I don't hate Christianity or Islam but I will admit I hate the fact that it took outsiders to “spread the good news”.

I wonder why it effectively took another people to show us “the way, the truth, and the light”. I’m slightly taken back that God in [I]his infinite wisdom[/I] used the same messengers that would later oppress us to ‘enlighten’ us in between "thou shall not steal"-ing our treasure and "thou shalt not kill"-ing our people.

It also makes me wonder if there was something even wrong with our native gods. I know nothing in this life is static so there was bound to be alterations in our culture/spiritualism but to substitute them altogther is a drastic transition.

It is one thing to adhere to these Abrahamic faiths and follow these God(s) but is it necessary to look down on other gods - like the ones our forefathers served? Today some Nigerians mock what they consider the foolishness of their ancestors bowing down to worship graven images that had been carved by man. . . .well perhaps it was their symbolic depiction of God akin to how the bible alludes to the Christian God.

Again, how comes the God that these people brought is largely considered as the “right” one?
Nigeria has numerous ethnicities adhering to their own spirituality thus there are a plurality of gods in the country. Surely at least one of those gods must have been "right"? Why must it be the God of the Israelites or Allah that is considered worthy of that title “the one true God”?
And yet some Nigerian Christians/Muslims complement their religion with native rites.

Finally, I feel I must clarify that I am by no means proposing that Nigerians should revert to their ancestor’s gods neither am I planning to myself nor is it my goal to un-convert the Muslims/Christians . . .I just wondered whether it was fair to demonize and marginalize our ways and our gods?

I am by no means proposing that Nigerians should revert to their ancestor’s gods neither am I planning to myself

so what was the purpose of the whole rant? or did u forget to take your meds?

[flash=400,325]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJQAYYZ8A4g[/flash]

exotik:

so what was the purpose of the whole rant? or did u forget to take your meds?

Yes I forgot to take my meds, thanks Doc *rolls eyes*

It's not by force if you don't want to read and it's certainly not by force to answer, ok.

If you were following properly you'd see that the last question which I kindly highlighted in blue already serves as an answer in reference to your question but excuse me for being inquisitive.

Adieu.

I usually avoid religious discussions like the plague, but let me point out here that Christianity and Islam are just modifications of Judaism. So really, there was only one group (Jews) that "had the good news" and spread it to the pagans, if you accept or believe in one of the Abrahamic religions. I don't think the Jews oppressed, killed, and looted us.


As for why some of the native religions are not looked upon favorably in many parts of Nigeria, I think it has something to do with this.

I think native religions are looked down on in most of the world except for parts of Asia (India, Japan, etc.). The Arabs, Europeans, South Americans, etc. don't seem to practice their native religions much either.

PhysicsQED:

I usually avoid religious discussions like the plague, but let me point out here that Christianity and Islam are just modifications of Judaism. So really, there was only one group (Jews) that "had the good news" and spread it to the pagans, if you accept or believe in one of the Abrahamic religions. I don't think the Jews oppressed, killed, and looted us.

Yes I understand the origin of all Abrahamic faiths however regarding the offspring religion the couriers of such (which were not Jews) are the ones which have a blood soiled trajectory in Nigeria and I point at them and not the Jews irrespective of such religions birth. Concerning the Jews and them being in the position to spread their faith . . .while they may have been the sole bearers of "the good news" they are very conservative, whilst other faiths encourage or even force others to join the fold being initiated into Judaism is much more rigorous than uttering a simple prayer of repentance. The dominating religions in Nigeria are both Christianity and Islam so despite the birth of those religions and it's preceding handler I feel I have no warrant to evaluate Judaism and it's cause as I do with the others.

It's akin to me begrudging the Latins/Greeks etc for haven at least provided the skeleton of the English language which has crept on our primordial shores competing with our indigenous language(s). The Latins, Greeks whomever never spread the English Language even though they provided much of the language's DNA . . . so if I was to carry a sore about the dominance of the language in foreign countries I would first look at the English not their forefathers or former rulers etc.

