"Jesus" and "Christ" ?
[center]^{To learn about Christianity, the best place to go is the Bible itself}[/center]

Mark 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

Who and what are they? 
Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? 
What is Jesus? What is Christ? 
[center]^{Got truth decay? Brush up on your Bible!}[/center]

JESUS, the anointed one
CHRIST, His anointing

mabell:

JESUS, the anointed one
CHRIST, His anointing

[img width=350 height=400]http://thepqnation.com/livingwicked/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/803205-holy_facepalm_super.jpg[/img]
[center]JESUS, Saviour | CHRIST, The Anointed One[/center]

^^^ U dey mind am? Na Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar they teach them the nonsense.

LOL at Holy Facepalm

Who is Abram? Who is Abraham?

Who is Sarai? Who is Sarah?

Who is Jacob? Who is Israel?

Who is Simon? Who is Peter?

Who is Saul? Who is Paul?

"Jesus" and "Christ" ?

Mark 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

Who and what are they?

Who is Jesus? Who is Christ?

What is Jesus? What is Christ?  Huh Huh Huh

[center]When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished." He bowed his head, and gave up his spirit.[/center]

"JESUS" and "CHRIST" ?
What and who are they?
What is Jesus? What is Christ?
Who is Jesus? Who is Christ?
Twins?
Are they twins?
[center]A charlatan makes obscure what is clear; a thinker makes clear what is obscure - Hugh Kingsmill[/center]

Jesus => became => Christ

Dulcet7:

Jesus => became => Christ

It is like walking on egg shells here, likely hear a pin if it drops here
So they are not twins then
How did Jesus => become => Christ?

[center]God is not the name of God, but an opinion about Him.[/center]

[Quote]A charlatan makes obscure what is clear; a thinker makes clear what is obscure - Hugh Kingsmil [/quote] the above quote aptly explains the charlatan nature of most our penterascal preachers in their nairaland representative (joagbaje) who is always trying to obscure simple biblical truth with so called revelation knowledge 'revealed' to the chief charlatan Oyaks himself.

Why dont you just give your own explanation if you have any. Are you missing me?

KunleOshob:

the above quote aptly explains the charlatan nature of most our penterascal preachers in their nairaland representative (joagbaje) who is always trying to obscure simple biblical truth with so called revelation knowledge 'revealed' to the chief charlatan Oyaks himself.

Joagbaje:

Why dont you just give your own explanation if you have any. Are you missing me?

It is explanations that is AWOL here
[center]Virtues don’t happen in a vacuum[/center]

"JESUS" and "CHRIST" ?
Who is Jesus? Who is Christ?

The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ is a novel by Philip Pullman.

atheistic author Philip Pullman puts forward his own version of fiction

The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ is a novel by Philip Pullman.

Published at Easter 2010 by Canongate Books,
it tells the story of Jesus as if he were two people, "Jesus" and "Christ," with contrasting personalities;

Jesus being a moral and godly man, and his brother Christ a calculating figure who wishes to use Jesus' legacy to found a powerful Church.

The book has attracted controversy, as well as hate mail sent to Pullman by Christian fundamentalists threatening him with damnation.

In Pullman's own words,
"The story I tell comes out of the tension within the dual nature of Jesus Christ, but what I do with it is my responsibility alone.

Parts of it read like a novel, parts like history, and parts like a fairy tale; I wanted it to be like that because it is, among other things, a story about how stories become stories.

[center]Nonsense on stilts![/center]

Hello Mazee, how's the kingdom?

"Jesus", "saviour" was a promisory name. "For he shall save, "

"Christ", "the anointed one" is the fulfilment of this promise, proof to the promised Jews that God does not forget his promises.

"Jesus the Christ", the saviour anointed to save. When did Jesus become Christ? At the beginning of his ministry when The Father anointed Him to work.

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, to bring good tidings to the poor, strengthen the weak, release the oppressed, "
I paraphrased, but that was when Jesus became Christ.

Dulcet7:

Hello Mazee, how's the kingdom?

"Jesus", "saviour" was a promisory name. "For he shall save, "

"Christ", "the anointed one" is the fulfilment of this promise, proof to the promised Jews that God does not forget his promises.

