@locoman,

locoman:

You are right pilgrim.1 i am not saying that the protestant or the other denominations are perfect no, not at all they all have their short comings, you must have the bad ones. Like you know that Christianity is more of personal than belonging to a specific group.

True.

locoman:

I would like to have that book, how possible is it?

This one in my drawer was a gift from a friend in the USA. But I could make a search for it and then send it to you if I find one in the local bookstore. Failing that, I could ask the guy to send me one to mail to you (or ask him to mail directly to you from the USA). How about that?

@pilgrim.1
This really sounds lovely, but how do i keep contact with you?

@Locoman

The Rosary is biblical, Catholics only repeat the words which Angel Gabriel used to address Mary - Luke 1 vs 29. It was Angel Gabriel that said this to Mary “ Hail, you favoured one, the Lord is with you; blesses are you among women.” Again in Luke 1 vs 42-45 - When Mary visited Elizabeth and greeted her, the child in Elizabeth’s womb leaped for joy and there Elizabeth pronounced these words to mary “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb (Jesus)” Finally, the Church through the guide of the Holy Spirit added the last part of the Prayer which is “Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen. Hail”

So when add Angel Gabriel and Elizabeth words – we form the Hail Mary Prayers which you condemn.

Hear the Prayer: (Angel& Elizabeth) Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus. (then Church) Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen. So, there is nothing wrong to tell the Holy ones to pray for us. They are alive and see what is happening on earth. Christ said the Angels in Heaven rejoice over one sinner that repents. This Christ statement shows that the Angels and the holy Ones see everything that happens on earth. You too can tell your Pastors to pray for you hence I know it is in the bible.

Also remember in Luke 1vs 46-55 Mary sang a song and said from now henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Do you call her blessed? If God could grant her that honour or favour despite billions of women in the word, who are you to say Catholics you should not honour her. Even here on earth, no one ridicules your mother and you let that person go free. Now you feel bold to say that Mary (Mother of Christ) does not deserve the honour which Catholic gives to her. No other denomination(s) that gives May this honour which she sang in her song except Catholic, and all these put together, we will be able to identify the true Church.

what part of the bible says that to do this they should carry a chain around whispering those words though?

But now you can see that the Rosary is biblical? Is the beads the problem now, but you was initially asking if it was biblical? Though, I will still explain about the beads

I dont really see how it is biblical. Plenty of words in the bible that one can repeat to him or herself without going around with beads like an Imam

where did the use of the beads come in? Btw, I dont believe anyone said that their chants werent of a biblical nature.

The Beads was first used by Saint Dominic whom Mary visited and instructed to initiate the Hail Mary Prayers and this Rosary performed wonders when Sanit Dominic first used it. The miracles that followed it made it possible for Catholics to believe that Holy May visited this Saint mentioned above. Remember the three popular children at Fatima. Mary also visited them and instructed them to always pray the Rosary. The Story is not known by only Catholics. It happened and everybody including non Catholics witnessed the Miracle. The Beads helps to determine how many decades of it you pray because each decade has a Mystery to reflect upon, and it indicate the life of Christ here on earth. However, what is pronounced should be of much importance than the Beads. All the Mysteries that make the Rosary will be stated soonest.

