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Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus - Religion - Nairaland

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Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by abujal(m): 10:25am On Jul 27, 2007
what is the significance of the image of Mary mother of christ to the catholics?

do they actually worship her, christ or God?
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by smile4kenn(m): 12:50pm On Jul 27, 2007
Even though we worship her, whats your business.

Bleep Off, IF i am seun, i will remove this topic, look for something good to do with your time, ok?

Damn, Asshole,



Am a catholic forever
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by PawPaw3(m): 1:15pm On Jul 27, 2007
Come to my church where we worship the real God. My church is in my house now, if you want to come let me know, you will be surprised.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by abujal(m): 1:21pm On Jul 27, 2007
why are u angry? sad
if you do understand your religion well, you should be able to answer that simple question.

This same question i ask every catholic and never have been able to get good answers,

but same reaction as i just got from you.

well i believe if you don't no why you do something, you should not follow people blindly.

i am not against anyone been catholic, but there are some things we don't understand,

and its important and natural we ask.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by smile4kenn(m): 3:16pm On Jul 27, 2007
abujal:

why are u angry? sad
if you do understand your religion well, you should be able to answer that simple question.

This same question i ask every catholic and never have been able to get good answers,

but same reaction as i just got from you.

well i believe if you don't no why you do something, you should not follow people blindly.

i am not against anyone been catholic, but there are some things we don't understand,

and its important and natural we ask.


It is people like you that are blind. so bent on religion and sometimes you loose fotunes because you care about religion. I have studied about so many religion and i now know that religion doesnt matter. Why care about what catholics do and why not just focus on your religion. if you wanna know more about catholics you should visit the nearest catholic church and ask for catholic education.

Bleep you!!! you are a blind worshipper and not me.

Am born to live as a catholic
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by luckyCO(m): 3:32pm On Jul 27, 2007
One thing I keep on wondering is the state most of use to be in criticising others churches. I bet you and if you look in wardly the person who asked this question doesnt want to learn anything about whether Catholic worship Image, mary, Jesus, or God. He/she only has/had disbelif and strong opposaition against his hearing or seen against Catholic.

Nobody is arguing with you about what you saw or heard but what am interested is the mind you used in doing that. Do you think that posting this kind of thread here will earn you something? How confirmed are you that your statement is not biased? Have you looked into your religion, the one you go and cleared all the dust overthere before extending you goal over Catholic?

If your answers are correct then more of it.

God is aware of all the religion in the world and he wishes all the religion to do good. And anybody who is doing good will be rewarded by God. That is my philisophy. Why not join me in this and learn to behave such that others will learn from you instead talking that others will hear you.

I dont have anything against your post but what am after is for you to gain something that you posted it.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by smile4kenn(m): 3:36pm On Jul 27, 2007
luckyCO:


God is aware of all the religion in the world and he wishes all the religion to do good. And anybody who is doing good will be rewarded by God. That is my philisophy.
I don't have anything against your post but what am after is for you to gain something that you posted it.


God bless u.

I wonder what Seun is waiting for
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by luckyCO(m): 3:44pm On Jul 27, 2007
I saw one book and read the book about one church that I will not maintion, I was able to view their history and how the church started and who their leader was. Before I know what was happening, I developed strong hatred on the members of the church. Let me ask a question; Is hatred what God wants?

I thankGod that I stopped it. I consider you on what you are not church. My believe is that anybody who loves God will be loved by God no matter the way you love God. And loving may be different in different people. The way two people love God maybe diffrerent but maybe pointing one place.

So, the person who posted this and something like this on other churches and religion should modify it in such that poeple will learn not to hate that particular members of the church in question.

Most things people do these days are what they learn from their superiors/fathers/Mothers and God said Teach your child the way to follow when he grows he will not depart from it.

Do u think God will not consider this? Am not God and you are not. Only what we can say here is Bible said since we have not seen God.

Take care and remain blessed.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by abujal(m): 5:14pm On Jul 27, 2007
smile4kenn, sory if my post is giving you sleepless nite, i have modified the post and asked the
question without stirring the anger in you or that of any other catholic.

smile4kenn:

Even though we worship her, whats your business.

Bleep Off, IF i am seun, i will remove this topic, look for something good to do with your time, ok?

