IranjeIdita:


Naw, only in Ifa to explain a situation.

Osangangan to Obalufon II were of Obatala's section trying to resume their lost position.

The Ogun in the Ooni Ogun's name is a nick name. Not to be confused with Ogun the deity.

yes it is known that Ooni Ogun was on Obatala's side but I brought this up because there are 3 popular historical Oguns - Ogun Onire which I think is same one of Idanre/Ondo area, there is Ogun saki, there is Ooni Ogun. Ogun onire and Ogun saki are said to have migrated from Ife but could all 3 be one and the same person?

IranjeIdita:


Olowu's mother was Oduduwa's first daughter. She left with her son to found Owu.

Lajemison was the father of Olajueyiodiogun (Lajoodogun) who gave birth to Lafogido.

Other sons of Lajoodogun filled the throne until Lafogido.

Osinkola, Ogboru were both sons of Lafogido.

Ife ruling houses broke out of Lafogido and it should just be Lafogido alone but well everyone wanted to stand alone.

you are not making yourself clear. If Lafogido had other brothers fill the throne before him why does the Ooni list have him immediately succeeding Lajoodogun? It doesn't make sense for Lafogido to be the father of Osinkola and Ogboru with those many people between them, even if we say they were other sons and grandsons of Lajamisan or Lajoodogun, why do Ogboru and Osinkola make separate Ruling houses and say for instance Aworokolokin or Ajimuda who aren't sons of Lafogido doesn't

here is a list from Lajamisan to Giesi

LAJAMISAN
LAJOODOGUN
LAFOGIDO
ODIDIMODE ROGBEESIN
AWOROKOLOKIN
EKUN
AJIMUDA
GBOONIJIO
OKANLAJOSIN
ADEGBALU
OSINKOLA
OGBORU
GIESI


the Lafogido house have said Ooni Lumobi was his descendant, that would make Lumobi(22nd Ooni) the confirmed first male descendent of Lafogido to ascend the throne. Nothing about Osinkola being a descendant talk less of son to Lafogido

IranjeIdita:


Lol

Here we go with name dropping.

What Odu?

Why do Yoruba have three standard version of creation? One was credited to OBATALA .It amazes me to see this creation before ODUA'S ARRIVAL in which Obatala created everything without assistance from other forces thus without him got drunk . This in fact earned him the title “obarisa"(kings of orisas) . And version was credited to Odua in which Obatala got drunk and Odua( Adimuela) completed the task of creation when Obatala slept because he got drunk. ....Before these two theories was the original version but not popular... I must emphasise here that the deception in which created problems for Yoruba was the advent of disruption of the concealed information by ORUNMIELA(the great prophet) who had expected the IFA priests to always speak of the truth but many didn't

Are you really deep in the society you mentioned? You must have knowledge on this, what does this Yoruba creation myth means?
In the Odu Okanran Ogunda there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. Why is not well known?

Defend and explain these theories

IranjeIdita:


Lol.

Ife had no human traces in 350BCE? Are you serious right now?

You actually believe your concocted stuff is facts?

PROOF ME WRONG .AT LEAST, YOU CLAIM TO BE USING SCIENTIFIC APPROACH AS WELL.. ISN'T IT TRUE? , THEN ON THE INFORMATION I SENT AS IT REGARD OLDEST HUMAN BEING OUTSIDE AFRICA. IT WAS SIMPLY A TYPO ERROR BECAUSE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE OLDEST HUMAN SKULL OUT OF AFRICA IN COMPARISON TO ACCLAIMED ILE IFE MYTH. I WAS ACTUALLY COMPARING IT WITH ILE IFE.....MY OPINION WAS WELL STATED IN IT

OlaoChi:
you are not making yourself clear. If Lafogido had other brothers fill the throne before him why does the Ooni list have him immediately succeeding Lajoodogun? It doesn't make sense for Lafogido to be the father of Osinkola and Ogboru with those many people between them, even if we say they were other sons and grandsons of Lajamisan or Lajoodogun, why do Ogboru and Osinkola make separate Ruling houses and say for instance Aworokolokin or Ajimuda who aren't sons of Lafogido doesn't

here is a list from Lajamisan to Giesi

LAJAMISAN
LAJOODOGUN
LAFOGIDO
ODIDIMODE ROGBEESIN
AWOROKOLOKIN
EKUN
AJIMUDA
GBOONIJIO
OKANLAJOSIN
ADEGBALU
OSINKOLA
OGBORU
GIESI


the Lafogido house have said Ooni Lumobi was his descendant, that would make Lumobi(22nd Ooni) the confirmed first male descendent of Lafogido to ascend the throne. Nothing about Osinkola being a descendant talk less of son to Lafogido

Lajemisin gave birth to Lajoodogun.

Lajoodogun gave birth to Lafogido.

Lafogido gave birth to (1) Otutu biosun ? (2) Okiti #26.6 (3) Olojo Agbele #30 (4) Adagba #36.4 (5) Wunmọnijẹ #41 (6) Lugbade #26.7 (7) Lumobi #24.2 ( Yeyelueko, mother of Singbunsin Yanningan as opposed to your opinion of Lumobi being his first male descendant.

Lajoodogun is the father of Osinkola and Ogboru.

There was a disconnect between my mind and my fingers when I typed Lafogido as the father of Osinkola & Ogboru.

Everyone in between them were offsprings of Lajoodogun (Lafogido).

Olu317:
Why do Yoruba have three standard version of creation? One was credited to OBATALA .It amazes me to see this creation before ODUA'S ARRIVAL in which Obatala created everything without assistance from other forces thus without him got drunk . This in fact earned him the title “obarisa"(kings of orisas) . And version was credited to Odua in which Obatala got drunk and Odua( Adimuela) completed the task of creation when Obatala slept because he got drunk. ....Before these two theories was the original version but not popular... I must emphasise here that the deception in which created problems for Yoruba was the advent of disruption of the concealed information by ORUNMIELA(the great prophet) who had expected the IFA priests to always speak of the truth but many didn't

Are you really deep in the society you mentioned? You must have knowledge on this, what does this Yoruba creation myth means?
In the Odu Okanran Ogunda there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. Why is not well known?

Defend and explain these theories

'Defend and explain these theories'

Really?

And who are you to set an exam question for me to attend?

There's nothing concealed, you're only structuring and restructuring these things to make it seem like there's a problem where there isn't any.

There are different creation stories in Ifa, some popular than the others.

1. Obatala creating earth

2. Oduduwa creating earth.

3. Obatala creating part.

4. Oduduwa creating part.

5. Orunmila in Okanran Ogunda

6. Oduduwa and Olokun

7. Oramfe and Odudwa

The list is long.

You're not an initiate, so I get it that your understanding and knowledge of Ifa is bland.

You need to stop bothering yourself and focus on Jesus or you drop Jesus and enter Igbodu; the choice is yours.

IranjeIdita:


Lol you may wabt to go further to verify my claims to all these awo, I'll be too glad to oblige you.

To you it is boastful, where I am from it is an open secret. Parents, Children, relatives and friends know who is in what, no biggie. It is not my problem that you are Jesus worshipping.

- Since Ajamaye did not enthrone Ojaja. What then did you mean by I should go to ask how Ayikiti became Ooni? I know you do not know and I'll give you a short quick history lesson. Ojaja was imposed on us by the Ibadan people. His sovereignty derived from Ibadan's military strength.

- You have ignored my many questions & want to engage in grandfather boastful banters. I tried to evade that but since you're reaching, I'll rip you a new one.

* Go to Ife and ask for Ile Olorisa.

* Whie Ooni crowns your king, my own fathers crown the Ooni since inception.

* while your king would prostrate flatly or touch the ground with his forehead before the Ooni, my grandfathers never prostrates nor bow to the Ooni till tomorrow.

* Only my house wears the same 'oshu' as the Ooni in the entire Yoruba land.

* While the Ooni occupies the political head in Ife, my grandfathers occupied/occupy the spiritual head in ife.

Do you still need me to go on?

Due respect to your ancestor but you lacked courtesy. I infer “lack of Courtesy" on you because you really sound boastful. I am the Great grand son of Prince Ajamaiye whose first wife lineage I belong. Owaluusi was Ajamaiye generational patrilineal. Omo Oke....... Alagadogun ( Ooni Lajaodogun) was Luusi patrilineal. Isnt it disrespectful for using negative words on my lineage? It mean s you have insulted Odua. Are you not the one that first used words like Ajamaiye crowned Ojaja 1? isn't that an insult to my lineage? So, don't play innocence. You can't even fathom my age yet you used negative words as if you aren't cultured .I mentioned association because I respect secrecy and the world of Yoruba. And here you were throwing caution to the wind because of self acclaimed membership and thesis with no standard international approval attesting to ILE IFE as the beginning of mankind. Odoi descendants are in the Hill of Eastern Yoruba land and very humble if you come across them. We don't have Oba but my lineage leader and the sub group under my clan. We are princes of Odo ILE IFE. The truth about us is that we can't be identified easily because we are born as OMOLUABIS, who are true children of their homeland. But when it matters we show up . Lastly Learn from a guy like ooni guy that deactivated his account. With your self acclaimed glory, can you die for ILE IFE? We are born to fight and die for ILE IFE. but thank God ILE IFE TI TU IBA TU ISÉ. Emi Omo ile mo ro ye...

