Society without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment

Before he began his recent travels, it seemed to Phil Zuckerman as if humans all over the globe were getting religion--praising deities, performing holy rites, and soberly defending the world from sin. But most residents of Denmark and Sweden, he found, don't worship any god at all, don't pray, and don't give much credence to religious dogma of any kind. Instead of being bastions of sin and corruption, however, as the Christian Right has suggested a godless society would be, these countries are filled with residents who score at the very top of the happiness index and enjoy their healthy societies, which boast some of the lowest rates of violent crime in the world (along with some of the lowest levels of corruption), excellent educational systems, strong economies, well-supported arts, free health care, egalitarian social policies, outstanding bike paths, and great beer.

Zuckerman formally interviewed nearly 150 Danes and Swedes of all ages and educational backgrounds over the course of fourteen months, beginning in 2005. He was particularly interested in the worldviews of people who live their lives without religious orientation. How do they think about and cope with death? Are they worried about an afterlife? What he found is that nearly all of his interviewees live their lives without much fear of the Grim Reaper or worries about the hereafter. This led him to wonder how and why it is that certain societies are nonreligious in a world that seems to be marked by increasing religiosity. Drawing on prominent sociological theories and his own extensive research, Zuckerman ventures some interesting answers.
This fascinating approach directly counters the claims of outspoken, conservative American Christians who argue that a society without God would be hell on earth. It is crucial, Zuckerman believes, for Americans to know that society without God is not only possible, but it can be quite civil and pleasant.

Personally, looking at this issue from a "christian atheist" point of view, the research couldn't have been more correct. Why oh why do some adherents of the abrahamic faiths tell us that only they will enjoy a mythical heaven, while the rest of us will be in a mythical hell suffering and burning?! What a wicked and sadistic way of thinking!

All evil known to man today can be narrowed down to his passion for a religion. Man has totally subjugated his ability to think for himself to an external force called luck/God/Karma e.t.c. The interesting thing is that the adherents of religion get defensive whenever we ask them to show some form of evidence that this God exists, what's so difficult in showing that the deity you worship really exists?! This is also based on the backdrop that 80% of the bible has been proven never to have happened, hence it is inherently false. Why do some persons passionately pursue a false doctrine even when they know it's false?!

im sorry bu this not denmark and sweden. Nigerian hav different lifestyle based on morals, tribes, culture and family values.

PAGAN 9JA:

im sorry bu this not denmark and sweden. Nigerian hav different lifestyle based on morals, tribes, culture and family values.

Therein lies the problem with us! We scream to the high heavens about our perceived morality and values, yet we lag behind in development as compared to nations supposedly without these high morals. Religion is part of what is hindering our development, people steal public funds, cheat, kill, in the name of God, the problem is our passion for religion.

Religion isnt the root of all evil, it's just the tool used to defend, justify and institutionalize irrationality, myopia, ignorance and bigotry.("evil"

What in jebus' name is a "christian atheist"??

Jesus, although not seen as divine, is still a central feature of Christian atheism. Most Christian atheists think of Jesus as a wise and good man, accepting his moral teachings but rejecting the idea of his divinity. Hamilton said that to the Christian atheist, Jesus is not really the foundation of faith; instead he is a “place to be, a standpoint” [4]. Christian atheists look to Jesus as an example of what a Christian should be, but they do not see him as a god.
Some Christian atheists[who?] criticize orthodox Christians for not living in the world, for not being connected to the rest of humanity. Jesus Hamilton wrote that following Jesus means being “alongside the neighbor, being for him” [4], and that to follow Jesus means to be human, to help other humans, and to further mankind.

Christian atheism actually sounds good!!! It turns Jesus into a Buddha like character without the hocus pocus. Even if Jesus never existed, it would be great if his followers look into this philosophy because then Joagbaje and co will stop sucking their blood like vampires.

Martian:

Religion isnt the root of all evil, it's just the tool used to defend, justify and institutionalize irrationality, myopia, ignorance and bigotry.("evil"

What in jebus' name is a "christian atheist"??

We are basically saying the same thing here. People commit crimes under the cover and justification of religion, religion remains the worst thing the white man left with Africans after colonization, and it is indeed an instrument of neo-colonialism today. The interesting thing is that even the white men who gave us religion have long since abandoned it and pursued a secular culture, yet we still hold tenaciously to it.

Some people argue that without religion, there will be no morality, what a load of bollocks! Morality is definitely not gained from pursuing a particular religion, but rather, morality is gained for the day to day actions we take to develop relationships with our fellow human beings. So what then is the usefulness of religion?! Absolutely nothing if you ask me; a drunk is better off than a religious man, at least a drunk will eventually become sober, but a religious man takes his delusion to the grave.

theres nothing lyk christian atheist. i have heard of Pagan Atheists such as Hellenism, Platonism, Hindu Atheism, etc.

but christianity cannot have atheism. they r d ones who first started religious fanticsm n dogma and monotheism. christianity is all about monotheism. its just impossible.

claremont:

Therein lies the problem with us! We scream to the high heavens about our perceived morality and values, yet we lag behind in development as compared to nations supposedly without these high morals. Religion is part of what is hindering our development, people steal public funds, cheat, kill, in the name of God, the problem is our passion for religion.