PROTESTANTS

Ask questions catholics are avilable online

The custom of reciting prayers upon a string with knots or beads thereon at regular intervals has come down from the early days of Christianity, and is still practised in the Eastern as well as in the Western Church. It seems to have originated among the early monks and hermits who used a piece of heavy cord with knots tied at intervals upon which they recited their shorter prayers. This form of rosary is still used among the monks in the various Greek Churches, although archimandrites and bishops use a very ornamental form of rosary with costly beads. The rosary is conferred upon the Greek monk as a part of his investiture with the mandyas or full monastic habit, as the second step in the monastic life, and is called his "spiritual sword". This Oriental form of rosary is known in the Hellenic Greek Church as kombologion (chaplet), or komboschoinion (string of knots or beads), in the Russian Church as vervitza (string), chotki (chaplet), or liestovka (ladder), and in the Rumanian Church as matanie (reverence). The first use of the rosary in any general way was among the monks of the Orient. Our everyday name of "beads" for it is simply the Old Saxon word bede (a prayer) which has been transferred to the instrument used in reciting the prayer, while the word rosary is an equally modern term. The intercourse of the Western peoples of the Latin Rite with those of the Eastern Rite at the beginning of the Crusades caused the practice of saying prayers upon knots or beads to become widely diffused among the monastic houses of the Latin Church, although the practice had been observed in some instances before that date. On the other hand, the recitation of the Rosary, as practised in the West, has not become general in the Eastern Churches; there it has still retained its original form as a monastic exercise of devotion, and is but little known or used among the laity, while even the secular clergy seldom use it in their devotions. Bishops, however, retain the rosary, as indicating that they have risen from the monastic state, even though they are in the world governing their dioceses.

still waiting for someone to quote a bible passage mentioning these beads

But Catholic started using Beads before Moslems. They imitated us and we cannot because they are using it and stop it. We have Altar of God, and Satan imitated, so today we still have Altar of Baals. The imitation can not invalidate the Altar of God or Catholic using Beads in the Rosary

We have four Mysteries in the Rosary and we reflect upon them. (1) Joyful Mysteries (2) light Mysteries (3) Sorrowful mysteries (4) glorious Mysteries. A Chaplet is 5 Decades and a Full rosary is 20 decades.

Now I can discuss JOYFUL MYSTERIES FIRST and its Bible backing because we reflect on each Mystery

1. The Annunciation
The angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth. And coming to Mary, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you." (Lk 1:26-28)

2. The Visitation
Mary set out and traveled to the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb." (Lk 1:39-45)

3. The Birth of Our Lord
And Mary gave birth to her firstborn son. She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger . . . And suddenly there was a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying: "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to those
on whom his favor rests." (Lk 2:1-20)

4. The Presentation in the Temple
Mary and Joseph took the baby Jesus to the Temple to present him to the Lord. At the temple Simeon and Anna came forward, gave thanks to God and spoke about Jesus to all who were present. (Lk 2:22-38)

5. The Finding of the Child Jesus in the Temple
The boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, but his parents did not know it. After three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. (Lk 2:41-50)

LIGHT MYSTERIES FIRST and its Bible backings

However, I can go on and on to state the Biblical recitation of the Rosary but I may have to leave the rest of the Mysteries and talk about Pope.[

b]1. The Baptism in the Jordan [/b]
And a voice came from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased." (Mt. 3:17)

2. The Wedding at Cana
"Women, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you." (Jn 2:1-12)

3. The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God
"This is the time of fulfillment. The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel." (Mk 1:15)

4. The Transfiguration
While he was praying his face changed in appearance and his clothing became dazzling white. (Lk9:29)

5. The Institution of the Eucharist
Before the feast of Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come to pass from this world to the Father. He loved his own in the world and he loved them to the end. (Jn 13:1)

The above mysteries and many more not stated here constitutes what Catholics recite in the Rosary. You can see that it is purely biblical. Let us not talk what we don't know, though, each person is entitled to his or her opinion as long as the person is careful with the way words are used.

@ ebos, the virgin mary worship, rosaries and all other accessories of catholic worship is idolatory. End of story.

ebos:

The Beads was first used by Saint Dominic whom Mary visited and instructed to initiate the Hail Mary Prayers and this Rosary performed wonders when Sanit Dominic first used it. The miracles that followed it made it possible for Catholics to believe that Holy May visited this Saint mentioned above.

How are we sure that it was really Mary who visited St Dominic?
- the one time a dead prophet appeared to a living person was when the witch of Endor conjured up the spirit of Elijah. Its unbiblical!
- Jesus Christ told us IN MY NAME shall ye do miracles not in the name of hail mary prayers and rosaries.

locoman:

@pilgrim.1
This really sounds lovely, but how do i keep contact with you?

