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God and Allah: Are they the same? - Islam for Muslims (18) - Nairaland

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Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:33pm On Jan 15, 2009
If in Arabic ilah = god

and al = the

Therefore, allah = the god

What name were the Arabs calling him before Mohammed became his prohet?

Does he have unique name as was revealed to Moses and in Christianity such as

[list]
[li]God the Father is Yahweh

Jesus the Son is Adonai

The Holy Spirit is the third Person in the Godhead who is our Helper (Paraclete)[/li]
[/list]?

Even though the generic name for "God" in Hebrew was ELOHIM
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by kolaoloye(m): 1:44pm On Jan 16, 2009
@ Olabowale & Olaadegbu'
Eyin Ola mejeji, let there be no misconception please.
We all agreed that there is only one God,right? We only want to know the Arabic name for god.

In Koran we have: La ilaha ila allahu
La (lam-alif) means; NO
Ilaha (Alif, lam, Au) means: supreme god
Ila means(Alif, lam-alif): except
Allahu means the Creator (Allah)
Which means: there is no supreme god (idol,deity) except Allah

Olaadegbu, i think from this you can now draw your conclusion.
I rest my case grin
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:41pm On Jan 16, 2009
from:pilgrim.1 on: September 12, 2008, 11:12 AM
Quote from: littleb on September 12, 2008, 03:12 AM
Next, Provide "Allah" analysis in arabic with plurality and gender plus their translation in english, Hebrew, greek and Aramaic. In arabic bible, there is no God translation other than Allah.

You're becoming a bit irrational as it does not appear that you have any substance to your overwheening pride. But I'll oblige you once again if you care.

The first thing to understand is that the translators of the Bible into Arabic (as far as I know) did not accurately represent the Biblical texts. Take, for instance, such passages as cited above where Moses and Isaiah were given the revelation of God as Father - what do those verses say in Arabic, my dear littleb?

Second, Christians who know that such translations in Arabic are inaccurate have calmly rejected the compromise and that is why they refer to God in Arabic as "Allāh al-Āb (الله الآب) - God the Father" (see, for example, John 6:27, Philp 2:11, 2 Peter 1:17 and Jude 1).

Third, the word "Allāh" is not a proper name for God, and it was well known by the Arab pagans before Muhammad founded Islam. We all know that it is a contraction of two words - the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god". Put together, it stands as al- ʾilāh ("the god"wink. Please understand that "god" is a generic (or common) term for deity, and is not a proper name, so there's no need here to go into semantics about small "g" or capital "G" (later, if you care, I'll show you that even Muslim translators of the Quran have used "god" in reference to Allah).

However, since we know that the word stands alone as "ʾilāh" ("god"wink, the Quran uses its several derivatives to refer to plural deities (such as "aliha" - "gods"wink - see for example:


Quran 7:138 - ""O Musa (Moses)! Make for us an ilahan (a god) as they have aliha (gods)" (Hilali-Khan)


Quran 21:43 - "Or have they aliha (gods) who can guard them from Us?. . ." (Hilali-Khan)

I could expatiate on this with further references if need be, but there are numerous such in the Quran itself where the word "god" has plurals (gods) as well.

Now, as to the gender, we know that the masculine form of deity is called "allah" ('the god'), while the feminine form is "allat" ('the goddess' with a final 't'). It could be written as either "al-Lāt" or "al-'Ilāhat", and the difference is simply the grammatical forms in Arabic ("ta-marbuta", more precisely, as it is the consonant used in the ordinary feminine singular ending of such arabic words). One such reference in the Qur'an is Sura 53:19 - "Have ye thought upon *Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza" (*'Al-Lat' simply means "the goddess" in contradistinction to the masculine form 'Al-ilah' or 'allah', the god).

This is just a summary, but should you need to be better informed, then I could oblige you and provide classical distinction both from within the Quran, the sahih Hadiths, several Islamic texts and documents, and standard Arabic scholarship. Please don't try to tease yourself on this, because I definitely will take you up on any bluff you advance on these matters.