Olu317:
Due respect to your ancestor but you lacked courtesy. I infer “lack of Courtesy" on you because you really sound boastful. I am the Great grand son of Prince Ajamaiye whose first wife lineage I belong. Owaluusi was Ajamaiye generational patrilineal. Omo Oke....... Alagadogun ( Ooni Lajaodogun) was Luusi patrilineal. Isnt it disrespectful for using negative words on my lineage. It mean s you have insulted Odua. Are you not the one that first used words like Ajamaiye crowned Ojaja 1? isn't that an insult to my lineage? So, don't play innocence. You can't even fathom my age yet you used negative words as if you aren't culture. I mentioned association because I respect secrecy and the world of Yoruba. And here you were throwing caution to the wind because of self acclaimed membership and thesis with no standard international approval attesting to ILE IFE as the beginning of mankind. Odoi descendants are in the Hill of Eastern Yoruba land. We don't have Oba but my lineage leader and the sub group under my clan. We are princes. The truth about us is that we can't be identified easily because we are born as OMOLUABIS, who are true children of their homeland. But when it matters we show up Lastly. Learn from a guy like ooni guy that deactivated his account. With your self acclaimed glory, can you die for ILE IFE? We are born to fight and die for ILE IFE. but thank God ILE IFE TI TU IBA TU ISÉ. Emi Omo ile mo ro ye...

No need to play blackmail card.

There's no secrecy about membership.

The secrecies are the details of acquiring membership and what is said or done; witnessed/experienced as a result of membership.

If membership was a matter of secrecy we would not wear itagbe in public, we would not shake hands or loudly chant greetings in public, we would not wear ide ifa, we would not wear sese efun. Where I am from & in my family, it is an open thing and regardless who you are with or where you are they would greet you in awo terms. That does not seem like secret to me.

Lajoodogun is an elision of 'Ola ju eyi to di ogun' it is different from 'alagadogun'.

I never said Ife was the beginning of man kind. In fact, I strongly disagree with the literal acceptace of Ife being the 'orirun aye', it holds no water & makes no sense.

Thus, my argument is that desertification of the Sahara must have caused migration down western part of Africa.

At least in Yoruba land there are several towns that existed as back as Ife - this infers there must have been settlements spread across west africa as a result of migration from Sahara. In fact, the 13 hamlets making up Ife were as a result of different migrational waves causing occupants of each hamlets to settle at different location BUT each hamlet was oblivious of the existence of other hamlets until much later. Parakin for example is quite a distance from Iloromu and Iloromu is quite a distance from Iranje Idita etc. Looking at the minutes of driving or hours of walking between these places one could only imaine the thickness of the rain forest separating these people.

Rounding up, the conclusion of my argument is that Ife as a single unit was not in existence but the 13 hamlets were in existence as at the time Israel/Canaan/Mecca were in existence and they all existed as contemporaries and neither influenced nor transferred anything to the other.

OlaoChi:
yes it is known that Ooni Ogun was on Obatala's side but I brought this up because there are 3 popular historical Oguns - Ogun Onire which I think is same one of Idanre/Ondo area, there is Ogun saki, there is Ooni Ogun. Ogun onire and Ogun saki are said to have migrated from Ife but could all 3 be one and the same person?

In Ifa/spiritually: there is Ogun who is Orunmila's friend. The same Ogun that cleared the path for Irunmole's on their way to earth.

In real life there are:

- Ogun Lagin: the first blacksmith in Ife/Yoruba land made money

- Ogun Lakaye: the second black smith in Ife who made war & hunting items. He was the same guy who edited the Ade Are owned by Obatala's people, the same guy who founded the Osogun compound in Ife, the same guy who went to Ire and all around yoruba land where he is fed differently.

sbeezy8:
i dont think yorubas are arabic but maybe the few founders/conquerors spreading in the region where.

yoruba - arabic Some Loan Words


Olohun i.e. God or Deity rendered from Allahu (Ar. إسم الجلال - الله)
Alaafia i.e. Good, Fine Or Health(y) from derivative Al-Aafiah (Ar. العافية)
Baale i.e. husband or spouse derived from Ba'al (Ar. بعل)
Sanma i.e. heaven or sky adopted for Samaa` (Ar. السماء)
Alubarika i.e. blessing used as Al-Barakah (Ar. البركة)
Wakati i.e. hour or time formed from Waqt (Ar. وقت)
Alubosa i.e. onion as Al-Basal (Ar. االبصل)
Adua or Adura i.e. prayer or supplication from Ad-du'a (Ar. الدعاء)
Asiri i.e. Secret or Hidden derivative of As-Sirr (Ar. السرّ)
Meanwhile, among commonly Arabic words used in Yoruba Language are names of the days such as Atalata (Ar. Ath-Thulatha الثلاثاء) for Tuesday, Alaruba (Ar. Al-Arbi'a الأربعاء) for Wednesday, Alamisi (Ar. Al-Khamis الخميس) for Thursday, and Jimoh (Ar. Al-Jum'ah الجمعة) for Friday. By far Ojo Jimoh is the most favourably used. It's usually preferred to Yoruba unpleasant word for Friday Eti, which means Failure, Laziness or Abandonment

Sorry, the Eti in this case does not connote the meanings you adduced but literally means "Wahala" meaning trouble or confusion.

IranjeIdita:


No need to play blackmail card.

There's no secrecy about membership.

The secrecies are the details of acquiring membership and what is said or done; witnessed/experienced as a result of membership.

If membership was a matter of secrecy we would not wear itagbe in public, we would not shake hands or loudly chant greetings in public, we would not wear ide ifa, we would not wear sese efun. Where I am from & in my family, it is an open thing and regardless who you are with or where you are they would greet you in awo terms. That does not seem like secret to me.

Lajoodogun is an elision of 'Ola ju eyi to di ogun' it is different from 'alagadogun'.

I never said Ife was the beginning of man kind. In fact, I strongly disagree with the literal acceptace of Ife being the 'orirun aye', it holds no water & makes no sense.

Thus, my argument is that desertification of the Sahara must have caused migration down western part of Africa.

At least in Yoruba land there are several towns that existed as back as Ife - this infers there must have been settlements spread across west africa as a result of migration from Sahara. In fact, the 13 hamlets making up Ife were as a result of different migrational waves causing occupants of each hamlets to settle at different location BUT each hamlet was oblivious of the existence of other hamlets until much later. Parakin for example is quite a distance from Iloromu and Iloromu is quite a distance from Iranje Idita etc. Looking at the minutes of driving or hours of walking between these places one could only imaine the thickness of the rain forest separating these people.

Rounding up, the conclusion of my argument is that Ife as a single unit was not in existence but the 13 hamlets were in existence as at the time Israel/Canaan/Mecca were in existence and they all existed as contemporaries and neither influenced nor transferred anything to the other.

still boils down that migration existed..... then your interpretation is quite funny. So, you have become OYO now to translate according to your perceived philology.... So, you now use the late Bishop Samuel Ajayi crowther accent which was the one that changed a whole lot Yoruba phonetic being patterned after OYO.... New generation and fable...ojaja/ojéjé/ogénè/oghéné/ogéhé. Kindly identify the ancient one. You make me laugh.... Go and ask very well to know the translation....In the ancient TIME J is interchange with G, Ó is interchange to A... I is interchange with Ù, (IWA vs UWA), (Èri vs Ori) etc I need even trash this out with you.... It is not worth it.....go to Ekiti /kabba axis etc and learn the archaic Yoruba and not your fake translation........

KAARE O'BA MI VS KARE OBA......... Which one is archaic? This is the same way they created a formula for Obatala and Odua as crediting them with creating human beings while they relegated the real IFA verse that specifically talked about Eledumare as the creator of all things.....


Who is referred to as Omo Oke ?
WHO IS REFERRED AS OGUN?


LAJ(G)ODO- OGUN vs LAG(J)ADA -OGUN
OMO OKE vs OMO OKE RI LE
LUUSI. vs. OLUSI
AKI. vs. AKIN
OBINRIN vs. OBUNRIN
OKUNRIN. vs OKINRIN


MIGRATION CAUSED SLIGHT CHANGES IN PRONUNCIATION DESPITE OYO'S PATTERNED STANDARDIZE LANGUAGE METHOD WHICH IS INDEED NOT BAD..

