I've often wondered what would have occurred if Adam and Eve had at least one child before their downfall. That child would not have been born into sin.

Adam and Eve spent years in the garden and communing with God, yet in all that time as husband and wife it appears they did not consummate their "marriage" or union if you like. . .until after they had sinned. I was wondering why procreation never occurred before the advent of sin because they must have known about reproducing as God commanded them to "be fruitful and multiply" and after Eve had sinned the punishment that God meted out to Eve was to experience the pain of child birth. Thus I concluded Adam and his wife must have had knowledge of such affairs despite the facts there appears to be no evidence of their intimate relations before they sinned.

Another striking scene in the Bible is after they both ate the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowlegde , it appears the innocent scales in their eyes had fallen and they became aware of the fact that they were both n[i]a[/i]k[i]e[/i]d and "they were not ashamed" . . . so a n[i]a[/i]k[i]e[/i]d "married" couple were not aware of their unclothed state before they sinned furthermore possibly never even had any relation together until post-sin . . .

I wonder . . .or maybe I'm missing something. . .

You mean u believe all that book of Genesis crap? Those are kiddy bed time stories used to amuse children, lure them to sleep and make them sleep with the belief there's an angel of God watching over them. It matters not whether or not they had issues prior to the biblical account of Eve's encounter with the serpent; what will be, will be. Nature has designed sex to be key to human sustenance and evolution. We are products of sex.

Poster, you are about to start a very looooooong argument.

just to make some points on the alleged "sin" committed by Adam and Eve:

1.) in the bible,the word "sin" is not used refering to Adam.the word "sin" appeared first in the bible when refering to Cain's murder of his brother.

2.) When God created Adam and Eve,it was for the purpose of them procreating and dominating the earth.so he made them into male and female.that was the plan of God from the beginning.

3.) Adam and Eve were not created to live a paradesical or garden life.God said He created them for the earth and not the garden of Eden.

4.) When Adam ate from the tree,according to the bible,God made them to leave the garden because "lest they should eat from the tree of life and inherit immortality".that phrase in the bible shows that Adam and Eve were never granted initially upon their creation eternal life or immortality.they were created mortal and were ordained to die.

5.) the purpose of God putting a "tree of knowledge" in the garden of Eden and then telling Adam not to eat from it so that they do not gain knowledge is either absurd or misunderstood.how can God not want man to be knowledgeable? does God want man to remain ignorant?

6.) God's instruction for Adam not to eat from the tree was a design and a predetermined course by God to teach Adam two main important things:who his enemy was and that Satan,the enemy of mankind,can deceive him and two,that when man fall short of the expectation of God,he can turn to God with repentance and God is ever-forgiving and most merciful.the so called "forbidden tree" was a blessing in disguised and a practical way of God teaching man.

7.) if Adam and Eve had not ate from that tree,humanity could have being non-existent.we see that eating from that tree was the cause of procreation and it accomplished God's plan for Adam to procreate.Adam became blessed with offsprings.why did God made procreation a consequence of eating from that tree,when from the beginning God had made procreation a blessing for Adam?this shows clearly that the so called "forbidden tree" was part of God's design to achieve His plan and put Adam into the earth as he was created for the earth.

8.) Adam committed no sin and was not punished because:

a.) he was not created immortal but mortal.if Adam was immortal eating from any tree would not give him death.all indications show that Adam was not immortal when God made him.he was rather made to be tested and to fulfill God's plan and by himself move towards righteousness to inherit paradise after death.

b.) procreation is a blessing and not a curse.how can Adam be deemed to have sinned,when he was granted knowledge of how to procreate at the point after he ate from the tree? procreation was made to be a blessing.

c.) God enlightened Adam and taught him who his enemy was by practically showing him how satan can deceive.Adam and man first knew what LYING was from satan who lied on God.man has never experienced that before to know how to protect himself from being misled.

d.) God taught Adam that guidance comes from Him and the meaning of repentance.we must look to God for guidance and when we are misled we must turn back to Him for protection in what can also be termed as "repentance".note that "repentance" or turning back to God is not only necssary when one commits a sin but it is necessary at all times.


therefore with all the above reason,Adam could not have sinned and there is no "original sin".

you can also check this thread for more details on sin,infallibility of Adam and judgement:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-753308.0.html#msg9099064


please watch this video particular to see how the so called "original sin" and the need for the alleged "crucifixion" are refuted:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqAy0805dFQ

Review the below thread for a perspective on the so called "original sin":

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-551599.0.html

@ LagosShia
Your points are very interesting and thought provoking and I thank you for taking the time I'm going to respond to them accordingly.