As for why some of the native religions are not looked upon favorably in many parts of Nigeria, I think it has something to do with this.

I think native religions are looked down on in most of the world except for parts of Asia (India, Japan, etc.). The Arabs, Europeans, South Americans, etc. don't seem to practice their native religions much either.

It's interesting however that even though Nigeria is known for it's religious composition consisting of Islam and Christianity, one of the top ten religions in the world with a wide following pertains to a native one - Ifa - however it has obviously been remixed over the years by followers in places such as Cuba.

I guess I see native religions just as important as these imported faiths and I do understand that there may have been some rites attached to some indigenous religion that would be considered barbaric today and rightly so but such element wasn't even unique to the native ones. Most if not all Abrahamic faiths (for example) have been modified like with Christianity the new testament is what normally governs the Christians . . .and even in times past the church had undergone reformation i.e. Lutheranism.

If such episodes had taken part in the shaping of Christianity etc I do believe that native religions would have eventually had their own reformations (if need be) . . .hmm perhaps some did.

Anyhow, I appreciate your input.

your native gods are why you are in the predicament you are in right now.

be guided accordingly!!!!!!!

buzugee:

your native gods are why you are in the predicament you are in right now.

expatiate please

emofine:

expatiate please

if you have read the bible extensively from cover to cover you will find out that worshiping idols is the ultimate sin that does not sit too well with God. what does he do to those who partake of such sin ? he removes his protection from them and lets them get invaded looted robbed pillaged and enslaved by their enemies. 'you will be carted off to a new land in which you will serve as slaves'. your land will be pillaged constantly. you will never find peace. you will be inundated with turmoil. there will be lots of suffering. does this all sound familiar ? AFRICA right ? the garden of initial civilization. well this is what happens when you start using humans as sacrifice and start carving out gods to worship. the obatalas, sangos, oyas, mamiwater, juju, voodoo etc etc. colonization, slavery, unfair trade, etc etc ? these are our enemies looting and pillaging us. it is all scriptural and prophetic.

as per our invaders introducing their religion to us ? nah they are re-introducing your religion back to you. the lord works in mysterious ways. that religion was your religion which you transfer ed to the greeks who then transfered it to the latin and onto the romans. the lord had your invaders re-introduce your religion to you while invading you. its all pretty deep really but the lord works in mysterious ways

as for me nothing was wrong at all with our indigenous gods here in nigeria, just that educated once uses foreign god to deceive the uneducated in our mixed and therefore looting and killing with scope.       imagine using the ofor of igbo gods to swear not t loot,kill or do whatsoever wrong  ;d ;d i tell you no element in govt will loot our money. i wish nigeria will revert to they true gods .believe it that is the only way nigeria will be good.

emofine:

I don't hate Christianity or Islam but I will admit I hate the fact that it took outsiders to “spread the good news”.

I wonder why it effectively took another people to show us “the way, the truth, and the light”. I’m slightly taken back that God in [I]his infinite wisdom[/I] used the same messengers that would later oppress us to ‘enlighten’ us in between "thou shall not steal"-ing our treasure and "thou shalt not kill"-ing our people.

It also makes me wonder if there was something even wrong with our native gods. I know nothing in this life is static so there was bound to be alterations in our culture/spiritualism but to substitute them altogther is a pretty big transition.

It is one thing to adhere to these Abrahamic faiths and follow these God(s) but is it necessary to look down on other gods - like the ones our forefathers served? Today some Nigerians mock what they consider the foolishness of their ancestors bowing down to worship graven images that had been carved by man. . . .well perhaps it was their symbolic depiction of God akin to how the bible alludes to the Christian God.

Again, how comes the God that these people brought is largely considered as the “right” one?
Nigeria has numerous ethnicities adhering to their own spirituality thus there are a plurality of gods in the country. Surely at least one of those gods must have been "right"? Why must it be the God of the Israelites or Allah that is considered worthy of that title “the one true God”?
And yet some Nigerian Christians/Muslims complement their religion with native rites.

