modernized idolatry? Sounds like Catholicism to me.

I-man:

It can be queried but in such a query,an alternative explanation should be given as to the origin of Catholicism.It is not enough to say that the Church has nothing to do with the Early Church.One has to then explain how the Catholic Church came into existence and what happened to the "Biblical Church" since both aren't the same.

I don't read Catholicism in the Bible. Since you guys are convinced that it is in the Bible and actually began with the Apostles, I'd kindly request that you show the same. How the Catholic Church came into existence when infact we read something else in the Bible is what you guys have to explain.

I-man:

You have told me what the Catholic Church isn't-You haven't told me what the Church is.

I stated with this: the Church in the Bible is NOT built on the Papacy system.

That's where I started from. I'd like you to show me that the Papacy is in the Bible among the Apostles.

@I-man

Some believers where deceived while some fled to caves to hold fellowships there. The pope of them commanded that the Bible should not be allow in public, that its a sacred book that should be read by pope or any one appointed by pope alone. This was done by the pope just to keep the truth away from the people that salvation is free. The Catholic had brain washed the people that the pope has power to give salvation and forgive sin. When you pay big to the church you get salvation from the pope and if you commit sine you can confess to the pope and your sins are said to be forgiven. On the contrary the Bible said that only through Jesus salvation can be achieved.

Till today Roma Catholics still go for confessions every Saturday, just for the Father or the priest to pronounce forgiveness on them and they are satisfy "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness

You do realise that the current "church" got most of it's inspiration from the catholic church, and is still deeply related to it, ?

we'll come to see indeed that the idea that Catholicism began among the Apostles is not true.

SO THEN WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF HOW THE CHURCH BEGAN ?

Supposing one says that trans-Atlantic slavery began with the Arabs.Another disputes that,won't you expect the disputing person to offer an alternative explanation of how trans-Atlantic slavery began ?

That is what I have been waiting for literally years for some explanation.I keep being told that the Catholic historical version is not true but no alternative version is offered.

locoman:

@I-man
Some believers where deceived while some[b] fled to caves[/b] to hold fellowships there.

So the early "Biblical Church" dey for caves?

I-man:

So what happened to the Biblical Church after that? Is it now found in Zoe Ministry,Redeemed,Anglican,Mormon.Protestantism broke out of the Catholic Church,why form new churches when they could have simply joined the "Biblical Church"?

Protestantism emerged as a result of the Roman Catholic Church not adhering to the Bible that it claims it gave us.

That other Churches emerged does not mean that they were severed from the Body of Christ. The Bible the RCC claims it gave us clearly states that there is ONE Body (Eph. 4:4). However, while the Catholic Church has arrogated that verse to herself and claimed that other churches are false, the RCC has not been able to demonstrate their fidelity to the Bible.

pilgrim.1:

Protestantism emerged as a result of the Roman Catholic Church not adhering to the Bible that it claims it gave us.

Didn't Protestantism emerge from the Catholic Church ? Since it emerged from that Church,where was the "Biblical Chruch"?

pilgrim.1:

Protestantism emerged as a result of the Roman Catholic Church not adhering to the Bible that it claims it gave us.

That other Churches emerged does not mean that they were severed from the Body of Christ. The Bible the RCC claims it gave us clearly states that there is ONE Body (Eph. 4:4). However, while the Catholic Church has arrogated that verse to herself and claimed that other churches are false, the RCC has not been able to demonstrate their fidelity to the Bible.

I disagree. Protestanism emerged as a result of a catholic King wanting to take another wife, and the pope telling him not to. Enter Stage right, and the anglican church was born.

I-man:

SO THEN WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF HOW THE CHURCH BEGAN ?

Supposing one says that trans-Atlantic slavery began with the Arabs.Another disputes that,won't you expect the disputing person to offer an alternative explanation of how trans-Atlantic slavery began ?