3) Now that's an interesting point (not sure if it's entirely correct though) . . .but I have pondered on this. . .so they were not made to be "fruitful and multiply" in that specific location (garden of Eden)?

4) Interesting. I thought death was a by-product of sin . . .because after they sinned, death featured in the bible by means of a symbolic atonement for their sin - God killed an animal and used the animals skin to make a "covering" for them . . .

Thus I thought death will have no place in the garden of Eden, well when they exited the place death became a theme so I'm assuming if they had stayed in the garden they wouldn't have ever accounted death.

5) I wonder, I've been thinking about this for the longest

6) . . . hmmm I can probably agree with this,

When Adam sinned and God asked him "Adam where art thou" I do not believe God was referring to his geographical location, but his spiritual disposition. I actually wonder how events would have panned out if Adam had just responded that he sinned and asked for repentance because I think that's what God was seeking for at the time when he asked such question - I assumed he wanted him to acknowledge his sin and come to repentance.

continued. . .


7) hmmm really? your number 7 point struck me the most. . . .

"blessed with offspring" through the alleged by-product of sin, sex hmmm it sounds slightly contradictory if we are to consider sex as a result of sinning.

If that surely is the case then humanity is as a result of sin, maybe we should thus be grateful to Adam and Eve for sinning which allowed us to come into existence

Then perhaps clothes too should been seen as a resultant of sin. . .isn't after they had sinned that they were finally clothed? Wasn't it a result of them sinning? . . .if they had not sinned they still would have been in an undressed state.


In the early scriptures man was told to be "fruitful and multiply" in other words procreate. When Eve sinned one of her punishment was to experience pain during child birth so she was designed to be pregnant thus they were meant to procreate.

But are you saying that sex is a resultant of sin? Can sex be a product of sin when there was supposed to be a result to that action called sex - children. They were commanded to produce children - "be ye fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein." Thus children were already a requirement of them, and they come about through procreation aka sex.

However I do find it intriguing that Adam and Eve (husband and wife) were only aware of each other's unclothedness after they had sinned and not beforehand. If they had not been oblivious to this maybe there would have been children born in the Garden of Eden . . . .unless there was another method other than sex to begetting children. . . .ah I don't know sha.

b.) procreation is a blessing and not a curse.how can Adam be deemed to have sinned,when he was granted knowledge of how to procreate at the point after he ate from the tree? procreation was made to be a blessing.

So if they had remained sinless chances are they wouldn't have bore any children abi?

Mcleo007:
Nature has designed sex to be key to human sustenance and evolution. We are products of sex.

I agree.

Oh dear I just quickly revised the book of Genesis and I have made some mistakes here.

Before they sinned in Genesis chapter 2 verse 25 it reads:

And they were both n[b]a[/b]k[b]e[/b]d, the man and his wife, and they were not ashamed
(KJV)

So they did know they were n[i]a[/i]k[i]e[/i]d before the introduction of sin and not only after.


After they had just committed sin in Genesis chapter 3 verse 7a it reads:

And the eyes of them were both opened, and they knew that they were n[b]a[/b]k[b]e[/b]d;
(KJV)

I think the verse above may be referring to their spiritual disposition.


After they were expelled from the Garden of Eden they procreated (I don't know if this was the very first time however after reading the last verse in Gen: Ch 3 )

Gen 4: 1a,b

And Adam knew Eve; and she conceived and bare Cain
(KJV)

Just wanted to clear up my mistakes sha even though now I'm even more confused.