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Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) - Politics - Nairaland

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The Nigerian ''common Man'' Is As Corrupt As His Leader - See Photo Evidence / Obasanjo Is Not As Corrupt As Abacha- Oby Ezekwesili / The Masses Are The Cause Of The Problems In Nigeria! (2) (3) (4)

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Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Justcash(m): 1:13am On May 26, 2011
Nigerians in general, especially the masses are corrupt. The dreams of most Nigerians, both rich and poor, are to get an opportunity to dig their forks into the national cake and loot their part. This explains why as soon as a pauper is elected into an electoral position, he or she turns into something else, and suddenly becomes very corrupt.

I flew back from Yankee some few days ago and decided to organize a 5 hours e-commerce skill acquisition class for two days, where I intended to give out some of my new model laptops to some very small scale businessmen.

I contacted a not well to do man in the neighborhood 2 days ago, and decided to employ him on a part-time basis with a paltry salary of 15,000 P/day (Around $100), for the duration of the course. This, I expected to be enough for him to at least start up a petty shop after the end of the program. I even made him to promise to do so. All he had to do was to get as many small scale businessmen to attend the class, by going from shop to shop and talking to them. I was aware that they would exhibit some form of apathy about going to sit and listen, when they should be in their shops.

I specifically told him not to tell them that laptops would be given out. I intended to give them only to some outstanding few. I, however, planted some of my boys to monitor him and bring reports of his progress back to me.

To my biggest surprise, I got a report that the man had spread the news that laptops would be given out to everyone that would attend the class. Not only that, he was demanding for 500 Naira as attendance fee. He even went ahead to collect the money from some people and promised them brand new laptops, when he is not even the one that is responsible for that.

The question is, what is the difference between this man and a normal Nigerian politician? If this man happens to become a politician tomorrow, and leads Nigeria, you can guess how wayward he would be!!! Even after getting a contract to make 30,000 Naira in two days, he went ahead to extort money from his fellow countrymen, without even considering that they also find it hard to feed themselves and their families.
I think corruption is worse among the Nigerian masses than politicians.

I don't think that it is the nature of Nigerians. It is just a work of greed and lack of empathy.

MAY GOD HELP NIGERIA
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by HighChief4(m): 1:17am On May 26, 2011
Corrrupt nation, begets corrupt leaders
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Nobody: 1:28am On May 26, 2011
I agree!
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by DisGuy: 1:45am On May 26, 2011
I agree, if there are checks in place his type wont get to the position or when he gets there he'll be shown up quick

Justcash:

Nigerians in general, especially the masses are corrupt. The dreams of most Nigerians, both rich and poor, are to get an opportunity to dig their forks into the national cake and loot their part. This explains why as soon as a pauper is elected into an electoral position, he or she turns into something else, and suddenly becomes very corrupt.

I flew back from Yankee some few days ago and decided to organize a 5 hours e-commerce skill acquisition class for two days, where I intended to give out some of my new model laptops to some very small scale businessmen.

I contacted a not well to do man in the neighborhood 2 days ago, and decided to employ him on a part-time basis with a paltry salary of 15,000 P/day (Around $100), for the duration of the course. This, I expected to be enough for him to at least start up a petty shop after the end of the program. I even made him to promise to do so. All he had to do was to get as many small scale businessmen to attend the class, by going from shop to shop and talking to them. I was aware that they would exhibit some form of apathy about going to sit and listen, when they should be in their shops.

I specifically told him not to tell them that laptops would be given out. I intended to give them only to some outstanding few. I, however, planted some of my boys to monitor him and bring reports of his progress back to me.

To my biggest surprise, I got a report that the man had spread the news that laptops would be given out to everyone that would attend the class. Not only that, he was demanding for 500 Naira as attendance fee. He even went ahead to collect the money from some people and promised them brand new laptops, when he is not even the one that is responsible for that.

The question is, what is the difference between this man and a normal Nigerian politician? If this man happens to become a politician tomorrow, and leads Nigeria, you can guess how wayward he would be!!! Even after getting a contract to make 30,000 Naira in two days, he went ahead to extort money from his fellow countrymen, without even considering that they also find it hard to feed themselves and their families.
I think corruption is worse among the Nigerian masses than politicians.

I don't think that it is the nature of Nigerians. It is just a work of greed and lack of empathy.

MAY GOD HELP NIGERIA

If I run a one man painting service, how does an e-commerce seminar/lecture help me in Nnewi for example, this should have been directed at students or start-ups who at least know something about the internet/computing.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by koruji(m): 2:21am On May 26, 2011
It is the other way round - that is why it is called leadership. Corrupt leaders, beget corrupt nation.

