http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/24/my-take-why-evangelicals-should-stop-evangelizing-2/?hpt=hp_c2

My Take: Why evangelicals should stop evangelizing
By Carl Medearis, Special to CNN


Let’s do an exercise. I want you to fill in the blank on what you think you know about me based on what I’m about to tell you. Here goes: Twenty years ago, I became a missionary. My wife and I left our home in Colorado Springs, Colorado to move to Beirut, Lebanon. Our job description was to plant churches and evangelize to Muslims.

Based on what I just said, Carl Medearis is a ______________ .

Depending on your background, the blank may look something like this: Carl Medearis is a,  hero of the Christian faith, a saintly super-man willing to sacrifice the comforts of home in order to share the love of Jesus Christ with those who have never heard the gospel. Or this: Carl Medearis is a,  right-wing extremist who destroys cultures, tears apart families and paves the way for neo-colonialist crusaders to invade, occupy and plunder the resources of local populations.


Quite a range, isn’t it? For one group of people, the words “evangelist” and “missionary” bring to mind pious heroes performing good deeds that are unattainable for the average Christian. For another group, those same words represent just about everything that’s wrong with the world. I understand the confusion. Based on my experiences of living and traveling around the world, I know that religion is often an identity marker that determines people’s access to jobs, resources, civil liberties and political power.


When I lived in Lebanon I saw firsthand how destructive an obsession with religious identity could be. Because of the sectarian nature of Lebanese politics, modern Lebanese history is rife with coups, invasions, civil wars and government shutdowns. When I tell my Christian friends in America that some of the fiercest militias were (and are) Christian, most are shocked. It doesn’t fit the us-versus-them mentality that evangelism fosters, in which we are always the innocent victims and they are always the aggressors. This us-versus-them thinking is odd, given that Jesus was constantly breaking down walls between Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, men and women, sinners and saints. That’s why we have the parable of the Good Samaritan.


Jews in Jesus’ day thought of the Samaritans as the violent heretics, much the same way that Christians think of Muslims today. The idea that a Samaritan could be good was scandalous to first century Jews. Jesus was the master of challenging religious prejudice and breaking down sectarian walls. Why do so many Christians want to rebuild those walls? Even the Apostle Paul insisted that it’s faith in Jesus that matters, not converting to a new religion or a new socio-religious identity. What if evangelicals today, instead of focusing on “evangelizing” and “converting” people, were to begin to think of Jesus not as starting a new religion, but as the central figure of a movement that transcends religious distinctions and identities? Jesus the uniter of humanity, not Jesus the divider. How might that change the way we look at others? This is more than just a semantic difference. When I used to think of myself as a missionary, I was obsessed with converting Muslims (or anybody for that matter) to what I thought of as “Christianity.” I had a set of doctrinal litmus tests that the potential convert had to pass before I would consider them “in” or one of “us.”


Funny thing is, Jesus never said, “Go into the world and convert people to Christianity.” What he said was, “Go and make disciples of all nations.”


Encouraging anyone and everyone to become an apprentice of Jesus, without manipulation, is a more open, dynamic and relational way of helping people who want to become more like Jesus — regardless of their religious identity. Just because I believe that evangelicals should stop evangelizing doesn’t mean that they should to stop speaking of Jesus. I speak of Jesus everywhere I go and with everyone I meet.



As founder and president of a company called International Initiatives, my work is aimed at building relationships among Christian leaders in the West and among Muslim leaders in the Middle East. It may come as a surprise to many Christians that Muslims are generally open to studying the life of Jesus as a model for leadership because they revere him as a prophet. But now that I’m no longer obsessed with converting people to Christianity, I’ve found that talking about Jesus is much easier and far more compelling. I believe that doctrine is important, but it’s not more important than following Jesus. Jesus met people where they were. Instead of trying to figure out who’s “in” and who’s “out,” why don’t we simply invite people to follow Jesus — and let Jesus run his kingdom? Inviting people to love, trust, and follow Jesus is something the world can live with. And since evangelicals like to say that it’s not about religion, but rather a personal relationship with Jesus, perhaps we should practice what we preach.

  I think this is a very thought-provoking piece. Any takers? or leavers?

