Python Vs Java - Programming (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Python Vs Java by Fayimora(m): 10:16pm On Jun 26, 2011 |
Lolzz gat ma forum on ma website aswell(launching july 3rd but i still love being on other forums) |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Nobody: 10:38pm On Jun 26, 2011 |
I am happy that other members of this site are considering(or already) creating other forums where we can congregate and learn from one another. However, it is paramount that these forums must either offer something unique and different from NairaLand or that they better the features on NairaLand, which, trivially, should be the case if the difference between NairaLand and any prospective forum is minute. Given my experience, I shall not hold my breath expecting anything innovative, for Nigerians are notoriously known not to be innovative, but are known to be insufferable copycats who shamelessly and unsuccessfully try to replicate the success of some particular individual(in this case, Seun Osewa) or company by creating mirror versions of their flagship products. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by AspWebUK: 11:27pm On Jun 26, 2011 |
@omo_to_dun Given my experience, I shall not hold my breath expecting anything innovative, for Nigerians are notoriously known not to be innovative, but are known to be insufferable copycats who shamelessly and unsuccessfully try to replicate the success of some particular individual or company;We are offering free website hosting to help those who want to develop their programming skills.
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| Re: Python Vs Java by talk2hb1(m): 6:58am On Jun 27, 2011 |
I have done a little of python, pys60 and she is cool and elegant but I see a future of python mostly used for web application and Java used for nearly everything and every where. Java rules her Majesty |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Nobody: 7:20am On Jun 27, 2011 |
talk2hb1:Please, can you kindly show us some proof? Why is it hard for you guys to list these software--written in Java---that are used by everyone. No one writes GUI application with Swing. It is freaking slow! On Windows, professionals use the Native Win32 API to create the GUI and on Linux, they use GTK+ or Qt, but mostly the former. Even Eclipse had to use the SWT since Swing was just too freaking slow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Widget_Toolkit. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by csharpjava(m): 8:00am On Jun 27, 2011 |
@Fayimora Errm doesn't make sense! All they teach you is how to program, analyze, design and not how to develop games. That part is up to you and there are specific courses/modules for that, You just like to miss lead others, is like saying if you want to become a Doctor you can study Pharmacy, Computer Science is meant for someone that wants to become a researcher in computing, yes your friend can get a job @UBISoft but that does not mean he is a games developer for UBISoft, My advice for anyone planning on becoming a games programmer is to take a computer games programming course at a University. No games company will employ someone that read games programming from a book like the kind of advice that are being given on this forum, books are for reference, you learn the real stuff at Uni, book will only teach you how to write the syntax, writing syntax is not programming it's just child's play. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Nobody: 9:36am On Jun 27, 2011 |
csharpjava: I do not mean to brag, but I attend one of the best schools in the world, and books are god. I do not know the kind of books that you are reading, but at Caltech, we survive on books. Have you heard of the Art of Computer Programming Books by the leading Computer Scientist in the world, Turing Award Winner, inventor of Tex, and the father of Algorithm Analysis, Professor Donald Knuth (omo_to_dun raises his hat in veneration). Bill Gates famously said that if you have read all those books that he would give you a job! Do you want to learn how to construct compilers? Then please read the famous [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compilers:_Principles,_Techniques,_and_Tools#Second_edition]Dragon Book[/url]. Interestingly enough, the name of the book is Compilers: Principles, Techniques, and Tools, but it is affectionately called the Dragon Book by its readers just like the seminal and authoritative [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language_%28book%29]C Programming Book[/url] by Kernighan and Ritchie is called K & R. Go to Amazon and read the reviews for these books. The Art of Computer Programming is the most difficult Computer Science there is! Unchallenged! Unmatched! No school can teach you everything. Remember, one of the best, if not the best, game programmer alive, John Carmack, the inventor of the FPS genre dropped out of college after two semesters, and he invented lots of rendering techniques. Most game programmers are self taught. Last quarter, our graphics class was taught by a student who was self-taught. Do you know why? No one in the whole school, not even the professors, had his vast knowledge in the state of the art graphics rendering techniques. I have read so much about folks in the game industry and most of them are self-taught. An education in CS is required, like you pointed out, if your goal is academia. Please, don't confuse teach yourself C++ in 21 days, cookbooks, and tutorials by arbitrary online tutors with tried and tested textbooks. Of course, attending a class is easier than reading these texts. What if you are a graduate and you want to learn something new, do you go back to school? Then what is the point of your education if you can't teach yourself stuff? csharpjava:Wrong! We have representatives from Ubisoft, Activision, EA, and so many other companies who come to our school to recruit every year and they always inform us that anyone of us would be hired in a heartbeat if you have the requisite knowledge. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by csharpjava(m): 10:19am On Jun 27, 2011 |