Oriki OONI OGUNWUSI (part of oriki Ooni)


Oke leyin Moore
O taye so bi igba
Omo Laade Omo Ibi ro Omo ajongbodo
Omo osun meru ti kun
Omo ibi ola ti n wa
Omo Ayikiti Ogun
tiri Ogun
Mo rejana bi oni roko aburo etiri
Omo Degbin
Mo nlo nre igbode Omo Luusi
Omo arugbo-ile igbode abika lorun
Omo o fose foso, komo Olominrin feeru fo
(Omo oke )mo ri tikun aya sile




You need not answer it because you are far away from the family but for people who are reading and interested in it will see it as it stand ... ALL OONI OGUN DESCENDANTS BEAR PART OF HIS NAME..
ENJOY YOURSELF

Olu317:


still boils down that migration existed..... then your interpretation is quite funny. So, you have become OYO now to translate according to your perceived philology.... So, you now use the late Bishop Samuel Ajayi crowther accent which was the one that changed a whole lot Yoruba phonetic being patterned after OYO.... New generation and fable...ojaja/ojéjé/ogénè/oghéné/ogéhé. Kindly identify the ancient one. You make me laugh.... Go and ask very well to know the translation....In the ancient TIME J is interchange with G, Ó is interchange to A... I is interchange with Ù, (IWA vs UWA), (Èri vs Ori) etc I need even trash this out with you.... It is not worth it.....go to Ekiti /kabba axis etc and learn the archaic Yoruba and not your fake translation........

KAARE O'BA MI VS KARE OBA......... Which one is archaic? This is the same way they created a formula for Obatala and Odua as crediting them with creating human beings while they relegated the real IFA verse that specifically talked about Eledumare as the creator of all things.....


Who is referred to as Omo Oke ?
WHO IS REFERRED AS OGUN?


LAJ(G)ODO- OGUN vs LAG(J)ADA -OGUN
OMO OKE vs OMO OKE RI LE
LUUSI. vs. OLUSI
AKI. vs. AKIN
OBINRIN vs. OBUNRIN
OKUNRIN. vs OKINRIN


MIGRATION CAUSED SLIGHT CHANGES IN PRONUNCIATION DESPITE OYO'S PATTERNED STANDARDIZE LANGUAGE METHOD WHICH IS INDEED NOT BAD..

Oriki OONI OGUNWUSI (part of oriki Ooni)


Oke leyin Moore
O taye so bi igba
Omo Laade Omo Ibi ro Omo ajongbodo
Omo osun meru ti kun
Omo ibi ola ti n wa
Omo Ayikiti Ogun
tiri Ogun
Mo rejana bi oni roko aburo etiri
Omo Degbin
Mo nlo nre igbode Omo Luusi
Omo arugbo-ile igbode abika lorun
Omo o fose foso, komo Olominrin feeru fo
(Omo oke )mo ri tikun aya sile




You need not answer it because you are far away from the family but for people who are reading and interested in it will see it as it stand ... ALL OONI OGUN DESCENDANTS BEAR PART OF HIS NAME..
ENJOY YOURSELF

LOL

All of this isn't necessary.

I speak a bit of and understand Ife, my language very much.

Alagadogun is not the same as Lajoodogun, QED.

'Mo nlo re igbo de Omo Luusi' - I am going into the forest/bushes to await the child of Luusi - represents the war fought with Modakeke and Luusi's role, simple.

How can Owalusi be a son of Lajoodogun and left Ife way before Giesi a grandson of Ogboru was born then come to identify under Giesi. You see the inconsistency in your claim?

Owalusi was just an Ife migrant who played the role of a mercenary during the wars, it does not earn you any attachment to any of the royal houses in Ife.

OlaoChi:


it is due to the absence of written history in the culture, although Yorubas had a secrete writing system under the Olurogbo cult still being studied, I don't think it was used for recording historical events.

I didnt know the Akan also prostrate, Also prostration has been performed by the Polynesian people to honour dying Chiefs and Priests, the Chinese have the Kowtow tradition quite similar to Yoruba Idobale. It would be rather silly for any of us to begin to give Chinese origin for Yorubas based on this alone. the consequence of this act in my opinion is the understanding of the human mind, certain acts performed across cultures is rather a pointer to how the human mind relates with common aspects of life than a mutual origin. these acts could have developed independently, one didnt have to have ancestry in the other, or share a common origin. Take for instance the idea of tattooing for various purposes around the world, does this mean Yoruba and Samoans or Indians or Japanese share a common origin. I should also mention that the Hebrews did not have tattoos

Kowtow is not prostration, neither is it similar to prostration.

Tatooing is cosmetic, does not have spiritual value and should not be introduced.

IranjeIdita:

If your only concern is the mythical aspect in Ifa then you should be bothering about Oduduwa and his 5 toed cock creating earth not about a human moving between canaan and Ife.

My interest is actually on the congruence of Yoruba culture with AfroAsia. If the acclaimed progenitor of Yoruba is Oduduwa and said to be foreigner, then where are his foreign roots?

Speaking of mythical Oduduwa, in the Myths of Ife, narrated by Araba of Ife, the highest ranking and titular head of Ifa priests, and in presence of Ooni to John Wyndham, mention is made of several landscapes that cannot even be found anywhere in the latitudinal belt that Ife is geographically located in.

Like awos fabricating Oduduwas origin, were these narrations by the Araba fabrications as well?

Lol this is funny.

I don't even have the strength to start typing the historical etymologies of those Yoruba words and how they are different from the canaan stuff as well as the crown issue.

May God give you strength, and I hope you find the time to share knowledge and enlightenement about these issues. Etymologies, root words and sounds in particular are very important to me.

Word is formed but sound is emanated and carries with it a signature. I am drawn to the esoteric energy in sound and its octaves.

Oduduwa as a foreigner was a fabrication spread by awos in Ife to keep his actual location in mystery and prevent people from going there.

Ife awos know where he is from there's really no need to go on a brain racking spree that will fall apart in the face of proper scrutiny or say if these awos decide to come out full scale with the secret details that has had you and others bothering your innocent brains over a non existent connection.

There are many principals in the aboriginal Ife, Oduduwa, Obatala, Ogun, and so on.

The placement of the others is not hidden, why is Oduduwa the only one veiled behind a secrecy?

What is the need to cover his origin, why can't people know and visit?

I am surprised you would admit awos are in a conspiracy to mislead on origin of Oduduwa.
I hope this was a mis-speak.

IranjeIdita:
I am done here but quickly:
In the frint page, the statements credited to the Hausa people was in reference to Oyo people not Ife people.

Here:


The post on the front page further separated Oyo from Ife.

Here:



Apparently, the Hausa folks who said these things regarded Oyo people ONLY as Yoruba who migrated from middle east. They treated Oyo to be different from Ife, a country they were far away from.

I hope the Canaan, Egypt, Israel, Mecca theory will now focus on Oyo as the Hausa king only spoke of Oyo.

In the era of Imperial Africa the seat of power is always the point of reference for a people.

When they speak of Egyptians, no mention is made of Nubia, a Kingdom in the Egyptian Empire.

When they speak of Ashanti no mention is made of Adagbe. Daura was the spiritual foothold of Hausa States but Kano was reference point.

So speaking of Oyo as Yoruba was in line with protocol of the then State diplomats.

Moreover, the explorers of Africa either came from desert region or from the sea. The capital of Yoruba was farther away from either routes. They heard about Yoruba but never wentwentto visit.

What brought about Muhammadu Bello's narration was appeal to Livingstone to intervene and stop Oyo from selling muslim slaves to Christians. If Ife was the center of Imperial power they would equally have referenced it with same story of Canaan and Nimrod and call it Yoruba.

If you notice Muhammadu Bello went on to say the Yoruba country is beautiful, their land has hills and trees and gardens and the ships of Christians come to their coast. A visual map of the entire landmass from Oyo Ile, which started at the bank of Niger, which was Northpoint of Ife, down to the coast.

This discussion has had good amount of biases, let us not sink deeper with more biases in thisbstruggle to score points.

We are interested in enlightning share, not digs to win argument and then destroy a legacy that we all are cherishly connected to.

MetaPhysical:


My interest is actually on the congruence of Yoruba culture with AfroAsia. If the acclaimed progenitor of Yoruba is Oduduwa and said to be foreigner, then where are his foreign roots?

..........

Speaking of mythical Oduduwa, in the Myths of Ife, narrated by Araba of Ife, the highest ranking and titular head of Ifa priests, and in presence of Ooni to John Wyndham, mention is made of several landscapes that cannot even be found anywhere in the latitudinal belt that Ife is geographically located in.

Please share Araba's narratives.

The places you can find proper narratives on Oduduwa in Ife apart from Idio are from Iddo, Obameri's compound, Gbonkaa's compound, Baba Sigidi's compound at Oke Ijan to mention a few.

Orunmila is not an awo of Oduduwa, he was a chief diviner and an abitrator during the civil war. Oduduwa met him on ground.