The point so far is not to ridicule you or Islam. . . not at all. My style is often to provide evidence for what I state as clearly as daylight so that no one is left in doubts. I don't make statements I cannot defend, that is why I don't plagiarize materials or make defenseless statements/claims. For this reason again, I often appeal to my Muslim friends to hold their peace and enjoy their muslim section instead of coming here to be the brigaders of such fallacious claims as they often assert.

I could stop here, but if you'd like me to answer the rest of your claims with crystal clear evidence, I would oblige you.

Shalom. 


This one the posts where Pilgrim.1 addressed some of these questions.  I can remember that she sent olabowale running with his tail between his legs. tongue
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by olabowale(m): 4:03pm On Jan 16, 2009
@Olaadegbu: « #544 on: Yesterday at 07:33:03 PM »  

If in Arabic ilah = god

and al = the

Therefore, allah = the god

In arabic, ila, meaning god worshipped by a person or people. A good set of examples; The Christians worship Jesus or Christ. He is an ila of the Christians. The Christians also worship the oly Ghost. This is also an ila of the Christians. The Christians also worship Father. So too, this another ila of the Christians. The people of the Catholic sect of the Christian faith, also worship Mary. This woman is also an ila of this specific sect. ~Lady~ will jump up and down about this. Dont vex. I am just making a statement. I wonder if one prays to an object, if that is not obvious worship.

ilaha is negating all worship as to a god, gods, God, or Gods. This ilaha is made up of two parts; ila and ha.

ilallah is now affirming the only ila; Allah, a proper name for the Only One from among the known and unknown, implied or unimplied (god, gods, God, or Gods) that is to be Worshipped. Only His Worship by you can benefit you. All others who you worship, as a Christian; son, ghost, father will not benefit you. If you are a Jew, Yahweh, Jehovah, Eloi, Elohim, etc and of course your Dollar, Pounds, Euro, or Naira, Schekels, will not benefit you. If you are a Hindu or whatever, your ila; Buhddah, etc will not benefit you. If you are an atheist or agnostic, whatever you choose to focus on, including yourself or the world, will not benefit you.

Hence Allah is made of two parts; Al meaning The. The the here brings us to a specific ila. In this case this is the Ila that has no symbolic, idol or image representattion. And of course the other part is ilah as in Ilah giving us the known and without any doubt God, not Gods, or god or gods. This Allah says that is His name. I as a believer do not have any opinion, except to accept it. For sure among the Nairaland family, Iam the one who knows myself better. The same way that I see The God as about His Own speech of Himself.

The yorubas knew there was a Creator whom they call Olodumare, among other name. When Christianity and islam came to the yorubas, the Christians and the muslims speaking to other people within their own faith, who is yoruba may still use the same Olodumare to signify the Creator. The yorubas have not abandoned that word, Olodumare, even though they abandoned the animist worship that they used the same Olodumare word in talking about the Creator. Now Olodumare means Creator, to a muslim, without going through an idol or small olodumare as his forefathers used to do. The same thing happens to Christians, except he now installs Jesus as the small no statue olodumare. Of course the Christian knows that there is the Overall Olodumare, ahead and above Jesus, the small olodumare. lol.





What name were the Arabs calling him before Mohammed became his prohet?

The last part, above. I made fun of you there. I can't help it to show that i love you as a human. Perchance, you may reflect about Olodumare and olodumare; The God and Jesus. This reminds me of the Jewish joke about the Snaider the tailor who arrived in USA and formed a company called Lord and tailor. Initially he wanted to say God and snaider, until he was adviced to a catchier name; Lord and Tailor.




Does he have unique name as was revealed to Moses and in Christianity such as


God the Father is Yahweh

Jesus the Son is Adonai

The Holy Spirit is the third Person in the Godhead who is our Helper (Paraclete)
?

Even though the generic name for "God" in Hebrew was ELOHIM

Is Yahweh, a Semitic name or Greek name? Is Adonai a Semitic name or Greek name? Is Paraclete a Semitic name or Greek name? Is Eloim a Semitic name or Greek name? I hope you are consistent in whatever you chose; between Semite or Greek. It will be a weak process if you switch up from the chosen language to another. I wonder if Adonai and paraclete are not Greek words, while Yahweh and Elohim are not Semitic? If you cant be consistent in just soemthing this elementary and foundamental, how can we count on you on something hard and complex?