"Jesus the Christ", the saviour anointed to save. When did Jesus become Christ? At the beginning of his ministry when The Father anointed Him to work.

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,  to bring good tidings to the poor, strengthen the weak, release the oppressed, "
I paraphrased, but that was when Jesus became Christ.

The Kingdom is getting repopulated and the gates of hell are increasingly buckling

"Jesus officially became Christ at the beginning of His ministry when The Father anointed Him to work"

OK. So are you saying Christ was latent or embryonic in Jesus?

Are you also saying Christ was dormant, was inactive in Jesus until the baptism?

Or are you saying Christ was absent or nonexistent in Jesus before baptism?

What is Jesus?

Greek:Christ and Hebrew:Messiah

Who is Christ? Christ is "the anointed one" - the fulfilment of the promise, proof to the promised Jews that God does not forget his promises

OK. Then what is the anointing? What is the "the anointed one" then? What is Christ?

1 Samuel 16:1;13-14
1And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.
13Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren:
and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Luke 2:40
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

[center]". . . proof to the promised Jews that God does not forget his promises . . ."
Promised the Jews?
Note: Matthew 15:24 I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
not house of Judah[/center]

[img]http://bks0.books.google.com/books?id=7FUtpV81w_gC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1[/img]
[center]We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything - Thomas A. Edison [/center]

http://www.freebooks4u.net/fantasticfiction/GoodMan-Jesus-and-the-Scoundrel-Christ.html



http://www.freebooks4u.net/fantasticfiction/GoodMan-Jesus-and-the-Scoundrel-Christ.html

[center]"What is truth?" - Pontius Pilate[/center]

mazee:

The Kingdom is getting repopulated and the gates of hell are increasingly buckling

Alright that's great.

mazee:

"Jesus officially became Christ at the beginning of His ministry when The Father anointed Him to work"

OK. So are you saying Christ was latent or embryonic in Jesus?

Are you also saying Christ was dormant, was inactive in Jesus until the baptism?

Or are you saying Christ was absent or nonexistent in Jesus before baptism?

If you believe God sent Jesus, then I likewise believe that with God nothing is ever latent, dormant or embryonic. Nothing is perchance, all is planned ahead of time; even if titles like "Christ" are not ascribed on time - they were always there.

mazee:

What is Jesus?

'Jesus' is not translated or transliterated from / into 'The Christ' in any language, but they are one and the same person.

In better words than I can muster:

The word Jesus is the Latin form of the Greek Iesous, which in turn is the transliteration of the Hebrew Jeshua, or Joshua, or again Jehoshua, meaning "Jehovah is salvation." Though the name in one form or another occurs frequently in the Old Testament, it was not borne by a person of prominence between the time of Josue, the son of Nun and Josue, the high priest in the days of Zorobabel. It was also the name of the author of the "apocryphal" book of Ecclesiaticus, of one of Christ's ancestors mentioned in the genealogy, found in the Third Gospel (Luke 3:29), and one of the St. Paul's companions (Colossians 4:11). During the Hellenizing period, Jason, a purely Greek analogon of Jesus, appears to have been adopted by many (1 Maccabees 8:17; 12:16; 14:22; 2 Maccabees 1:7; 2:24; 4:7-26; 5:5-10; Acts 17:5-9; Romans 16:21). The Greek name is connected with verb iasthai, to heal; it is therefore, not surprising that some of the Greek Fathers allied the word Jesus with same root (Eusebius, "Dem. Ev.", IV; cf. Acts 9:34; 10:38). Though about the time of Christ the name Jesus appears to have been fairly common (Josephus, "Ant.", XV, ix, 2; XVII, xiii, 1; XX, ix, 1; "Bel. Jud.", III, ix, 7; IV, iii, 9; VI, v, 5; "Vit.", 22) it was [b]imposed [/b]on our Lord by God's express order (Luke 1:31; Matthew 1:21), to foreshow that the Child was destined to "save his people from their sins." Philo ("De Mutt. Nom.", 21) is therefore, right when he explains Iesous [/i]as meaning [i]soteria kyrion; and Eusebius (Dem., Ev., IV, ad fin.; P.G., XXII, 333) [/i]gives the meaning [i]Theou soterion; while St. Cyril of Jerusalem interprets the word as equivalent to soter (Catechetical Lectures X.13). This last writer, however, appears to agree with Clement of Alexandria in considering the word Iesous [/i]as of Greek origin ([i]The Pedagogue III.12); St. Chrysostom emphasizes again the Hebrew derivation of the word and its meaning soter (Homily 2 on Matthew, No. 2), thus agreeing with the exegesis of the angel speaking to St. Joseph (Matthew 1:21).