@omo_to_dun, To become an expert in the field of technology, you need class room lectures, hands on practice in the lab and then books for reference, with all the books read in Nigeria why can't we have our own computers, compiler and programming language, our own home made cars not assembled cars and so on. Hands on research is what gives someone knowledge to be innovative. Reading books alone like we do in Nigeria leads to copycats like you rightly said before. This is a career link http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/Careers/?j-short=careers for Sony and they are not asking for someone that is self taught, if you have not completed your second year at Uni or a graduate they will never invite you for an interview. These companies like Sony have different jobs for most of the computing areas studied at Uni so they can recruit any one at your school to work in the department relevant to their area of study. It will be quicker for them to train a graduate of games programming to develop their games than a graduate of computer science, they would rather put a computer science graduate in their research and development department or quality assurance department, as these departments are relevant the computer science. What if you are a graduate and you want to learn something new, do you go back to school? Then what is the point of your education if you can't teach yourself stuff?There are short courses at Uni for graduates that wants to learn something new. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Nobody: 12:05pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
Like I said, they are reading the wrong books. No one in Nigeria reads those book I just mentioned. These are not just books you skim through. I implore you to have a look at them. You can, *cough*, download them, of course  . I am also glad that you did not address my other points. You need class room lectures to become an expert in the field of technology? Zuckerberg did not learn how to make websites in Harvard? Harvard did not teach Bill Gates programming! Steve Jobs nko? There are millions of game programmers in the world but creativity is what makes a game! That is what Nigerians also lack! Has it ever occurred to you that the best video game designers have no formal education? No PhD can give you creativity. In Nigeria, most students are not connected to the Internet like we are here, they do not readily have access to good textbooks like we do, and most of them don't even have conducive environment to study. I was on Nvidia's website today reading about some shading techniques; I downloaded the source code, read it, also read a white paper attached to it, and guess what, I have learned something new by myself. School can't teach you everything. I thought we were talking about video games, but you posted a link to Career Path at Sony Inc, not Sony Games. Take a look at this from Activision (Scroll Down to See All Listings): http://webmedia.activision.com/ROOT/cms_misc/ATVICareersTaleo/job_listings.html Game Play Engineer Responsibilities · Prototype, iterate, and execute, on the level experience and mechanics. · Design, write, debug and refine game-play systems, features, tools and infrastructure as needed. · Work with content creators, designers, and other engineers to ensure coherence of game vision. · Implement new and enhance existing gameplay systems and features according to the needs of the project. · Policing content creators on frame rate, memory, and asset usage. Requirements · 3+ years programming experience. · Demonstrated proficiency in and knowledge of C/C++, data structures, performance, and multi-threaded programming techniques. · Enjoy working with scripting languages · Contributed extensively to the development of two or more shipped games, PC or console. · Knowledge of common data structures and algorithmic solutions. · Proficient with 3D math including linear algebra (vector math, matrices) · Client (designer) focused · Thorough knowledge of software design practices including modular architecture, event-driven architecture, and software design patterns. · Ability to quickly understand and work with internal and externally developed code. · University-level degree in Computer Science or related field. · A strong passion for video games of many kinds. Recommended · Experience with computer game technologies including: Camera systems, AI programming, physics, 3D programming, animation, collision detection. · Demonstrated ability to write clean, readable, portable, reliable, and optimized code on current-gen consoles. · Contributed extensively to the development of gameplay for at least two shipped console games. Most jobs for video game programmers are always listed like so. However, most other types of job do require a degree, but video games, especially in America, don't. Go to Blizzard, EA, Bungie, Epic, etc and see for yourself. Most Professors don't even know how to make video games. Word! They do research! Caltech, MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Yale etc don't offer courses in game programming; you have to learn it yourself! Thankfully., their course listings are online, if they do, prove me wrong. And no, they don't train you. There are too many people with knowledge for them to hire a rookie. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Fayimora(m): 1:08pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