That is what I have been waiting for literally years for some explanation.I keep being told that the Catholic historical version is not true but no alternative version is offered.

As I said, I'll serve this issue piecemeal - no rush or clutter.

The first issue I'd like for you guys to clear is the Papacy system. Please kindly demonstrate that very system from the same Bible you guys claim it gave the world. I've referenced earlier that we've discussed this issue elsewhere; and my position remains the same - there is no system of POPE or Papacy among the early Church.

I-man:

Didn't Protestantism emerge from the Catholic Church ? Since it emerged from that Church,where was the "Biblical Chruch"?

Where did Catholicism emerge from? That is the one issue I want you to demonstrate first with the question of the Papacy.

@I-man.

The believers took a wise decision to flee to a save place for fellowship so as to preserve the truth for us and thank God that the truth eventually gets to us.

Pilgrim - do you realise that the catholic church claim that Paul (or Peter, not sure) was the first Pope. Also remember Paul didn't take a wife,

Banderas:

I disagree. Protestanism emerged as a result of a catholic King wanting to take another wife, and the pope telling him not to. Enter Stage right, and the anglican church was born.

That is the Anglican Church,one vversion of Protestantism- but Protestantism has different historical origins.At least we know their origins but they fail to tell us our own historical origins.

Their slogan is -You are not the early Church and it is up to you to tell who you are.Doesn't make sense

pilgrim.1:

As I said, I'll serve this issue piecemeal - no rush or clutter.

The first issue I'd like for you guys to clear is the Papacy system. Please kindly demonstrate that very system from the same Bible you guys claim it gave the world. I've referenced earlier that we've discussed this issue elsewhere; and my position remains the same - there is no system of POPE or Papacy among the early Church.

Please serve the issue.I await with bated breath.Let me arguendo ,plead ignorance about the history of the Catholic Church.Now,over to you.What is the origin of this Church and what happened to the "Real Church"? Oya,continue serving.

Banderas:

I disagree. Protestanism emerged as a result of a catholic King wanting to take another wife, and the pope telling him not to. Enter Stage right, and the anglican church was born.

That's another theory on its own; and you can disagree as much as you want with what I've stated in a nutshell. It wasn't long ago that it came to limelight that The Catholic Church (or the Pope) no longer swears to the truth of the Bible.

pilgrim.1:

Where did Catholicism emerge from? That is the one issue I want you to demonstrate first with the question of the Papacy.

Chineke!I first asked this question at 11.05 am-4 hrs ago .I now plead ignorance as to the answer.So,in your wisdom and astounding knowledge,tell us how the Church emerged and what happened to the Real Church ?

I will explain to you the genealogy of St Peter to Pope Sylvester – where I derive my real name Sylvester. Be prepared to read. Pilgrim, na wah o, soft pedal o! Is this multiple war heads?

Banderas:

Pilgrim - do you realise that the catholic church claim that Paul (or Peter, not sure) was the first Pope. Also remember Paul didn't take a wife,

I know from the Bible that Paul didn't take a wife (1 Cor. 9:5). But it was rather Peter that the Catholic Church calims was the first Pope. And I've discussed this in the other thread I keep mentioning!

I-man:

That is the Anglican Church,one vversion of Protestantism- but Protestantism has different historical origins.At least we know their origins but they fail to tell us our own historical origins.

I said that because MOST (if not all) of the current protestant movements sprang from the anglican church. You also have those who were formed from Lutheran movements, and those have become distinctly different from what we know as christianity (eg Mormons, latter day saints, etc). 'Twas Anglicans that "wrote" this bible that we currently read (King James et all)

I-man:

Chineke!I first asked this question at 11.05 am-4 hrs ago .I now plead ignorance as to the answer.So,in your wisdom and astounding knowledge,tell us how the Church emerged and what happened to the Real Church ?

Now, just to appease you, the Church began on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2.

I-man, I like to deal with issues in simple terms, rather than scooting off into other issues without first dealing with an existing one.