It's a big mistake , except I'm not getting him right. You cant teach jesus priciples or lifestyle without the jesus life within. Christisnity is not morality. I think you should watch the TBN movie " TIME CHANGER"

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. " (Matthew 10:34-35).
I continue to find it true that there's no way the true gospel can be preached to appease everybody. Yet the gospel MUST be preached."Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. " (Matthew 10:34-35).
I continue to find it true that there's no way the true gospel can be preached to appease everybody. Yet the gospel MUST be preached.

@Joeagbaje; « #1 on: Today at 08:33:55 PM »
[Quote]It's a big mistake , except I'm not getting him right. You cant teach jesus priciples or lifestyle without the jesus life within. Christisnity is not morality. I think you should watch the TBN movie " TIME CHANGER"[/Quote]the issue[s] with christianity are many. for the moment let us focus on Jesus since it is his life within it that you are putting forward.

who is more important in christendom between Jesus or 'apostle' Paul? who is more quoted, who formulated the christian dogma, tenet, morality? who mr fung [sorry Mr. Joeagbaje]? who gave the name Christian, christianity? who mr joeagbaje? i finally stopped remembering the oj case and mr. fung.

you joeagbaje can't impose your idea on Jesus and say that people should not remind you that he has not been here for 2,000 years to reject it and that is the advantage you are using. it is not a saving grace, but a thing punishable starting from the time of the appearance of the angel of death.

trekkie:

let me get this right,
a muslim can remain a muslim as long as he follows the 'leadership principles" of jesus christ
so can a buddhist, taoist, heck even a atheist will go to heaven as long as he follows these principles.
so christ did not have to die all he had to so was hold a seminar, give a motivational speech and hey presto we are all heaven.

Christianity is not obeying some sets of moral codes. It's a pulsating life, (Gods life) in a man. Every religion believes in moral codes . So If it's all about morality. Jesus death was in vain.

It's rather about The life and nature of God. It's not about copying christ "style" but receiving christ life within.

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

If they copy the lifestyle , it hadn't changed anything, it's like a monkey wearing T-shirt, does that make him human?

We have to be careful that we do not fall victim to soundbites. What is meant when we say 'having the life and nature of God'. What does it mean to 'receive christ within'. And how is that different from 'copying christ's style'.

The probelm with religion is that it is very easy to fall into a trap of saying very nice sounding phrases, that do nothing more than help one member of the cult to identify another on the basis of the fact that they use the same phrases.

When it comes to the practical application of religion then we are on to another different kettle of fish entirely.

I fully believe that if you apply the teachings of Jesus to your life then you'll experience changes that go far beyond what religious cult you decide to identify with.

At present we have many people who will scream jesus' name to the high mountain and they have many formulas of sweet things to say and proclaim about him, but to simply apply one actual teaching of Jesus to their lives is an impossibility for them.

What is

Pastor AIO:
.

I fully believe that if you apply the teachings of Jesus to your life then you'll experience changes that go far beyond what religious cult you decide to identify with.

What is the teaching of jesus?

@Sweetnecta

who is more important in christendom between Jesus or 'apostle' Paul?

Obviously Jesus Christ

who is more quoted, who formulated the christian dogma, tenet, morality?

Who do you think ?

Joagbaje:

What is
What is the teaching of jesus?

I cannot believe that you would ask me that. sebi you have bible in your house. Read it.

Preaching the word to all and sundry is a command not an option.

As Peter and the apostles replied to the rulers of the day after a severe beating :

"But Peter and the apostles replied, "We must obey God rather than any human authority." - Acts 5:29

Man in his arrogance thinks he does not need GOD and tries to influence others to reject the truth. In doing his, he is heaping layers of wrath upon himself.

But God knows that in every society, community, family, there will always be those who accept the teachings of JESUS CHRIST and thus of GOD.

Again it is not for mere man, made of dust with a fleeting existence to decide what God should and should not do.

As Paul said to Timothy :

"Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching." - 2 Timothy 4:2

Pastor AIO:

I cannot believe that you would ask me that. sebi you have bible in your house. Read it.

No o don't escape it. It is important for you to answer.your answer should help drive a point in. Well the point is if you pick the story of the good Samaritan for example . And teach people . Does that get a man saved. You are simply teaching salvation by works. Why it's important to know what teaching of Jesus you are talking about.

^^^The teaching of Jesus is that which you have said does not apply to Christians; you said it is not "New Testament" and "Jesus did not function in the New Testament" so why are you asking about the teaching of Jesus when it is useless for you?