I apologise - was busy and went off for a while.

Contact me through my email addy (see profile).

ThiefOfHearts:

still waiting for someone to quote a bible passage mentioning these beads

I haven't read it in the Bible. If e dey there, make someone from the Catholic Church simply quote am.

- - -

Secondly, as regards the Hail Mary issue, we should simply agree it's not in the Bible as well.

pilgrim.1:

I haven't read it in the Bible. If e dey there, make someone from the Catholic Church simply quote am.
- - -

I'm still waiting for you to enlighten my ignorant self as to how the Catholic Church came into being and what happened in the interim period to the "Biblical Church".

@ pilgrim.1

We've dealt with the verse before and shown that the Church is not founded on Peter (see I Cor. 3:11). But the point I'm trying to bring out in Matt. 16:18 is that Christ promised that the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against the Church - which goes to show that God did NOT allow idol worship to completely overshadow the Church (otherwise, there would not be any true Christian on earth today),

i wonder if u are a christian, who are u to judge if a church is worshipping idols

I-man:

I'm still waiting for you to enlighten my ignorant self as to how the Catholic Church came into being and what happened in the interim period to the "Biblical Church".

  My persuasion: the Catholic Church is not the same thing as we read in the Bible about the early Church.

  Your persuasion: the early Church is the Catholic Church.

  My query: please show me that it is so from the Bible.

  your query: please show me the history of my Catholic Church!

  My follow-up response: okay, let's take it in bits and start with examining the Papacy system from the Bible.

  your follow-up response: I'm still waiting for you to show me the origin of my Catholic Church.

Now, I-man. . . if you assert that the Catholic Church is in the Bible and yet cannot defend the Papacy system, what games are you introducing here?

dutireyemi:

@ pilgrim.1
i wonder if u are a christian, who are u to judge if a church is worshipping idols

Where did I "judge" a church to be worshipping idols? I hope you saw clearly what I said in the same pace where you fetched that quote from? See it again:

pilgrim.1:

First, I don't think I've accused the Catholic Church directly of idol worship.

pilgrim.1:

  My persuasion: the Catholic Church is not the same thing as we read in the Bible about the early Church.
  Your persuasion: the early Church is the Catholic Church.
  My query: please show me that it is so from the Bible.
  your query: please show me the history of my Catholic Church!
  My follow-up response: okay, let's take it in bits and start with examining the Papacy system from the Bible.
  your follow-up response: I'm still waiting for you to show me the origin of my Catholic Church.

Now, I-man. . . if you assert that the Catholic Church is in the Bible and yet cannot defend the Papacy system, what games are you introducing here?

I asserted that the Church is in the Bible? Classic straw man argument.I implied rather that this is a credible view of the Church's origin-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Roman_Catholic_Church  

However,you said that the Church has no links to the Early Church to which I then said-presuming you are absolutely right and this is the case-how then did this Catholic Church come into being and what happened to the "Real Church".

I-man, before you allege tha strawman argument against others, could you please walk us through the Bible - OT and NT - and show us what you know about the Papacy system?

Please.

Thank you.

The reason why I've asked that we have a reference point (which for me is is the Papacy) is simple: instead of arguing back and forth as to whose claim carries the day for origin of church, let's examine each one's claim from the same point of reference that is germane to ALL - the Bible!

Now, I've also taken a look at the weblink you offered; but did you carefully go through the appendices on that page? Here's one:

"^ The Eastern Orthodox and some other churches are also "apostolic" in origin -- i.e., they also date their origins back to the founding of the Christian Church at the time of the Apostles " (footnote #1).

Is that what we should be arguing here?

So, I would simply like to see where you get the idea of the Papacy from.

Thanks.