Allah is a proper name. Allah says call Me, Allah or AlRahman. All the Most Beautiful belongs to Me. Read Sural Hashr. Read Surah AlRahman. Read Surah Hadid. Read Surah Alaq. Read Surah Ala. Raed Surah Iklas. Read the whole of Qur'aan, cover to cover and discover yourself. I wo Ogbeni yi, ma ku si keferi o. I ku keferi iku esin ni o. I ku iya ni o.




@kola oloye (m): « #545 on: Today at 01:44:25 PM »  

@ Olabowale & Olaadegbu'
Eyin Ola mejeji, let there be no misconception please.
We all agreed that there is only one God,right? We only want to know the Arabic name for god.

Generic name for god of any kind or type; physical or not; ila.




In Koran we have: La ilaha ila allahu
La (lam-alif) means; NO
Ilaha (Alif, lam, Au) means: supreme god
Ila means(Alif, lam-alif): except
Allahu means the Creator (Allah)
Which means: there is no supreme god (idol,deity) except Allah

It is Qur'aan. It is Laa ila ha ilallah. It is Laam Alif, Alif Laam Haa, Alif Laam, Laam Laam Haa.
But when you write them dowm the alif are eliminated in the middle for the most part. What you have that you are calling alif may just be the accentuation.

So Kola, how many Supreme god, idol, deity are there in any religion? Lets start with Christianity; Which one is Supreme god; which one is Supreme idol; which one is Supreme deity among Father, son and ghost?

Of course you know the muslims do not have to wrestle with so many gods, idols, or deities. And we couldn't have idols or an idol anyhow. Unlike the some quarters of Christians with their cross and crucibles, and their Virgin Mary, etc. And of course the glass stain windows.





Olaadegbu, i think from this you can now draw your conclusion.
I rest my case

You can't rest your case, until you tackle the problems above. Olaadegbu, draw up your conclusion, after you handle the same assignment, as Kola. Who is the Supreme god, or idol or deity of christianity among the three; father, son and ghost? Supreme means the highest and most powerful. There should be Only One. No? Chose wisely.




@Olaadegbu:

The first thing to understand is that the translators of the Bible into Arabic (as far as I know) did not accurately represent the Biblical texts. Take, for instance, such passages as cited above where Moses and Isaiah were given the revelation of God as Father - what do those verses say in Arabic, my dear littleb?

The operative quote from Pilgrim is in the bracket (). Read it above; As far as I know. She was talking about the Bible into Arabic. The Arabs had become Christians long before Christianity got to Yoruba Nigeria. Pilgrim.1 is Yoruba. If she said as far as I know, couldnt there be a chance that she known less than 100%? At least she is honest, by providing the disclaimer.

Her further argument about some people amongst the Christian rejected whatever the translators of the Bible to Arabic first said, to the point that they added Allah al Ab, is a sign of non-uniformity in your religion. How then do you think you will know better about the Qur'aan, since the Arabic used to write the Bible is from the Arabic of the Qur'aan.


And in all her effort to play Pundit about the word Allah being not a proper name, she failed to realise that the verses she quoted from the Qur'aan did not contain the work "Allah!" And I have argued above about Olodumare was known by yoruba pagans as The God Almighty Creator, before Christianity or Islam entered Yorubaland. The pagans of today in Yorubaland still say Olodumare. So do the Christians. So do the Muslims. Do we who are no pagans with Orisha, or Obatala, or yemeja, or ogun, or Shango, or whatever in from of us now abandone the word Olodumare to mean Our Almighty Olodumare the Creator because the Onifa or Oloyaa uses the same name, before and even now? Pilgrim was being a magician. She is smart, but not that smart. Deceit will be explained an uncountable way. But truth is just a very plain matter.
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by olabowale(m): 4:18pm On Jan 16, 2009
@Olaadegbu:

Now, as to the gender, we know that the masculine form of deity is called "allah" ('the god'), while the feminine form is "allat" ('the goddess' with a final 't'). It could be written as either "al-Lāt" or "al-'Ilāhat", and the difference is simply the grammatical forms in Arabic ("ta-marbuta", more precisely, as it is the consonant used in the ordinary feminine singular ending of such arabic words). One such reference in the Qur'an is Sura 53:19 - "Have ye thought upon *Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza" (*'Al-Lat' simply means "the goddess" in contradistinction to the masculine form 'Al-ilah' or 'allah', the god).