Like awos fabricating Oduduwas origin, were these narrations by the Araba fabrications as well? May God give you strength, and I hope you find the time to share knowledge and enlightenement about these issues. Etymologies, root words and sounds in particular are very important to me.

Sir, are you a linguist then?

Word is formed but sound is emanated and carries with it a signature. I am drawn to the esoteric energy in sound and its octaves.

Esoteric energy in sound?

There are many principals in the aboriginal Ife, Oduduwa, Obatala, Ogun, and so on.

The placement of the others is not hidden, why is Oduduwa the only one veiled behind a secrecy?

What is the need to cover his origin, why can't people know and visit?

Oh, you feel confident you know the placements of the other principals asides that of Oduduwa? Do you?

The only reason you feel this way is because some of the other deities are worshipped outside Ife with large followership.

Oduduwa and most of the deities who were his followers have very small followership in Ife and they are not worshipped outside Ife.

I am surprised you would admit awos are in a conspiracy to mislead on origin of Oduduwa.
I hope this was a mis-speak.

It is not a mis-speak, it is actually the truth, sadly.

Even as a son of Idita, I know how things are kept or obfuscated to people who are not omo-ile and how things are purposely obfuscated to the obinrin ile (females from the compound). Nobody knew or knows much about Obatala in or outside Ife because like most deities in Ife, it is strictly a family thing and it was only in 1950s that outsiders were getting initiated and inducted into lesser chieftaincy positions where much won't be revealed to them - the aworo group (oduduwa, obameri, gbonkaa etc) are still very much stuck with initiating/inducting family members only plus their level of charm & esoteric stuff is too harsh and rough that it scares their own compound members not to mention outsiders.

Why Oduduwa's settlement is hidden to prevent visits is because it is the starting point of coronation for ooni elects and it is only visited by initiates during that period only. This is the norm for most deities in Ife - no one goes to Obatala's palace at Iranje Oko/Idita except alato is to be fed or there's a message requiring we go. It is off in the forests and well, due to the greedy sale of lands by relatives houses are beginning to sprout around this place.

IranjeIdita:



LOL

All of this isn't necessary.

I speak a bit of and understand Ife, my language very much.

Alagadogun is not the same as Lajoodogun, QED.

'Mo nlo re igbo de Omo Luusi' - I am going into the forest/bushes to await the child of Luusi - represents the war fought with Modakeke and Luusi's role, simple.

How can Owalusi be a son of Lajoodogun and left Ife way before Giesi a grandson of Ogboru was born then come to identify under Giesi. You see the inconsistency in your claim?

Owalusi was just an Ife migrant who played the role of a mercenary during the wars, it does not earn you any attachment to any of the royal houses in Ife.

When was GEESI BORN? YET OONI ORIKI PRECEDED GIESI BUT OGUN'S., So KINGMAKER enjoy it. Bitter truth hurts like A WIELDED HAMMER ..........DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE YEAR LAJODO-OGUN REIGN?



HOW MANY NON ROYAL MIGRANTS LEFT ILE IFE WITH APPAREL SUCH AS LUSI ?

LUSI APPARELS STILL EXISTING TILL FOREVER

TWO traditional beaded crowns

A wooden stool with a carved image (status) of tiger and crown resting on a suspended royal swords

A tiger skin

A royal staff of office made of brass with a status of a crown on top

War and hunting paraphernalia

beads

white horse tails

royal calabashes


YOU WILL BE IN SERVICE FOR MY LINEAGE FOREVER.... BITTER TRUTH

IranjeIdita:



LOL

All of this isn't necessary.

I speak a bit of and understand Ife, my language very much.

Alagadogun is not the same as Lajoodogun, QED.

'Mo nlo re igbo de Omo Luusi' - I am going into the forest/bushes to await the child of Luusi - represents the war fought with Modakeke and Luusi's role, simple.

How can Owalusi be a son of Lajoodogun and left Ife way before Giesi a grandson of Ogboru was born then come to identify under Giesi. You see the inconsistency in your claim?

Owalusi was just an Ife migrant who played the role of a mercenary during the wars, it does not earn you any attachment to any of the royal houses in Ife.

LAUGHING AT YOUR INCONSISTENCY.... LUUSI THAT DIED OVER ONE FIFTY YEARS BEFORE THE WAR(150YEARS+) OF MODAKEKE /IBADAN WAR OF KIRIJI....THE PRAISE WAS REFERENCING THE CONNECTION TO LUUSI'S GREAT GRANDSON (AJAMAIYE) TO LUUSI...... BETTER GO AND STUDY

YOUR INCONSISTENCY AND OF YOUR LIKE MINDS IS THE REASONS YORUBA DO HAVE PROBLEMS BECAUSE LIES TELLING. AFTER ALL YOUR FAKE ARTIFACTS CLAIMS FROM 350BC WHICH DOESN'T EXIST AT ALL BUT TO CHURN OUT PSEUDO INFORMATION TO THE TEEMING READERS. HOWEVER I DO HAVE INFORMATION FOR YOU AND YOUR LIKES.... ILE IFE ART IS SLIGHTLY OVER SEVEN HUNDRED (700 YEARS ). GIVE US YOUR THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY BC (350BC))INFO....

OlaoChi:
Observation of a natural phenomena, that is not the point of interest for African Historians. Observation of cultural practices should be, so what observations have you made? MetaPhysical brought Prostration

Can you tell me the meaning of 'believe-theory' in your research methodology? How do you employ its principles to make historical findings? It does not have any intellectual bearing nor does it make grammatical sense.

That's why I called you a fool. Most of all because all you do is whining and query to make consistent wimpy posts. I've demonstrated to you how to advance a scientific approach to a subject, you came back to ask me about metaphysical.

Learn from those more intelligent than you, stop being clever.

and so far, what have you found to prove you are not a fool? You can stoop whatever you like, wisdom is greater than cleverness.

what is this man saying? who talked about charles darwin here? what brought about evolution? if you have qualms with biology that is your problem. You obviously cannot tell that there is a difference between Biology and History. you called me a fool, i do not need to stoop to your low level by trading insults with someone who is ignorant and emotional about being TAUGHT a new thing. instead of mentioning metaphysic you should have come straight to do your sly attacks like a man


everything is wrong when you propagate ideas to be facts and insult those who question you and ask for evidence. if you have any dignity you would be ashamed of yourself. I will say it again, you are an Inventor of History and that makes you fake because history is not to be invented, it is not a field of ideas but findings.

I've answered you. All that a fool does is allegation after allegation to discourage the curiousity of a brilliant hand. You will always cry foul, you will never reveal any truth. Complaints is your historical resources.

Olu317:
When was GEESI BORN? YET OONI ORIKI PRECEDED GIESI BUT OGUN'S., So KINGMAKER enjoy it. Bitter truth hurts like A WIELDED HAMMER ..........DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE YEAR LAJODO-OGUN REIGN?



HOW MANY NON ROYAL MIGRANTS LEFT ILE IFE WITH APPAREL SUCH AS LUSI ?

LUSI APPARELS STILL EXISTING TILL FOREVER

TWO traditional beaded crowns

A wooden stool with a carved image (status) of tiger and crown resting on a suspended royal swords

A tiger skin

A royal staff of office made of brass with a status of a crown on top

War and hunting paraphernalia

beads

white horse tails

royal calabashes

You claimed Owalusi was a son of Lajoodogun. Unfortunately for you, Owalusi let Ife around 15th century.

Here: Olusin is the leader of the Sifa group of community, (i.e. Owalusin, Agba, Ikanmu, Iboje, Owaase and Idofin).25 The ancestor of Olusin left Ile-Ife at about 1412 AD.26 History has it that on their first arrival they came to a place near Imesi and later Emure Ekiti where they settled for about 301 years that is between 1418 and 1719 AD. By 1637, Olusin died at the age of 251 years and he was deified as Oba Owa in 1640. Thus, he became an ancestral spirit being worshipped during the annual Ore-Oba (Ore-Olusin) festival up till date, the festival in which the Olusin must appear kingly in his regalia in line with the native law and custom.27 In 1642, a grandson of Olusin named Orimo was traditionally coronated as the Olusin after the decision of Ifa oracle was determined. He reigned between 1642 and 1702 AD, thus known today as the first Olusin in title.

http://eujournal.org/files/journals/1/articles/452/submission/review/452-1373-1-RV.pdf

Ife Odan was founded around 15th century by Ogboru, Giesi's grandfather. Owaluusi, according to the research paper up there left 15th century as well.

This was a period when ruling houses had not been standardized (four ruling houses became cut out in the 19th century).

How did a group or person who left before ruling houses were sorted suddenly figure out they/he belonged to a particular ruling house prior to leaving?

Keep in mind that Ogunwusi is from Ojaja, a sub section of Agbedegbede which a sub section of Giesi. How come Owaluusi identifies only with Ojaja line rather than Giesi as a whole?