Damn, Asshole,



Am a catholic forever

well since you are not seun, then go get your own forum cry
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by aikmamah1(m): 2:12pm On Jul 28, 2007
@ topic

My dear, Catholics do not worship mary, no they dont, they only honour her. by the way Mary is not the only person whose image is seen in catholic churches, one equally sees the image of the saints,( ss peter, paul, micheal to mention but a few)

Catholics simply recorginse the good works[b] they[/b] have done and try to emulate[b] their[/b] life style which they believe have erned them heaven.
Jesus is true God true man, as true man he has a mother (unless ur wana tell me Christ is not man) and if u agree he has mum i mean a sweet mum who has been chosen before hand to be so i do not c any reason y some peaple who choses to should not honour her

"Blessed are you among women", "behold all generation shall call me blessed" no be me talk am na so e dey for bible

for me , i am a christain, wether you chose to honour her or not just be a christain, christ-like
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Kuns: 4:29pm On Jul 28, 2007
@All

There is no where in the bible where Jesus told people to worship (honour) himself or his mother.

Jesus taught people to pray to the father (Most High) which is in Heaven.

And this was not refering Mary Or himself.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by smile4kenn(m): 4:38pm On Jul 28, 2007
@ Kuns

You are insane
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by aikmamah1(m): 4:58pm On Jul 28, 2007
@smile4ken
Kuns is not insane, he is just speaking according to the depth of his knowledge

@kuns
"pray without ceasing" do u pray with out ceasing. Please don't tell me that what Christ meant by the statement lets just be talking about what "He said" so far you're concerned with what he "told" us ( in other words his direct statments.)
"i came to bring fire, for my sake father will rise againt son, mother against daughter" when was tha last time u fought your dad? (christ said u should thats y he came)
don't forget that jusus built his church on satan "peter you're rock and on this rock i build my church" "get behind me satan" he was refering to peter some moment after he built his church on him

the pont i am trying to make is this we do not just limit ourselves to what christ "told" us we limit rather on what he ment, his intentions for such stament if i would say, the massage.
don't forget "for a rich man to go to heaven would be as difficult as a camel passing through the eye of the niddle" yet "money answereth all problems"

having said that; "mother behold your son; son your mother" if she was'nt that important to him, he for no make that statement. or wetin u think?
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Oby1(f): 1:43pm On Sep 20, 2007
I think the best thing is to be silent .  Don't answer any post from them, because they hv made up their mind to hate catholics, which is very wrong.  The more you explain to them the more they find more contradiction.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by pilgrim1(f): 1:57pm On Sep 20, 2007
Oby1:

I think the best thing is to keep them (protestant) silence. Don't answer any post from them, because they hv made up their mind to hate catholics, which is very wrong. The more you explain to them the more they find more contradiction.

@Oby1,

We know how the Roman Catholic Church "silenced" dissenters - so what you're saying here is not new. You may have chosen to not answer any posts by non-Catholics, and I sympathize with you on that (because in other instances, you'll find that I'm not one to just accept any accusation against the Catholic Church simply because every has something to say about Catholicism).

Nonetheless, it is not true that we have "made up" our minds to "hate" Catholics - or even anyone for that matter. We don't hate Catholics as much as Catholics themselves have "loved" us with hate-speech. We have been "lovingly" called "devils" anti-Christ, and all sorts - and we still continue to enjoy the "love". Would you rather we switched over and start "loving" you in like manner as we have had from your brethren?

In discussing the Christian faith, we all have various understandings of God's WORD. But a clear Catholic contradiction and contravention should not, and cannot, be treated as a mere non-essential: it affects us all. When I was a Muslim, we were made to believe that the Christian doctrine of "Trinity" is comprised of the Father, the Son, and Mary the "Mather of God" - and you could imagine what we felt as Muslims! Today, The Muslim world is more focused on attacking evangelical Christians, and Catholics behave like that is the wahala of Protestants since they're non-Catholics!

This double-standard and hypocrisy from the Vatican should be discountenanced. On the one hand, you say "Catholics love" us; and then your Pope denounces other Christians - and when queried, the same Catholics who find nothing wrong in the Pope's denunciation are the ones who come here telling us that we've made up our minds to "hate" Catholics! This is why such hypocrisy should not be swallowed from Catholics - and we do hope that you'd come to yours senses sooner than later.

Cheers.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Infourmer: 3:13pm On Sep 20, 2007
Was a catholic though,but I surely know that catholics dont worship Mary. Shes only being honoured as the mother of Christ. What most catholics believe is that they can get an easy access to Jesus through Mary the mother,which I dont quite agree is normal,they are seeing it from the human point of view that you can get to a person by just linking through the mother but Christianity aint that way.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by cgift(m): 8:57am On Sep 21, 2007
Infourmer:

Was a catholic though,but I surely know that catholics don't worship Mary. Shes only being honoured as the mother of Christ. What most catholics believe is that they can get an easy access to Jesus through Mary the mother,which I don't quite agree is normal,they are seeing it from the human point of view that you can get to a person by just linking through the mother but Christianity aint that way.