No one with any good intelligence writes Allah starting with a small letter. At least no believer will . I will not even write my own name starting with a lower case letter. Can that be done for my Creator, if I will not do it for my own name? As stated before; Pilgrim is a magician. allat is not the feminine form of Allah. The lat part is derived from Latif, which is a helping deity. Since they have a god for every function; eg travelling, sowing, fertility, etc. al uzza is another. Uzza is from Aziz.

I wonder where Pilgrim had her Islamic education? No wonder she left islam very unceremoniously. A mind like hers cant hide from Allah. Olaadegbu, if you rely on her thesis for your salvation, you have failed so terribly.

Funny enough, she ends up her dissertation with "Shalom." This is a Jewish word. I only wish she can explain the Bible using Jewish words for holy ghost, Jesus and Christ and trinity, and father, and crucifixion and others, without running to the helenistic language! Was the Bible revealed in helenistic language?
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by olabowale(m): 4:40pm On Jan 16, 2009
@Kola Oloye: « #531 on: January 08, 2009, 09:53 PM »

from Ok. gerald
Allah' = God
Chineke=God
Olodumare=God
Abasi=God
Eloi=God

Jesus<God
Muhammed<God


TO ME

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Re: God and Allah: Are they the same?
« #532 on: January 08, 2009, 09:59 PM »
Allah= Eloi, =God
sounds alike



kola oloye (m)
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Posts: 1297

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Re: God and Allah: Are they the same?
« #533 on: January 12, 2009, 04:47 PM »

Th
Quote from: ok.gerald on January 08, 2009, 09:53 PM
Allah' = God
Chineke=God
Olodumare=God
Abasi=God
Eloi=God

WELL SPOKEN
There is only one God,the creator of the heaven and the earth. Some people even call him OLU_ORUN (Olorun).

Ogbeni Kola, you quoted Ok.gerald, but didnt quoted him fully. You left out the enbolden. Any reason for it? I guess his truth kindds burns, deeply. If they call Him Olu Orun (OLorun), is this not what the Aborishas also call Him? Is this name of Him only said by the Christians of Yorubaland, and the Muslims or the Onishongos don't have the right to say it? Or is it only by the Muslims and the Christians and Oloyas have not right to call Him by that name?
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by olabowale(m): 9:34pm On Jan 16, 2009
@Olaadegbu: « #546 on: Today at 02:41:38 PM »

from:pilgrim.1 on: September 12, 2008, 11:12 AM

Quote
Quote from: littleb on September 12, 2008, 03:12 AM

Let me rubbish the writing of the pundit for the fun of it, for the pleasure of Allah. Even though I like Pilgrim.1, but I will abuse her writing for The One and Only Deity; Allah.






Quote
Next, Provide "Allah" analysis in arabic with plurality and gender plus their translation in english, Hebrew, greek and Aramaic. In arabic bible, there is no God translation other than Allah.

You know why Allah is the only word in Arabic language and their many holy books, based on their many religions; Judaism, Christianity and Islam, for God the Creator? It is because they know even before any of these religions, like any society and culture, there is that heartfelt believe that There is One Creator. Note that in all the idolworshipping of the Makkans and the greater Arabic people, there was none named Allah. They knew better. Just like the Onishongos of Yorubaland, Olodumare was, is never made into a doll, though they have Shango doll.





You're becoming a bit irrational as it does not appear that you have any substance to your overwheening pride. But I'll oblige you once again if you care.

As much as I like you, you are the one who is being overtly irrational, and deceitful, if not intentional, but definitely ignorantly.





The first thing to understand is that the translators of the Bible into Arabic (as far as I know) did not accurately represent the Biblical texts. Take, for instance, such passages as cited above where Moses and Isaiah were given the revelation of God as Father - what do those verses say in Arabic, my dear littleb?

You killed your own argument, because of the single phrase, "as far as I know", above that you made. It shows that your knowledge about what you are going to say after, is at best dicey. Its not absolute as 100%. is there any reason to read even further than this? But I will oblige you, anyway.