All of these points to the war efforts of Ajamaye under Ojaja during Ife Modakeke wars 1878 which summed up to Ife's defeat and exile to Isoya. If not, Owaluusi would share the same Oriki with the Ooni or at least the general Oriki of the Giesi lines and not just a cameo appearance in a single line reference talking about waiting in the forest.

YOU WILL BE IN SERVICE FOR MY LINEAGE FOREVER.... BITTER TRUTH

The Supreme Court confirmation of the Olubaka paramountcy on the 18th of December 1998 attempted to put to rest the 94 years-old chieftaincy tussle. Prior to the time, attempt by the Olubaka to put an end to the Asin‟s crown in his cross appeal at the Court of Appeal, Benin also failed. The Court and the Ondo State White Paper on Asin Chieftaincy posit that Asin should remain the Asin of Okaodo quarters in Iwaro-Oka with the liberty to wear his crown provided he recognized the superiority of the Olubaka, on the Olusin chieftaincy on the other hand, the State Government in 1983 in relying on the Justice Olayiwola Chieftaincy Review Commission Report on the Olusin Chieftaincy also posits that the Olusin should remain the Olusin of Owalusin and during his regency as the Olusin of Oka, though the Commission recognized his crowns as that of the Oba yet, it submitted that the Olusin is a chief:
Apart from the beaded crowns, none of the items can seriously be accepted as been attached to the institution of an Oba as paraphernalia of office...

http://eujournal.org/files/journals/1/articles/452/submission/review/452-1373-1-RV.pdf

Dude, take a seat. Your throne & crown are that of a chief under Olubaka

According to Nigerian Government Gazette of 28th February, 1903 in relation to the meeting of Central Native council presided over by the Colonial Governor, Sir William MacGregor Owaluusi/Olusi throne is not in the list of of those with original crowns nor part of those Ooni issued crowns to.

Furthetmore, your town throne did not even make it into the list of original crowns based on Royal list of 1931.

With all these noises you have been making wey you nor let us rest so your throne is that of an ordinary chief under mere Olubaka and an unrecognized one among Yoruba Obas for that matter?

Now, not to put myself out there too much:

- on the one hand I'm from Iranje Ideta, a town with a King who is the spiritual king in Ife, next to Ooni. The only Oba who never prostrates to Ooni & wears thr same Oshu as the Ooni.

- on the one hand I'm from Jaojo line of Orunto. The family compound that produces Obalufe, the Ooni Ode. Who is much more royal than your king

- on the one hand, I have blood ties to Okiti Royal compound at Igbodo, Ife. A sub-family of Lafogido Royal compound.

- on the one hand I have blood ties to Agbedegbede Royal compound at Okerewe under Giesi Royal house.

What were you saying about service to your lineage again?

The son of a chief claiming prince

MetaPhysical:


Kowtow is not prostration, neither is it similar to prostration.

Tatooing is cosmetic, does not have spiritual value and should not be introduced.

no need to argue

so sir, does this mean yoruba and chinese have a common origin or spiritual connection?
i laugh at the bold. and you claim to be a yoruba?

2prexios:


Can you tell me the meaning of 'believe-theory' in your research methodology? How do you employ its principles to make historical findings? It does not have any intellectual bearing nor does it make grammatical sense.

That's why I called you a fool. Most of all because all you do is whining and query to make consistent wimpy posts. I've demonstrated to you how to advance a scientific approach to a subject, you came back to ask me about metaphysical.

Learn from those more intelligent than you, stop being clever.

and so far, what have you found to prove you are not a fool? You can stoop whatever you like, wisdom is greater than cleverness.



I've answered you. All that a fool does is allegation after allegation to discourage the curiousity of a brilliant hand. You will always cry foul, you will never reveal any truth. Complaints is your historical resources.

A so called fool that is actually far more intelligent than a history inventor keep up your emotional outbursts
you are no intellectual, an intellectual knows how to defend his position with facts

IranjeIdita:


You claimed Owalusi was a son of Lajoodogun. Unfortunately for you, Owalusi let Ife around 15th century.

Here: Olusin is the leader of the Sifa group of community, (i.e. Owalusin, Agba, Ikanmu, Iboje, Owaase and Idofin).25 The ancestor of Olusin left Ile-Ife at about 1412 AD.26 History has it that on their first arrival they came to a place near Imesi and later Emure Ekiti where they settled for about 301 years that is between 1418 and 1719 AD. By 1637, Olusin died at the age of 251 years and he was deified as Oba Owa in 1640. Thus, he became an ancestral spirit being worshipped during the annual Ore-Oba (Ore-Olusin) festival up till date, the festival in which the Olusin must appear kingly in his regalia in line with the native law and custom.27 In 1642, a grandson of Olusin named Orimo was traditionally coronated as the Olusin after the decision of Ifa oracle was determined. He reigned between 1642 and 1702 AD, thus known today as the first Olusin in title.

http://eujournal.org/files/journals/1/articles/452/submission/review/452-1373-1-RV.pdf

Ife Odan was founded around 15th century by Ogboru, Giesi's grandfather. Owaluusi, according to the research paper up there left 15th century as well.

This was a period when ruling houses had not been standardized (four ruling houses became cut out in the 19th century).

How did a group or person who left before ruling houses were sorted suddenly figure out they/he belonged to a particular ruling house prior to leaving?

Keep in mind that Ogunwusi is from Ojaja, a sub section of Agbedegbede which a sub section of Giesi. How come Owaluusi identifies only with Ojaja line rather than Giesi as a whole?

All of these points to the war efforts of Ajamaye under Ojaja during Ife Modakeke wars 1878 which summed up to Ife's defeat and exile to Isoya. If not, Owaluusi would share the same Oriki with the Ooni or at least the general Oriki of the Giesi lines and not just a cameo appearance in a single line reference talking about waiting in the forest.




The Supreme Court confirmation of the Olubaka paramountcy on the 18th of December 1998 attempted to put to rest the 94 years-old chieftaincy tussle. Prior to the time, attempt by the Olubaka to put an end to the Asin‟s crown in his cross appeal at the Court of Appeal, Benin also failed. The Court and the Ondo State White Paper on Asin Chieftaincy posit that Asin should remain the Asin of Okaodo quarters in Iwaro-Oka with the liberty to wear his crown provided he recognized the superiority of the Olubaka, on the Olusin chieftaincy on the other hand, the State Government in 1983 in relying on the Justice Olayiwola Chieftaincy Review Commission Report on the Olusin Chieftaincy also posits that the Olusin should remain the Olusin of Owalusin and during his regency as the Olusin of Oka, though the Commission recognized his crowns as that of the Oba yet, it submitted that the Olusin is a chief:
Apart from the beaded crowns, none of the items can seriously be accepted as been attached to the institution of an Oba as paraphernalia of office...

http://eujournal.org/files/journals/1/articles/452/submission/review/452-1373-1-RV.pdf

Dude, take a seat. Your throne & crown are that of a chief under Olubaka

According to Nigerian Government Gazette of 28th February, 1903 in relation to the meeting of Central Native council presided over by the Colonial Governor, Sir William MacGregor Owaluusi/Olusi throne is not in the list of of those with original crowns nor part of those Ooni issued crowns to.

Furthetmore, your town throne did not even make it into the list of original crowns based on Royal list of 1931.

With all these noises you have been making wey you nor let us rest so your throne is that of an ordinary chief under mere Olubaka and an unrecognized one among Yoruba Obas for that matter?

Now, not to put myself out there too much:

- on the one hand I'm from Iranje Ideta, a town with a King who is the spiritual king in Ife, next to Ooni. The only Oba who never prostrates to Ooni & wears thr same Oshu as the Ooni.

- on the one hand I'm from Jaojo line of Orunto. The family compound that produces Obalufe, the Ooni Ode. Who is much more royal than your king

- on the one hand, I have blood ties to Okiti Royal compound at Igbodo, Ife. A sub-family of Lafogido Royal compound.

- on the one hand I have blood ties to Agbedegbede Royal compound at Okerewe under Giesi Royal house.

What were you saying about service to your lineage again?