You can "see your life outside" here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-704762.128.html#msg8695653
and here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-704762.128.html#msg8695815 among several others.

It is very simple: those who obey the teachings of Christ are those who will exhibit the life of Christ and show that even here the Kingdom of God is with them and in them ----- but if you say we are not to obey God or Christ, how can you be in him and how can you really have the life of Christ in you? Bear in mind that I am aware that you are going to spin the "new creature" line ----- the "new creature" thing is not all about the peculiar gnostic spin you want to put on it; it is also about discipleship, followership; obedience to the teachings of Christ ----- these, as enabled by the Spirit, will mark a person out as a new creature, better "new creation". (Edit)

Joagbaje:

No o don't escape it. It is important for you to answer.your answer should help drive a point in. Well the point is if you pick the story of the good Samaritan for example . And teach people . Does that get a man saved. You are simply teaching salvation by works. Why it's important to know what teaching of Jesus you are talking about.

Sorry o! I forgot that you do not think that Jesus' teachings were that important.

@all,
I purposely didn't state an opinion as I was curious to see which direction the thread would go I think at the heart of the article, we must first and clearly define what it means to 'evangelize' - in the biblical context and in the modern context and whether or not these two are the same or overlap in any way. Who wants to take a shot at it? 

Image123:

I continue to find it true that there's no way the true gospel can be preached to appease everybody. Yet the gospel MUST be preached.

From my understanding, the writer is not against preaching or 'evangelizing' per se . . . but moreso about the method, approach, attitude, and even 'goal' of modern-day evangelism.

The slant of the article that appeals to me most is where he talks about how christians today feel a sense of spiritual superiority complex (this I think is true) and tend to hold negative or even antagonistic views of people of other faiths. He contrasts this with Jesus' stories of the good samaritan (how there are godly people in every nation and race), and His constant ripping of the standard 'religious establishment' that had a habit of building walls and assigning rules and demanding people 'convert' or cross over to their way or else be damned.

Infact my take home questions were these: Are christians ¹'evangelizing' with the aim of converting people to 'christianity' (the adherence and following of doctrines and established rules)? or ²rather to 'Jesus Christ' (the man, the God, the lifestyle)?

  or are the two infact inseperable? one and the same? or do we see examples in scriptures to the contrary? What does the bible really say?

Pastor AIO:

We have to be careful that we do not fall victim to soundbites. What is meant when we say 'having the life and nature of God'. What does it mean to 'receive christ within'. And how is that different from 'copying christ's style'.

Gbam left right center . I think Joagbaje & Image kinda hinted at this - and I do agree the author is throwing around quite a few catch phrases without really defining what they are. I like where you took this -

The probelm with religion is that it is very easy to fall into a trap of saying very nice sounding phrases, that do nothing more than help one member of the cult to identify another on the basis of the fact that they use the same phrases.

  And it works both ways. 

When it comes to the practical application of religion then we are on to another different kettle of fish entirely.

I fully believe that if you apply the teachings of Jesus to your life then you'll experience changes that go far beyond what religious cult you decide to identify with.

At present we have many people who will scream jesus' name to the high mountain and they have many formulas of sweet things to say and proclaim about him, but to simply apply one actual teaching of Jesus to their lives is an impossibility for them.

Another gbam for you. And I think at the heart of the gist that may be what the writer is saying - modern christians are evangelizing to convert people to a system - rather than a (systematic) lifestyle. Conversion to a set of doctrines and declaring them justified, minus the practical and absolutely essential application evidenced in a christ-like life. I hope that^ makes some kind of sense . . .

Biblically, the good samaritan seems to me to have been "certified" by no less than Christ, at least concerning the issue of love. Same with the Ethiopian. While I will not go so far as to say the brief stories of them justified them, its also instructive that the "justification" they received did not come with a doctrinal shift - it came on the basis of a lifestyle of "love".

Issue then is - do you need to claim a religion or set of doctrines to have the same justification of God?

@Frosbel; « #8 on: Today at 12:41:50 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta

Quote
who is more important in christendom between Jesus or 'apostle' Paul?


Obviously Jesus Christ


Quote
who is more quoted, who formulated the christian dogma, tenet, morality?