No i disagree. there are right religions and wrong religions. (im not talking about good or bad religions). Nigeria now is on the wrong track whereby majority r following the wrong religions, concepts that were never meant for us. thats the main reason why the North and South want to break away from each other. we r currently on the wrong path. more energy is being wasted in warr and partion, then in development and progress. the only solution is religious unity based on the right religion or the religion of the masses. also dont forget the politics.

PAGAN  9JA:

theres nothing lyk christian atheist. i have heard of Pagan Atheists such as Hellenism, Platonism, Hindu Atheism, etc.

but christianity cannot have atheism. they r d ones who first started religious fanticsm n dogma and monotheism. christianity is all about monotheism. its just impossible. i

You are giving Christianity too much credit,they didnt start none of those things you mentioned.

claremont:

We are basically saying the same thing here. People commit crimes under the cover and justification of religion, religion remains the worst thing the white man left with Africans after colonization, and it is indeed an instrument of neo-colonialism today. The interesting thing is that even the white men who gave us religion have long since abandoned it and pursued a secular culture, yet we still hold tenaciously to it.

Some people argue that without religion, there will be no morality, what a load of bollocks! Morality is definitely not gained from pursuing a particular religion, but rather, morality is gained for the day to day actions we take to develop relationships with our fellow human beings. So what then is the usefulness of religion?! Absolutely nothing if you ask me; a drunk is better off than a religious man, at least a drunk will eventually become sober, but a religious man takes his delusion to the grave.

What I'm saying is that religion is not "the root of all evil". What you call evil will happen with or without religion. That's just nature.

PAGAN 9JA:

theres nothing lyk christian atheist. i have heard of Pagan Atheists such as Hellenism, Platonism, Hindu Atheism, etc.

but christianity cannot have atheism. they r d ones who first started religious fanticsm n dogma and monotheism. christianity is all about monotheism. its just impossible.

No i disagree. there are right religions and wrong religions. (im not talking about good or bad religions). Nigeria now is on the wrong track whereby majority r following the wrong religions, concepts that were never meant for us. thats the main reason why the North and South want to break away from each other. we r currently on the wrong path. more energy is being wasted in warr and partion, then in development and progress. the only solution is religious unity based on the right religion or the religion of the masses. also dont forget the politics.

What religion is the "right" religion, and which is the "wrong" religion? I hope you are not talking about any of the abrahamic faiths whose adherents believe they alone are the only ones chosen to go to heaven, while all non-adherents will go to hell.

Martian:

You are giving Christianity too much credit,they didnt start none of those things you mentioned.

What I'm saying is that religion is not "the root of all evil". What you call evil will happen with or without religion. That's just nature.

The evil I am specific on is terrorism, wars, genocide, bigotry e.t.c. and they can all be narrowed down to religion. I am yet to see a terrorist who is an atheist.

An outsider would think that nigeria being a very religious country  would be full with honest righteous, born again god fearing christians and allah fearing muslims everywhere that life here would be like living in heaven, but then the opposite is more like the truth.

Both christians and muslims are fighting and killing themselves over tow imported religions. The way our (god fearing) politicians thief money its as if theres no heaven or hell and they believe that this is the only life they have. Because i find it hard to understand that they can loot the treasury if they all sincerely believe they will spend eternity burning at over 100 degrees centigrade in HELL!

If our Pastors (who are just taking advantage of the situation) would build a school cheap housing or a hospital for every church that they build then not only would that improve and help the country to progess but that pastor is most likely going to increase his fellowship, but then in nigeria pastors are just part of the problem, they'd rather see your loved ones DIE while they just pray for you and send there own to the most expensive hospitals with your tithe money. Religion is just like opium as long as the masses get thier weekly dose of it from thier church they will continue to endure and suffer and smile until they DIE believeing that they will go to imaginary Heaven.

Religion is For Drop Outs. People hold on to religion, like a crutch because they can't make it any other way. With religion you stop being responsible for your own actions and blame someone else like God when it's something you like and the Devil when it's something you don't like.

Abeg o you guys, we need religion. If all those pastors, imams and dibias become unemployed there'll surely be a huge rise in burglaries, armed robberies and social strife.

The boys need jobs or else they'll turn to crime to feed themselves. Come to think of it most of them already do crime to feed themselves.

Horus:

Religion is For Drop Outs. People hold on to religion, like a crutch because they can't make it any other way. With religion you stop being responsible for your own actions and blame someone else like God when it's something you like and the Devil when it's something you don't like.

Spot on!!!

Evil Brain:

Abeg o you guys, we need religion. If all those pastors, imams and dibias become unemployed there'll surely be a huge rise in burglaries, armed robberies and social strife.

The boys need jobs or else they'll turn to crime to feed themselves. Come to think of it most of them already do crime to feed themselves.

The rise of religion in Nigeria has been followed by an attendant rise in corruption, armed robbery e.t.c. The fact of the matter is that religion has proven not to be a cure for these societal ill; if religion is not a cure, then it is a CAUSE!!!