Infourmer, no doubt you were deep as a catholic. Their popes (past) have said it ooh-aah that thy worship Mary. Thy have referred to Mary as their saviour and not Jesus. The ones coming to this thread no abysmally little about what they think the RCC is? Is it not the sam Catholic church that burns bibles ad kills protestants. They are very violent? Why do you think the catholci church endorss Islam? Yo no sabi anything. They have a principle of inclusion which allows all other religion which negates Christ's teachings. Why do you think they call Mary 'their lady of fatima'? Catholics aren't christains my brother to crown it all.

Their popes / priests (they claim to be Jesus himself) would say that you don have to think for yourselves; just allow the pope do it for you since he is Jesus himself (and is therefor infallible) for because Adam thought for himself, that was why he sinned against God. These ones have been fed with all lies that they have become as androids and do not even bother to read their own bibles on their own. Too many anti-christ's doctrines. Google Charles Chiniquy, a priest who spent 50 yrs in the church of Rome and let him tell you what they do from the priests to the pope who declares he is a god.

Do you know they have swron that whatever the pope says something is, so shall it be even if they know it is a lie? If the pope says this colour is white instead of black, they will all defend it that it is white? The Vatican is a cult exposed in the book of Revelation? Need to know more? Do you know the Jesuits?
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Infourmer: 12:19pm On Sep 21, 2007
pls where can I have the link that states catholics kill and burn bibles. If you havnt got any prove,pls swallow your accusations jare cheesy
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by pilgrim1(f): 6:24pm On Sep 21, 2007
Infourmer:

please where can I have the link that states catholics kill and burn bibles. If you havnt got any prove,please swallow your accusations jare cheesy

E no hard naw. . . u sef for do a lil bit of research and you go find plenty! grin
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by mekoyo(m): 6:36pm On Sep 21, 2007
Even though we worship her, whats your business.

Bleep Off, IF i am seun, i will remove this topic, look for something good to do with your time, ok?

Damn, Asshole,



Am a catholic forever

Just imagine what is coming from your mouth and you'll call yourself a christian? Hey i'm not judging you but please try to be polite the poster is just trying to ere his own view and seek answer to his question. As a true catholic why not give him the answer straight way.

Now the last sunday to easter i was in school about coming back and i was just gardering my TF back home and i didnt want to go to service in skool cause i stay offcamp. I decided to join my friends to their church which is Catholic and that was palm sunday, may i tell you that i regretted even leaving the house that day.
It was like i didn't gain anythging then why did i go?

Jesus Christ died on the cross of calvary for our sins so lets give our life to him.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by pilgrim1(f): 12:43am On Nov 19, 2007
@topic: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus


Worshipping MARY - did YOU know?

E[/b]xcerpts from the "[b]Fulgens Corona" Encyclical of Pope Pius XII:

[center][list]

34. But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which from the earliest Christian era worshipped the heavenly mother, its patroness, with a special devotion. As all know, there are many sacred edifices here, in which she is proposed for the devotion of the Roman people; but the greatest without doubt is the Liberian Basilica, in which the mosaics of Our predecessor of pious memory, Sixtus III, still glisten, an outstanding monument to the Divine maternity of the Virgin Mary, and in which the "salvation of the Roman people" (Salus Populi Romani) benignly smiles. Thither especially let the suppliant citizens flock, and before that most sacred image let all put forth pious prayers, imploring especially that Rome, which is the principal city of the Catholic world, may also give the lead in Faith, in piety and in sanctity.
[/list][/center]

[list]Source: "Fulgens Corona" - Encyclical of Pope Pius XII [from a Vatican website].[/list]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My small kweshun now is: IS there proof or not that the Popes have indicated that they WORSHIP Mary - "heavenly mother"?

I hail again O!! grin
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by lawyer(m): 10:44am On Nov 19, 2007
@pilgrim

After reading your last 2 posts on this thread, i have come to find out that you refer to catholics more in the first person singular using the metaphor as " the Vatican or " your Pope". And you base your arguments surrounding what you percieve as wrong amongst these 2 issues and lump every catholic to either be slaves of the pope or bureaucrats of the Vatican.

Most of your links all come from canonized versions of the previous or present popes or mishaps of the evil deeds of the vatican years back.

