gospel of christ. Christianity without supernatural is nothing but just another dead religion. 

There is no different types of Christianity . Only one which Jesus predicted 

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 

The problem is the level of revelations of God and ignorance in the heart of people. We are coming gradually to the unity of the faith , where walls of divisions will be broken down. And we understand our union and  onesss with christ.

Ephesians 4:13
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 

Kay 17:

I regard early christianity as dead, because the circumstances and cultural setting in which it operated is extinct. The concepts of jesus and god's relationship, heaven and hell, charity, communality were determined by the contexts of foreign religions and cultures.

hunger and conflict pave way for prosperity gospel with its stark contrast with early christianity.

imhotep:

Master: "Does God exist"?

Disciple: "Yes"

Master: "Wrong"

Disciple: "No"

Master: "Wrong again"

Disciple: "What's the answer?"

Master: "There is no answer".

Disciple:"Why ever not"?

Master: "Because[b] there is no question[/b]. If you[b] cannot say anything[/b] about Him who is beyond [/b]thoughts and words, [b]how can you ask anything about Him"?

imhotep:

Master: "What is it you seek"?

Philosopher: "Life"

Master: "If you are to live, words must die". You are lost and forlorn because you dwell in a world of words. You feed on words, you are satisfied with words when what you need is substance. A menu will not satisfy your hunger. A formula will not slake your thirst".

imhotep:

Philosopher: "I wish to see God".

Master: "You are looking at him right now"

Philosopher: "Then why do I not see him"?

Master: "Why does the eye not see itself. As well ask a knife to cut itself or a tooth to bite itself as ask that God to reveal himself".

imhotep:

WORDS >>

 The disciples were absorbed in a discussion of Lao Tzu’s dictum:   “Those who know do not say. Those who say do not know.”

 When the Master entered they asked him exactly what the words meant.

 Said the Master, “Which of you knows the fragrance of a rose?”

 All of them knew.

 Then he said. “Put it into words.”

Kay 17:

I also feel culture plays a great role in understanding religion. I regard early christianity as dead, because the circumstances and cultural setting in which it operated is extinct. The concepts of jesus and god's relationship, heaven and hell, charity, communality were determined by the contexts of foreign religions and cultures. I believe the issues of trinity was adapted from pagan egyptian myths and the supposed polytheism of christianity to peoples who can not cope with overloading their god with all the work. Hell to familiar hades.while in africa, the situation is similar to persian adoption of Zoroasterianism, where the old gods were demonized. The same ancestors we formerly worshipped are seen as witches today. The dire situation of africa; poverty, diseases, hunger and conflict  pave way for prosperity gospel with its stark contrast  with early christianity.

oyinda.:

i agree. Imagine a pastor telling the females in his church not to wear pants or makeup. that's not part of our culture anymore. women have rights nowadays. I think there is a line between culture and religion but it's blurry. How do we separate this? what is the limit?

oyinda.:

I will start by saying that there are so many things I don't understand yet. So many questions left unanswered for me. My problem (and it took a long time of soul searching and confusion for me to realize this) is that I can't reconcile my christian faith with that of my parents' and the nigerian christian environment i'm in with them. The reason for this dilemma is because I moved abroad and made friends with Christians who seem to be sometimes totally contrary to the ideals of christianity I had with nigerians. It kind of took away my innocence and I became confused as to what Christianity really is. I've grown more since then (in fact I'm still growing) and have figured out that the best way is to take my faith and Christianity personally. It should be strictly between me and my God. Rather than how yoruba culture or whatever culture you're in expects you to define your christianity.

for example, after living in the US for many yrs, I don't believe anymore in nigerian witches. Yes I say nigerian witches because our idea of witchcraft is non-existent and considered mere superstition among many western christians *gasp.* So are they any less christian than we are? Who are the better christians?
sometimes I feel like Nigerian christianity is still a mixture of traditional/pagan beliefs and western christianity. The way we nigerians worship, one would have thought that obanjes and witches populate the verses of the bible. But in reality, there are few if any references to witchcraft accusations and  in the bible. Nigerian christianity is still set in the context of pagan worship. We are always trying to diminish the "powers" of these traditional religions and village demons. If they were indeed powerless, as we often times say, then why are we concentrating all our christian lives to fighting them?
If we can nigerianize our christianity to that extent, why can't i individualize mine? to me, religion is personal and I want to get your opinion on this issue.
Is there is a right or wrong way to be a christian?
For parents living abroad, how do you teach your children in the right path? Have you considered these cultural influences? The fact that they  probably don't understand witchcraft or "satanic forces" or some other concepts used in Nigerian christianity.
To me, the reason sunday morning is the most segregated time in America is because of these cultural differences and the way they play into our religious beliefs. The american presbytarian has different ideas from the brazilian roman catholic who in turn is different from the Nigerian CAC or RCCG or cele worshiper.
What is your opinion on the right way of christian life?

The reason for this dilemma is because I moved abroad and made friends with Christians who seem to be sometimes totally contrary to the ideals of christianity I had with nigerians.

for example, after living in the US for many yrs, I don't believe anymore in nigerian witches. Yes I say nigerian witches because our idea of witchcraft is non-existent and considered mere superstition among many western christians

We are always trying to diminish the "powers" of these traditional religions and village demons. If they were indeed powerless, as we often times say, then why are we concentrating all our christian lives to fighting them?