@Pilgrim, The points pasted below about Mary are the biblical references I made already. Now, you said Rosary is not in the bible. But ebos did not write all these bible portions I stated. You have seen it in the bible, yet you still insist the honour to Mary is not biblical. If Catholics worship Mary then Angel Gabriel and Elizabeth first worshipped her. I have asked before, do you call Mary blessed? In her Magnificant, She said all generations shall her blessed (Luke 1 vs 45-55). Mary’s words have come to pass in Catholic Church, she is blessed. You cannot claim to follow Christ and fail to give honour to Mary (His Mother). You are only insulting Jesus. Do you actually know the heart of a mother watching Her Son as He passed through Calvary? The torture and the bleeding and Mary felt it. Remember, the words of Simeon when the child Jesus was presented in the Temple “that this child is destined for the rise and fall of many in Israel, but as for Mary, a sword will pierce your own heart.” Please meditate on these words and then place it side by side to mirror a Heart of Mother to her son.

I want somebody misquote me base on the below bible references. Just read it through.


The Rosary is biblical, Catholics only repeat the words which Angel Gabriel used to address Mary - Luke 1 vs 29. It was Angel Gabriel that said this to Mary “ Hail, you favoured one, the Lord is with you; blesses are you among women.” Again in Luke 1 vs 42-45 - When Mary visited Elizabeth and greeted her, the child in Elizabeth’s womb leaped for joy and there Elizabeth pronounced these words to mary “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb (Jesus)” Finally, the Church through the guide of the Holy Spirit added the last part of the Prayer which is “Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen.

So when add Angel Gabriel and Elizabeth words – we form the Hail Mary Prayers which you condemn. Even the Beads will be explained using bible references.

Hear the Prayer: (Angel& Elizabeth) Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus. (then Church) Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen. So, there is nothing wrong to tell the Holy ones to pray for us. They are alive and see what is happening on earth. Christ said the Angels in Heaven rejoice over one sinner that repents. This Christ statement shows that the Angels and the holy Ones see everything that happens on earth. You too can tell your Pastors to pray for you hence I know it is in the bible.

@ebos

Your argument is baseless. Those words from the Bible are message and not prayers of any kind

1. Mary or any other saints does not pray for nobody. Jesus is the only advocate who is sitting at the right hand of God.

2. Jesus had never call Mary mother. He rather refer to her as woman ( so how can Mary be the mother of God?)

3. Chaplet and the sign of the cross where practice of the Roman idol worshipers  before the amalgamation of their idol and Christianity that now make up Catholic ( that is why it is call The Roman catholic===meaning idol/Christianity can coexist)

4. what about the holy Communion?

5. What about the child baptism

There are lots of things to point out that indicate what the roman catholic stand for.

@ Locoman,
You should not debate simply because others do the same. I have given you biblical references yet you have not proved me wrong. Have you not heard that the prayer of the righteous is powerful in the sight of God? Why do you kneel down before your Pastors to pray for you? Why again do you tell him to pray for you?

You said Jesus never called Mary mother. Now, in Luke 1:43 Elizabeth said “why this is granted to me that the Mother of my Lord (God) should come to me.”

Infant or Child Baptism: The bible is not against infant baptism. If there is any portion of the bible that condemn it, let me see it, rather it made remarks which shows that children should be shown the way of the Lord in life. Get it now, one who is not capable of personal responsibility is regarded as an infant. Don’t infants desire Heaven? The scripture says: “Very truly, I tel you NO ONE can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.” (John 3vs5). Note the two words ‘NO ONE’ it did not say, ‘No man and woman’ but ‘NO ONE’ and here no one includes child, man and woman.

Again Cornelius and his household were baptized. Who knows if children were there?

I know, you will quote BELIEVE and be BAPTIZED, that are criteria for being saved. That is first of all believe. Now people ask can a child believe? There is no need to wait for the child to grow and make decision for himself. Parents and sponsors can make the decision for him and accept the responsibility to bring the child up in the way of the Lord. Children don’t make decisions to send themselves to school, parents do that. Parents should care for their children spiritual needs and raised them in the way of the Lord.

The children you object to their baptism as incapable of taking decision, were they not the ones who cried out in the temple saying “Hosanna to the son of David” (Matt. 21vs15). And Jesus said: “Yes, have you never read, out of the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself?” (Matt. 21vs16).