Pray tell thee:

Who do you have a problem with as it relates to catholicism"

1. The name Catholics or Roman catholics

2. The popes or previous popes and all ( or some ) of their comments, actions and decisions

3. The prescence of the vatican in worldly affairs or the fact that it even exists

4. The total doctrine or some of the doctrines of the catholic church ( obviously i know your stand on mariolatory so no need for another knee-jerk reaction here)

5. The catholic bible or the word of God bible according to you ( b'cos i dont know which one is which anymore ranging from KJV, Gideons bible etc)

6. Anyother thing that i regretably forgot to include.


also after reading this post :

Infourmer, no doubt you were deep as a catholic. Their popes (past) have said it ooh-aah that thy worship Mary. Thy have referred to Mary as their saviour and not Jesus. The ones coming to this thread no abysmally little about what they think the RCC is? Is it not the sam Catholic church that burns bibles ad kills protestants. They are very violent? Why do you think the catholci church endorss Islam? Yo no sabi anything. They have a principle of inclusion which allows all other religion which negates Christ's teachings. Why do you think they call Mary 'their lady of fatima'? Catholics aren't christains my brother to crown it all.

Their popes / priests (they claim to be Jesus himself) would say that you don have to think for yourselves; just allow the pope do it for you since he is Jesus himself (and is therefor infallible) for because Adam thought for himself, that was why he sinned against God. These ones have been fed with all lies that they have become as androids and do not even bother to read their own bibles on their own. Too many anti-christ's doctrines. Google Charles Chiniquy, a priest who spent 50 years in the church of Rome and let him tell you what they do from the priests to the pope who declares he is a god.

Do you know they have swron that whatever the pope says something is, so shall it be even if they know it is a lie? If the pope says this colour is white instead of black, they will all defend it that it is white? The Vatican is a cult exposed in the book of Revelation? Need to know more? Do you know the Jesuits?


I am sorry 2 say pilgrim, cgift has become a very poor imitation of you and it's either he is rubbing of you by trying to compete with you in trying to be the first to proclaim ascerbic and offending statements or you are quietly encouraging him to deviate from debates and delve into the realm of bloviates ( cos i no understand again )

I have never seen the pope ftf b4 and i have never been to the vatican and i can tell you i have not read one canonized speech from any of the popes whatsoever but until you bring out all these posted links about the church, many of us never really cared or bothered about the politics or happenings of it. We just pray to God and thank him for his daily mercies. So my question is what really is your beef with catholics. The ordinary catholic in Nassarawa state who knows nothing or the pope living or dead? Its better to know where you stand so as to know where your anger can be effectively rerouted to be contained more effectively.

Once again No pun intended wink
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Carlosein(m): 4:43pm On Nov 19, 2007
hello everyone,

Do catholics actually worship Mary Mother of Jesus?

this is the trillion dollar question. here is an answer given on another

thread answering the same question, though abridged (pilgrim.1 and some others have seen it before).

i have decided to showcase the teachings of the catholic church

from it's most fundamental handbook, the catechism of christian doctrine (or the penny

catechism as it's more commonly known). here is a link to the catechism below:

http://www.memorare.com/catechism/pennycat.txt

now everyone should kindly note questions 180 to 187, i have reproduced them below


180.  What are the chief sins against Religion?
           The chief sins against Religion are the worship
           of false gods or idols, and the giving to any
           creature whatsoever the honor which belongs to
           God alone.
     
181.  Does the first Commandment forbid the making of images?
           The first Commandment does not forbid the making
           of images, but the making of idols; that is, it
           forbids us to make idols to be adored or honored
           as gods.

182.  Does the first Commandment forbid dealing with the
              devil and superstitious practices?
           The first Commandment forbids all dealing with the
           devil and superstitious practices, such as
           consulting spiritualists and fortune-tellers, and
           trusting to charms, omens, dreams, and such like
           fooleries.

183.  Are all sins of sacrilege and simony also for-
           bidden by the first Commandment?
           All sins of sacrilege and simony are also for-
           bidden by the first Commandment.

184.  Is it forbidden to give divine honor or worship
           to the Angels and Saints?
           It is forbidden to give divine honor or worship
           to the Angels and Saints, for this belongs to
           God alone.

185.  What kind of honor or worship should we give to
           the Angels and Saints?
           We should pay to the Angels and Saints an inferior
           honor or worship, for this is due to them as the
           servants and special friends of God.
     
186.  What honor should we give to relics, crucifixes,
           and holy pictures?
           We should give to relics, crucifixes, and holy
           pictures a relative honor, as they relate to
           Christ and his Saints, and are memorials of them.

187.  Do we pray to relics and images?
           We do not pray to relics or images, for they
           can neither see, nor hear, nor help us.


now everyone, please note question 185 in particular.

this, i think, is the almighty "kweshun" pilgrim.1 has wanted

catholics to answer precisely due to her misunderstanding (IMHO)

of the word "worship". i assure you she is not alone on this one.

according to the compact oxford dictionary (just one of many i could have used, mind u)

the word worship is defined as:

  • noun
1. the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
2. religious rites and ceremonies.
3. great admiration or devotion.
4. (His/Your Worship) chiefly Brit. a title of respect for a magistrate or mayor.

