Nairaland Forum

Sesan2,

You're very right. I wish current day Islam was more like what it was during the time of the Caliphate of Baghdad and Cordoba. At that time the Muslim world was leading in science, arts, trade and - above all - tolerance.

@

vichel:

......For me there is nothing wrong with it. The press has freedom pf speech, and if that's what the writer thinks of Muhammad, so be it.....

"Freedom of expression is not about doing whatever we want to do because we can do it, It is about creating an open marketplace for ideas and debate
where all, including the marginalised, can take part as equals."

@ charlisco, i wonder what makes u think am an ijaw guy. i work in PH but am yoruba and proudly MUSLIM.

As for the violence thing, ISLAM doesnt preach that. When u have an objective and clear mind then we can discuss, cos i can see rite now that
almost efrybody on this thread haf a full mind and wont be ready to listen to anything.

@theORAKU
Do know why i asked that question, whether Islam preaches peace?
Reasons: Becos when ever they intend to protect their religious right the playcard and slogan they display are really terrifying e.g
[list]
[li]KILL JEWS FOR PEACE[/li]
[li]EUROPE TAKE SOME LESSONS FROM 9/11[/li]
[li]AS MUSLIM WE UNIT & WE ARE PREPARED TO FIGHT[/li]
[li]BE PREPARED 4 D REAL HOLOCAUST![/li]
[li]BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM[/li]
[li]DEATH TO FRANCE[/li]
[/list]
Many more i have come across in the BBC News
and Note When Muslims threaten, take it seriously. 
i would have displayed the images here to prove what i  am saying, but i know Seun will not allow it. you can go to click on this link to see 4 yourself http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/30.htm

so what makes u think the ppl who displayed this so-=called slogans are ppl who really follow
principles of islam?
these ppl are not ambassadors of islam, u need to read up abt the religion to really know these
guys are not actually fighting in the course of the religion or GOD.

theORAKU:

so what makes u think the people who displayed this so-=called slogans are people who really follow
principles of islam?
these people are not ambassadors of islam, u need to read up about the religion to really know these
guys are not actually fighting in the course of the religion or GOD.

When will your eyes open, all those demostration are been backup by Imam, well i think you are just a secular muslim goer, do you know how to read the koran? have you visited that link i gave you.
Islam is peacefull only when you are part of them.
have you stayed in the north? I have a fellow that is working with me, he is a muslim every time he sees me, he always smile, saying that "if it was where he was, i mean in the north they would not have accepted me d way i did to him, since i am a non muslim"

The ambition of Islam is world domination through Jihad.
إِلاَّ تَنفِرُواْ يُعَذِّبْكُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا
Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least

charlisco:

The ambition of Islam is world domination through Jihad.
إِلاَّ تَنفِرُواْ يُعَذِّبْكُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا
Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least

so is that from a quran or from any sayings of the prophet?

see the ppl in the north(hausas) have a mixture of their culture fused with their religion thats why u having them attacking yoruba or ibo muslims whenever there's any of those religious riots.

Meanwhile, whenever u see or hear jihad, it doesnt literally translate to violence. It simply means acting in the course of islam. Doing things to promote islam.
Jihad meaning fighting and attacking ppl is just a misuse of the word.

theORAKU:

so is that from a quran or from any sayings of the prophet?

see the people in the north(hausas) have a mixture of their culture fused with their religion thats why u having them attacking yoruba or ibo muslims whenever there's any of those religious riots.

Meanwhile, whenever u see or hear jihad, it doesnt literally translate to violence. It simply means acting in the course of islam. Doing things to promote islam.
Jihad meaning fighting and attacking people is just a misuse of the word.

what are does things do i need to do and
How do you explian this statement

Anyone who disbeliefs in Islam and speaks against it is considered to be waging war against Allah and his messenger

Jakumo's contribution is not an hate speech.