High_Chief:

Corrrupt nation, begets corrupt leaders
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by ektbear: 2:39am On May 26, 2011
Human beings are inherently corrupt.

But yeah, given that the salary you were paying him wasn't linked to attendance, a bit funny/sad he did this side hustle.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Physicist(m): 2:49am On May 26, 2011
@ poster
I totally agree with you. I have a poor background in Nigeria. I am now living a comfortable life in the USA through hard work and luck. Majority of Nigerians whether poor or rich are very corrupt. The poor masses are as corrupt as the politicians.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by joecrack(m): 3:03am On May 26, 2011
Can u imagine nigerian filling station attendants demanding extra 100bucks to sell fuel during the last scarcity
it sucks,just taking advantage over an unfortunate situation to extort from a fellow masses.they automatically became demigods.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Justcash(m): 3:12am On May 26, 2011
Dis Guy:

If I run a one man painting service, how does an e-commerce seminar/lecture help me in Nnewi for example, this should have been directed at students or start-ups who at least know something about the internet/computing.

[b]There are internet service providers in Nnewi, and the mobile internet trend is spreading fast across Nigeria, including Nnewi. It will do a one man painting service business lots of good if he can create a platform that can make it easy for him to be contacted, without necessarily being visited at his shop. This will among other things, attract big customers e.g Banks, Government establishments etc, who will prefer to get such a service through a simple click or call, than dashing down to the market to get same at the same cost.
Moreover, The service price will be fixed online, thereby giving customers the opportunity to make estimates based on feasible prices, which automatically removes the stress of negotiation and the problem of lack of transparency (The price needs to be the same with those of the other people offering the same service ).
It takes four steps;
1. Development of a platform, which I plan to do for them plus internet for free (For a year).
2. Advertisement of service through Complementary cards, B to B and B to C direct visits,  Banners etc. I will guide them.
3. An internet mail check schedule to attend to inquiries through the laptop I will give to some of them and phones that some already have.
4. Create a page for feedback to assess quality of service.

The idea is, Why would a customer want to go the market to search for painters, when he/she can just connect to the net on his/her GSM (While browsing FB), to book a painting time at a cost that is the same with the ones in the market? Even if the person is a non-educated senior citizen, he/she will find it more convenient to call his/her kid or neighbor to make the contact on his/her phone, while facing more pressing issues at home.
The most difficult part of it is making it popular and ensuring that services offered are of high quality. I will help them in the popularity aspect. But, as far as the service quality aspect is concerned, I will emphasize on its importance in the class. As a matter of fact, I will tell them not to bother to embark on the project if they cannot offer a good service. I also want to tell them to always be open to criticism, which will serve as a differentiating factor.

You will agree with me that you don't need an extra skill to check your mail (Which I will still teach them), Read a message, and just put the sender's e-mail address on a pre-existent normal reply and send (I will give them a page load of potential replies to messages, and teach them how to use each). Moreover, some contacts can come in the form of SMS and Calls. [/b]
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by koruji(m): 3:40am On May 26, 2011
@Physicist
Your story actually supports the opposite. It is because leadership is not "corrupt" in the USA that you have a semblance of a clean society. Every, well let me not say every, but most Americans "will slap a face" if they can get away without consequence. Their original founders put in place a set of core principles, and a system of choosing credible leaders that gradually produced a cleaner system.

We forget that the USA was the original land of the wild-wild west - I want your property we have a gun duel. The difference again is there came a set of leaders that were slightly cleaner than the rest of the populace, and with each set of leaders they got better at picking better leaders - of course not without the occasional "Richard Nixon". Those leaders came from the same corrupt populace, but they acted the role of leaders.

Better believe that if their leaders slack off in the USA it will only be a couple of decades of such before the country is indistinguishable from today's Nigeria. It is really a case of everybody watching everybody else, and insisting on enforcing their own rights.

Physicist:

@ poster
I totally agree with you. I have a poor background in Nigeria. I am now living a comfortable life in the USA through hard work and luck. Majority of Nigerians whether poor or rich are very corrupt. The poor masses are as corrupt as the politicians.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by jamace(m): 6:16am On May 26, 2011
OP
I beg to disagree with you. It is the other way round.

The bitter truth is that our leaders have taught the ordinary citizen that any given  position of authority is an avenue to "make it". The man has just put to practice a lesson learnt from the leaders before him,  because by giving him the authority to mobilise others, he became a leader of some sort.