  • verb (worshipped, worshipping; US also worshiped, worshiping)
1. show reverence and adoration for (a deity).
2. feel great admiration or devotion for.

and here is a link to the dictionary, just in case.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=english+dictionary.

but usually, when we talk of the word worship, we all tend to generally

think of no.1 above i.e show reverence and adoration for (a deity) i.e God.

but we also have the other definitions above.

and my dear brethren, when we talk of worship of mary and the saints,

like she has done so far, rest assured that we do not refer to the worship

reserved for the Divine and Almighty God alone. we really mean no.2,

i.e feel great admiration or devotion for.

So catholics have great admiration and devotion for Mary (as our Mother)

and the Saints (as our brothers and sisters).
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by pilgrim1(f): 5:11pm On Nov 19, 2007
@Carlosein,

Carlosein:

hello everyone,

Do catholics actually worship Mary Mother of Jesus?

this is the trillion dollar question. here is an answer given on another

thread answering the same question, though abridged (pilgrim.1 and some others have seen it before).

i have decided to showcase the teachings of the catholic church

from it's most fundamental handbook, the catechism of christian doctrine (or the penny

catechism as it's more commonly known). here is a link to the catechism below:

http://www.memorare.com/catechism/pennycat.txt

now everyone should kindly note questions 180 to 187, i have reproduced them below


180. What are the chief sins against Religion?
The chief sins against Religion are the worship
of false gods or idols, and the giving to any
creature whatsoever the honor which belongs to
God alone.

181. Does the first Commandment forbid the making of images?
The first Commandment does not forbid the making
of images, but the making of idols; that is, it
forbids us to make idols to be adored or honored
as gods.

182. Does the first Commandment forbid dealing with the
devil and superstitious practices?
The first Commandment forbids all dealing with the
devil and superstitious practices, such as
consulting spiritualists and fortune-tellers, and
trusting to charms, omens, dreams, and such like
fooleries.

183. Are all sins of sacrilege and simony also for-
bidden by the first Commandment?
All sins of sacrilege and simony are also for-
bidden by the first Commandment.

184. Is it forbidden to give divine honor or worship
to the Angels and Saints?
It is forbidden to give divine honor or worship
to the Angels and Saints, for this belongs to
God alone.

185. What kind of honor or worship should we give to
the Angels and Saints?
We should pay to the Angels and Saints an inferior
honor or worship
, for this is due to them as the
servants and special friends of God.

186. What honor should we give to relics, crucifixes,
and holy pictures?
We should give to relics, crucifixes, and holy
pictures a relative honor
, as they relate to
Christ and his Saints, and are memorials of them.

187. Do we pray to relics and images?
We do not pray to relics or images, for they
can neither see, nor hear, nor help us.


now everyone, please note question 185 in particular.

this, i think, is the almighty "kweshun" pilgrim.1 has wanted

catholics to answer precisely due to her misunderstanding (IMHO)

of the word "worship". i assure you she is not alone on this one.

according to the compact oxford dictionary (just one of many i could have used, mind u)

the word worship is defined as:

• noun
1. the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
2. religious rites and ceremonies.
3. great admiration or devotion.
4. (His/Your Worship) chiefly Brit. a title of respect for a magistrate or mayor.

• verb (worshipped, worshipping; US also worshiped, worshiping)
1. show reverence and adoration for (a deity).
2. feel great admiration or devotion for.

and here is a link to the dictionary, just in case.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=english+dictionary.

but usually, when we talk of the word worship, we all tend to generally

think of no.1 above i.e show reverence and adoration for (a deity) i.e God.

but we also have the other definitions above.

and my dear brethren, when we talk of worship of mary and the saints,

like she has done so far, rest assured that we do not refer to the worship

reserved for the Divine and Almighty God alone. we really mean no.2,

i.e feel great admiration or devotion for.

So catholics have great admiration and devotion for Mary (as our Mother)

and the Saints (as our brothers and sisters).


How many times would you recycle this illiterate excuse?

When you posted it in the other thread, what response did you get from other discussants? They simply offered that WORSHIP is duely rendered to God alone! The RCC excuse of always seeking to redefine Biblical ideas for the idolatry of Mariolatry is the bane of your spirituality.

Carlosein:

185. What kind of honor or worship should we give to
the Angels and Saints?
We should pay to the Angels and Saints an inferior
honor or worship
, for this is due to them as the
servants and special friends of God.

186. What honor should we give to relics, crucifixes,
and holy pictures?
We should give to relics, crucifixes, and holy
pictures a relative honor
, as they relate to
Christ and his Saints, and are memorials of them.