mazee:

Greek:Christ and Hebrew:Messiah

Who is Christ? Christ is "the anointed one" - the fulfilment of the promise, proof to the promised Jews that God does not forget his promises

OK. Then what is the anointing? What is the "the anointed one" then? What is Christ?

Again, in better words than I can use:

The word Christ, Christos, the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Messias, means "anointed." According to the Old Law, priests (Exodus 29:29; Leviticus 4:3), kings (1 Samuel 10:1; 24:7), and prophets (Isaiah 61:1) were supposed to be anointed for their respective offices; now, the Christ, or the Messias, combined this threefold dignity in His Person. It is not surprising, therefore, that for centuries the Jews had referred to their expected Deliverer as "the Anointed"; perhaps this designation alludes to Isaias 61:1, and[i] Daniel 9:24-26[/i], or even to Psalms 2:2; 19:7; 44:8. Thus the term Christ or Messias was a title rather than a proper name: "Non proprium nomen est, sed nuncupatio potestatis et regni", says Lactantius (Divine Institutes IV.7). The Evangelists recognize the same truth; excepting Matthew 1:1, 1:18; Mark 1:1; John 1:17; 17:3; 9:22; Mark 9:40; Luke 2:11; 22:2, the word Christ is always preceded by the article.

Only after the Resurrection did the title gradually pass into a proper name, and the expression Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus became only one designation. But at this stage the Greeks and Romans understood little or nothing about the import of the word anointed; to them it did not convey any sacred conception. Hence they substituted Chrestus, or "excellent", for Christus [/i]or "[i]anointed", and thus Chrestians [/i]instead of "[i]Christians." There may be an allusion to this practice in 1 Peter 2:3; hoti chrestos ho kyrios, which is rendered "that the Lord is sweet." Justin Martyr (First Apology 4), Clement of Alexandria (Stromata II.4.18), Tertullian (To the Nations II), and Lactantius (Divine Institutes IV.7), as well as St. Jerome (In Gal., V, 22), are acquainted with the pagan substitution of Chrestes [/i]for [i]Christus, and are careful to explain the new term in a favourable sense. The pagans made little or no effort to learn anything accurate about Christ [/i]and the [i]Christians; Suetonius, for instance, ascribes the expulsion of the Jews from Rome under Claudius to the constant instigation of sedition by Chrestus, whom he conceives as acting in Rome the part of a leader of insurgents.

The use of the definite article before the word Christ [/i]and its gradual development into a proper name show the [i]Christians [/i]identified the bearer with the [i]promised Messias of the Jews. He combined in His person the offices of prophet (John 6:14; Matthew 13:57; Luke 13:33; 24:19) of king (Luke 23:2; Acts 17:7; 1 Corinthians 15:24; Apocalypse 15:3), and of priest (Hebrews 2:17; etc.); he fulfilled all the Messianic predictions in a fuller and a higher sense than had been given them by the teachers of the Synagogue.

The Christ.

mazee:

[center]". . . proof to the promised Jews that God does not forget his promises . . ."
Promised the Jews?
Note: Matthew 15:24 I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
not house of Judah[/center]

Hair-splitting aside, I meant God's promise to Jews (descendants of Abraham) and not to Jews (Judah and the post-remnants of Israel after the Bablyonian captivity).

---

This pretty much sums up the case:

Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Anointed = Christ
Jesus of Nazareth = Jesus

mazee:

[img]http://bks0.books.google.com/books?id=7FUtpV81w_gC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1[/img]
[center]We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything - Thomas A. Edison [/center]

Philip Pullman, like all men, is entitled to his opinion and it cannot be taken away from him until he releases it. As it is said, one cannot argue a man out of a position that he did not argue himself into.