In my opinion, Nigeria is the most Godlessly religious country in the world. Religion is supposed to guide and moderate adherents relationship with his environment in a positive way, but in Nigeria the opposite is the case.
We have worship centers (Mosques+churches) outnumbering schools and hospitals yet we have all sorts of crimes going up by the day, looting, killing, prostitution e.t.c committed daily by those who still go to mosques and churches daily.
In Sweden and Denmark as the poster said, they conduct themselves as if they read and obey religious books. Religion is working in their lives, yet they are non-religious.
If i have my way, i will confine religion in Nigeria only to worship centers so we can have peace.

omo alaro:

In my opinion, Nigeria is the most Godlessly religious country in the world. Religion is supposed to guide and moderate adherents relationship with his environment in a positive way, but in Nigeria the opposite is the case.
We have worship centers (Mosques+churches) outnumbering schools and hospitals yet we have all sorts of crimes going up by the day, looting, killing, prostitution e.t.c committed daily by those who still go to mosques and churches daily.
In Sweden and Denmark as the poster said, they conduct themselves as if they read and obey religious books. Religion is working in their lives, yet they are non-religious.
If i have my way, i will confine religion in Nigeria only to worship centers so we can have peace.

They say Nigeria is the most "religious" country on earth, so how come that religious passion has not translated to tangible development?! Religion is a tool of repression, the proponents of religion use it to shield our eyes thus preventing us from asking questions.

Martian:

You are giving Christianity too much credit,they didnt start none of those things you mentioned.

then who else first started it before the advent of christianity , there were hardly any religious wars, except for a little problem created by the Jewish people, whoe were again Abrahmic lyk you people. but even that problem was not much religious, more lyk they were fighting for regional autonomy and an autonomous Jewish state under Roman rule. and anyways the early Hebrew were all Pagan. 

proof of Early Semtic-Hebrew Paganism:

"The[b] Eternal One (`Olam) [/b] has made a covenant oath with us, Asherah has made (a pact) with us. And all the sons of El, And the great council of all the Holy Ones (Qedesh). With oaths of Heaven and Ancient Earth."

a beautiful line showing the union of the skies and the Earth. by the way, El/Elohim had 70 sons. 


Some Hebrew Gods:

*ʼIlu "god" (Sky god, head of pantheon: Ac. Ilu, Ug. il, Pp. ʼl/Ēlos, Ib. Ēl/Elohim, Ar. Allāh, OSA ʼl).
*ʼAṯiratu (Ilu's wife: Ug. aṯrt, Ib. Ašērāh, OSA ʼṯrt). The meaning of the name is unknown. She is also called *ʼIlatu "goddess" (Ac. Ilat, Pp. ʼlt, Ar. Allāt).

*ʻAṯtaru (God of Fertility: Ug. ʻṯtr, OSA ʻṯtr, Et. ʻAstar sky god). ʻAṯtartu (Goddess of Fertility: Ac. Ištar, Ug. ʻṯtrt, Pp. ʻštrt / Astarte, Ib. ʻAštoreṯ). The meaning of the name is unknown and not related to ʼAṯiratu.

*Haddu/*Hadadu (Storm god: Ac. Adad, Ug. hd, Pp. Adodos). The meaning of the name is probably “thunderer”. This god is also known as *Baʻlu "husband, lord" (Ac. Bel, Ug. bʻl, Pp. bʻl/Belos, Ib. Baʻal).

*Śamšu "sun" (Sun goddess: Ug. špš, OSA: šmš, but Ac. Šamaš is a male god).
*Wariḫu "moon" (Moon god: Ug. yrḫ, Ib. Yārēaḥ, OSA wrḫ).


Before the advent of fanatically monotheistic, convert-greedy christianity, all wars fought were usually on land, resources, personal feuds, etc. after christianity, our world has since been riddled with useless religious wars. entire civilisations and cultures have been destroyed by christianity. In Fact, today Europe hardly has any strong culture. its tribes, such as the Vandals, Goths, Saxons, Angles, Viking Norsemen, Celts, etc., have all vanished. Then came the crusades, and then slavery. Not the kind of Slavery practiced by the ancient Romans and African peoples, whereby slaves were usually freed on good conduct, could return to their homeand, were treated lyk family members and even had the chance to get government jobs AND retain their language, culture and religion. NO! this was different. this was plain evil.   

The Pagans and Jews do not seek converts, but christianity and islam have spoilt the very image of religion *disgusted*  they have over the centuries, forcefully converted and assimmilated entire tribes , cities and even countries. they have stolen resources, enslaved and introduced foreign diseases such as smallpox to tribes that had no immunity to it. both, animals and humans have suffered. entire forests have been destroyed. they have changed the very face of the world. in a bad way, ofcourse.

claremont:

What religion is the "right" religion, and which is the "wrong" religion? I hope you are not talking about any of the abrahamic faiths whose adherents believe they alone are the only ones chosen to go to heaven, while all non-adherents will go to hell.
The evil I am specific on is terrorism, wars, genocide, bigotry e.t.c. and they can all be narrowed down to religion. I am yet to see a terrorist who is an atheist.

yes you are right. ill be blunt. from experience, to me:

wrong religions: all abrahamic convert-seeking religions. they r islam n christianity.

right religions: all forms of traditional Pagan religions of the people. All Pagan religions are the same in the essence & one cannot convert to them. you just need to be born into a people that follow/followed it. Pagan religions do not have human founders lyk islam/christianity. they r d religion of the people, the living creatures and God.

