All these mockery and attacks on leaders of other faith and their  religions should stop. We get nowhere by these. Except provocations on one another emotions.

Froebel and other attackers should take note. Jesus didn't send us to attack other Faiths. what Christians should do is to preach the gospel. You won't find anywhere where the apostle attacked others for their beliefs. You can never in a man to christ by these wars. You only draw fire to yourself and the gospel in retaliation. One of the rules in evangelism

DO NOT ATTACK OTHER FAITHS OR RELIGION.
DO NOT ATTACK RELIGIOUS LEADERS
DONT ENTER INTO UNNECESSARY ARGUMENT.
BE A GOOD LISTENER.

There are good arguments though . You talk I listen. I talk you listen .let truth prevail. But when we allow our flesh to get in the way. We are only left with ego. You can't win people with fight ,insult and ridicule . A minister must control, his emotion. The gospel can only be communicated by love.

2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Let's take example from the apostles. They had encounter with other faiths too. But had results by wisdom . A good example is Paul experience at Athens . When he saw the whole city worshipping idols. So tey, they even have one I dol they couldn't give name to, they called it "THE UNKNOWN GOD"

Acts 17:16
16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. . 22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars'hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. 24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

HE GOT RESULT

. . . 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

when we strife in the name of God, He is not in it. It is worldly wisdom.

James 3:14-18
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

I like this.

Does this also mean we should not expose false prophets

Jesus did, Paul did and so should we.


Jesus Christ the Son of God, called them "hypocrites", "blind guides, " "blind, " "whited sepulchres, " "serpents, " and "ye generation of vipers" (Matt. 23:23-34).

Yet, we are told today that we are to fellowship with men whose doctrines are just as unscriptural as those of the Pharisees. Some who say they are Bible believing Christians insist on working with Roman Catholics and other assorted heretics. Yet, according to many, we are not supposed to rebuke them for their compromise.

The church at Ephesus was commended because they had "tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars " (Rev. 2:2).

The church at Pergamos was rebuked because they tolerated those that held "the doctrine of Balaam, " and "the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate" (Rev. 2:14,15). It is never right to tolerate false teachers, but they are to be tried by the Word of God, and exposed. Of course those who want to disobey the Word of God will seek by every means to avoid this teaching.

"Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith " (Titus 1: 13)

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us " (II Thess. 3:6)

A lot of the OP is yada yada ---- sooooo don't comment on the "pastors" (TB Joshua's church) reported in the news yesterday who advised people not to take their HIV drugs because of "faith" and some of them died.

By the way, here is a bonus for Oyakhilome followers (scroll down the link to read story): http://www.globalnewsnig.com/?p=100

frosbel:

Does this also mean we should not expose false prophets 

Jesus did, Paul did and so should we.


Jesus Christ the Son of God, called them "hypocrites", "blind guides, " "blind, " "whited sepulchres, " "serpents, " and "ye generation of vipers" (Matt. 23:23-34).

Yet, we are told today that we are to fellowship with men whose doctrines are just as unscriptural as those of the Pharisees. Some who say they are Bible believing Christians insist on working with Roman Catholics and other assorted heretics. Yet, according to many, we are not supposed to rebuke them for their compromise.

The church at Ephesus was commended because they had "tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars " (Rev. 2:2).

The church at Pergamos was rebuked because they tolerated those that held "the doctrine of Balaam, " and "the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate" (Rev. 2:14,15). It is never right to tolerate false teachers, but they are to be tried by the Word of God, and exposed. Of course those who want to disobey the Word of God will seek by every means to avoid this teaching.

"Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith " (Titus 1: 13)

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us " (II Thess. 3:6)

I'm talking about other faiths dude not other Christians.  Your attacks against christian is not an issue. Its only an exoression of your ignorance.

My concerns are the artacks agsinst other faiths. All the Muslims or the Catholics you're attacking .how many of them have you won? . By your attacks ,you stir up counter attacks. That's not gospel brother

Joagbaje:


I'm talking about other faiths dude not other Christians.  Your attacks against christian is not an issue. Its only an exoression of your ignorance.

My concerns are the artacks agsinst other faiths. All the Muslims or the Catholics you're attacking .how many of them have you won? . By your attacks ,you stir up counter attacks. That's not gospel brother

That is how I read it too. There is nothing wrong with putting your own house in order, ie christians debating and critising other christians. But I find it quite distasteful to see all this competition with people of other religions.

Joagbaje:


I'm talking about other faiths dude not other Christians.  Your attacks against christian is not an issue. Its only an exoression of your ignorance.

My concerns are the artacks agsinst other faiths. All the Muslims or the Catholics  you're attacking .how many of them have you won? . By your attacks ,you stir up counter attacks. That's not gospel brother

Have you heard of the term Christian apologists , well check it out, that's what i am , mate 


Christian apologetics is a field of Christian theology that aims to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defend the faith against objections, and expose the perceived flaws of other world views.








"Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people " - Jude 1:3

^^^ So I will hope you will manage to do justice to these facts, yet nagging questions about Christianity and Biblical Jesus?