I've appealed that you guys demonstrate where in the Bible the Papacy system is taught, since pilgrim.1 cannot find it there!

The other issues I point out, I've given reference for them. Wetin happen wey una no fit hold una ground?

Banderas:

Anglicans that "wrote" this bible that we currently read (King James et all)

Oh, I see. . . so the Catholic Church no longer "wrote" the Bible as Catholics have prided themselves before.

BTW, what's the difference between the Bible that the Catholic Church "wrote", and the one that the Anglican Church "wrote"?

I see some oddity here dear Pilgrim. So the church started in Acts 2. Then later on, Paul became a christian. This same Paul wrote most of what modern day christians consider to be the christian faith. What has stopped other people from receiving similar revelations that could (and maybe should) be added to the bible?

Pilgrim, maybe I should say Anglicans translated the current bible. But it was catholic Edit: monks scholars that initially wrote it. All them dead sea scrolls were hidden in caves when monasteries were sacked.

What do you understand word Papacy? We are only referring the Office of Pope which St Peter was and acted as the Head of Xtians. The change of name does not necessarily matter, hence Pope in simple term means Head. You can call him Pope or Head of Christians or even Bishop of Rome. I have told you before that God approve hierarchy and Christ could not have left His Church without a Leader. There must be orderliness. No Church on earth today can claim oneness as prayed by Christ except Catholic Church. “My Church shall be one and the Gate of Hell cannot prevail against it. I’m still wondering if Catholic Church is not the true Church, then which one enjoys the oneness? Just mention the church.

The Roman Catholic Originated from Idolatry practices of the Roman people, they only try to emerge their idol worshiping system to Christianity, by so doing those idols they where worshiping where rename to the Biblical names like,

Venus (goddess of love) ====Virgin Mary
Jupiter (god of galaxy)======St. Peter

My question ! why is Virgin Mary prayed to? you do not know i guess, they simply brought their goddess to the church and rename it Mary.

Ebos - the head of the church is Jesus, not the pope.

Loco, but that is all through christianity. Culture gets preached as religion (See Pastor Adeboye and the trousers argument).

Easter and Christmas used to be pagan festivals, and have now been absorbed into christianity.

where did ebos get the idea that people have pictures of "Jesus" in their houses.

The only people known for that madness are Catholics.

Banderas- This exactly what am trying to pass across to you that the Catholics instituted all these things that brings about arguments and confusions, because it was done carnally with their own selfish reasons and God was not involved in it at all.

ThiefOfHearts-Thank you very much for your contribution, i agree with you, they even have it in their pockets and around their necks.

One more thing loco: The Roman/greek panthology had 12 gods, why are only two of them represented?


How about the writing of the bible by monks and scholars, did God have a hand in it?

I put it to you that God DID have a hand in the catholic church. I also put it to you that without the catholic church, christianity will right now be a small cult, possibly located somewhere around the jerusalem area.

ThiefOfHearts:

where did ebos get the idea that people have pictures of "Jesus" in their houses.

The only people known for that madness are Catholics.

Hehe, I've simply excused myself for the moment from this thread - so people can sort out their issues. As for the pictures. . . hmm, I've offered that my dear ebos should not assume this is the case with everybody!

Banderas:

I see some oddity here dear Pilgrim. So the church started in Acts 2. Then later on, Paul became a christian. This same Paul wrote most of what modern day christians consider to be the christian faith. What has stopped other people from receiving similar revelations that could (and maybe should) be added to the bible?

If people have made claims to "new revelations" (as surely there are many such claims), then we want to examine them.

There's no oddity that the Church began in Acts 2; what we might need to ask is the profound statement we find in Eph. 2:20 where we read that the Church is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone". That any such "apostle" apart from those referred to there would emerge with "new revelations" that have no bearing on the foundation of the apostles and prophets of Jesus Christ - I'd like for such guys to step forward.