Paganism and atheism are on the exact opposite ends of each other. one believes in many Gods while one does not believe in God, yet, both are indispensible to each other, since every force has an opposite counter-force. It is therefore even possible to be both at the same time. also, both dont practice terrorism.

Paganism does not distinguish between good or bad. It only distinguishes between right or wrong.

manmustwac:

Both christians and muslims are fighting and killing themselves over tow[i] imported religions[/i].

well said. i just dont get this. this is madness. lyk a disease. 

Evil Brain:

Abeg o you guys, we need religion. If all those pastors, imams and dibias become unemployed there'll surely be a huge rise in burglaries, armed robberies and social strife.

The boys need jobs or else they'll turn to crime to feed themselves. Come to think of it most of them already do crime to feed themselves.

true we need religion. without the fear of God and without morals, the crime rate will rise, people will be indisciplined, they will vist prostitues more often, steal, drugs, etc.

all we need are right religions and the right people to propagate them.

PAGAN 9JA:

then who else first started it before the advent of christianity , there were hardly any religious wars, except for a little problem created by the Jewish people, whoe were again Abrahmic lyk you people. but even that problem was not much religious, more lyk they were fighting for regional autonomy and an autonomous Jewish state under Roman rule. and anyways the early Hebrew were all Pagan. 

yes you are right. ill be blunt. from experience, to me:

wrong religions: all abrahamic convert-seeking religions. they r islam n christianity.

right religions: all forms of traditional Pagan religions of the people. All Pagan religions are the same in the essence & one cannot convert to them. you just need to be born into a people that follow/followed it. Pagan religions do not have human founders lyk islam/christianity. they r d religion of the people, the living creatures and God.

Paganism and atheism are on the exact opposite ends of each other. one believes in many Gods while one does not believe in God, yet, both are indispensible to each other, since every force has an opposite counter-force. It is therefore even possible to be both at the same time. also, both dont practice terrorism.

Paganism does not distinguish between good or bad. It only distinguishes between right or wrong.

well said. i just dont get this. this is madness. lyk a disease. 

[b]true we need religion. without the fear of God and without morals, the crime rate will rise, people will be indisciplined, they will vist prostitues more often, steal, drugs, etc.[/b]all we need are right religions and the right people to propagate them.

Look, I know a little  about different cultures and their superstitions, all Im saying is that christianity wasn't the first instance of monotheism and some of the Ancient Americans fought battles soley to capture people that they will then sacrifice to their gods.  This is not a defense of christianity, I know how ridiculous and murderous the thing is.

Aten and Ahura Mazda are two monotheist gods that came before jehovah. The cult of Aten in ancient Egypt and Zoroastrianism in Persia.

And what the hell do you mean "abrahamic like you people". Do you think Im one of these black people who trace their lineage through jewish mythology? I'm not abrahamic in no way, shape or form. That's like calling me a nigger or that I'm so ignorant of history that I will call myself the descendant of some fairy tale jew!!!

You don't need god or religion to be good. If you choose to live in a society based on reasonable laws all you have to do is abide by those laws. Gods or religion do not stop people from r@ping, pillaging, stealing, lying, cheating, or killing, the fear of being caught by the authorities and paying the price for your crimes is what stop them.  When has any god stopped anything from happening? Including your pagan gods?  People willdo what makes them happy regardless of gods, religions or laws so the only thing that can change black communities is education especially history and science. 

I don't need a god or a religion to stop me from robbing, killing or visiting a prostitut_s but i dont see gods or religion stopping Al Qaeda from murdering people, Eddie long from being biseuxal, boko haram insisting that ignorance is the only unforbidden way of life, prosperity preachers robbing gullible black people daily, the pope defending craddle-robbers, priests Being Intimate with vulnerable children, muslims finding buddhists, or ritual killings.

An educated populace leads to the decline of all this vices. Also what you call vice might now be a vice to another man.
I don't see how prostitut_s are hindering any society's progress, if an adult willingly offers to pay for sex and another adult accepts, I don't think that's a third party's business.  Also, an enlightened and progressive society will lead to a decline in prostitution beacause what educated woman would want to sell her body?  Most people think marijuana is a vice, i think they need to smoke and chill the f_ck out.

As for the claim that paganism is indispensable to atheism, what kind of peyote are you smoking?

claremont:

What religion is the "right" religion, and which is the "wrong" religion? I hope you are not talking about any of the abrahamic faiths whose adherents believe they alone are the only ones chosen to go to heaven, while all non-adherents will go to hell.
The evil I am specific on is terrorism, wars, genocide, bigotry e.t.c. and they can all be narrowed down to religion. I am yet to see a terrorist who is an atheist.

My bad. Maybe I'll be the first atheist terrorist and kidnap some "Men of God" and ask god to come ransom them and if he doesn't show up, they will need an "Atmosphere for Miracles" after what I do to them.

Ahhhhhh, just a fanstasy!

