That's the point I'm trying to make exactly. But I'd like to know how both are possible at the same time, according to nferyn.

Freedom of choice makes freedom from suffering impossible.

The bible also got it right in that respect. Humans had freedom of choice in the Garden of Eden, and the result of that freedom of choice, when Adam rebelled against God, was we are condemned to a life of suffering. What we have today is responsibility for deciding which kinds of actions are putting us in a troubling direction where we'd best not go. And that is obviously where the debates begin to get underway.

nferyn:

Expand your argument, goodguy. I'm waiting

My point is this:

Suffering (in this context) is something incurred on oneself as a result of one's ability to choose freely the way he lives. Therefore, in the presence of freewill, suffering is inevitable. That explains why there's so much suffering in the world today. It's not because God is unfair/wicked/evil, but because he's JUST. He has given us the option to choose, but also adds that we should choose wisely.

So in anyway, it is impossible for there to be freedom of choice and freedom from suffering at the same time.

Actually I do not know waht freedom of choice is. Choice is choice. The point is that that choice can alleviate human suffering.
It's interesting when you read of the life of Christ how much of his time he spent here healing the sick. There must have been a reason for that. He was modeling for us what it is that we are intended to do by following in his path. So, I think the mandate for us as human beings to reach out to those who are suffering and try to heal their illnesses, and it's entirely consistent with strong faith. In fact, it's one of the strongest mandates we have.

Deuteronomy 30:19 
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

It is my prayer that the Spirit of God guides your heart this day to make the right choice.

The questions you just put up against God did not just pop up in your mind did they?

So why mention my name as if i put them there?

Well, the best thing to do is not to try to whip up sentiments that way. If you are seeking for answers, simply say so. Get to the right place and you will find answers.

God already made provision before the foundation of the world. Jesus is the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. He knew he had given Adam free will and thus expected him to do right in love and not out of compulsion.

Jesus is merciful and ever willing to save... but does that permit us to crucify him again and count the blood that was shed on the cross worthless?

There is before us a path that is true and Just and also a path taht leads unto destruction. it is left to us to choose that path of life and live or choose death and be destroyed. It is not up to God but up to You.

As for satan, he has been defeated and he is right now under my feet. He was put there over 2000 years ago by Jesus. It is my responsibility to have him remain there.

God has already made all provision for us to live successfully and victorious in christ. the moment you are born again, you recieve the divine naturre of Almighty God. This is what guarantees your success in life.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge...

...and not bc God did not care ....or satan was too powerful.

i fetched a bucket of water and a wasp fell into it. it must have been there for a while cause the water had been standing for at least two days.
when i noticed it today, i saw it was still alive but barely just struggling to stay afloat. should i take it out i thought... what if it stings me thinking i wanted to hurt it. well i didnt want to be stung so i took a a little stick and and placed it within the reach of the wasp.
when the wasp realised it had a strong thing to hold on to it grab it with all his might.
i picked it out of the water and placed it in the sun to dry and hopefully fly away.

while i walked away funny enough i remember what i had read on this thread n decided to share it.

the wasp had a choice... hold the stick or die... we have the same choice.

Nice one, tassmal.

Seun, dats the devil's way of making people believe God does not exist. Like a story about wat happened sometimes ago in a school in Collorado where many died.A student asked God 'God,why did u allow this to happen?' and God said; i wish to save you all,but u did not allow me in your school. only those who run to God will be saved. the devil is 'the ruler of this world'. God has played His part of the game, we are now left to paly our part too..worship Him in truth and love and all will be well. seun,big ups!

Nferyn: thanks for showing them the light! Goodguy appears to be a very dishonest debater - twisting everything around - but nferyn has the intellect and energy to counter him on every point.

Ok, so who wants to ask me a simple question and get a simple answer?

goodguy:

So in anyway, it is impossible for there to be freedom of choice and freedom from suffering at the same time.

And how did you get to that conclusion?

So you think freedom from suffering is possible? I have doubts on that. Surely you are not saying we have the resources to do that. There will be suffering always.

chrisd:

So you think freedom from suffering is possible? I have doubts on that. Surely you are not saying we have the resources to do that. There will be suffering always.

Why can't there be freedom from suffering

I mean, can anyone control any of these

i) Not getting what we want
ii) Maintaining what we have
iii) Losing what we love
iv) Encountering what we don't like

chrisd:

I mean, can anyone control any of these

i) Not getting what we want

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want! Meaning, 'The Lord is all i could ever want... He is my sufficiency....there is nothing that i want...that i dont already have'

1 Corinthians 3:21,22
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are you

chrisd:

ii) Maintaining what we have

2 Corinthians 9:7
Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves, takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, "prompt to do it" giver [whose heart is in his giving].

God is a giver and so are we his kids. He gave his very best to the world. So do we to our world.

chrisd:

iii) Losing what we love

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mark 10:29,30,31
29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

chrisd:


iv) Encountering what we don't like

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

Rom 8
31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or unclothedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."[l] 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

Seun:

Nferyn: thanks for showing them the light! Goodguy appears to be a very dishonest debater - twisting everything around - but nferyn has the intellect and energy to counter him on every point.

What makes me a dishonest debater? What light has nferyn shown us? In what way has he countered me on every post? What am I twisting around?

Operation revive old threads