It is a pathetic situation, any way. sad sad
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by yesboss20(m): 1:01pm On May 26, 2011
This is very true in my opinion. Our leaders arose frm da masses and I say it categorically that da avg man on ur sidewalk is just as blinded by amassing wealth as da politrikcians!
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by obailala(m): 1:05pm On May 26, 2011
I disagree with the topic cos certain things have to be made clear. Every human being has corrupt tendencies, be it the Americans, British or whoever. The only reason those other countries seem better is cos they have laid down penalties for corruption unlike in Nigeria where anything goes (anything goes cos our leaders are bad!!!).

Nigerians are dynamic people; we adjust to the environment we find ourselves. If we can be fortunate to have upright leaders today, everyone will automatically become upright.

I always hear comments like "even a toddler in Nigeria thinks corrupt" but that is only possible because our leaders are corrupt. The most effective impact would be an impact on the person(s) at the top of the triangle.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by hackney(m): 1:15pm On May 26, 2011
@op: You dont think its the nature of nigerians; well, i think it is.

What you have just experienced exists in every single facet of the nigerian life with no exceptions.
As you have seen it doesnt matter if they are poor rich or even of religous persuasions.

The average nigerian wants to grab that money right now!
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by vislabraye(m): 1:18pm On May 26, 2011
@ poster. It is what u call sharpness. Thats why we have a lot of fake goods and products, 419 in every nook and cranny. People promising you job only after u've paib a token fee. They come in all form and sizes; well spoken clean suites to the agberos they are just countless.

I remember enrolling for a course in a recruitment agency. They call the program ESDP (Employability Skills Development Program ). They said the best candidate would be offered a scholarship to Havard, second to a Business school in South Africa, and the third Lagis Business School.
We were asked to pay 3,500 to their account. After paying, they set the  aptitude test on the 29th of May knowing fullywell its a public holiday. After complaining to them , they had a resit and I was chosen.
I have attended all their classes, done the exams and nothing have been heard from them. Meanwhile, there were about two thousand people who paid for this services and only a less than a quarter was chosen.
Corruption is every where worse of all corporate organizations.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by armyofone(m): 1:20pm On May 26, 2011
i hope you talk to him. that's the kind of pple we have in nigeria now. dupers big time. they cheat you blindly. worst if they know you came from another country, from market women/men, leaders, all of them.
very sad. something of such prevent investment in nigeria.

everybodi is cheating and stealing from everybody.

what is preventing nigeria from laying down the penalty for stealing and corruption?
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by MyJoe: 1:21pm On May 26, 2011
koruji:

@Physicist
Your story actually supports the opposite. It is because leadership is not "corrupt" in the USA that you have a semblance of a clean society. Every, well let me not say every, but most Americans "will slap a face" if they can get away without consequence. Their original founders put in place a set of core principles, and a system of choosing credible leaders that gradually produced a cleaner system.

We forget that the USA was the original land of the wild-wild west - I want your property we have a gun duel. The difference again is there came a set of leaders that were slightly cleaner than the rest of the populace, and with each set of leaders they got better at picking better leaders - of course not without the occasional "Richard Nixon". Those leaders came from the same corrupt populace, but they acted the role of leaders.

Better believe that if their leaders slack off in the USA it will only be a couple of decades of such before the country is indistinguishable from today's Nigeria. It is really a case of everybody watching everybody else, and insisting on enforcing their own rights.

I agree with this. When people on this forum and elsewhere call the Westerners, particularly the British and the Americans, "hypocritical" for holding their leaders to higher moral standards than the masses, a la Clinton/Lewinsky and DSK, I shake my head. Leaders ought to be better than the led. "If you are not better than us, you have no business leading us," this is what the British and the Americans seem to say when they hound a public figure for a "mere" extra-marital affair. Extend that to accepting of gifts by public officials, and from there move on to inflation of contracts and outright embezzlement.

For Nigeria to change, it has to start from the stop. Elite consensus. Someone at the top has to stand up and say enough is enough. Once accountability is enthroned at Aso Rock and the various state houses the people will take note and change will come gradually. By the way, op's assertion that Nigerians are as corrupt as their leaders apply everywhere. There is an old saying that everyone wants less corruption or a chance to participate in it.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by armyofone(m): 1:26pm On May 26, 2011
well said!


MyJoe:

I agree with this. When people on this forum and elsewhere call the Westerners, particularly the British and the Americans, "hypocritical" for holding their leaders to higher moral standards than the masses, a la Clinton/Lewinsky and DSK, I shake my head. Leaders ought to be better than the led. "If you are not better than us, you have no business leading us," this is what the British and the Americans seem to say when they hound a public figure for a "mere" extra-marital affair. Extend that to accepting of gifts by public officials, and from there move on to inflation of contracts and outright embezzlement.