Society without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment

Before he began his recent travels, it seemed to Phil Zuckerman as if humans all over the globe were getting religion--praising deities, performing holy rites, and soberly defending the world from sin. But most residents of Denmark and Sweden, he found, don't worship any god at all, don't pray, and don't give much credence to religious dogma of any kind. Instead of being bastions of sin and corruption, however, as the Christian Right has suggested a godless society would be, these countries are filled with residents who score at the very top of the happiness index and enjoy their healthy societies, which boast some of the lowest rates of violent crime in the world (along with some of the lowest levels of corruption), excellent educational systems, strong economies, well-supported arts, free health care, egalitarian social policies, outstanding bike paths, and great beer.

Zuckerman formally interviewed nearly 150 Danes and Swedes of all ages and educational backgrounds over the course of fourteen months, beginning in 2005. He was particularly interested in the worldviews of people who live their lives without religious orientation. How do they think about and cope with death? Are they worried about an afterlife? What he found is that nearly all of his interviewees live their lives without much fear of the Grim Reaper or worries about the hereafter. This led him to wonder how and why it is that certain societies are nonreligious in a world that seems to be marked by increasing religiosity. Drawing on prominent sociological theories and his own extensive research, Zuckerman ventures some interesting answers.
This fascinating approach directly counters the claims of outspoken, conservative American Christians who argue that a society without God would be hell on earth. It is crucial, Zuckerman believes, for Americans to know that society without God is not only possible, but it can be quite civil and pleasant.

Personally, looking at this issue from a "christian atheist" point of view, the research couldn't have been more correct. Why oh why do some adherents of the abrahamic faiths tell us that only they will enjoy a mythical heaven, while the rest of us will be in a mythical hell suffering and burning?! What a wicked and sadistic way of thinking!

All evil known to man today can be narrowed down to his passion for a religion. Man has totally subjugated his ability to think for himself to an external force called luck/God/Karma e.t.c. The interesting thing is that the adherents of religion get defensive whenever we ask them to show some form of evidence that this God exists, what's so difficult in showing that the deity you worship really exists?! This is also based on the backdrop that 80% of the bible has been proven never to have happened, hence it is inherently false. Why do some persons passionately pursue a false doctrine even when they know it's false?!

Mtchewww. "Great men" with little brain.
I would have just ignored these posts as one written by a foolish person butjust thought i should make a small statement.
Come to Africa and live in a hut with no hope of knowing where your next meal will come from (not to talk of having the very basics of basic social amenities like clean drinking water) then you will know that there is a God somewhere.

Answering the bolded section, what is the proof that you have a brain in your head? We all can't see it and neither do u. Let you and I see your brain in your hands then i will prove to you that God, who the Christians (not Atheist or so called christian atheist-which is pure confusion) worship.

chiteny:

Mtchewww. "Great men" with little brain.
I would have just ignored these posts as one written by a foolish person butjust thought i should make a small statement.
Come to Africa and live in a hut with no hope of knowing where your next meal will come from (not to talk of having the very basics of basic social amenities like clean drinking water) then you will know that there is a God somewhere.

Answering the bolded section, what is the proof that you have a brain in your head? We all can't see it and neither do u. Let you and I see your brain in your hands then i will prove to you that God, who the Christians (not Atheist or so called christian atheist-which is pure confusion) worship.

Firstly, kindly argue your points logically without resorting to insults and name calling, let's keep this thread insult-free for once in Nairaland.
You said "Come to Africa and live in a hut with no hope of knowing where your next meal will come from", what role does God have to play in providing food and social amenities?! Is that not the responsibility of the government? Should we now call on a God when the government has clearly failed in it's responsibilities? Does God have an army of engineers that goes around fixing roads, building bridges, giving food to those who have prayed for it e.t.c.? If like you claim, that God indeed has a role in providing food to his prayer warriors, then why has he clearly ignored the plight of countries like Somalia and Ethiopia which have been ravaged by famine, or are there not prayer warriors there? Surely, that clearly shows that he dispenses "good" and "evil" at will.

You are asking for proof that humans have brains; surely, you and everyone should know that anatomy has revealed the basic structures of the human body, the proof is in science. On the other hand, where is the evidence that a God exists besides the continuous ranting of the biblical writers who may have been drunk at the time they were writing the bible.

Take it or leave it, the description of God in the bible is that he is jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevent bully. Is that the kind of God people passionately cling to and are proud of?! It therefore explains why the beleivers of this God display the same traits as he displayed, afterall by their works ye shall know them.

chiteny:

Mtchewww. "Great men" with little brain.
I would have just ignored these posts as one written by a foolish person butjust thought i should make a small statement.
Come to Africa and live in a hut with no hope of knowing where your next meal will come from (not to talk of having the very basics of basic social amenities like clean drinking water) then you will know that there is a God somewhere.
Answering the bolded section, what is the proof that you have a brain in your head? We all can't see it and neither do u. Let you and I see your brain in your hands then i will prove to you that God, who the Christians (not Atheist or so called christian atheist-which is pure confusion) worship.

So the reason that your god exists is that there are people who are impoverished, desperate and the only way they cope with life is their belief in god.   Well, if they believe in god and their living conditions continue to be abysmal, doesn't that prove our point that their god doesn't exist; and if he does he obvioulsy doesn't care about millions of Africans. Just take a good look at the continent! lmao You alsoproved the OPs point because the societies that don't have a need for god are progressive and the citizens are relatively safe and comfortable compared to the black people that throng to churches all the time looking for miracles.