Finally, I feel I must clarify that I am by no means proposing that Nigerians should revert to their ancestor’s gods neither am I planning to myself. . .I just wondered whether it was fair to demonize and marginalize our ways and our gods?

Well, i the way you think. I believe the whole demonizing thing was part of the enslavement and colonial process.i.e "make them feel like they are bad, dirty, barbaric and worthless". The white men sold us a lie. All they needed do was simply sow the seeds of distrust and inferiority complex in order to achieve their aims.
Today, if u are caught serving ur ancestors gods, people will look at you as immoral and unrighteous. And by the way, why do they make us spell the christian God with a capital, and ours with a small letter?

hmm, its high time we start thinking and open our eyes!

Indigenious gods are barbaric,Human sacrifice is synonymous with these gods.
get it into ur thick skull.

dippy yoo:

Indigenious gods are barbaric,Human sacrifice is synonymous with these gods.
get it into your thick skull.

That is a stupid statement. How many of these indigenous religion have u practiced for u to know which one is synonymous with human sacrifice?
Besides isnt human sacrifice also recognised in the bible? Did god require abraham to slaughter his only son? So what are we talking about?
Everything you know about christianity was written, taught and forced upon you by a white man.
It is even funny how he same white men have today turned around to shed doubt on some of these mythical stories in the bible, yet your "thick skull" prefers to stick to the former lies!

twas a test of faith for Abraham sir.God does not take human sacrifice,be informed!

dippy yoo:

twas a test of faith for Abraham sir.God does not take human sacrifice,be informed!

Superstory! So how do you know the indigenous ones were not a test of faith as well? There is a differemce between witchcraft/rituals and the worship pf traditional gods? I know for a fact that most of the traditional gods also reject human sacrifices. Isnt that what led to the fight between the two wives of sango?
The point is that we must refrain from swallowing foreign ideas hook line and sinker! All the advanced countries of the world, including South Africa do not tolerate abuse of traditional worship.
Without or customs and tradition, we are nothing! Be informed!

Some times i dont know what to believe. I hate religion arguement it leads nowhere.

@emofine

It also makes me wonder if there was something even wrong with our native gods. I know nothing in this life is static so there was bound to be alterations in our culture/spiritualism but to substitute them altogther is a drastic transition.

It is one thing to adhere to these Abrahamic faiths and follow these God(s) but is it necessary to look down on other gods - like the ones our forefathers served? Today some Nigerians mock what they consider the foolishness of their ancestors bowing down to worship graven images that had been carved by man. . . .well perhaps it was their symbolic depiction of God akin to how the bible alludes to the Christian God.

Again, how comes the God that these people brought is largely considered as the “right” one?
Nigeria has numerous ethnicities adhering to their own spirituality thus there are a plurality of gods in the country. Surely at least one of those gods must have been "right"? Why must it be the God of the Israelites or Allah that is considered worthy of that title “the one true God”?
And yet some Nigerian Christians/Muslims complement their religion with native rites.

Finally, I feel I must clarify that I am by no means proposing that Nigerians should revert to their ancestor’s gods neither am I planning to myself nor is it my goal to un-convert the Muslims/Christians . . .I just wondered whether it was fair to demonize and marginalize our ways and our gods?

I like the way you think. You are quite deep and the true daughter of your father. You are on point. I wouldn't like to expatiate more on what you just said. It requires in depth critical analysis and could warrant writing a book on here.

A Jewish man once asked me " Why didn't your people keep the ways and religion of their fore fathers".

It is quite unfortunate that many of our people do not understand the word "reformation" in religion context. Even Judaism has been reformed over and over again. We have orthodox Jews , Reformed Jews, Conservative Jews and others. The worst part of it is that our people who take this imported religions as part and parcel of their life do not know the History of these religions. They lack the aptitude to research and read more on it and for the most part, they hate to think.