Enigma:

Christianity is and has always been adaptable. It is useful to consider that Christianity comprises both doctrine (teachings and beliefs) and practice (expressions of different aspects of the faith). In respect of both, the universal church if truly it is guided and led by the Holy Spirit, as it should be, should provide a lead. This is true to a notable extent of some of the doctrines handed down by Jesus, the apostles and articulated by the church Fathers. Essentially, doctrine (in particular the most essential/foundational/important doctrines) really should be uniform; conceivably, regional variations in less or non-essential doctrines are acceptable and are perhaps in any event inevitable.

When it comes to practice/praxis, there are some things which flow from important doctrine and are to be followed e.g. action of loving one's neighbour, some 'ritual' practices like baptism and remembrance of the Lord's Supper (aka Holy Communion). Here again, there may yet be issues as to how to 'properly' carry out the action e.g sprinkling or immersion baptism or infant versus adult; also consider this, is 'Holy Communion' only to be with wafer or broken pieces of bread or is it conceivable that Holy Communion can be done with pounded yam or 'garium sulphate' (processed in water of 100 degrees centigrade)?

There is one major danger with the adaptable nature of Christianity ---- syncretism. This has always occured historically and continues to occur where Christianity is planted among pre-existent culture. Influences from that culture are introduced into the practice of Christianity by the locals (you can argue it was even the case with Judaism out of which Christianity came in any event). Even oyinbo man i.e. Europeans/North Americans introduced various forms of syncretism and today we see some of these things as more than normal e.g. who says a "church wedding" (or even registry) is really a necessity?

More blatant forms of syncretism include the Nigerian examples you've given and this daft idea of finding witches and demons every place when the Bible say to resist the devil and he will flee from you. In South and Latin America, you also find serious syncretism with for example Candomble etc etc

So how do we get over this morass? In a way, my view is that of a going back to basics: get a Bible that has Jesus' words written in red; study those words carefully and extensively and in time you will soon start to see what is important and what is not; what is necessary and what is not.

tpia1:


here are witches abroad. They just keep a low profile and as a matter of fact, the practice of witchcraft and other dark arts is on the rise in the USA.

tpia1:

1. Religion = culture. Cant escape that.
2. Churches overseas (especially in america), tend to follow cultural/racial lines, with a few being interracial or intercultural.
You have polish, ukrainian, greek, ethiopian coptic, armenian orthodox, roman catholic, etc etc churches. Even AAs congregate in their own black themed churches most times (the AAs who are religious that is).
I used to wonder why nigerians had their own churches but not anymore. It's nothing new, imo. Or unusual.

oyinda.:

merci mille fois.

Enigma:

Christianity is and has always been adaptable. It is useful to consider that Christianity comprises both doctrine (teachings and beliefs) and practice (expressions of different aspects of the faith). In respect of both, the universal church if truly it is guided and led by the Holy Spirit, as it should be, should provide a lead. This is true to a notable extent of some of the doctrines handed down by Jesus, the apostles and articulated by the church Fathers. Essentially, doctrine (in particular the most essential/foundational/important doctrines) really should be uniform; conceivably, regional variations in less or non-essential doctrines are acceptable and are perhaps in any event inevitable.

When it comes to practice/praxis, there are some things which flow from important doctrine and are to be followed e.g. action of loving one's neighbour, some 'ritual' practices like baptism and remembrance of the Lord's Supper (aka Holy Communion). Here again, there may yet be issues as to how to 'properly' carry out the action e.g sprinkling or immersion baptism or infant versus adult; also consider this, is 'Holy Communion' only to be with wafer or broken pieces of bread or is it conceivable that Holy Communion can be done with pounded yam or 'garium sulphate' (processed in water of 100 degrees centigrade)?

There is one major danger with the adaptable nature of Christianity ---- syncretism. This has always occured historically and continues to occur where Christianity is planted among pre-existent culture. Influences from that culture are introduced into the practice of Christianity by the locals (you can argue it was even the case with Judaism out of which Christianity came in any event). Even oyinbo man i.e. Europeans/North Americans introduced various forms of syncretism and today we see some of these things as more than normal e.g. who says a "church wedding" (or even registry) is really a necessity?

More blatant forms of syncretism include the Nigerian examples you've given and this daft idea of finding witches and demons every place when the Bible say to resist the devil and he will flee from you. In South and Latin America, you also find serious syncretism with for example Candomble etc etc

So how do we get over this morass? In a way, my view is that of a going back to basics: get a Bible that has Jesus' words written in red; study those words carefully and extensively and in time you will soon start to see what is important and what is not; what is necessary and what is not.

oyinda.:


^ haha tu parles francais?

I was watching bill moyers interview with Obama's previous church pastor.

the one who was accused of having anti-american sentiments and something in his interview struck me

and sort of helped articulate what i've been thinking for a long time.

He said that people sometimes ask him why he's a christian. why is he professing this "white man religion"

and he gave a really good answer about how christianity itself, when it is bare, is not a white man religion.

It is when you add the culture to it that it becomes a white man religion.

I'm just paraphrasing and adding my own jara but i'm really grateful to have watched that video.

one minute christianity is said to be a western import.

the next minute, it seem to have taken an indigenous form among nigerians and even african americans.

I guess the core, the faith is the most important. Sometimes it can be also hard when you are surrounded by people who do not believe

and they ask you these actually really smart questions that make you wonder why you are christian.

Understanding christianity and what you believe in is so helpful.

there is a difference between believing for the sake of it and believing because you know the truth.

Among the prophets and teachers of the church at Antioch of Syria were Barnabas, Simeon (called "the black man", Lucius (from Cyrene), Manaen (the childhood companion of King Herod Antipas), and Saul.