Second, Christians who know that such translations in Arabic are inaccurate have calmly rejected the compromise and that is why they refer to God in Arabic as "Allāh al-Āb (الله الآب) - God the Father" (see, for example, John 6:27, Philp 2:11, 2 Peter 1:17 and Jude 1).

The best form of Arabic language or dialect is what we call fusat Arabic. This language or dialect type is the purest of all arabic. And it was what Qur'aan was revealed in. It is Qur'aan that brought that language type to Arabia. The Bible is written using this type language culled from Qur'aan. How then is it possible that anyone from Christianity would know Arabic language than what is in Qur'aan? Impossible.






Third, the word "Allāh" is not a proper name for God, and it was well known by the Arab pagans before Muhammad founded Islam.

Allah is the proper name of God. It is very specific in identity. It is not meant for any god, or gods except The God Who is the Lord of Kaaba, yet not identified among the gods that housed in that holy placed, in preIslamic of Muhammmad era. This name stands alone for The God, before Islam and there is no need to change it, since thats what Allah called Himself to Muhammad. Just the same way that Olodumare is The God's name in Yorubaland. Olodumare is different from shango for example. Yet you will hear Onishongo saying Olodumare. You are now being dishonest.






We all know that it is a contraction of two words - the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god". Put together, it stands as al- ʾilāh ("the god"wink.

Bad knowledge. Al is The. ila means god, or God. Make your own case. Allah is very specific. It means The God. The very God, Who has no image, representation, or your heart or knowledge can completely make Him out. He is nothing that you can imagine.






Please understand that "god" is a generic (or common) term for deity, and is not a proper name, so there's no need here to go into semantics about small "g" or capital "G" (later, if you care, I'll show you that even Muslim translators of the Quran have used "god" in reference to Allah).

So we can now say jehovah, or yahwey of holy ghost or jesus, you will cool with it? Right? I wonder i I say the god of the christian, that will not offend your sensibility? Well am sure you dont know which one of them; father, jehoveh, yahweh or jesus or ghost that I am talking about. This is not the case with Islam, since we have One indivisible God Creator Whose name is Allah. He said that Himself in the Qur'aan. Pick it up and read to learn.






However, since we know that the word stands alone as "ʾilāh" ("god"wink, the Quran uses its several derivatives to refer to plural deities (such as "aliha" - "gods"wink - see for example:

It is ila that is a generic god. Ilah is very specific. Not generic.






Quran 7:138 - ""O Musa (Moses)! Make for us an ilahan (a god) as they have aliha (gods)" (Hilali-Khan)


Quran 21:43 - "Or have they aliha (gods) who can guard them from Us?. . ." (Hilali-Khan)

I could expatiate on this with further references if need be, but there are numerous such in the Quran itself where the word "god" has plurals (gods) as well.

And if only you have the knowledge or wisdom to know that every where, in the Qur'aan, that gods is used, it is a challenge in a factual statement that negates any god or gods, God or Gods in th case of the Christians which expresses father to be fully God, and at the same time ghost is a fully God and son is also a fully God! But lets read along your analysis.






Now, as to the gender, we know that the masculine form of deity is called "allah" ('the god'), while the feminine form is "allat" ('the goddess' with a final 't'). It could be written as either "al-Lāt" or "al-'Ilāhat", and the difference is simply the grammatical forms in Arabic ("ta-marbuta", more precisely, as it is the consonant used in the ordinary feminine singular ending of such arabic words).

This is pure ignorance at its fullest. Please then tell what Allahu therefore means in Allahu nuri samawati, , from Suratul Nur; The Light? Did you ever study Arabic language at all? Can you read Qur'aan in Arabic? Absolutely no, I am positioning myself to say, based on your above statement. In Surah Hasr, we see where Allah says all the Most Beautiful names belongs to Him. I will expantiate on this later.







One such reference in the Qur'an is Sura 53:19 - "Have ye thought upon *Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza" (*'Al-Lat' simply means "the goddess" in contradistinction to the masculine form 'Al-ilah' or 'allah', the god).

Here we go. Pilgrim please kindly tell us why Aziz is used for masculline, and then Azizah, is used for Feminine? Plese tell us why Alimi is used for male and Alimah is used for female? Please tell us why Latif is used for male and Latifah is used for female? You dont know, do you?