There is too much pussyfooting around muslims by the authorities in Britain, in order not to lose their votes. The first reaction of the government after 7/7 was to circulate leaflets around that muslims should not be attacked ...This resulted in a lot more women in purdah walking on the streets with their men arrogantly swaggering along beside them, trying too hard to make a statement.

Why don't the moderate muslims round up the radicals and hand them over, if they really don't support what thay do in the name of Allah? Why do they still keep on harbouring them in their midst, aiding and abetting them?

All the "moderate" muslims that were granted media attention after the 7/7 event had to say concerning those that perished in carnage were;

that the youth are disaffected with the western principles;

that imams and the mullahs should give women more rights;

that those who committed the atrocities are radicals that have been mislead by mullahs and imams who are old and set in theiir ways and don't want to give up controls of the mosque;

that there women would no longer feel safe to walk alone in the street;

that they are afraid of the public backlash they are going to face;...

yet another atrocity was committed in the name of Allah on 21/7


A woman handling out christian leaflets was recently harangued by the police, yet in response to the cartoon that was published in september 2005, which is currently making the waves now, muslim protesters were burning Danish, US and British flags, carying offensive placards stating that Britain should expect more 7/7, a protester was even dressed as a bomber, etc, yet the British police just stood by, taking no action.     

I am not in favour of retaliation or revenge, but after 9/11, George Bush "shocked and awed" Afghanistan the next day, and warned the president of Pakistan that if those radicals who escaped into his country causes any trouble, he wil not hesitate to bomb Pakistan as well. Muslims in America know what their life was like after 9/11. There was and still is zero tolerance in the US for discrimination against their host.

American Muslims know better than to cause any trouble in the US, since then. They know what will happen to them if they show such intolerance there. The US is not prepared to put up with discrimination by those who chose to live amongst them, unlike Britain. Hence the reason why there was no protest in America over the cartoon incidence.

All the radical muslims can do to vent their frustration is burn US flags, attack US embassies and diplomats  and citizens in other country. We in Britain do not have the same security of mind. The day before the news of the cartoon broke out, the authorities warned that another attack was imminent in Britain and that we the public should remain alert.

ur point is....

@theORAKU
please provide an answer to my question

what are does things do i need to do and

How do you explian this statement from the koran

Anyone who disbeliefs in Islam and speaks against it is considered to be waging war against Allah and his messenger

Like i earlier said u need an open and objective mind b4 u can start
enquiring abt another religion which aint what u practise. Once u haf that, then u definitely
will be in a position to listen and try and see sense in what i might want to say. Forget abt the cartoons rite now and
just haf an open mind like someone willing to findout abt a new thing.

As for the verse, what do i haf to explain to you? Isnt it clear enuff. If u disbelif and speak ill about a person, a group or company, it simply means u dont like them and wont mind getting rid of them. Its a different thing to disbelif in sumthng and keep ur cool abt it, and another to disbelif and going around orally assasinating as well as degrading whatever it is.

do u haf a clearer picture?

Ur point is definitely not clear ORAKU, i do not believe in islam, i believe in christainity, are u then refering that by my statment above, am waging a war against islam?

@theORAKU
I have a very strong disbelief in islam meaning too that i am still also waging war against Allah and his messenger. Speak the truth or you will miss heaven, what do you think will happen to me if i am in mecca

Once more, the problem is not Islam, it's religion.

@vichel and charlisco,

u dont belief in islam but
1. will u guys go abt slandering the religion;
or
2. let the religion just be?

if u do the former, u are waging a war against the religion.

hope u get it?

its simple.

the oraku is dumb. as well as so called muslims

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Stephen Weinberg, Washington, D.C., April 1999)

I think it should say: 'For evil doers to think they are good people, that takes religion'

Sesan2:

I think it should say: 'For evil doers to think they are good people, that takes religion'

Actually a lot of those people are not really evil but honestly think they are doing the right thing. They are kind and gentle to their families and their kin, it's only the others, the ones that reject the truth, that deserve [/i]to die. Now it's mainly Muslims that fall in this trap, in the past it were mainly Christians.