Who do you think ?[/Quote]you are asking me to answer my question to you? i will oblige you by saying Paul. look around it is not Jesus that the majority of you quote when telling us about your religion. obviously, the larger portion of nt was from paul. Jesus said something, 4 people according to the bible recorded him in 4 different ways. what he said last in recording is different in another, both of the same event; crucifixion. which one is correct because both can't be equally correct? what Paul said, preaching his brand of Gospel to the "uncircumcised" is all over the place. he formulated christianity. if i asked what Jesus says about the type of state a woman's head should be in in the the public, church and her freedom to express herself, it will be Paul who had something to say while Jesus was silent on each issue.

this is just a taste of what you need to know. it is Paul, not Jesus who said he is dying for you and you must believe that he died. yet it is this very thing that christianity stands and if you discover otherwise must fall upon.

now, who is more quoted?

again, who is more important to christianity; Jesus or Paul since it will be speech of the same person that is more quoted?

@JeSoul
i think the two are inseparable.@JeSoul
i think the two are inseparable.

.

^^^^^

Pls tell them. Many believe that salvation is by works. The works doesn't come first ,it comes after as a fruit. You don't put the cart before the horse. Salvation is not by works . It is a gift received hrough faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

AIO and enigma s'o ti gbó. Have you gbod me?

trekkie:

explain the bolded please. i don't agree.

Tell me the part of what I said that you don't understand and I will explain it to you.  It is not today that you started to disagree with Jesus.  You have been doing so since, but it seems that you were doing it blindly.  When you are shown that you're practicing the opposite of Jesus' teaching then we'll see whether you want to continue disagreeing with Jesus with you eyes wide open. 

24“Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. 26But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.”

And just before he says that, he says:

21“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

Joagbaje:

^^^^^

Pls tell them. Many  believe that salvation is by works. The works doesn't come first ,it  comes after as a fruit. You don't put the cart before the horse. Salvation is not by works  . It is a gift received hrough faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

AIO and enigma s'o ti gbó. Have you gbod me?

Please, Mr. Joe Agbaje,  correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we were discussing the teachings of Jesus.  I said that whosoever applies them to his life will experience results that transcend whichever religious cult you belong to. You asked me what are the teachings of Jesus.  Now, I fully appreciate that you are unaware of Jesus' teachings as you ignore them completely.  I would really love for you to take some time out of you bible study, and ROR studies, to just read and meditate on the teachings of Jesus found in the Gospels.  I don't want to spoonfeed you with this information.  I would love you to go and get your bible and study and research for yourself. 

But the matter come pass matter when to refute my insistence on the teachings of Jesus all you can do is quote ephesians.  We are talking about Jesus.  When did Jesus say any of that?  Or, where in any of Jesus' teachings do we find anything that tallies with that?  Show me, and then we can start to discuss Jesus' ministry.

trekkie:
that's what christ talked about when he spoke about the weeds growing among the wheat. look what is the purpose of evangelism?

What do you think of the part of the OP article that says:

Funny thing is, Jesus never said, “Go into the world and convert people to Christianity.” What he said was, “Go and make disciples of all nations.”

What does discipleship mean to you? Isn't a disciple someone who is undergoing a discipline? What would that discipline be in context of Jesus' teachings.

You seem quite sure that when Jesus says that weeds grow amongst the wheat he is talking about non christians being far better behaved than christians. I don't get how you arrived at that conclusion. Could you break it down for me, please?

Please, Mr. Joe Agbaje,  correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we were discussing the teachings of Jesus.  I said that whosoever applies them to his life will experience results that transcend whichever cult or religion you belong to. You asked me what are the teachings of Jesus

Jesus taught many things on many topics . Which one are you referring to. What you guys are saying is that a man does not have to be born again or be a christian so long as he copies Jesus teaching or so. I want to know which particular teaching you're referring to. I would want to know your concept of salvation.

Your response seems like escape from committing yourself to stand for your belief.

Joagbaje:

Jesus taught many things on many topics . Which one are you referring to. What you guys are saying is that a man does not have to be born again or be a christian so long as he copies Jesus teaching or so. I want to know which particular teaching you're referring to. I would want to know your concept of salvation.

Your response seems like escape from committing yourself to stand for your belief.

I'm not escaping anything. The need to be born again is Jesus' own teaching in John, not Ephesians.

