Our system is best described as Anarchism.

That would be replacing one monster for the next monster. Communism is Godless. believes that society advances only via conflicts,   It is an all round evil.

shotster50:

That would be replacing one monster for the next monster. Communism is Godless. believes that society only advances only via conflicts,   It is an all round evil.

thats facism.

. . .i wish i had made this topic "Nigerian* style communism: why not" because i think people are misunderstanding what i'm trying to get at.

[size=5pt]*like Chinese communism, or cuban communism. a liberal flexible interpretation that fits a particular society.[/size]

pleep:

thats facism.

. . .i wish i had made this topic "Nigerian* style communism: why not" because i think people are misunderstanding what i'm trying to get at.

[size=5pt]*like Chinese communism, or cuban communism. a liberal flexible interpretation that fits a particular society.[/size]

If Nigerian styled capitalism is not working, Nigerian styled communism will definitely not work. No one who have tasted capitalism will want to go for communism. They may favour it initially because they are disadvantaged, but as their economic status increases they will prefer capitalism.

All animals are equal but some are more equal than others (apology to George Orwell). That pretty much sums up communism and its utopian classless society. A society cannot be classless unless there is[b] forced equalization[/b] of everyone in that society (read up on the Khmer Rouge atrocities in Cambodia and Chairman Mao's bloody takeover in China where tens of millions were murdered). Is that what we want for Nigeria?

There is no reason a medical doctor has to live equally with a bricklayer as their abilities are different. When you confiscate the reward of someone's labor and effort because you are trying to equalize everyone, you kill the private initiative and enterprise of the citizens of that society and the society becomes worse off as nobody has an incentive to be productive.

Trying communism in Nigeria is akin to replicating the stranglehold of PHCN, Nitel, NNPC and all the inefficiency and corruption they represent in every aspect of life in Nigeria. In a communist country, the government is god.

logica:

Our system is best described as Anarchism.

We would be more fortunate if that were the case. No Kleptocracy is a much better descriptor.

francis247:

No country has fully achieved socialism let alone its highest state, communism. The society has & shall evolve from communalism to slavery to feudalism to capitalism to socialism and to communalism. Nigeria is yet to fully achieve feudalism (according to critics) let alone capitalism as we are yet to manufacture from start to finnish that which is needed to develop our economy. Nigeria, though better than most of its counterparts, is gradually underdeveloping. Our economy depends on buying and selling. Crude oil is exported, the proceeds are used to import 'the already manufactured' by capitalists nations; agriculture is dying, we are still importing rice, untill mechanized farming is given the necessary boost, unemployment rate reduced, (recent report released shows that about 100,000 Nigerians apply for visa to america weekly, not to mention other western countries; while they are developing we are underdeveloping) we'll remain in the realm of feudalism (farming with hoes and cutlass, eating from hand to mouth) far from capitalism let alone socialism, then communism.

we already passed the feudal stage( the Alaafins, Obas, Sultans and other feudal landowners with large armies). We are now firmly in the capitalist phase albeit a largely government-dependent capitalist economy/democracy.

Idehn:

We would be more fortunate if that were the case. No Kleptocracy is a much better descriptor.

You are mixing up government ideology with economic ideology. Kleptocracy is the is the former Anarchism is the latter (we are discussing the latter here).

pleep:

thats facism.

. . .i wish i had made this topic "Nigerian* style communism: why not" because i think people are misunderstanding what i'm trying to get at.

[size=5pt]*like Chinese communism, or cuban communism. a liberal flexible interpretation that fits a particular society.[/size]

No thats communism all right.

shotster50:

No thats communism all right.

LOL. No, that's ignorance. UK and US propaganda have taught you well.

logica:

LOL. No, that's ignorance. UK and US propaganda have taught you well.

Typical marxist chant. Whats new?

shotster50:

Typical marxist chant. Whats new?

Actually a bit more than that. Indeed your ignorance is not new, since you cannot tell the difference between Communism and Fascism. Communism, Fascism, Anarchism, Socialism. . .do you even know the difference?

Have so many so called "Communist" states been evil? No doubt. But they have not been any more evil than the bastions of "Capitalism" like the United States; they have only invested less in a propaganda machine (which is still reverberating and mouthed by the likes of you long after the Cold War).

No sensei whats the dfference?