Holy communion – coming to it.

@ebos

You quot a lot of scriptures and you miss apply them. Those dead people have nothing to do with the living, you need to sort yourself out with fear and trembling.

Elizabeth called Mary the mother of my lord and not Jesus himself.

You do not know what baptism is. It is done by immersion and not by pouring water on the head of a baby that does not know his left nor right. Everybody gives account of himself before God and not parents nor sponsored.

Still waiting for the Holy comminion though,

You said Jesus never called Mary mother. Now, in Luke 1:43 Elizabeth said “why this is granted to me that the Mother of my Lord (God) should come to me.” Please take note “Mother of my Lord (God)” Why do you say these people are dead? God said “I am not the God of the Dead.” I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They are dead but now alive.

Holy Communion – This is where Catholics keep on wondering what Protestants are teaching. The Holy Communion is the center of the Catholic Faith. Protestants call it a mere symbol while Catholics says it is the true Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, together with…, under the appearances of bread and wine. So, John 6 explains it all. Let us remember that even when Jesus Himself was teaching about His Body and Blood as food to be eaten, many of His disciples withdrew from Him – saying it was a hard teaching, no one could believe that. So, today it is not surprising that some sect have continued to demonstrate that the teaching is a hard one. Jesus said “I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever, and the bread that I shall give for the life of the world.”.” (John 6:51). Again verses 53-58 states “I say to you, UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, You Have No Life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks My blood has Eternal Life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. “ This is a mystery – it is beyond your knowledge and it is not a mere symbol of Christ. That is why Catholic is different from protestant churches, so, Protestants can hold their views because the real founders knows they cannot play with John Chapter 6. In 1 Corinthians Chapter 11:23-31, Christ blessed the bread and wine and it became His Real Body and Blood and He broke the bread and gave it to His disciples and said “Take, eat, this is My body which is broken for you, do this in remembrance of Me.” Again, He took the cup after super, saying, “This cup is the new Covenant in My blood, drink it often in remembrance of Me.” Just read 1 Corinthians Chapter 11 and John Chapter 6 well. Anyway 1 Corinthians Chapter 11 carries curse that is why Protestant founders cannot call it the real Body and Blood of Jesus to avoid God’s wrath. They know what they are doing.

I will still explain about the Beads and that of Mary not having other children.

Baptism by Immersion or water Pouring on the head (Sprinkling), whichever one is used, it is done in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. In the Old Testament, Baptism was foreshadowed in Ezekiel 36:25 where it is written”

“I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanliness and from all your idols I will cleanse you.” So, in Baptism, we show that we have been saved from filth, death and doom by the resurrection of Christ, not because our bodies are washed clean by water, but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to clean our hearts from sins (1 Peter 3:21). So, don’t think by immersion, you are just washing your physical body.

Now you have turned to say it was Elizabeth that called Mary mother and not Jesus, after your initial thought technically showed that no portion of the bible addressed Mary as the Mother of Jesus. Having now quoted a portion of the bible where Mary was addressed as the Mother of Lord (God) by Elizabeth, yet you still not accept it. Why not then prove Catholic wrong by getting rid of that portion in the bible, by this way, we will know it is only Catholic that address Mary as the Mother of God.

You claim follow Jesus, but Christ said this is My body and blood, but protestants said no, it is a symbol. Who is now going contrary to the word of God? Satan is really at work.

@ebos

you seem not to understand my questions, i ask,

1. Why are they using something round like a coin in place of unlevend bread and wine for the holy Communion ?

2. I ask why are you saying virgin Mary? (she was indeed a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus and there after she had other children naturally with Joseph. Yet, you always say virgin Mary.

3. Our forfathers are alive, you are quit right about that. But they are not worthy enough to advocate for us. (no one was found worthy to break the seven seal. Except the lamb who seats on the throne was found worthy).

4. you do not understand the meaning of baptism.