I'm not referring to any particular teaching of Jesus but the entire teachings of Jesus. His message.

I said if you apply his teaching[b]S[/b]. You are the one that seems to understand one particular teaching that I must be referring to.

While we are on the teachings of Jesus, could you please reaffirm your position that the teachingS of Jesus do not apply to 'christians' such as yourself. Just so we know that you are committed 'to stand for your belief'.

Pastor AIO:

While we are on the teachings of Jesus, could you please reaffirm your position that the teachingS of Jesus do not apply to 'christians' such as yourself. Just so we know that you are committed 'to stand for your belief'.

The teachings of Jesus apply to Christians.Also There are teachings under the law that applies to Christians as well , I have often said that the teachings based on principles in God applies to all ,beyond dispensations. But at the same time we should understand that it is not everything Jesus said that is applicable to the church. Because some issues he dealth with were for a people under the law. Besides the new testament hadn't come yet. We have to know who is being addressed on a particular issue.

Joagbaje:

The teachings of Jesus apply to Christians.Also There are teachings under the law that applies to Christians as well , I have often said that the teachings based on principles in God applies to all ,beyond dispensations. But at the same time we should understand that it is not everything Jesus said that is applicable to the church. Because some issues he dealth with were for a people under the law. Besides the new testament hadn't come yet. We have to know who is being addressed on a particular issue.

Can you give me some examples of things that Jesus taught that do not apply to the church? 

What is the criteria for determining whether it can apply to the church or whether it can't.

nuclearboy:

Biblically, the good samaritan seems to me to have been "certified" by no less than Christ, at least concerning the issue of love. Same with the Ethiopian. While I will not go so far as to say the brief stories of them justified them, its also instructive that the "justification" they received did not come with a doctrinal shift - it came on the basis of a lifestyle of "love".
Issue then is - do you need to claim a religion or set of doctrines to have the same justification of God?

. . . and when Jesus distills the entire commandments and whole duty of man into just "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself", it makes it even more impressive and one has to ask how 'important' anything else is in the grand scheme of things.

@Joagbaje & PastorAIO,
   I am enjoying your conversation very much

Image123:

@JeSoul
i think the two are inseparable.

I do agree they may indeed be inseperable - but perhaps not on the same level of importance in the big picture. I'd like to see more thoughts from anyone, I don't want to talk too much . . .

JeSoul:


Infact my take home questions were these: Are christians ¹'evangelizing' with the aim of converting people to 'christianity' (the adherence and following of doctrines and established rules)? or ²rather to 'Jesus Christ' (the man, the God, the lifestyle)?

  or are the two infact inseperable? one and the same? or do we see examples in scriptures to the contrary? What does the bible really say?

I believe both are insepreable as well. But unfortunatly converting to christianity these days has come to mean attending a 'this church' every sunday and doing what the church says. Nobody really cares how ur life influences those around you.

trekkie:

explain the bolded please. i don't agree. true there are a lot of people out there who are far better behaved than many who profess the faith ; that's what christ talked about when he spoke about the weeds growing among the wheat. look what is the purpose of evangelism? for folks to
(1) believe that christ is the son of God,
(2) believe that he came to die for them,
(3) repent of sins and be forgiven by God
(4) and come under the covering of the blood of jesus and THEN begin to apply his teachings in their new way of life.
if you apply the teachings of christ to your life without fulfilling the first three conditions,
there is much more to applying the teachings of christ than just human decision.

my question about this is if i believe 1, 2, 3 and 4 , will applying Jesus' teachings come automatilcally?

livin:

I believe both are insepreable as well. But unfortunatly converting to christianity these days has come to mean attending a 'this church' every sunday and doing what the church says. Nobody really cares how your life influences those around you.

Infact I salute you beyond salute. This is at the heart of the matter right here.

Biblical conversion (Examples from Jesus stories, apostles etc) vs. modern-day conversion - are they really the same thing?

I wonder why religion has to be this complicated.

One would have thought, just believe and hold on to your faith whilst respecting other people's faith as you would expect them to respect yours.

Man, just has a way of complicating simple things. Hence, they differ in some many aspects regarding the same faith whilst trying to prove the illegitimacy of another faith.

Man is confused and hypocritical. Man created the idea of dogmatic religion.

Faith is of the mind and it's beholder is it's creator.

-sighs-