Dulcet7:

Alright that's great.
If you believe God sent Jesus, then I likewise believe that with God nothing is ever latent, dormant or embryonic. Nothing is perchance, all is planned ahead of time; even if titles like "Christ" are not ascribed on time - they were always there.
'Jesus' is not translated or transliterated from / into 'The Christ' in any language, but they are one and the same person.

In better words than I can muster:
Again, in better words than I can use:

The Christ.
Hair-splitting aside, I meant God's promise to Jews (descendants of Abraham) and not to Jews (Judah and the post-remnants of Israel after the Bablyonian captivity).

---

This pretty much sums up the case:

Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Anointed = Christ
Jesus of Nazareth = Jesus

Philip Pullman, like all men, is entitled to his opinion and it cannot be taken away from him until he releases it. As it is said, one cannot argue a man into a position that he did not argue himself into.

Of course I believe, God sent God. God sent Himself!

but you were on your own beyond the above statement.

I lagged behind when you made that flagrant assumption that  ". . . with God nothing is ever latent, dormant or embryonic . . ."

Was death not latent in Eden? Was death not dormant in Eden?

The "title"? Surely it must be more than just a mere title

Of course, the title, it always was ascribed but not recognised when He came to His own nor recognised by those that met Him

It is mutually agreed that Jesus and Christ are the same and one person just like Simon and Peter et al are the same person and one person

Hmm. Jesus? Christ? Those were the questions. Who. What.

Philip Pullman and others like Dan Brown are amusing. God must be laughing His rockers off at their nastiness and small-mindedness

If christians are unable to explain convincely what is & who is Jesus and Christ,

then suppose its OK for the likes of Philip, Dan etc having a field day twisting defining and perverting explaining them

Thanks mazee. I appreciate your submissions; and maybe - at least in the places you hereby disagree - maybe mine are wrong.

However, I said nothing is ever dormant or latent with God (even Eden's events) because I once saw the following verse in the Bible

Isaiah 46:10 (NLT)
Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish.

Hmm. Jesus? Christ? Those were the questions. Who. What.

Who, What = The Messiah, The Anointed One

By the way, I followed the link to Pullman's book and read more than half (10 chapters out of 15) and yet I don't think it can be convincing to any honest reader as fact rather than mere fiction; considering historical (non-Biblical) evidence. I think it's a load of hogwash.

Remain blessed.

Dulcet7:

Thanks mazee. I appreciate your submissions; and maybe - at least in the places you hereby disagree - maybe mine are wrong.

However, I said nothing is ever dormant or latent with God (even Eden's events) because I once saw the following verse in the Bible

Isaiah 46:10 (NLT)
Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish.
Who, What = The Messiah, The Anointed One

By the way, I followed the link to Pullman's book and read more than half (10 chapters out of 15) and yet I don't think it can be convincing to any honest reader as fact rather than mere fiction; considering historical (non-Biblical) evidence. I think it's a load of hogwash.

Remain blessed.

Dulcet7:

Alright that's great.

If you believe God sent Jesus, then I likewise believe that with God nothing is ever latent, dormant or embryonic. Nothing is perchance, all is

Dulcet7 My bad, Of course you are right. I have re-read the submission. Facepalm!

I misread the above quote, I thought you wrote God does not leave things latent, dormant or embryonic

That is why I referenced death in Eden which before was dormant but came alive and active when sin was committed

Of course God is omniscient but does not mean things are not latent, dormant etc at some point or time

Pullman's book is fiction, he is not claiming otherwise. Each to his own

but a lot are spiritually immature and easily fooled to believe every other worthless or alternate pathetic  "gospel"

You sure did give it a go

[center]May you live in interesting times[/center]

mazee:

[center]May you live in interesting times[/center]

No problems, mazee.

[center]May you come to the attention of powerful people.
May you find what you are looking for.[/center]

Dulcet7:

No problems, mazee.

[center]May you come to the attention of powerful people.
May you find what you are looking for.[/center]

Dulcet7 aye Proverbs 18:16 A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men.

Found one and hoping to share using an eureka-led style

[center]Sir you are a giant shoulder high among men[/center]

This, according to Pullman in the book mentioned, is meant to be Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane. Very blasphemous and ridiculous in my honest opinion. It makes Jesus talk like an atheist. In this light, it will indeed be a pity if anyone is gullible enough to absorb the information as true.

http://www.freebooks4u.net/fantasticfiction/2010/174/6662.html

Pullman:
Jesus went across the valley to a garden on the slopes of the Mount of Olives.