This is just a summary, but should you need to be better informed, then I could oblige you and provide classical distinction both from within the Quran, the sahih Hadiths, several Islamic texts and documents, and standard Arabic scholarship. Please don't try to tease yourself on this, because I definitely will take you up on any bluff you advance on these matters.

Your summary is the most dishonest of what I have ever read. The unfortunate thing is that you were a muslim before and the Ha that could be Tha when one is not stopping in speech should have been very familiar to you. But I gather that you knew zero in Islam while you were a muslim. No wonder you were easily seduced with a single argument that was very satanic. I know that an aborisha could have taken you away from Islam, if his statement of healing had been what worked on the young person who was sick.






The point so far is not to ridicule you or Islam. . . not at all. My style is often to provide evidence for what I state as clearly as daylight so that no one is left in doubts. I don't make statements I cannot defend, that is why I don't plagiarize materials or make defenseless statements/claims. For this reason again, I often appeal to my Muslim friends to hold their peace and enjoy their muslim section instead of coming here to be the brigaders of such fallacious claims as they often assert.

Your evidence is wishy washy at best. the muslims know better. Read Surah many Surahs in the Qur'aan, there is no place that you see Allat or anything of its u, a, i to mean Islamic The God; Allah. However, you will read Allaha, Allahu, Allahi as in Lillahi, etc.






I could stop here, but if you'd like me to answer the rest of your claims with crystal clear evidence, I would oblige you.

Shalom.


This one the posts where Pilgrim.1 addressed some of these questions. I can remember that she sent olabowale running with his tail between his legs

Except that Pilgrim.1 needs Islamic education. Omo eni o le ni loo. Thats in your dream, man. Maybe I didn't read this until now. I have responded. I wish she coul stay on Semitic language instead of using Greek to splice it.
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by olabowale(m): 11:24pm On Jan 16, 2009
The beauty of a masculine element are in its strength, Power, decisiveness, firmness, irresistability as in being needed, etc.

The beautity of a feminine element are in its prettiness to the eye, mercifulness, nourshingness, elegance of perfection, etc.

In both cases of Masculinity and feminity, as appropriate, in sentence structure, you will find Allah describing Himself, in the best of grandeur and perfection. In irresistibility for example, we see the masculine usage as in Qahar. Th phrase "Wahidun Qahar" comes to mind. This eliminate any irresistability that may exist, for example between lovers or children needing parents, in specific situation. But in the case of Allah, everyone and all time is in need of Him, knowingly or unknowingly! Have we found anyone that can eliminate himself or herself from the things belonging to Allah?

As in the case of mercifulness, we need to look at the words, Rahman and or Rahim. In both cases Allah Mercifulness is wholesale; covering in totality the person receiving the mercy, while he or she knows that no effort has brough such a benefit, except from th Ultimate Generousity of Allah, alone. Who shows mercy for the most part between father and mother? It is always the woman. But Allah's Mercy is tremedously and exceedingly more that what Mom can give. The Mercy from Allah could be expressed in the feminine, as in Rahima. Then you see the part of Qur'aan reading "Wa kanallahu Allah kuli shein Rahima.
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by bindex(m): 11:35pm On Jan 16, 2009
Why are you guys still disputing the names of your Gods? Allah is no jehova and vice-versa end of story
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by BussyJ1(f): 11:46pm On Jan 16, 2009
i think both are the same. Allah is an arabic word as Olorun is Yoruba.
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by Taken(m): 3:19am On Jan 17, 2009
What is the difference between Olorun and God?
If it is the same, the difference between Allah and God is also.
The difference is which God are you referring to - The creator of all things?
If so, we can stop here. The other aspect of God is another level and that is where the complications are.
And God will reveal that to people through his spirit in due time.
Allah, God, Olorun or whatever language - Words.
Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by larrybobo1(m): 1:42am On Jun 25, 2010
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Re: God and Allah: Are they the same? by aya39aliyu: 1:01pm On Jan 17, 2015
This is not conflict matter to any reasonable human that know his religion God and Allah is thesame thing but language is diffe nothing in more than this

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