In Nigeria, people pray for electricity and thank god when they have it, in the west they expect electricity and don't pray for it and when there's an unexplained outage, the electricity company has to answer for it.  Gods do not have anything to do with it, just prudent planning for infrastructure and relatively good governance.

The proof that there is a brain in your head is that you are typing on this forum and making a point, regardless of how ignorant your point is. You really can't be serious if you think this is a good ananlogy. lol, You can get proof that brains exist even though you can't see it without the aid of scientific equipment or killing someone and opening the skull but what proof can you provide that you have a soul?

Firstly, kindly argue your points logically without resorting to insults and name calling, let's keep this thread insult-free for once in Nairaland.
You said "Come to Africa and live in a hut with no hope of knowing where your next meal will come from", what role does God have to play in providing food and social amenities?! Is that not the responsibility of the government? Should we now call on a God when the government has clearly failed in it's responsibilities? Does God have an army of engineers that goes around fixing roads, building bridges, giving food to those who have prayed for it e.t.c.? If like you claim, that God indeed has a role in providing food to his prayer warriors, then why has he clearly ignored the plight of countries like Somalia and Ethiopia which have been ravaged by famine, or are there not prayer warriors there? Surely, that clearly shows that he dispenses "good" and "evil" at will.

You are asking for proof that humans have brains; surely, you and everyone should know that anatomy has revealed the basic structures of the human body, the proof is in science. On the other hand, where is the evidence that a God exists besides the continuous ranting of the biblical writers who may have been drunk at the time they were writing the bible.

Take it or leave it, the description of God in the bible is that he is jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevent bully. Is that the kind of God people passionately cling to and are proud of?! It therefore explains why the beleivers of this God display the same traits as he displayed, afterall by their works ye shall know them.

Understand me. God works through people/other things he created and does not necessarily have to come down himself to do things. in your bodily form you will not be able to stand up to God (probably you will not understand this). And i was saying if perhaps your find urself in such a situation without any help from no one including the govt., i guess you will think differently. As the bible (of which u believe not in says) that after men like you have eaten to their fill and make merry, they will forget Him. You have all (maybe almost evrything u want ) available around you, so God is no more important.

I was asking if you have brains. i know from anatomy humans have brains but i doubt yours thats why i would like to see to be sure. please prove me wrong.

The rest of your statments simply shows your very shallow understanding of the bible and that you don't even know God. Your words are blasphemous to Him and thus i would leave you to His judgement.

You have your will to believe/accept Him or not to. He (God) does not force you against your will. But on the very moment you and I leave this bodily form to the life beyond (if you even believe there is one), we will then know the conclusion of this whole arguments.

God Speed.

God/Religion has no role to play in an individual's success/failure in life, relationships, choices, e.t.c. Those are decisions that an individual makes himself, attributing these decisions to a God translates to engaging in defeatism. The richest and most successful people in the world today do not believe in a God, but rather, they have an overwhelming belief in themselves and their ability to surmount all odds.

I weep when I see Africans praying for a wife/husband, job, money, cars, food e.t.c.; if God indeed has a role to play in providing these items, then how come he hasn't provided them for everyone who prays for them, but rather chooses to give to a select few. The buck stops on us as human beings to define our destiny, believing in the bible is no different from believing in "tales by moonlight" stories.

Martian:

Look, I know a little  about different cultures and their superstitions, all Im saying is that christianity wasn't the first instance of monotheism and some of the Ancient Americans fought battles soley to capture people that they will then sacrifice to their gods.  This is not a defense of christianity, I know how ridiculous and murderous the thing is.

Aten and Ahura Mazda are two monotheist gods that came before jehovah. The cult of Aten in ancient Egypt and Zoroastrianism in Persia.

And what the hell do you mean "abrahamic like you people". Do you think Im one of these black people who trace their lineage through jewish mythology? I'm not abrahamic in no way, shape or form. That's like calling me a nigger or that I'm so ignorant of history that I will call myself the descendant of some fairy tale jew!!!

You don't need god or religion to be good. If you choose to live in a society based on reasonable laws all you have to do is abide by those laws. Gods or religion do not stop people from r@ping, pillaging, stealing, lying, cheating, or killing, the fear of being caught by the authorities and paying the price for your crimes is what stop them.  When has any god stopped anything from happening? Including your pagan gods?  People willdo what makes them happy regardless of gods, religions or laws so the only thing that can change black communities is education especially history and science. 

I don't need a god or a religion to stop me from robbing, killing or visiting a prostitut_s but i dont see gods or religion stopping Al Qaeda from murdering people, Eddie long from being biseuxal, boko haram insisting that ignorance is the only unforbidden way of life, prosperity preachers robbing gullible black people daily, the pope defending craddle-robbers, priests Being Intimate with vulnerable children, muslims finding buddhists, or ritual killings.