The son of a chief claiming prince

You lied again....Your information isn't correct BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LEAVE 15TH CENTURY ..... laughing laugh laughing at you . WHICH AMONG ALL OF THE APPAREL DO WANT TO EQUATE WITH A COMMON CHIEF'S SON? WHICH ORDINARY FAMILY WEARS TWO BEADED CROWN IN THE ANCIENT TIME? SWORD WITH INSCRIPTIONS OF ROYALTY? ALL STILL INTACT AS HE WAS GIVEN.... WHICH FAMILY WEAR SUCH APART KINGLY OF ODUA OR HIS ROYAL BLOOD SONS? HOW COME ODO CHILDREN ARE EXISTING IN EASTERN YORUBA? ...DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE ORIKI OF LUUSI OMO OKE LAGA DA OGUN at all? HIS OGUN IS DIFFERENT . HIS SURNAME WAS OGUN. PART OF HIS NAME IF YOU DON'T KNOW. OONI ADEYEYE EVEN HAVE (OGUN)W (USI ) . IS USI AND OGUN NOT AN ODUA LINEAGE'S NAME? YOU CLAIMED ALL THESE LINK THIS AND THAT OF YOUR ANCESTOR.
DO YOU EVEN HAVE IDEA HOW OLD THE SWORD AND APPARELS ARE? YOU ARE A BABY. YOU DON'T KNOW YORUBA HISTORY. ONLY KING LINEAGE(PRINCES) BORE NAME AS OLU IN THE ANCIENT TIME. ONLY THAT IS ENOUGH . AJAMAYE( THE NAME “AJA"BELONG TO KINGS LINEAGE .). ODUA WAS THE FIRST TO BEAR IT. DON'T EVEN COME NEAR ON MY FAMILY HISTORY. DO YOU THINK I AM NOT WELL GROUNDED?
MENTION ANY YORUBA LAND THAT USES ----KAARE O'BA MI APART FROM OONI AND HIS PATRILINEAL ? MENTION ANY? OMO ODO NI KAN LO LÈ LO...

FABUNMI WAS THE ORIGINAL LEADER OF EKITI PARAPO.... OKE MEESI IS THE LAND OF FABUNMI, OWA LUUSI'S SONS OWNS PART OF THAT LAND BUT THROWN AWAY. DO YOU KNOW WHY? HIS SWORD , TWO BEADED CROWNS AND BEADS, ETC WERE HIS STAFF OF AUTHORITY. OGEDENGBE AGBOGUNBORO WAS THE LEADER OF EKITI PARAPO WHOM YOU CAN CALL MERCENARY BECAUSE HE WAS BEGGED TO FIGHT FOR THEM AND A LOT OF PROMISES WOULD HAD BEEN MADE AND ILE IFE JOINED LATER... SO, HOW COME AJAMAIYE DIDN'T APPEAR ON THE SIDE OF EKITI PARAPO? YOU SEE, HE WASN'T A MERCENARY BECAUSE HE APPEARED ONLY FOR HIS FATHER'S THRONE.
KINDLY FIND HIS ORIKI AND PROOF US WRONG.

MANY FAMILIES FOUGHT FOR ILE IFE, HOW COME HE WAS RECOGNISED? WAS THE STRONGEST? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, AJAMAIYE WAS NEVER THE STRONGEST BUT FAMILY TIES OF SAME ORIKI. LITTLE DO YOU EVEN KNOW THAT IT HAS BEEN A PATTERN IN OUR FAMILY TO ALWAYS MERGED TOGETHER FOR EASY COORDINATION. SO, IN YOUR WILDEST DREAM, ALL THE DESCENDANTS OF ODO WHO AREN'T PART OF THE RULING HOUSES AREN'T PRINCES AND PRINCESSES AGAIN? YOU ARE A FUNNY HUMAN BEING.....I AM DAMN SERIOUS, YOU ARE FUNNY..


Lastly, LUUSI'S CARRIED THIS ORIKI WHEN HE LEFT ILE IFE....

OMO OKE RILE A LAGADA OGUN.......WHY DID OMO OKE APPEARED ALSO IN OONI'S ORIKI BEFORE IT GOT TO GEESI?

KARE O O BA MI. AYE O O...... WHY IS IT ONLY OONI LINEAGE USES KAARE O OBA ? SAME THING AS LUUSI...

POINT ONE YORUBA KINGDOM THAT USES SAME ORIKI AS OONI APART FROM OMO ODO( ODUA DESCENDANTS)?



IF MY LINEAGE ISN'T IMPORTANT WHY WILL HE BE PRAISED? OONI RIA? MEANS : I KNOW YOU/I SEE YOU ... MY BROTHER

SWALLOW IT. GOD CREATED US INTO THAT FAMILY. WE DIDN'T BEG FOR IT BUT GOD.... SO ENJOY YOURSELF MY DEAR BROTHER... E MI OMO OGUN

IranjeIdita:


..........



Please share Araba's narratives.

The places you can find proper narratives on Oduduwa in Ife apart from Idio are from Iddo, Obameri's compound, Gbonkaa's compound, Baba Sigidi's compound at Oke Ijan to mention a few.

Orunmila is not an awo of Oduduwa, he was a chief diviner and an abitrator during the civil war. Oduduwa met him on ground.

I am a son of Lagos, not of Ife, I therefore do not have familiarity with the different wards in Ife or the authorities vested to speak about Oduduwa. Nonetheless, ARABA of IFE is not included in your list and I wonder why OOni choosed him, and not those you listed, to give the historical narrative to Wyndham in 1921.

http://sacred-texts.com/afr/ife/ife4.htm

In this publication, Ooni spoke first outlining the creation story (the mythical Ife), this is followed by Araba giving the history (the deeds of Ife)

Iranje, I know you are not Christian, Muslim or Jew, but have you read the Bible or Quran or Torah? If not you should read these scriptures. I say this because nowhere in the accounts narrated by the Ooni and the Araba is Christianity, Islam or Judaism mentioned but yet the Ife version of creativity and deeds are exact mirror of EXODUS (which was lifted from Torah, popularly called Old Testament), and in the Quran of Surah Baqarah, Imran and Nuh.

1921 Ife already had Christians and Muslims in large population, yet not once does the account narrated by Ooni and Araba mentioned or referenced the Abrahamid religions as source. It is a total departure from the account attributed to Muhammadu Bello. Even at that, Muhammadu Bello is not the originator of the Yoruba/Canaan/Nimrod story. He said explicitly, "according to what we are told".

Who told him this?

Let's go to the North for a moment. Underneath the Islamic practice in North the Hausa indigenous belief systems still exist. The heroism of Bayajjida is re-enacted yearly and celebrated like we do for Oduduwa. I wrote about this some months ago but knowing people in Nairaland, the truth of it was not acceptable to many.

In Daura, every year they bring out a specific sacred drum and they beat a eulogy praising Lamurudu, who they acknowledge in the chain of progenitors for Hausa States. Likewise they practice the IYA cult (being the feminine essense of mother earth and the cosmos).

This practice in North has nothing to do with Islam but an acknowledgement of their root. We also acknowledge our root and reference Ife as cradle of our society, like they do Daura.


THE MIGRATION FROM THE EAST

As well as the stories which describe the creation centred at Ife, there are traditions that
the Yoruba migrated from the east, the lands of the Bible and of Islam. The following
story is the version of the Revd Johnson, which he interpreted to mean that the Yoruba
were descended from Coptic Christians.

The Yoruba are descended from Lamurudu, who was a king of Mecca. His sons
were Oduduwa, who became the founder of the Yoruba, and at least two others
whose descendants moved to Gogobiri and Kukawa in Hausaland; their kinship
with the Yoruba is shown by the common scarifications.



If a Muslim say Yorubas are from East you people look into his background, if he is Christian, you will say he is biased on the Bible. If he is Muslim you all say he is biased on what Muhammadu Bello shared to Clapperton and his account is toned to Islam. If he mentions Israel you all call him Jew wannabe. If he is the Araba of Ife you all say he is not authorized to speak on origin story. If we ask whether or not Oduduwa is foreigner you say no he is not and that spin is based on awos of Ife knitting a conspiracy to block visitation to his origin.

Here is my view of you based on what I have so far read from your contributions, you are descendant of the indigenous ethnic group in Ife and the idea of subordinate to a foreign sovereign power is no longer comfortable with your world view, therefore you bring up all kind of excuses and diversions to evade the evident truth. Ny all means any mention of foreign root for Oduduwa must be shut down. Any mention of Mecca or East must be denigrated as Islam bias. Any reference to Samuel Crowther or Johnson must be dismissed as Christian bias. You fail to see your own bias and denial of the evident truth.

This malady is the same problem that the Edo people agonize under - they raise objection to Ife as the place where their Oba came from. Therefore this gives them superiority rather than subordination to Yoruba.

The greatness of Ife and all Yorubas is Sovereingty, Sacred Arts and Worship. The truth of origin must come through these channels, not by studying rocks and its age or fossils and sediments. I don't care how long Ife has been in existence, at a time the people of Ife were subjugated under a set of foreigners that came in migration from East and these foreigners is what we call Yoruba, and no doubt they are distinct from the indigenous Ugbo people or whatever the first occupiers of Ife were called.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir, are you a linguist then?

No, Im not.

Esoteric energy in sound?

Yes, esoteric energy is present in all physical dimensions. Thoughts is ether, it issues out of the tongue as word but the word is accompanied by a energy that vibrates the air and disperses it into the ethereal. That energy is the sound. It is creative and it is destructive. Those who understand its properties know how to manipulate and expand it...or compress and subdue it. Let's leave it at that.

Oh, you feel confident you know the placements of the other principals asides that of Oduduwa? Do you?

The only reason you feel this way is because some of the other deities are worshipped outside Ife with large followership.