For Nigeria to change, it has to start from the stop. Elite consensus. Someone at the top has to stand up and say enough is enough. Once accountability is enthroned at Aso Rock and the various state houses the people will take note and change will come gradually. By the way, op's assertion that Nigerians are as corrupt as their leaders apply everywhere. There is an old saying that everyone wants less corruption or a chance to participate in it.
wouldn't happen anytime soon. most like the thiefing/corrupt ways better.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Bawss1(m): 1:29pm On May 26, 2011
Many people do not want to take responsibility for their situations that’s why they usually blame their leaders. It’s much easier that way. This is not to say that our leaders are without faults when it comes to corruption. It’s just that when we blame our leaders the attention moves from us to the leaders, that way we delude ourselves that we are OK so we can continue in our indolence and corruption. If we all did the right things within our own spheres of influence then corrupt leaders will scarcely emerge in our mists.

EDITED.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by VEE2010(m): 1:36pm On May 26, 2011
[b][b][b][b]Hello Friends, nice to reach out, can someone please examine in few words, the implications of reducing an already approved budget? What are the effects? Reasonable contributions, please! lipsrsealed undecided
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by obailala(m): 1:39pm On May 26, 2011
MyJoe:

I agree with this. When people on this forum and elsewhere call the Westerners, particularly the British and the Americans, "hypocritical" for holding their leaders to higher moral standards than the masses, a la Clinton/Lewinsky and DSK, I shake my head. Leaders ought to be better than the led. "If you are not better than us, you have no business leading us," this is what the British and the Americans seem to say when they hound a public figure for a "mere" extra-marital affair. Extend that to accepting of gifts by public officials, and from there move on to inflation of contracts and outright embezzlement.

For Nigeria to change, it has to start from the stop. Elite consensus. Someone at the top has to stand up and say enough is enough. Once accountability is enthroned at Aso Rock and the various state houses the people will take note and change will come gradually. By the way, op's assertion that Nigerians are as corrupt as their leaders apply everywhere. There is an old saying that everyone wants less corruption or a chance to participate in it.
Word

Bawss1:

Many people do not want to take responsibility for their situations that’s why they usually blame their leaders. It’s much easier that way. This is not to say that our leaders are without faults when it comes to corruption. It’s just that when we blame our leaders the attention moves from us to the leaders, that way we delude ourselves that we are OK then can continue in our indolence and corruption. If we all did the right things within our own spheres of influence then corrupt leaders will scarcely emerge in our mists.
of course the leaders are responsible whether u like it or not. For a chain smoker/womanizing father, it would take only the grace of God for the child not to follow suit. Even if a bad person becomes a leader and changes his ways in leadership, u will be surprised at the positive effect that would have on the followers. U dont transform a society by transforming those at the bottom of the triangle; it's the other way round.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by manny4life(m): 1:41pm On May 26, 2011
I couldn't agree anymore than you have said; a huge Nigerian population are as corrupt as their leaders and there's nothing no one can do about it except discipline of the highest order.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by monkeyleg: 1:46pm On May 26, 2011
So true. The country is awash with thieves, funny enough we might find that the politicians are even better, some even chop and remain for others, while the average Nigerian will chop and even deprive thier mothers of scraps.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Bawss1(m): 1:46pm On May 26, 2011
MyJoe:


For Nigeria to change, it has to start from the stop. Elite consensus. Someone at the top has to stand up and say enough is enough. Once accountability is enthroned at Aso Rock and the various state houses the people will take note and change will come gradually. By the way, op's assertion that Nigerians are as corrupt as their leaders apply everywhere. There is an old saying that everyone wants less corruption or a chance to participate in it.

Very wrong. For Nigeria to change for the better, it has to start from its most basic unit - the individuals. And from there, the families then to the society at large. Waiting for change from Aso Rock is just another convenient way of shying away from the hardwork and responsibility required in bringing about positive change.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by krixik(m): 1:54pm On May 26, 2011
Westerners are like us. The only difference is that they allow their laws to govern them and not the other way round that is obtainable in our society. I once worked with an American who was always picking used recharge cards for reimbursemnet cos every kobo he spent with evidence was being reimbursed but he wouldn't try it in his own country for fear of being caught and punished. And again one european once told me that they are well behaved cos of the fear of their laws and law enforcement agents. He told me that without these two that they will be worse than us. We need a sound constistution and sound enforcement agencies. All animals are born equal and the same period.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Odunnu: 1:58pm On May 26, 2011
Yea we have very corrupt citizens but in it all there are many chaste ones
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by MyJoe: 2:07pm On May 26, 2011
Bawss1:

Very wrong. For Nigeria to change for the better, it has to start from its most basic unit - the individuals. And from there, the families then to the society at large. Waiting for change from Aso Rock is just another convenient way of shying away from the hardwork and responsibility required in bringing about positive change.  
I disagree with you and I suggest you make better arguments when declaring people "very wrong". You reread koruji's post to better understand this argument.