You only keep confirming all we have been saying - and in a queer way have come round confirming the point that Catholics worship Mary (185) as well as devote their souls to the idolatry of venerating relics and statues (186). Were these not the very things which Catholics have boldly denied on Nairaland? Una no get shame again? undecided

Please come back with more excuses that only turn out to confirm the Mariolatry of the RCC.

Regards.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by pilgrim1(f): 5:35pm On Nov 19, 2007
@lawyer,

lawyer:

@pilgrim

After reading your last 2 posts on this thread, i have come to find out that you refer to catholics more in the first person singular using the metaphor as " the Vatican or " your Pope". And you base your arguments surrounding what you percieve as wrong amongst these 2 issues and lump every catholic to either be slaves of the pope or bureaucrats of the Vatican.

Most of your links all come from canonized versions of the previous or present popes or mishaps of the evil deeds of the vatican years back.

Pray tell thee:

Who do you have a problem with as it relates to catholicism"

1. The name Catholics or Roman catholics

2. The popes or previous popes and all ( or some ) of their comments, actions and decisions

3. The prescence of the vatican in worldly affairs or the fact that it even exists

4. The total doctrine or some of the doctrines of the catholic church ( obviously i know your stand on mariolatory so no need for another knee-jerk reaction here)

5. The catholic bible or the word of God bible according to you ( b'because i don't know which one is which anymore ranging from KJV, Gideons bible etc)

6. Anyother thing that i regretably forgot to include.

I have just two verse in answer to your queries:

1 John 1:5-6
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth".

Rather than look at the purity of God's WORD and ask Him to help you walk in the integrity of His undiluted truth, your queries often tend to seek consolation for remaining in a system that has self-confessedly admitted to the things which God has pronounced as abomination in His sight.

Will all the "good works" of a man atone for his stubborn acknowledgemnt of doing the very thing that God has called "abomination"? Please think carefully before you fly off the handle.


lawyer:

also after reading this post :

Infourmer, no doubt you were deep as a catholic. Their popes (past) have said it ooh-aah that thy worship Mary. Thy have referred to Mary as their saviour and not Jesus. The ones coming to this thread no abysmally little about what they think the RCC is? Is it not the sam Catholic church that burns bibles ad kills protestants. They are very violent? Why do you think the catholci church endorss Islam? Yo no sabi anything. They have a principle of inclusion which allows all other religion which negates Christ's teachings. Why do you think they call Mary 'their lady of fatima'? Catholics aren't christains my brother to crown it all.

Their popes / priests (they claim to be Jesus himself) would say that you don have to think for yourselves; just allow the pope do it for you since he is Jesus himself (and is therefor infallible) for because Adam thought for himself, that was why he sinned against God. These ones have been fed with all lies that they have become as androids and do not even bother to read their own bibles on their own. Too many anti-christ's doctrines. Google Charles Chiniquy, a priest who spent 50 years in the church of Rome and let him tell you what they do from the priests to the pope who declares he is a god.

Do you know they have swron that whatever the pope says something is, so shall it be even if they know it is a lie? If the pope says this colour is white instead of black, they will all defend it that it is white? The Vatican is a cult exposed in the book of Revelation? Need to know more? Do you know the Jesuits?

I am sorry 2 say pilgrim, cgift has become a very poor imitation of you and it's either he is rubbing of you by trying to compete with you in trying to be the first to proclaim ascerbic and offending statements or you are quietly encouraging him to deviate from debates and delve into the realm of bloviates ( because i no understand again )

Again, you're wrong - cgift is a gentleman with a sane mind of his own (as I would regard you). Just because he has very strongly debated Catholicism does not mean that your inference was correct.

It was because of such allegations that I excused myself from the other Catholic thread for a while. I have begged people like b.rent to come back and clear the air just so that Catholics would understand that he was not being spurred by me in any way. But no, he has since declined - and I had to move on. But it is amazing that even Catholics themselves are the ones who are confirming the Mariolatry in the Catholic Church that they once denied.

lawyer:

I have never seen the pope ftf before and i have never been to the vatican and i can tell you i have not read one canonized speech from any of the popes whatsoever but until you bring out all these posted links about the church, many of us never really cared or bothered about the politics or happenings of it.

That is why I ahve asked Catholics to please wake up and go read the Vatican archives instead or pretending with all their might to run away from that challenge. grin

lawyer:

We just pray to God and thank him for his daily mercies. So my question is what really is your beef with catholics. The ordinary catholic in Nassarawa state who knows nothing or the pope living or dead? Its better to know where you stand so as to know where your anger can be effectively rerouted to be contained more effectively.