Religion relies on faith, the willing belief in something that cannot be proven on authority. This conscious disregard for logic and evidence is central for an educated person to maintain a belief in a deity in our modern world. It's a state of mind that can easily be perverted into evil action while maintaining a sane, good core personality. This trend towards irrationalities frightens me to the bone. With a Christian zealot on the one hand (Bush) and Islamic zealots (Ahmadinejad to name just one) on the other hand the world has become a very dangerous place indeed.

At the core is the unshakable faith in one's own truth. There is no place for doubt, for questioning, in those people's minds. They are single minded and focused. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush and his cronies are willingly working on bringing the [i]End Times closer. They're a bunch of raving mad lunatics.

Nferyn I wouldn't classify American President George Bush in anywhere near the same ugly league as Islamic fundamentalists who plan suicide attacks on civilians.  The structure of checks and balances enshrined in the US constitution exists to reduce the chances of a sitting president taking reckless actions on the world stage, whereas the Jihadists' entire world-view is based on a convoluted and ambiguous book, written by some geezers several thousand years ago in the worlds' pre-industrial past, and this book guides and informs their every thought and action including the comical and homicidal quest to be with 72 virgins in heaven as a reward for the murder of non-muslims.

While Western society has made enormous advances in medical science and technology , borne out of a humanitarian belief in the sanctity of life,  the Jihadists, as a direct result of living in repressive and comparatively primitive gender-segregated societies where women are often treated worse than pack-animals, spend inordinate energy and time obsessing over SEX with virgins in the imaginary heaven they have been promised by their mullahs if they would only just go out and murder a bunch of innocent civilians. 

The sanctity and preservation of human life versus the selfish and lustful pursuit of carnal heavenly delight in a non-existent paradise and at the expense of innocent human lives :  These are the two opposing forces in today's world.

seeni4ever:

the oraku is dumb. as well as so called muslims

Watch ur mouth! u haf p[ersonal issues with me?
i dont even know u. Had a reply for you, but when i checkd ur profile _{*shakes head*}, i just decided to save it.
because u aint worth it.

as for u others, beleieve wateva u all want.

Please theORAKU  do not go voilent here, take it easy

i would love to know what is Muharram?

Jakumo:

The structure of checks and balances enshrined in the US constitution exists to reduce the chances of a sitting president taking reckless actions on the world stage, whereas the Jihadists' entire world-view is based on a convoluted and ambiguous book, written by some geezers several thousand years ago in the worlds' pre-industrial past, and this book guides and informs their every thought and action including the comical and homicidal quest to be with 72 virgins in heaven as a reward for the murder of non-muslims.

1. That structure of checks and balances is being thoroughly dismanteled in the US by means of the Patriot Act and similar provisions in the War on Terror
2. The worldview of Bush is equally based on a convoluted and ambiguous book, written by some geezers several thousand years ago in the worlds' pre-industrial past and he too let his book guide and inform (his) every thought and action

what about the action of Islamic mullahs in Afghanistan blowing up statues of the Buddha? is that considered legitimate my Muslims? why did they not respect other religions (as preached in the Koran) and appreciate other peoples beliefs? how would Muslims feel if Buddhists blew up mecca? i suppose it would be a sacrilege.

it seems to me that Islam is preached and practiced by a lot of extremists that want to impose their laws upon us and want to start trouble at the first opportunity. religion primarily preaches peace and respect not war and behaviors like we have seen around the world for a couple of silly sketches. i am not implying that all Muslims are loopy but there seems to be a large proportion that are. i am relieved to see that some are getting their just rewards (like the finsbury park mullah Dr. hook and the Muslim drug dealer that was recently locked up for dressing up as a suicide bomber).

the west is not perfect but rest assured, there is a systems in place to protect individual rights and freedom of speech. if we remove that then we will be heading back to the dark ages and the days of the inquisition.