There are a lot of wonderful individuals in Nigeria as in elsewhere who refuse to participate in any form of corruption, even if they are derided for it by friends and family. There are policemen who do their work diligently and refuse bribes. But these individuals can't change the country, for no matter how they try, they are in the minority. People who are irredeemably corrupt and hellbent on stealing, not matter what, are probably also in the minority. The majority of people go along with the mood of the society - they will steal public funds because everyone does it. If the system was better, laws are enforced, there are good retirement plans, his efforts are not being sabotaged by the system itself, this person would not steal. That is the majority. They need role models, examples, to follow. No, we don't have to wait for Aso Rock, and every individual can do their bit and positively affect those around them. But we know only a few individuals will, others won't. There is no amount of honesty or good work from you, Bawss, that can change the entire system. That does not apply to the man at Aso Rocks. Saying it is the responsibility of leaders to lead the way is not shying away from anything. It is the way things are.
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by iice(f): 2:12pm On May 26, 2011
About time people woke up and smelt the coffee percolating.

Bawss1:

Very wrong. For Nigeria to change for the better, it has to start from its most basic unit - the individuals. And from there, the families then to the society at large. Waiting for change from Aso Rock is just another convenient way of shying away from the hardwork and responsibility required in bringing about positive change.  
Have you been reading my journals? tongue
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by banom(m): 2:17pm On May 26, 2011
the guy did the right thing, @ poster you said you needed the outstanding small business people to attend, how else omn earth would he have known the serious ones if not to demand some amount of money, if na mi ehh , efo bi 10,000 naira or dont come. period. so am i corrupt ?
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by bkbabe97y(m): 2:18pm On May 26, 2011
Odunnu:

Yea we have very corrupt citizens but in it all[b] there are many chaste ones[/b]

Sure, even in Sodom and Gomorrah I bet they had a few "straight" men.

But u voted GEJ, right? lmao.

Fo.ols!
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by andyanders: 2:28pm On May 26, 2011
@Justcash  

Let me just state here that if you want to know what corruption is, go down to the grass root, then you can confirm this just like what you experienced. If you go to houses known as face me I face you or something like that, you will come to terms what corruption is. I took my time to check the behavior of people that reside within this kind of environment and my study was something to that goes a lot to confirm the source of the % of corrupt individuals in the system.

I took my time to note that if a child  within the ages of 5 who lives in a yard where that child stays with the parents and maybe a young adult who stays in that yard keep sending the child to buy something for him and in return fails to give that child something for the errands sent, the mother of that child will now call the child and ask, the child if that uncle as they are usually referred to gives him something in return and that child confirms to the parent that the uncle never give him/her anything, the parent of that child, will warn their child not to EVER go for any errand for that uncle. But if the child is been given something in return, the parent will encourage that child to be helping that uncle. That is corruption.
At School, a parent pays for special examination centers for their children to secure results for them for higher institution. The children are aware that their parents paid to see them through to their position. Is that not corruption? Nothing you can do to change the product of these individuals.

Corruption is part of our system and it can only be by violence for us to get things right. Our leaders are so corrupt that they flaunt their wealth and nothing happens. Look at Bank directors, after stealing billions will get plea bargain. Governors, after looting the state dry gets plea bargain. Now, if I am going there, knowing fully well that Mr. A, got plea bargain for stealing billion, I will confident enough to steal trillion. It goes on and on. So, who will arrest who?
Re: Nigerian Masses Are As Corrupt As Nigerian Politicians (evidence) by Bawss1(m): 2:30pm On May 26, 2011
MyJoe:

There is no amount of honesty or good work from you, Bawss, that can change the entire system. That does not apply to the man at Aso Rocks. Saying it is the responsibility of leaders to lead the way is not shying away from anything. It is the way things are.

Thats just dandy isn't it? Who wouldn't want to just sit and fold their hands while waiting for the messiah to appear in Aso Rock. A very tempting path indeed. We are talking about the corrupt tendencies in the Nigerian people here. EVERYONE has a part to play in it. The leaders as well the followers. Saying our own efforts won't count is supporting indolence.

[b]If everyone did the right thing within their own spheres of influence [/b]then that much desired change that we dream about will most certainly materialize. Don't blame it entirely on the leaders. The leaders agreeably have a wider influence and can effect change on a larger scale but that change will not be complete if the followers don't play their own part.

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