I am not angry at anybody - but I have enough common sense to passionately disavow the baneful practices that have been admitted in the RCC by those who run its affairs. The ordinary Catholic in Nasarawa may not know what he is doing - but if it wasn't for the RCC, would such a person be known as a Catholic, let alone "ordinary"? What did Jesus warn against that kind of idea in Matthew 23:15 - "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

You already know what God has warned against any form of idolatry! The 'Nasarawa' gentleman would not have been enticed into such practices and remain an "ordinary" slave to such idolatry if the RCC has simply sought to bring such a man to God's undiluted truth. Rather, what I see Catholics doing so predicatably is to seek for excuses to remain in a system that has largely departed from God's WORD.

lawyer:

Once again No pun intended wink

I appreciate that. Cheers. wink
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Yisraylite(m): 7:02pm On Nov 19, 2007
Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"From this same Catholic Church you have accepted your Sunday, and that Sunday, as the Lord's day, she had handed down as a tradition; and the entire Protestant world has accepted it as tradition, for you have not an iota of Scripture to establish it. Therefore that which you have accepted as your rule of faith, inadequate as it of course it is, as well as your Sunday, you have accepted on the authority of the Roman Catholic Church." D. B. Ray, The Papal Controversy, 1892, page 179

Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"I have repeatedly offered $1000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. Priest Thomas Enright, CSSR, President of Redemptorist College, Kansas City, Missouri, in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, and printed in the American Sentinel, June 1883, a New York Roman Catholic journal.

31 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her Divine mission, changed the day [of worship] from Saturday to Sunday. , The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church, as Spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant world." Editorial, The Catholic Mirror (Baltimore), September 23, 1893.

32 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." Cardinal Gibbons (for many years head of the Catholic Church in America), The Faith of Our Fathers (92d ed., rev.; Baltimore: John Murphy Company), p.89.

33 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." James Cardinal Gibbons, Catholic Mirror, Dec. 23, 1893.

34 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Catholic] Church outside the Bible." "To Tell You the Truth," The Catholic Virginian, 22 (October 3, 1947), 9.

35 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"The Divine institution of a day of rest from ordinary occupations and of religious worship, transferred by the authority of the [Catholic] Church from the Sabbath, the last day, to Sunday the first day of the week, , is one of the most patent signs that we are a Christian people." James Cardinal Gibbons, The Cross and the Flag, Our Church and Country (New York: The Catholic Historical League of America, 1899), pp. 24, 25.

36 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Sunday is founded, not on Scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no Scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, Sept. 17, 1893

37 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"They (the Protestants) deem it their duty to keep the Sunday Holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason, The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance, The author of the Sunday law, is the Catholic Church." Ecclesiastical Review, Feb. 1914.

38 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Q. Which is the Sabbath Day?

"A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

"A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." Peter Guierman, The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957 ed.), p.50. Copyright 1930 by B. Herder Book Co., St.Louis.

cool
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by owel: 9:11am On Nov 20, 2007
i am proud to be catholic and one i be for ever, i honour mary cos she deserve my honour, if God himself, angel and Elizabeth mother of John the baptist can honour i see no reason i should not. do u know the mean of 'hail' God can still put in christ in Mary womb miraclerly without does praise and respect but he knowns who she is. as 4 the images i dont buy the ideal of worshiping it. cos i have never gone to church where the priest say bow down and all bow, i have not seen that b4, this other churches that take so much abt catholic , even the person that put this post worship their pastor and pastor's wife wife more than Jesus. take pastor Christ 4 example, instead of the to emulate christ, they wont to relax their hear like their pastor, talk like him, jump like him , do everything like him, and do u other christain call ur pastors wife mummy na she born u
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by pilgrim1(f): 9:16pm On Dec 10, 2007
@topic: "Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus"