csharp jut likes disagreeing with me all the time for no reason. Funny u. You don't have to tell me buy what course are you studying and what uni. You don't have to tell me, a pm would be ok too. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Mobinga: 2:05pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
School doesn't teach you everything. Does it even teach anything? |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Fayimora(m): 2:10pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
hahahah c'mmon Mobinga face it. a determined person is school is way better than someone trying to become someone himself. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by candylips(m): 2:11pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
csharpjava: Wrong. the best way to be a great games developer is to start developing games as soon as possible. While the course u take in uni are essential. the most important step is to actually devote time to learning and coding by yourself. It is human nature, we learn best by experimenting. failing, succeding. . not buy cramming syntax and passing an exam |
| Re: Python Vs Java by candylips(m): 2:13pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
Mobinga: school does teach something but the real learning starts when you are out of school. That is why a graduate will always be a lower member of a team compared to someone with 5 yrs experience |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Mobinga: 2:18pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
Fayimora: A determined person = A determined student. if (NormalStudent = determined) { Success; system.exit(0); } -------------------------------------------- if (NormalPerson = determined) { Success; system.exit(0); } ------------------------------------------- I'm entering in September sef |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Mobinga: 2:20pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
candylips:Of-course na. But the dude with 5 years experience would be lower than the graduate in 10 years time. It helps in the long-run. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Fayimora(m): 2:48pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
A determined student has a lot more advantage over an ordinary determined person. A determined person makes good use of every resource he/she can lay hands on, In this case who has more resources?  |
| Re: Python Vs Java by candylips(m): 4:04pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
^^ very subjective |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Fayimora(m): 4:32pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
yeah kinda, its what i think |
| Re: Python Vs Java by netghost: 9:04pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
why are we pulling out hairs over individual opinions, very soon someone here will write a program that bitch_slap people via the internet, if you like go to school if you like dont , the end result is all that matters  |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Nobody: 10:44pm On Jun 27, 2011 |
School is a place designed to give you the tools you need to express yourself. School is a means to an end and not the end itself. For individuals, this means (school) is not necessary. Others, it is compulsory. It all boils down to individual capability, aptitude and temperamemt. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by csharpjava(m): 11:03am On Jun 28, 2011 |
@omo_to_dun Zuckerberg did not learn how to make websites in Harvard? Harvard did not teach Bill Gates programming!You do not know the full history of these guys you've mentioned above. Take Bill Gate for example, him and his friend Paul Allen co founder of Microsoft, were privileged to attend a private school this gave them exposure to computers at a very early age, with this exposure came the vision to create windows, so by the time they were in Uni they could not wait to achieve their vision and that was why they left Uni not that they dropped out. Unless someone has this kind of privilege and a vision these guys you have mentioned had, my advice is for anyone interested in technology to go to Uni and complete it, if they have the opportunity. Requirements Have you asked those with 3+ years programming experience in a proper IT company if they got in without a degree? |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Nobody: 11:48am On Jun 28, 2011 |
csharpjava:On the contrary, I do; don't jump to conclusions. You previously claimed that a University education was needed in order to be fully versed with technology, and now you are making an exception for those who went to private high schools. There is no private high school in America that can give you know the requisite knowledge to be fully adequately versed in Computer Science, none. If there is one, kindly provide a link so that we would know. Now you brought up an interesting fact that these folks were exposed to computers at a very young age, and I have no choice but to agree with you. I am not saying school is useless, after all, I am also in school. But I have seen folks with substantial knowledge who have no degrees. There are tons of them in the open source community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the school you went to. Oh, and by the way, Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs attended public high schools. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by csharpjava(m): 12:36pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