'Wait here,' he said. 'Keep watch. Let me know if anyone comes.'

They sat down under an olive tree and wrapped their cloaks around them, because the night was cold. Jesus went apart a little way and knelt down.

'You're not listening,' he whispered. 'I've been speaking to you all my life and all I've heard back is silence. Where are you? Are you out there among the stars? Is that it? Busy making another world, perhaps, because you're sick of this one? You've gone away, haven't you, you've abandoned us.

'You're making a liar out of me, you realise that. I don't want to tell lies. I try to tell the truth. But I tell them you're a loving father watching over them all, and you're not; you're blind as well as deaf, as far as I can tell. You can't see, or you just don't want to look? Which is it?

'No answer. Not interested.

'If you were listening, you'd know what I meant by truth. I'm not one of these logic-choppers, these fastidious philosophers, with their scented Greek rubbish about a pure world of spiritual forms where everything is perfect, and which is the only place where the real truth is, unlike this filthy material world which is corrupt and gross and full of untruth and imperfection, Have you heard them? Stupid question. You're not interested in slander either.

'And slander's what it is; you made this world, and it's lovely, every inch of it. When I think of the things I've loved I find myself choking with happiness, or maybe sorrow, I don't know; and every one of them has been something in this world that you made. If anyone can smell frying fish on an evening by the lake, or feel a cool breeze on a hot day, or see a little animal trying to run around and tumbling over and getting up again, or kiss a pair of soft and willing lips, if anyone can feel those things and still maintain they're nothing but crude imperfect copies of something much better in another world, they are slandering you, Lord, as surely as words mean anything at all. But then they don't think words do mean anything; they're just tokens to play sophisticated games with. Truth is this, and truth is that, and what is truth anyway, and on and on they go, these bloodless phantoms.

'The psalm says, "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God." Well, I understand that fool. You treated him as you're treating me, didn't you? If that makes me a fool, I'm one with all the fools you made. I love that fool, even if you don't. The poor sod whispered to you night after night, and heard nothing in response. Even Job, for all the trouble he had, got an answer from you. But the fool and I might as well be talking into an empty pot, except that even an empty pot makes a sound like the wind, if you hold it over your ear. That's an answer of sorts.

'Is that what you're saying to me? That when I hear the wind, I hear your voice? When I look at the stars I see your writing, or in the bark of a tree, or the ripples on the sand at the edge of the water? Lovely things, yes, all of them, no doubt about that, but why did you make them so hard to read? Who can translate them for us? You conceal yourself in enigmas and riddles. Can I believe that the Lord God would behave like one of those philosophers and say things in order to baffle and confuse? No, I can't believe it. Why do you treat your people like this? The God who made water to be clear and sweet and fresh wouldn't fill it with mud before giving it to his children to drink. So, what's the answer? These things are full of your words, and we just have to persevere till we can read them? Or they're blank and meaningless? Which is it?

'No answer, naturally. Listen to that silence. Not a breath of wind; the little insects scratching away in the grasses; Peter snoring over there under the olives; a dog barking on some farm out behind me in the hills; an owl down in the valley; and the infinite silence under it all. You're not in the sounds, are you. There might be some help in that. I love those little insects. That's a good dog out there; he's trustworthy; he'd die to look after the farm. The owl is beautiful and cares for her young. Even Peter's full of kindness, for all the noise and the bluster. If I thought you were in those sounds, I could love you with all my heart, even if those were the only sounds you made. But you're in the silence. You say nothing.

'God, is there any difference between saying that and saying you're not there at all? I can imagine some philosophical smartarse of a priest in years to come pulling the wool over his poor followers' eyes: "God's great absence is, of course, the very sign of his presence", or some such drivel. The people will hear his words, and think how clever he is to say such things, and they'll try and believe it; and they'll go home puzzled and hungry, because it makes no sense at all. That priest is worse than the fool in the psalm, who at least is an honest man. When the fool prays to you and gets no answer, he decides that God's great absence means he's not bloody well there.
. . .

etc etc

Reprobate mind

[center]Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done[/center]