As Henry Ford said, "thinking is the hardest thing there is".

buzugee

if you have read the bible extensively from cover to cover you will find out that worshiping idols is the ultimate sin that does not sit too well with God. what does he do to those who partake of such sin ? he removes his protection from them and lets them get invaded looted robbed pillaged and enslaved by their enemies. 'you will be carted off to a new land in which you will serve as slaves'. your land will be pillaged constantly. you will never find peace. you will be inundated with turmoil. there will be lots of suffering. does this all sound familiar ? AFRICA right ? the garden of initial civilization. well this is what happens when you start using humans as sacrifice and start carving out gods to worship. the obatalas, sangos, oyas, mamiwater, juju, voodoo etc etc. colonization, slavery, unfair trade, etc etc ? these are our enemies looting and pillaging us. it is all scriptural and prophetic.

Going by your logic and view on this issue. It is quite obvious that you do not know your history and the history of these imported religions. Read about the history of Christianity and Islam from Roman times---Middle ages--Dark ages--- Islamic conquest. Have you ever heard of the word "Reformation"?

What do you say to Ancient Chinese, Indian, Japanese Civilizations? They have kept their tradition, religions,philosophy and spirituality and it is going on stronger after thousands of years. In fact, the language of the computer you are using was first introduced by the Chinese through their ways of thinking. Yin and Yang that gave way to 0 and 1( the binary language computer understands).

Are you confusing religion with spirituality? Every religion has always been hijack by some people to self their interest. Our indigenous religions were no exception.

What do you think of Shintoism, Hinduism, Buddhism? In spite of Modernism, Post-Modernism, it is still going strong!

We Africans are our own enemies, confused and lost. We need to start thinking. Although it won't be easy to overcome overnight after centuries of brainwashing. But a thousand miles start with a single step.

I am not obsessed with "organized religion" as I prefer Reason and Spirituality over that anytime any day.

If you were following properly you'd see that the last question which I kindly highlighted in blue already serves as an answer in reference to your question but excuse me for being inquisitive.

lol, i did see the last question and honestly, unless you are 12 or below, only then would you wonder if it was fair or not. is there anything fair in this world? or you just wanted to let us know that you can think "deep?"

and after thinking deep, you have finally realized that christianity and islam are fake and the whole “right" God concept is fake. so if you are going to serve and worship a God, it would be better you revert and worship those of your ancestors? but you are just too scared to come out and say it, don’t you?

They are man made idols.

They are not omnipotent.
They are not omniscient.
They are not omnipresent.
They are not immortal and they are not eternal.

They also fear the one and only most high Supreme GOD JEHOVAH.

I for one would have preferred in Jesus Christ was African. I would relate better with a savior from my Continent. I don't like the Idea of a Jewish God though i'm a fan of Judaism.

buzugee:

if you have read the bible extensively from cover to cover you will find out that worshiping idols is the ultimate sin that does not sit too well with God. what does he do to those who partake of such sin ? he removes his protection from them and lets them get invaded looted robbed pillaged and enslaved by their enemies. 'you will be carted off to a new land in which you will serve as slaves'. your land will be pillaged constantly. you will never find peace. you will be inundated with turmoil. there will be lots of suffering. does this all sound familiar ? AFRICA right ? the garden of initial civilization. well this is what happens when you start using humans as sacrifice and start carving out gods to worship. the obatalas, sangos, oyas, mamiwater, juju, voodoo etc etc. colonization, slavery, unfair trade, etc etc ? these are our enemies looting and pillaging us. it is all scriptural and prophetic.

First of all even though this topic allows Christianity and Islam to be relevant because they have eclipsed our indigenous beliefs I would rather the greater emphasis awarded to the native faiths and not the wonders of Christianity or Islam.
Sir, I have not read the bible from cover to cover but I know that "worshipping idols" is one of the sins outlined.