Oduduwa and most of the deities who were his followers have very small followership in Ife and they are not worshipped outside Ife.



It is not a mis-speak, it is actually the truth, sadly.

I am not talking about other principals of Ife. I am fiocused on Oduduwa. He is a foreigner. His settlement in Ife maybe off-bounds, thats not my pursuit. I am focused...Oduduwa is a foreigner. Before Ife he was elsewhere. Where is that elsewhere?

Even as a son of Idita, I know how things are kept or obfuscated to people who are not omo-ile and how things are purposely obfuscated to the obinrin ile (females from the compound). Nobody knew or knows much about Obatala in or outside Ife because like most deities in Ife, it is strictly a family thing and it was only in 1950s that outsiders were getting initiated and inducted into lesser chieftaincy positions where much won't be revealed to them - the aworo group (oduduwa, obameri, gbonkaa etc) are still very much stuck with initiating/inducting family members only plus their level of charm & esoteric stuff is too harsh and rough that it scares their own compound members not to mention outsiders.

You speak arrogantly about your breed, pushing it in other people's face. You don't know who I am. It doesn't even matter who I am for the focus of discussion on the roots of Oduduwa and his connection to Canaan.

Right infront of my family compound is the Idito shrine. The Adimu of Lagos is rooted to the Adimula of Ife. When Adimu comes out his first stop is Idito. He finishes his prayers there, makes a 180 degrees turn face my grandfather house and walks up to the door and converse with the head of my family then departs. Could Idito be a corruption of Idita? Very possibly. Let's get off subject of breed and background.

Was Oduduwa born in Ife? If not, then where was he born?

Why Oduduwa's settlement is hidden to prevent visits is because it is the starting point of coronation for ooni elects and it is only visited by initiates during that period only. This is the norm for most deities in Ife - no one goes to Obatala's palace at Iranje Oko/Idita except alato is to be fed or there's a message requiring we go. It is off in the forests and well, due to the greedy sale of lands by relatives houses are beginning to sprout around this place.

So Oduduwa is the one that brought sovereing power to Ife. Where did the sovereingty come from?

OlaoChi:


no need to argue

so sir, does this mean yoruba and chinese have a common origin or spiritual connection?
i laugh at the bold. and you claim to be a yoruba?

are those chinese observing obeisance to elders or are they in a temple worshipping?

How is tatoo spiritual?

MetaPhysical:


I am a son of Lagos, not of Ife, I therefore do not have familiarity with the different wards in Ife or the authorities vested to speak about Oduduwa. Nonetheless, ARABA of IFE is not included in your list and I wonder why OOni choosed him, and not those you listed, to give the historical narrative to Wyndham in 1921.

http://sacred-texts.com/afr/ife/ife4.htm

In this publication, Ooni spoke first outlining the creation story (the mythical Ife), this is followed by Araba giving the history (the deeds of Ife)

Iranje, I know you are not Christian, Muslim or Jew, but have you read the Bible or Quran or Torah? If not you should read these scriptures. I say this because nowhere in the accounts narrated by the Ooni and the Araba is Christianity, Islam or Judaism mentioned but yet the Ife version of creativity and deeds are exact mirror of EXODUS (which was lifted from Torah, popularly called Old Testament), and in the Quran of Surah Baqarah, Imran and Nuh.

1921 Ife already had Christians and Muslims in large population, yet not once does the account narrated by Ooni and Araba mentioned or referenced the Abrahamid religions as source. It is a total departure from the account attributed to Muhammadu Bello. Even at that, Muhammadu Bello is not the originator of the Yoruba/Canaan/Nimrod story. He said explicitly, "according to what we are told".

Who told him this?

Let's go to the North for a moment. Underneath the Islamic practice in North the Hausa indigenous belief systems still exist. The heroism of Bayajjida is re-enacted yearly and celebrated like we do for Oduduwa. I wrote about this some months ago but knowing people in Nairaland, the truth of it was not acceptable to many.

In Daura, every year they bring out a specific sacred drum and they beat a eulogy praising Lamurudu, who they acknowledge in the chain of progenitors for Hausa States. Likewise they practice the IYA cult (being the feminine essense of mother earth and the cosmos).

This practice in North has nothing to do with Islam but an acknowledgement of their root. We also acknowledge our root and reference Ife as cradle of our society, like they do Daura.

That creation story is one of the many ones from Ifa. You do not expect the Araba or the Ooni to tell the white man the actual gist when even many Ife indigenes do not know the actual gist.

THE MIGRATION FROM THE EAST

As well as the stories which describe the creation centred at Ife, there are traditions that
the Yoruba migrated from the east, the lands of the Bible and of Islam. The following
story is the version of the Revd Johnson, which he interpreted to mean that the Yoruba
were descended from Coptic Christians.

The Yoruba are descended from Lamurudu, who was a king of Mecca. His sons
were Oduduwa, who became the founder of the Yoruba, and at least two others
whose descendants moved to Gogobiri and Kukawa in Hausaland; their kinship
with the Yoruba is shown by the common scarifications.



If a Muslim say Yorubas are from East you people look into his background, if he is Christian, you will say he is biased on the Bible. If he is Muslim you all say he is biased on what Muhammadu Bello shared to Clapperton and his account is toned to Islam. If he mentions Israel you all call him Jew wannabe. If he is the Araba of Ife you all say he is not authorized to speak on origin story. If we ask whether or not Oduduwa is foreigner you say no he is not and that spin is based on awos of Ife knitting a conspiracy to block visitation to his origin.

Here is my view of you based on what I have so far read from your contributions, you are descendant of the indigenous ethnic group in Ife and the idea of subordinate to a foreign sovereign power is no longer comfortable with your world view, therefore you bring up all kind of excuses and diversions to evade the evident truth. Ny all means any mention of foreign root for Oduduwa must be shut down. Any mention of Mecca or East must be denigrated as Islam bias. Any reference to Samuel Crowther or Johnson must be dismissed as Christian bias. You fail to see your own bias and denial of the evident truth.

This malady is the same problem that the Edo people agonize under - they raise objection to Ife as the place where their Oba came from. Therefore this gives them superiority rather than subordination to Yoruba.

The greatness of Ife and all Yorubas is Sovereingty, Sacred Arts and Worship. The truth of origin must come through these channels, not by studying rocks and its age or fossils and sediments. I don't care how long Ife has been in existence, at a time the people of Ife were subjugated under a set of foreigners that came in migration from East and these foreigners is what we call Yoruba, and no doubt they are distinct from the indigenous Ugbo people or whatever the first occupiers of Ife were called.

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The only reason for this attachment to the theory of Oduduwa from the east is because of ahmed baba, muhammed sokoto story of Oyo's migration with them from Middle East which Samuel Johnson in his Oyo-centric origin story of Yoruba inducted Oduduwa into the gist.

If none of the above happened we would not be here speaking of this.

No, Im not.




Yes, esoteric energy is present in all physical dimensions. Thoughts is ether, it issues out of the tongue as word but the word is accompanied by a energy that vibrates the air and disperses it into the ethereal. That energy is the sound. It is creative and it is destructive. Those who understand its properties know how to manipulate and expand it...or compress and subdue it. Let's leave it at that.






I am not talking about other principals of Ife. I am fiocused on Oduduwa. He is a foreigner. His settlement in Ife maybe off-bounds, thats not my pursuit. I am focused...Oduduwa is a foreigner. Before Ife he was elsewhere. Where is that elsewhere?

Maybe you forgot what you typed.

Here: There are many principals in the aboriginal Ife, Oduduwa, Obatala, Ogun, and so on.

The placement of the others is not hidden, why is Oduduwa the only one veiled behind a secrecy?

What is the need to cover his origin, why can't people know and visit?

Anyway, I think you are seeing 'foreigner' in the context of modern age of borders and boundaries.

Oduduwa is only said to be a foreigner because his own community during the period of the autonomous 13 hamlets was not in the valley that make up the confederacy but ontop of the hill. Where he came from is where all Oonis go to during the beginning of coronation procession which is a re-enactment of where Oduduwa came from, wars he fought, places/compounds he visisted and what he did there and the role of those whole switched to his side.

An analogy: You have your family compound with lines that are recognized but someone who lives in the same community as you, say opposite your compound, comes to disrupt the arrangement of your compound. To you and everyone, he is a foreigner/outsider.

If he was a foreigner from entirely different lands then how was he able to convince notable figures who were under Obatala to switch to his side? In what language did they communicate Arabic, Canaanite, Aramaic, Yoruba? How come no traces of Arab, Israel, Egypt phenomenon are found in the palace, the throne or coronation?

Keep in mind Oranmiyan in the mid centuries when Ife had opened up more and received migrants and sent of emigrants, went off to Bini but left because of language problems. How much more when Ife was still an enclosure and these communities were mostly unknown to each other not to talk if the Arab world?