@omo_to_dun In reply to your post above. Let us take a look a Steve Jobs: “Jobs attended Cupertino Junior High School and Homestead High School in Cupertino, California,[23] and frequented after-school lectures at the Hewlett-Packard Company in Palo Alto, California. He was soon hired there and worked with Steve Wozniak as a summer employee.[34] In 1972, Jobs graduated from high school and enrolled in Reed College in Portland, Oregon. Although he dropped out after only one semester,[35] he continued auditing classes at Reed, such as one in calligraphy, while sleeping on the floor in friends' rooms, returning Coke bottles for food money, and getting weekly free meals at the local Hare Krishna temple.[17] Jobs later stated, "If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts."[17]” Source: wikipedia Steve Jobs was working for Hewlett-Packard a computer company while he was still in high school and he also went to college though not for long, note his remark above “If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts” These guys had early exposure to computer technology and they are exceptional cases so you cannot use them as a general example. You also mentioned about open source community, let us look at Linux an open source operating system, it was originally written in 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linus Torvalds is a Software Engineer you don’t become a Software Engineer by reading books alone at home. Do you think that open source communities don’t have those that have been to Uni? For those that just want to learn programming for the fun of it then fine they can just read books alone, but for those that want a career in programming then going to Uni is their best option. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by cshrpjava1: 12:44pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
Removed: Duplicate |
| Re: Python Vs Java by csharpjava(m): 5:31pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
@omo_to_dun There is no private high school in America that can give you know the requisite knowledge to be fully adequately versed in Computer Science, none. If there is one, kindly provide a link so that we would know.You are wrong, here in the UK I know a top secondary school not even private that teach year one HTML, JavaScript, soldering of circuit board etc in ITC. Students in such top schools have already acquired a lot of knowledge in programming, that is why you hear a 13 year old inventing something new in computing, so stop thinking these kids only read about programming in a book. There are millions of game programmers in the world but creativity is what makes a game! That is what Nigerians also lack! Has it ever occurred to you that the best video game designers have no formal education? No PhD can give you creativity.You are wrong again we have creative people in Nigeria, what we lack are people that can pass on the knowledge to turn our creativity into something real. Take my example above year one in secondary school already knows how to write HTML, JavaScript, soldering a circuit board how can kids like that not produce something creative. I was on Nvidia's website today reading about some shading techniques; I downloaded the source code, read it, also read a white paper attached to it, and guess what, I have learned something new by myself. School can't teach you everything.Wrong again, you would not have understood complex programming techniques if you have not already been introduced to it at a top secondary school or at a Uni. Bill Gates and Paul Allen while in secondary school were already using teletype terminal to develop their programming skills on several time-sharing computer systems. I thought we were talking about video games, but you posted a link to Career Path at Sony Inc, not Sony Games.If you want a job as a games programmer with Sony you still have to apply through their career link. Let me ask you this question have you worked in an organisations like NASA, Microsoft, IBM and so on, if you have then you won’t be saying that going to Uni to study computer programming is not necessary. Do you know these organisations gives millions of $ to University Professors for research. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by netghost: 8:22pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
noise noise noise  |
| Re: Python Vs Java by csharpjava(m): 8:39pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
@netghost noise noise noise And then you wonder why your race is behind in technology  |
| Re: Python Vs Java by netghost: 8:43pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
csharpjava: actually, i am wondering why more m.o.r.o.n.s exist in the programming section than any other section |
| Re: Python Vs Java by csharpjava(m): 8:46pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
@netghost actually, i am wondering why more m.o.r.o.n.s exist in the programming section than any other section I won't let you drag me down this route. |
| Re: Python Vs Java by netghost: 8:53pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
csharpjava: ROTFLMAO  it was not directed towards you. but if you feel you are the chief m.o.r.o.n here, then be my guest, provide an answer to the question i asked, tell me something, do you feel you are good in programming or the one with the best answer because your name is csharpjava or is it because you are capable of writing paragraphs of crap, |
| Re: Python Vs Java by Fayimora(m): 11:41pm On Jun 28, 2011 |
Hmmm I might be forced to lock this thread so please lets stop the direct/indirect insults, |
Let's Stop Talking About Password Strength / [Career Post] "What Are My Chances Of Getting A Job As A Web Developer?" / Is It Late To Start Learning Programming @ 28 Years?
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