Secondly, I could also ask you if you comprehend any of the indigenous faiths from head to tail because you are in effectively saying that those "idol worshipping" beliefs are secondary to Christianity. . .and it's akin to the thought that if not by the grace of God that cultural incubator known as Nigeria would have never encountered "the way, the truth and the light" a.k.a civilization thanks to God’s selfless messengers of the faith - the Europeans.

And since it was apparently in the scripture it is part of God's greater plan, right?

Well I think that the two most significant components that separates traditional beliefs from the imported faiths are:
1) Text (they had a book that served as a guideline and reference)
and. . .
2) Monotheism they pretty much consolidated the supremacy and faculties of God into one whole being

Had our ancestors perhaps contained their belief in prose as the couriers of Islam and Christianity then maybe those traditional beliefs would have carried much clout.

buzugee:

as per our invaders introducing their religion to us ? nah they are re-introducing your religion back to you. the lord works in mysterious ways. that religion was your religion which you transfer ed to the greeks who then transfered it to the latin and onto the romans. the lord had your invaders re-introduce your religion to you while invading you. its all pretty deep really but the lord works in mysterious ways

Hallelujah isn't God good, chai!

So let me try and comprehend this. . .

We or let's just say our early ancestors were worshipping this particular God long before the sinful Europeans and so as messengers of the "one true God" back then evangelised to those European sinners (without the means of slavery mind you) to repent and accept this merciful God.
However once upon a time our righteous ancestors rebelled against Jehovah and started carving out a collection of idols each steeped in "witchcraft" and substituted God for them.
Our backsliding ancestors thus needed to be punished for their abomination and tada the now righteous Europeans as part of God's masterful plan came back with the gospel to re-convert us with the good news coupled with a revolver just in case some stubborn persons didn't get the kind message.

Yeah I must agree with you that's pretty "deep" and the Lord truly works in "mysterious" ways. . .I'm just so sad for those who were killed prematurely by the "messengers of God" before they could repent and heed the gospel.

But do you not actually see the biggest irony of it all? These outsiders who came with a standardized faith written in their own language - so obviously they must have known what was in this very book - yet many broke perhaps all of the ten commandments yet simultaneously wanted to do the "will of God" by turning us away from sin and bringing us into the christian fold.

blackpanda:

Well, i the way you think. I believe the whole demonizing thing was part of the enslavement and colonial process.i.e "make them feel like they are bad, dirty, barbaric and worthless". The white men sold us a lie. All they needed do was simply sow the seeds of distrust and inferiority complex in order to achieve their aims.

. . . even our phenotypes were demonized

Today, if u are caught serving your ancestors gods, people will look at you as immoral and unrighteous.

you can also add "primitive" to that enviable list

And by the way, why do they make us spell the christian God with a capital, and ours with a small letter?

hmm, its high time we start thinking and open our eyes!

as for me I spell the Christian God with a "G" out of habit . . .well I was once a christian (not out of choice mind you) and despite my current rhetoric I cannot deny that some Christian doctrines are now embedded into my make-up whether I like it or not . . It's difficult to completely flush out of my system.

dippy yoo:

Indigenious gods are barbaric,Human sacrifice is synonymous with these gods.
get it into your thick skull.

smh

Mr--Why:

@emofine

I like the way you think. You are quite deep and the true daughter of your father. You are on point. I wouldn't like to expatiate more on what you just said. It requires in depth critical analysis and could warrant writing a book on here.

Thanks but I'm actually regarded as the prodigal in my family lol.

Please feel free to write at whatever length you want about the subject I will surely read it, I'm just gathering thoughts and certainly would not be deterred by the length of a post.

A Jewish man once asked me " Why didn't your people keep the ways and religion of their fore fathers".