Islam means peace? Is that really true?

What's peaceful about a religion that is intolerant of others and their faiths?
What's peaceful about people who have the liberty to chant "death to Isreal" at the slightest opportunity?
What's peaceful about those who murder innocent people (9/11, 7/7, 21/7)?
what's peaceful about those who threaten the peace and security of others brazenly and in the open?
What's peaceful about those who make the declaration of fatwahs a hobby?

truth is try as hard as moderate muslims want to paint a differemt picture, we know the truth. Islam is violence! Islam is about intolerance, kidnappings, terrorism, flag burning, stoning, public flogging and beheadings!
No other religion in history has been as violent and shed as much blood as islam.

Why would mullahs who hate western practices be living in the UK and Europe? Are there no more caves in afghanistan?
why would Osama bn Laden's niece and family members still be in the USA? Has he also failed to convince them to join him in his crusade against the "infidels"?
Why do hausa and fulani muslims hate and kill christian southerners(infidels) at the slightest provocation and yet refuse to agree to a confederation?


Oh islam! Thou art a contradiction to thyself!

@theORAKU
Say something theORAKU. about this previous comment above mine (the one), My friend buddah have said it all, I know theORAKU if you try an attempt to leave Islam your parent will disown you like i said earlier your are a secular muslim,
muslim have so many bad pratices
i think theORAKU what is going to be your next question should be "What is the way of Islam?" i hope to hear that from u
and befor you make up your mind, please tell me what is meant by Muharram being pratice my the Muslim faithfull

I am not surprised that any islamists have bothered to answer my point relating to the Buddhist religious shrines in Afghanistan. goes to show that Islam is a self centered and blinkered religion followed by individuals that are insecure. the act of questioning Islamic beliefs and doctrines places the followers into a state of panic even the simplest concepts cannot be questioned because they will lead to confusion and reveal the inadequacies of the teachings. this is the reason why threats must be eliminated using cruel and barbaric means. the followers of such doctrines can only be ignorants and the preachers power crazed dictators ala par with our friend Adolf.

i was interested to find that Muhammad atta (one of the 9/11 hijackers) was homosexual, how does that fit in with the seven virgins in heaven and the Koran? does he get seven virgin asses? is martyrdoom the only way he could have redeemed himself? what a selfish bastard if that was the case. he thought that by killing innocents he would end up in heaven.

off course there is always the possibility that there are some Muslims out there that have grasped the meaning of the Koran and the teachings of Muhammad the prophet. it would then be their duty to eliminate by whatever means the fundamentalists out there as they are the real infidels, the ones that have been taught but have refused to follow the way. the ones that have changed the teachings to fit their agenda. the false prophets as prophesied in the Koran and the bible.

Buddha and Davylan,  your writings ring very true and are well articulated, though I'm certain no muslim will try to reason agianst the points you have both raised.  Them guys are too busy slamming their foreheads on the ground 5 times a day to have any time for rational thought or logical discourse in the real world.   I was amused to learn some time ago that truly fanatic muslims bear actual hardened scars on thier foreheads resulting from years of slamming thier heads to the floor during prayer 5 times a day.  If I had the same daily routine, I would also have trouble reviving and engaging whatever undamaged brain cells I had left.

The world has pampered this muslim rubbish in the name of diplomacy.

All the fanatical moslem motherfurckers should not be appeased.

WHEN THEY WERE DESTROYING THE STATUE OF BUDDAH, DID THEY NOT KNOW THAT THAT WAS A SACRILAGE TO THAT RELIGION?

LEFT WITH ME, IF I WERE IN A POSITION SUCH AS THE US PRESIDENT, IL USE MISSILES AND DESTROY MECCA AND ALL THOSE OTHER bleeped UP PLACES. IF ANY NaughtyPerson ANYWHERE AROUND THE WORLD INSTIGATES ANY RUBBISH RIOT, IL WIPE THE WHOLE PLACE OFF

WHAT NONSENSE.