An educated populace leads to the decline of all this vices. Also what you call vice might now be a vice to another man.
I don't see how prostitut_s are hindering any society's progress, if an adult willingly offers to pay for sex and another adult accepts, I don't think that's a third party's business.  Also, an enlightened and progressive society will lead to a decline in prostitution beacause what educated woman would want to sell her body?  Most people think marijuana is a vice, i think they need to smoke and chill the f_ck out.

As for the claim that paganism is indispensable to atheism, what kind of peyote are you smoking?

i thoroughly disagree. The ancient native-American lyk the Maya and Inca fought battles, it is true, and sacrificed some captives to the Gods. That was the norm all over the world back then. Male war captives were usually executed because they could pose a serious threat to the Empire in the future.How then is this very dfferent from the usual The only difference here is that instead of normally executing the captives, they were executed on Gods altar. nothing unusual really. This was nothing religious, more lyk a way of not wasting the war captives.

again here we go, the monotheism of Aten and Ahura Mazda were completely different. these were not fanatical, convert-seeking religions. In fact they were also loosely Pagan. Aten was actually a mix of the two Egyptian Gods, Ra and Horus. Aten was also called RaHorus and was represented by the Sun disk. The worship of Aten was not monotheism, it was monolatry, which is the recognition of the existence of many gods, but with the consistent worship of only one deity.. The Pharaoh Akhenaten did not actively deny the existence of other gods; he simply refrained from worshipping any but the Aten.

now its the same with Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda is not the only God. In fact he is the supreme deity. BUT, he is worshiped alongside other Gods, such as Indra, Mithra, etc. Zoroastrianism is also loosely Pagan.

Jews are Abrahamic for your kind information. The 3 major Abrahamic religions are islam, christianity and Judaism.

now again there are right and wrong Abrahamic religions. Judaism is right and islam, christianity are wrong.

However lyk Pagan religions, Judaism is solely meant for a certain group of people, i.e., the Hebrew people and their descendants. Thats the reason why they do not go around seeking converts.

There are many instances were the Gods have stopped wrong from happening. However this is a different matter and is only for the people who believe.

its not about being educated or uneducated. even a very rich educated man like a politician can go on the path of corruption because of temptations. whats going to stop that, eh are your laws strong enough to prevent temptations or control consciences ahahahaha!!!!!!! NO.  

for that, YOU NEED RELIGION.

claremont:

The richest and most successful people in the world today do not believe in a God, but rather, they have an overwhelming belief in themselves and their ability to surmount all odds.

However, there are also rich and successful people in this world, who believe in God, and attribute everything to Gods blessings. There are two paths towards success in life. hard work and[b] faith[/b]. The atheists probably took the path of hard work, while the religious peoples took the path of faith. and both r rich n successfull.

PAGAN 9JA:

now again there are right and wrong Abrahamic religions. Judaism is right and islam, christianity are wrong.

However, there are also rich and successful people in this world, who believe in God, and attribute everything to Gods blessings. There are two paths towards success in life. hard work and[b] faith[/b]. The atheists probably took the path of hard work, while the religious peoples took the path of faith. and both r rich n successfull.

What makes Judaism right, and Islam, Christianity wrong?
You said ", religious people took the path of faith", faith in what?

claremont:

God/Religion has no role to play in an individual's success/failure in life, relationships, choices, e.t.c. Those are decisions that an individual makes himself, attributing these decisions to a God translates to engaging in defeatism. The richest and most successful people in the world today do not believe in a God, but rather, they have an overwhelming belief in themselves and their ability to surmount all odds.

Only you generate the power, you decide what you do with your life. You are fool if you think you're helpless, you control what you do with your life - Teddy Pendergrass

I weep when I see Africans praying for a wife/husband, job, money, cars, food e.t.c.; if God indeed has a role to play in providing these items, then how come he hasn't provided them for everyone who prays for them, but rather chooses to give to a select few. The buck stops on us as human beings to define our destiny, believing in the bible is no different from believing in "tales by moonlight" stories.

You'll be weeping for eternity mate, a lot of people still need to believe in the miraculous to function fully

naijababe:

Only you generate the power, you decide what you do with your life. You are fool if you think you're helpless, you control what you do with your life - Teddy Pendergrass

You'll be weeping for eternity mate, a lot of people still need to believe in the miraculous to function fully

I am sorry if I fail to understand what your point is, or were you stand on this issue.

Forgive me, I am lazy poster . I agree with you, religion followed by capitalism are the two greatest evils that befell man.

I only wish Allah/Jehovah/Yahweh will take his followers to heaven already so that the rest of us can enjoy earth as we should

naijababe:

Forgive me, I am lazy poster . I agree with you, religion followed by capitalism are the two greatest evils that befell man.

I only wish Allah/Jehovah/Yahweh will take his followers to heaven already so that the rest of us can enjoy earth as we should

Good stuff! I was beginning to think you were party to my religious brethren who go around ranting like mad elves!

claremont:

What makes Judaism right, and Islam, Christianity wrong?

why ofcourse, is Judaism violent   does it practice(d) terrorism, hard-core fanticsm, religious dogma, conversions/forced conversions, imposition, slavery,colonialism, etc 
hardly.

all this was and in sum cases is being done by islam n christianity.

also when you buy an expenisve bag, lyk say, an original Gucci bag, will it work better than the fake duplicate Chinese Gucci bag you brought from a local store NO  the duplicate will easily tear whereas the original stays strong.