Fascism promotes violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[7] It views conflict as a fact of life that is responsible for all human progress.[8] It exalts militarism as providing positive transformation in society, in providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character, and creating national comradeship through military service.[9] Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents, or to overthrow a political system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

How is this similar to Communism?

logica:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

How is this similar to Communism?

And going by logic, I suppose Communism promotes unity, democracy, freedom of beliefs, and peace ?

this what your so cal communism left http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14543514
if, you can not understand it reply me, FACTS
ITS ALL ABOUT POWER AND GREED !!

demoheart:

this what your so cal communism left http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14543514
if, you can not understand it reply me, FACTS
ITS ALL ABOUT POWER AND GREED !!

Get ready to be labelled ignorant and an agent of the US and UK false indoctrination,

shotster50:

And going by logic, I suppose Communism promotes unity, democracy, freedom of beliefs, and peace ?

And how does Capitalism promote those? You cannot blame the implementation on the actual ideology itself.

logica:

And how does Capitalism promote those? You cannot blame the implementation on the actual ideology itself.

You might as well not bother if this is going to be your reply. Who takes the blame? Capitalists? Fact is Communism is really inpracticable as far as its ideology goes anyway,
Are you going to call me ignorant again?

Logica is right, you have been brainwashed. just like so many other people who recieved western education.

does it not occur to you that the U.S and NATO had national security interests in portraying communism in the worst possible light?
Behind the scenes many western governments have "communist like" programs. such as french state owned companies like Areva the multinational that mines Uranium, or the American postal service.

in short, western governments are willing to embrace communist principles when it benifits the population, but will always demonize it to developing countries.

me thinks its all about the peeps running these systems, cos it just wont run itself but its at the mercy of the few elites at the top

The unanswered question: if communism is so good, why hasnt it worked elsewhere/anywhere?

The government and people of nigeria should simply focus on making laws that make people's lives happier

kodewrita:

The unanswered question: if communism is so good, why hasnt it worked elsewhere/anywhere?

And what do you think happened in China? What do you think is going on in Scandinavian countries? Did you even read previous posts? It seems people are not aware that what goes on in Scandinavia with all of the welfare benefits are Communist/Socialists ideals. This even applies to the UK. Don't believe the hype.

The fact is, Communism failed in the USSR because the government was particularly vicious against its own people, and they also got drawn into a competition with the USA leading to unnecessary spending on weapons and other "Super Power" toys. Massive waste.

@shortster50
Get ready to be labelled ignorant and an agent of the US and UK false indoctrination,

Am living in ukraine with my two kids nd ukrainian wife !
have been living here for the past 10years so, i guess you feel my drift??

Communism I think would suit our docile nature.
At least it obligates the government to think about the welfare of every Nigerian and not just a few elites.

logica:

And what do you think happened in China? What do you think is going on in Scandinavian countries? Did you even read previous posts? It seems people are not aware that what goes on in Scandinavia with all of the welfare benefits are Communist/Socialists ideals. This even applies to the UK. Don't believe the hype.

The fact is, Communism failed in the USSR because the government was particularly vicious against its own people, and they also got drawn into a competition with the USA leading to unnecessary spending on weapons and other "Super Power" toys. Massive waste.

what happened in china was that they gave up and allowed private enterprise (anathema to communism). whats happening in scandinavia is that they practise a capitalist system with a mix of welfarism thrown in ( high taxation (up to 50% in sweden) with government owned common services)). But they still allow private enterprise and they dont expect the government to do all. The UK is not on this list. yes they are welfarist too but its poorly implemented.

Irrespective of the ideology implemented, our corrupt political class would still steal us blind.

Besides I see both 70's era capitalism and communism as necessary stages towards greater economic thought. They served their purpose then but its abundantly clear that a completely centrally planned economy doesnt work and a completely chaos-driven capitalist system is not attractive either. the solution is somewhere in the middle.

kodewrita:

what happened in china was that they gave up and allowed private enterprise (anathema to communism). whats happening in scandinavia is that they practise a capitalist system with a mix of welfarism thrown in ( high taxation (up to 50% in sweden) with government owned common services)).

Before we go further, do you know the difference and relationship between Socialism and Communism?

kodewrita:

The unanswered question: if communism is so good, why hasnt it worked elsewhere/anywhere?