Why is it that Catholics have not been able to tell us why one of their Popes categorically stated that they worship Mary?
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Ifestoja: 10:56am On Dec 12, 2007
Its unfortune what christianity has turned to and the level of hatred going through between christians especially catholics and non catholics. Let me start by asking where the hatred is coming from. That catholics honors mary, i can never reacal her asking anyone to honor her, why do people have to hate her this much. Its not by her making that she was chosen to be the mother of Christ. Remember amongst all the women, she was the only one found worthy. Its so wicked and hateful for people to call her all sort of names like envelop. You people that are talking of worshipping or honouring Mary, have u ever thought of how people see most of these pentecostal pastors and their wives as God. I dont think catholics accord to Mary half the respect and honour pentecostals accord their pastors and wives. Catholics go to mary for prayers and hear what they pray to her HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE THE LORD IS WITH YOU, BLESSED ARE YOU AMONGST WOMEN AND BLESSED IS THE FRUTH OF YOUR WOMB JESUS; HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW TILL THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH. The first sentence were the words of Angel Micheal. So tell me, what is wrong with this prayer. How many times do you go to someone and ask the person to pray for you, someone who one day said that God said to him and before you know it, he is a man of God. Catholics recognizes Jesus as their lord and personal saviour and Mary just a mediator. Refering to her as an Idol i think is an insult to God himself. Pope might have said catholics worship her but remember he is human just like anyother person. Pope goes to confessions and ask for forgiveness of his sins just like anyother person. Catholics dont assume popes as Jesus and will never. Just like Oyakihlome in Christ Embassy, he is the head in catholic church and that does not make him perfect. Catholics has rules that guides them world wide, rules that were made right from the start and Pope alone cannot change that. Its weired to refer to Basilica as a cult. My dear dont be too obsessed with this catholic issue before you see your self commiting a sin. Some fanatics in Catholic definitely go far and out of track in doing somethings they are not suppose to, which is applicable in all churches but the Catholic rules always prevails. Catholics dont worship image but its like a point of focus and concentration. Which images are we even talking about, Images of Jesus, Saints, and Mary. Let me ask you, do you have any problem with the image of Jesus christ or the crucifix because its still an image or Idol as some will call it. Let us not criticise churches, let us focus on doing what is right. If other churches springing up were any better, i think Nigeria could have been a better place by now. Please, concentrate on your salvation and others instead of digging deep and looking for facts to proof this church is not doing the right thing. If we all come out like this and face the government with the same vain, i beleive we will be making progress. No body knows which is which, i advice you stay tight where you are, mind your business and remain focused . Apart from catholics, there are lots of controversies. Mountain of fire beleives the enemies should die by fire, Jehovahs Witness beleives the kingdom is here on earth, they dont even beleive in xmas or trinity, deeper life has their own beleive, some beleive that to put on jewelry is a sin, some dont fix weavon and some dont wear make up beleiving is from devil. Some goes as far as not going to hospitals while sick and some dont watch televisions. Some wear white garment with no shoes and some worship on saturdays. Some dont tie their hair while going to church, some use holy water while some see it as nonsence. Lots of differences and its quite funny because every body is backing it up with the bible, same bible. Remember, evrybody claims God directed him or her to start his or her own church. Its ironical its the same God that we worship. Please brethren, stay were you are and pray to God you are at the right place because everybody is sure he or she is at the right place.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by MP007(m): 8:08am On Dec 13, 2007
Jesus should is the center of attraction, the main actor, the all-star, the main man and the author and finisher of our faith. He and only he alone should be our "primary" focus, Thank God for Mary through whom Jesus came to earth. Its really an honor, Bless her and talk about her but dont you ever worship or pray to her, she is not the God you serve. Remember Mary was human, we worship a spirit God, amen!
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by boywest(m): 2:09pm On Jul 09, 2008
I usually do not participate in religeous discuss but i feel the need to contribute to this one. what do Roman catholics mean when they say ' holy mary mother of god pray for us sinners'? when the bible is clear ' no one cometh unto the father except through me'

When Jesus was departing, he said he will send us a helper in the Person of the Holy Spirit, who will teaches more thing and give us understanding of things, with whose help we shall perform signs and wonders. Jesus never siad we shoule pay any attention to mary.

Why do Roman Catholics pray in front of the Alter that has a picture of mary? if not to worship her.

I became interested in all of this, becuase i am married to a catholic, i remember that prior to our marriage her priest then ( she now worship in my church) told me i was not of the same faith with her. that struck me, i thot we were all christains but different denominations?

The idea of praying for the soul of the dead nko? the bible is clear, the wages of sin is death and after death JUDGEMENT. if person don die, no amount of prayer fit save him soul again. so why do hey continue to pray for the dead?

The rosary? where is it in the bible that it should be counted?

Why confessions, why confess your sins to a felow man? the claim is the priest represents Jesus/God here on earth. If God wanted such representations, he would have made it clear, the power HE gave riegt from when Jesus sent out the disiples was to heal and cast out demons. the power to forgive sins is the soul right of God. No man can tell you, 'your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more'

The bible says, if you confess your sins and acknoledge Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour, believeing in His death and resurrection you will be saved.

i Just want answers.
Re: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus by Ganjaseed: 3:38pm On Jul 09, 2008
@smile4kenn

You are a big disgrace to the Catholics. Imagine the words you wrote in reaction to the simple question. If you cant defend your faith then shut up ! You do not belong anywhere. A faithfull Catholic will never answer the way you did, please stop damaging the Image of the Catholics.

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