Its the same here with religion. Judaism is the original stuff and it propagates religion in a better, civil and moral way, whereas islam n christianity are fake, really-bad copies.

claremont:

You said ", religious people took the path of faith", faith in what?

Faith in God ofcourse!!!!! in this case it does not matter what God they invoked because their reason was not religous or selfish. They just needed strength to work hard for their business.

PAGAN 9JA:

i thoroughly disagree. The ancient native-American lyk the Maya and Inca fought battles, it is true, and sacrificed some captives to the Gods. That was the norm all over the world back then. Male war captives were usually executed because they could pose a serious threat to the Empire in the future.How then is this very dfferent from the usual The only difference here is that instead of normally executing the captives, they were executed on Gods altar. nothing unusual really. This was nothing religious, more lyk a way of not wasting the war captives.
again here we go, the monotheism of Aten and Ahura Mazda were completely different. these were not fanatical, convert-seeking religions. In fact they were also loosely Pagan. Aten was actually a mix of the two Egyptian Gods, Ra and Horus. Aten was also called RaHorus and was represented by the Sun disk. The worship of Aten was not monotheism, it was monolatry, which is the recognition of the existence of many gods, but with the consistent worship of only one deity.. The Pharaoh Akhenaten did not actively deny the existence of other gods; he simply refrained from worshipping any but the Aten.

now its the same with Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda is not the only God. In fact he is the supreme deity. BUT, he is worshiped alongside other Gods, such as Indra, Mithra, etc. Zoroastrianism is also loosely Pagan.

Jews are Abrahamic for your kind information. The 3 major Abrahamic religions are islam, christianity and Judaism.

now again there are right and wrong Abrahamic religions. Judaism is right and islam, christianity are wrong.

However lyk Pagan religions, Judaism is solely meant for a certain group of people, i.e., the Hebrew people and their descendants. Thats the reason why they do not go around seeking converts.

There are many instances were the Gods have stopped wrong from happening. However this is a different matter and is only for the people who believe.

its not about being educated or uneducated. even a very rich educated man like a politician can go on the path of corruption because of temptations. whats going to stop that, eh are your laws strong enough to prevent temptations or control consciences ahahahaha!!!!!!! NO. 

for that, YOU NEED RELIGION.

However, there are also rich and successful people in this world, who believe in God, and attribute everything to Gods blessings. There are two paths towards success in life. hard work and[b] faith[/b]. The atheists probably took the path of hard work, while the religious peoples took the path of faith. and both r rich n successfull.

Oh ok, hope god/gods come down and help you people soon.  The parts you wrote about monotheism that made sense could also be said about christianity with jehovah as the supreme being while belial, the "god" of this world, baphomet etc are the lesser gods and they also have the holy spirit thing and jesus.  And i do know that Zoroastrians do not proselytize etc I also never said Jews are not Abrahamic, I said I AM NOT.

The rest of what you wrote about religion being needed is wrong because we see that everyday the world over. The most religious countries tend to be the most impoverished, underdeveloped and ignorant. The U.S is the exception of a country with a rabid religious majority but the constitution keeps them in check. Humans are going to be humans regardless of religion or gods but I do know that laws deter people from commiting crimes while you have to provide an example of any god doing anything at any point in recorded and reliable history.  The U.S constitution is more powerful than any god and the U.S military is also exponentially more powerful than any god, ask Al qaeda lol. 

It really is all about how educated the populace is and not just a single individual.  An example is Chris Oyakhilome being more educated than most of his members. He can tell the ignorant minnions what to do and how to act and they are not smart enough to analyze whatever he tells them. If you educate the masses sufficiently, then you won't need a god to act as the enforcer because society as a whole would frown on adverse behavior.  Bernie Madoff is an example of an educated person that is corrupt and it wasn't god that meted out his punishment, it was the justice system and he was widely criticized by the masses who are informed.
Compare that to alamasiegha from a few years ago who escaped from house arrest and went and thanked god. so did god help him escape from england or was he just a cunning human who found a way to flee punishment. God didn't deter him from stealing, lying and then thanking him for it,so is god alright with this kind of behavior. Also, they were a good amount of people whom he stole from who "JOINED HIM IN THANKING GOD". If that isn't ignorance, I don't know what is and only religion can do that!

Hell, Im more powerful than all gods combined simply because i actually exist. What do I need to believe in a god for when I have an understanding of the world I live in. Maybe if I lived in a cave, I would believe there are things called god but  I don't and this is the 21st century where information is at my fingertips at all times. Im not scared of death or not existing so I don't need to believe in a heaven. Im not uneducated so I don't think financial miracles happen because I have an understanding of capitalism and financial markets, I don't think medical miracles happen because I can easily find out the causes of diseases and if there are cures. I don't think any natural phenomenon can be atttributed to any god because I try to find out about as much about nature as possible and gods/demons/fairies do not exist in nature. I don't believe in gods because I'm not ignorant, scared of not existing,worried about my survival or superstitious.

Faith (the religious kind) is not the same as hard work and it's not even a virtue like theists will have people believe. All it entails is ignorance and dependabilty on phantoms.