You speak arrogantly about your breed, pushing it in other people's face. You don't know who I am. It doesn't even matter who I am for the focus of discussion on the roots of Oduduwa and his connection to Canaan.

Right infront of my family compound is the Idito shrine. The Adimu of Lagos is rooted to the Adimula of Ife. When Adimu comes out his first stop is Idito. He finishes his prayers there, makes a 180 degrees turn face my grandfather house and walks up to the door and converse with the head of my family then departs. Could Idito be a corruption of Idita? Very possibly. Let's get off subject of breed and background.

Was Oduduwa born in Ife? If not, then where was he born? So Oduduwa is the one that brought sovereing power to Ife. Where did the sovereingty come from?

I don't know of arrogance and I don't know of idito being the same a Idita but I know Idita is not a stand alone word, it is 'Idetamogundudu'.

Oduduwa was born in a part now part of the present day Ife, at least, Oke Ora when excavated, artifacts dating to many centuries back were found and it revealed it as a place being properly occupied with a proper communal system.

Sovereign power? Well, it is to be noted that Oduduwa after winning the civil war had no crown except from the one made from leaves from a particular tree on Oke Ora. He relied heavily on military, spies planted as chiefs (Otun Ife) to hold his place. Most of the hamlets regarded (and still do) their clan kings as sovereign. Oduduwa was always shut away in the palace and managed to secure spaces for the hill settlers in the valley.

Speaking of sovereign, Ife was split in two with two kings. Oduduwa and Obatala for the most part till Oduduwa's army forced Obatala to fall under his authority, something that did not work but in turn made Oduduwa submit to Obatala's position as the head. Oduduwa relied on Obatala for his authority in Ife & every Ooni does.

It appears to me that the clans kings already exhibited sovereign power before Oduduwa.

OlaoChi:



A so called fool that is actually far more intelligent than a history inventor keep up your emotional outbursts
you are no intellectual, an intellectual knows how to defend his position with facts

You are 'the wisest fool' then.

Ida ni yoo perare leru.

Keep being a fool, I am heavily loaded with fine details.

THE VERSION OF ODU THAT MENTIONED ELEDUMARE AS BEEN THE CREATOR:




In the Odu Okanran Ogunda there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. In this version, it is Orunmila (the Prophet, Orisa that represents Olodumare’s wisdom) who carries the snail shell full of the substance which creates land upon the primordial waters. The Snail Shell was taken from the seat of Olodumare and given to Orunmila with the authority to create the earth. In the process of creation, Orunmila dipped his hands into the snail shell and took out measures of earth-dust (Oro, primordial matter) with which land was created on the primordial waters.



Odu Ifa Osa Ogunda
There-were-no-living-things
Was the priest on earth
That-which-was-suspended
But-did-not-descend
Was the priest in heaven
All-was-just-empty-space
With-no-substance
Was the priest of Mid-Air
It was divined for Aiye and Orun*
When they both exited
With no inhabitants
In the two empty snail shells,
There were neither birds nor spirits
Living in them
Odumare then created himself
Being the Primal cause
Which is the reason we call Odumare
The only wise one in aiye
He is the only cause in creation,
The only wise one in Orun,
Who created humans.
When He had no companion,
He applied wisdom to the situation
To avert any disaster.
You, alone,
The only one in Orun
Is the name of Odumare
The only wise one,
We give you thanks,
The only knowing mind,
You created man.
Listening to one side of an argument,
You judge, and all are pleased.
Ase
*Aiye is the visible realm; Orun the invisible realm. Most confuse these two words to mean earth and heaven. Hopefully, when you finish reading this material, you will be able to come back and make sense of the above ese (verse)


In Odu Ifa Osa Ogunda, part of a verse says, “Iri tu wili tu wili la fi da ile aye, la bu da ile,” which means, “Dews pouring lightly, pouring lightly, was used to create the earth world in order that goodness could come forth into existence at once.” The dew drops are particles of Oro – primordial matter - contained in the snail shell. Once empty, it remains as the representation of the base of causation from which matter derived. The “goodness” speaks to eniyan – human beings, which brought goodness to earth. The oro then melted and was suspended in mid-air (referred to in the above Odu verse as the “priest of mid-air”). Oro then dropped;


Oro, the cause of great concern for the wise and experienced elders
It sounds, “Ku” (making the heart miss a beat)
“Ke” (as a ponderous object hitting the ground)
“Gi” (making the last sound before silence)
and “La”, with a loud cracking sound is transformed into a new state called “Ela.”


TESTIMONY OF ANCIENT YORUBAS HAVING A KNOWLEDGE OF ISRAEL'S GOD IN THEIR OWN RELIGION AS ELEDUMARE.

YORUBAS OF OLD HAD KNOWLEDGE OF BIBLICAL GOD

THE VERSION OF ODU THAT MENTIONED ELEDUMARE AS BEING THE CREATOR:




In the Odu Okanran Ogunda there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. In this version, it is Orunmila (the Prophet, Orisa that represents Olodumare’s wisdom) who carries the snail shell full of the substance which creates land upon the primordial waters. The Snail Shell was taken from the seat of Olodumare and given to Orunmila with the authority to create the earth. In the process of creation, Orunmila dipped his hands into the snail shell and took out measures of earth-dust (Oro, primordial matter) with which land was created on the primordial waters.



Odu Ifa Osa Ogunda
There-were-no-living-things
Was the priest on earth
That-which-was-suspended
But-did-not-descend
Was the priest in heaven
All-was-just-empty-space
With-no-substance
Was the priest of Mid-Air
It was divined for Aiye and Orun*
When they both exited
With no inhabitants
In the two empty snail shells,
There were neither birds nor spirits
Living in them
Odumare then created himself
Being the Primal cause
Which is the reason we call Odumare
The only wise one in aiye
He is the only cause in creation,
The only wise one in Orun,
Who created humans.
When He had no companion,
He applied wisdom to the situation
To avert any disaster.
You, alone,
The only one in Orun
Is the name of Odumare
The only wise one,
We give you thanks,
The only knowing mind,
You created man.
Listening to one side of an argument,
You judge, and all are pleased.
Ase
*Aiye is the visible realm; Orun the invisible realm. Most confuse these two words to mean earth and heaven. Hopefully, when you finish reading this material, you will be able to come back and make sense of the above ese (verse)


In Odu Ifa Osa Ogunda, part of a verse says, “Iri tu wili tu wili la fi da ile aye, la bu da ile,” which means, “Dews pouring lightly, pouring lightly, was used to create the earth world in order that goodness could come forth into existence at once.” The dew drops are particles of Oro – primordial matter - contained in the snail shell. Once empty, it remains as the representation of the base of causation from which matter derived. The “goodness” speaks to eniyan – human beings, which brought goodness to earth. The oro then melted and was suspended in mid-air (referred to in the above Odu verse as the “priest of mid-air”). Oro then dropped;


Oro, the cause of great concern for the wise and experienced elders
It sounds, “Ku” (making the heart miss a beat)
“Ke” (as a ponderous object hitting the ground)
“Gi” (making the last sound before silence)
and “La”, with a loud cracking sound is transformed into a new state called “Ela.”


TESTIMONY OF ANCIENT YORUBAS HAVING A KNOWLEDGE OF ISRAEL'S GOD IN THEIR OWN RELIGION AS ELEDUMARE.

YORUBAS OF OLD HAD KNOWLEDGE OF BIBLICAL GOD

GOD OF ISRAEL :ELYION (JEHOVAH)

GENESIS 1vs 2
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.


ISAIAH 44 vs 24:
"This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,

ISAIAH 45 vs 7

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these


ISAIAH 66 vs2

"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.


ISAIAH 45 vs 18

For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Verse Concepts




JEREMIAH 10 vs 11
Thus you shall say to them, "The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens."

GOD OF ISRAEL :ELYION (JEHOVAH) HAVING SIMILAR CHARACTERISTICS OF YORUBA ELEDUMARE.

GENESIS 1vs 2
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.


ISAIAH 44 vs 24:
"This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,

ISAIAH 45 vs 7

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these


ISAIAH 66 vs2

"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.


ISAIAH 45 vs 18

For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Verse Concepts




JEREMIAH 10 vs 11
Thus you shall say to them, "The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens."

OlaoChi:


no need to argue

so sir, does this mean yoruba and chinese have a common origin or spiritual connection?
i laugh at the bold. and you claim to be a yoruba?

KOW TOW is different from YORUBA PROSTRATION. Don't mix it up.

Kowtow, which is borrowed from kau tau in Cantonese ( koutou in Mandarin Chinese), is the act of deep respect shown by prostration , that is, kneeling and bowing so low as to have one's head touching the ground.

KENTÈ FROM GHANA ISN'T THE SAME ASO OFI...IT ISN'T THE SAME THING. IT SEEMS YOU HAVEN'T UNDER STUDY YORUBA TRADITION,THEN YOU NEED A RETHINK



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