The government and people of nigeria should simply focus on making laws that make people's lives happier

Let me say again, this is not about pure communism. Why is that when we talk about capitalism we bring up highly regulated liberal capitalism (like the U.S) but when communism is brought up we take it to the extreme?

There are no pure capitalsim nations, they have failed just like the communist ones did. Remember the great depression? that was caused by pure capitalism.

Places where liberal comunism has succeded are China, and the best example Cuba. You may think that Cuba is an awefull place but compare it to the rest of latin america the cubans live much better. The standard of living, and healthcare is better, the education and life expectancy is higher etc.

Why is China doing so much better than india? The answer is communism. India's democracy has bogged it down, While China's one party state has accelerated growth because they are able to make things happen without senseless beurocracy.

Nigeria is an example of where capitalsim is failing, we need to stop senselesly coping what people are doing in the west because our circumstances are too different. NIGERIA IS A RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY, most of our money comes from selling oil not the 'incentive' of the private sector, so redistrubing that wealth (not in the form of handouts) would improve the life on Nigerians thats a fact.
Once average ppl have access to money they can break the cycle of poverty and begin building bussinesses and creating jobs.

Why not? Because it won't work. Not to sound pedantic but have you actually thought out what the implementation process would be?

1.The first flaw in the post is the assumption that any system of governance works without failings. Communism IS indeed evil,whilst on paper it sounds Utopian, in practise it is anything but. The basic tenet of Communism is wealth equalisation which can only be achieved by redistribution.

2.I assume your post is a description of something you "think" would improve the lot of everyone. This brings me back to the question of "implementation".

3.To implement a Communist system you would first need to seize any privately owned sizeable asset from the owners. Forgeting the stressed to death point of it removing incentive for innovation and economic productivity,how is it fair? You would in effect be robbing and criminalizing hard working achievers.

4.Something else you need to consider is how Communism is always abused when and wherever it is implemented. Have you asked yourself who does the so called redistribution of wealth Have you also stopped to consider the dictatorial and tyrannical laws that are always enacted to facilitate Communism

The most important point to remember is that contrary to popularly held beliefs, all men are NOT created equal!!! To treat everyone equal would mean demoting the hard working and talented whilst elevating the lazy and unproductive. This is a cold fact of life.

it seems to me, that people are not debating with me, but rather debating against communism. like i said earlier[b] i[/b] am not advocating pure communism. Does it not occur to you guys that when stalin and lenin etc siezed private property and tried to equalize wealth, communism was in its early stages? it has matured since then into what we see in China, Cuba and some of the socialist countries. Communist ideals have been tempered with capitalism, much like capitalism in the U.S has been tempered with "communist" ideals like medicare.

1.The first flaw in the post is the assumption that any system of governance works without failings. Communism IS indeed evil,whilst on paper it sounds Utopian, in practise it is anything but. The basic tenet of Communism is wealth equalisation which can only be achieved by redistribution.

i hope you know that income disparity is the best indicator of the societal health of a country. . .

3.To implement a Communist system you would first need to seize any privately owned sizeable asset from the owners. Forgeting the stressed to death point of it removing incentive for innovation and economic productivity,how is it fair? You would in effect be robbing and criminalizing hard working achievers.

so China is "criminalizing hard working achevers"

4.Something else you need to consider is how Communism is always abused when and wherever it is implemented. Have you asked yourself who does the so called redistribution of wealth Have you also stopped to consider the dictatorial and tyrannical laws that are always enacted to facilitate Communism

you prefer jungle justice? And you need to consider how capitalism is always abused. Think about the 1930's depression, the 1981 reccesion the 2007 reccesion the SAP that ruined the entire economy of a continent, the failing Euro-zone, Fiat currency, debt etc. . .

The most important point to remember is that contrary to popularly held beliefs, all men are NOT created equal!!! To treat everyone equal would mean demoting the hard working and talented whilst elevating the lazy and unproductive. This is a cold fact of life.

huh, that sounds a lot like Nigeria were the lazy and unproductive are the elite who govern the country. while the hard working are demoted to street urchins.

like i said earlier, capitalism is a system in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.* We simply cannot afford that in Africa because they are already people on the brink of hunger. Do you guys know how many young Nigerians have ideas that can create jobs and build up this country, but are held back by lack of money?

*[size=5pt]believe it or not this is not because rich people are somehow 'better' than poor people[/size]