It is quite unfortunate that many of our people do not understand the word "reformation" in religion context. Even Judaism has been reformed over and over again. We have orthodox Jews , Reformed Jews, Conservative Jews and others. The worst part of it is that our people who take this imported religions as part and parcel of their life do not know the History of these religions. They lack the aptitude to research and read more on it and for the most part, they hate to think.

As Henry Ford said, "thinking is the hardest thing there is".

I agree with you 100% about the issue of "reformation"

exotik:

lol, i did see the last question and honestly, unless you are 12 or below, only then would you wonder if it was fair or not. is there anything fair in this world? or you just wanted to let us know that you can think "deep?"

and after thinking deep, you have finally realized that christianity and islam are fake and the whole “right" God concept is fake. so if you are going to serve and worship a God, it would be better you revert and worship those of your ancestors? but you are just too scared to come out and say it, don’t you?

Why don't you try third guessing me next time since your first and second were malconcieved

Oh and remember the rule: "three strikes and you're out"

chipmunkey:

I for one would have preferred in Jesus Christ was African. I would relate better with a savior from my Continent. I don't like the Idea of a Jewish God though i'm a fan of Judaism.

I appreciate your honesty and I for one completely understand. I also used to challenge myself and wonder how the message would have affected me if Jesus was indeed an African, I guess I sort of feel he is far removed from me. . .

^^
lol, misconceived or right on point? i know what you are going through whether you admit it or not.

ok since you have given me a third chance to hit the nail on the head, here it is:

you are interested in learning more and if possible reverting in your ancestors religion, and from what you have written so far, i guess it is IFA. but since you have a christian background that has demonized IFA as “idol worshipping” through the ages, the only way to validate your interest in IFA is to start questioning the motives of christianity in our society and you just added islam as jara since nigeria also has a huge muslim population. then after getting all the answers you already know from the internet, that there is nothing wrong with IFA,  you will “quietly” revert to worshipping IFA, or at least in your heart.

btw, i love these songs from this olokun priestess  especially the song @ 3:00

ma'heko de, ma ghi ya agbon ru’le  – meaning:  we are coming gently, we are not in a hurry in life.

[flash=400,325]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzpdqgKw50[/flash]


so don’t worry, you will get there soon.

I guess we just moved with times, Sorry "african gods", but we had to move on. Some religions with good political tactics stole our hearts. Better luck next time.

@ OP, quite a few things are wrong with our indigenous gods,


1, Would you like to go inside the forest naked carrying a calabash ( a form of sacrifice) to appease the gods? You then notice one dirty old babalawo drooling by the corner.

2, Their demand for human sacrifice

3, labelling innocent kids and old women witches and wizards.

4, Consistent sacrifice, Imagine a poor man with just few livestock, and he is required to make sacrifice to the gods to get rid of of 'evil spirit',

5, the list is endless, I can go on and on


Having said that, these gods are man-made. Every thing that you could think of that is wrong with man is wrong with gods ( all religion included, including the imported ones from Arabs and white)

If there is any man I respect, dat should be the great German philosopher Hegel!!!, He said and I quote, "Africans are non thinking beings and Africans are not liable of even creating their own thoughts", This man is very correct and am saying this because of the stup*d comments some of U re making here. How can U say the traditional gods re diabolical?, I weep for my fellow Africans who av been tied under the exploitation and ignorance of Christianity and Islam. Am not being subjective but I know too well that Hegel saw all this before makin dat statement of His. If U re conversant with history then U will know dat d pre-colonial Africa society was very peaceful and satisfying!, Christianity as we all know was imposed on us as well as Islam and this is even more fact showing the subjugation of the Africa continent and their beliefs, thoughts, traditions etc. It should therefore be noted that it is only when we go back to our traditional gods and beliefs that we can account for or even talk of development, The assertions that traditional gods are diabolical should be debunk.

knowing JESUS was d best thing that has ever happen 2 me.
So i thank God 4 Christianity

knowing JESUS was d best thing that has ever happen 2 me.
So i thank God 4 Christianity

How does this affect the issue under deliberation?, #/grow up/