1] How can we be certain that the message of Jesus that he delivered in his Syriac mother tongue is preserved 100% since what the Bible is written from is the many "Greek and Latin manuscripts?

2] John 21 verse 25 says that not all that Jesus said and did was capture because the whole word would not have been able to contain the 33 or mere 3 years events. If there were things overlooked as stated by this verse, how are we sure of who Jesus was exactly?

3] If Jesus was the end of the line, why post Jesus writing [from acts of apostles onward], indicating that Jesus didn't quite finish everything, but someone [like the that prophet, another comforter] is going to finish everything, though you call him the holy ghost, while spirit is an expression for prophet [true spirit, false spirits]?

4] Where is the record of the another comforter, who if true, his job was done and completed on the disciples in that very single event of the day of pentecost, without any indication from Jesus that there is a carrying forward, if nothing is written down?

5] If Jesus was correct, should there not be known to us the wrong that was prevailing with the disciples when the another comforter arrived in their lives/on their head as fire, making their tongue utter correction? What is that correction?

6] What was the thing that the another lead to so that it is the complete truth, because there is no good thinking that they had that truth at the time the another comforter arrived, otherwise, Jesus will be incorrect to say a thing that was untrue? What were they led to as the truth and please point to the less than absolute truth that they fell into after Jesus left and before the another comforter permanently corrected them?

7] How did the another comforter as a non speaking holy spirit in form of tongue of fire praised Jesus, if Jesus was already know as son of and God and holy ghost all at the same time?

8] Why would Jesus begged himself [as God/father] to send himself [holy ghost] when as holy spirit, he was all over the place all along before his mother Mary was even alive?

9] If Jesus was the 3 in one, when he died as you said, does it not mean the 3 died for tat poorly calculated 3 days and 3 nights which are gotten from late friday to early sunday [poor math. a texan village idio.t will know how incorrect this math is since you will not be able to get for us in it, 3 nights]?

I will stop here for mr apologetic to answer these appalling "apologies'.

frosbel:


Have you heard of the term Christian apologists , well check it out, that's what i am , mate 
Christian apologetics is a field of Christian theology that aims to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defend the faith against objections, and expose the perceived flaws of other world views.

^^^
You're missing the point. Evangelism is not a defence of faith. Defence of faith is within the church. But what we owe other religion and faiths is the gospel. You cannot win people to christ by attacking them. You only stir up hate. The gospel is Gods love to man.

You guys have turned the religious section into incessant attacks on bible ,Koran ,islam,Christianity. A fight that no one can win. wasted effort.

^^^ "Attack on Bible and on Christianity my leg! So, pointing out the fraud of false teachers, deceivers and heretics is "attacking" the Bible and Christianity?

"Other faiths" my leg! Some of us were not fooled by your opening post. And really, how many people of the Christian posters bother with Moslems and "other faiths"; how many people for example attack the Eckists, the Grail movement people etc? I didn't even used to bother with the evangelical* atheists --- except it became necessary recently to show them up for what those moronic trolls are.

Here is one more thing: the people who have a go at the Moslems etc will most likely grow out of it. Will Oyakhilome and other false teachers ever repent of their rubbish?



* Evangelical atheists of course ---- distinguished from ordinary/"passive" (in non-pejorative sense) atheists.

Now i am happy.
Some are finally waking up in nairaland religion section.
Criticizing another person's religion will never create any changes in that person but will rather make the person more defensive closing the person up.

More emphasis should be placed on how practicing your religion can make you a better and more loving person. This is what the world is looking for and not people that will preach one thing and do exactly opposite of what they are preaching.
I hope more people will take note.

True, i agree with Pastor Jo, it generally is not very helpful - and I can say that as one who has wasted a great deal of energy doing such. It is, truly, generally futile.

However I should say that that is in general terms. In specific terms, Enigma is also spot-on regarding the question of dealing with spiritual highway-men.

Further, there is a great deal of misinterpretation of dogma which can cause real and present harm to people - and such should certainly be assidously campaigned against. Just to give an extreme example - the boko-haramist who believes that terrorism is justified jihad as a tool of vanquising what he sees an an evil foreign culture - this is just one example of a flawed religious view that all right thinking people should campaign against.

benodic:

Now i am happy.
Some are finally waking up in nairaland religion section.
Criticizing another person's religion will never create any changes in that person but will rather make the person more defensive closing the person up.

More emphasis should be placed on how practicing your religion can make you a better and more loving person. This is what the world is looking for and not people that will preach one thing and do exactly opposite of what they are preaching.
I hope more people will take note.

I disagree, we must preach the faith and show love but also expose false prophets .

Many years ago , I was a sleeping Christian, carried away with the false doctrines of prosperity gospel , word of faith, claim it name it, fanatical Christian zionism , a believer that muslims also hold Jesus as a saviour and all other crazy stuff.

Until I picked up my bible and started doing some proper and intensive apologetic reading , I came to the realisation that I had been duped.

Jesus said in the last days the deception will be so so deep and thick that if it were possible even the elect will be deceived.

And you want us to keep quiet and let atheists, Jihadists and false prophets spread their poison on this forum.

In fact many Jihadists ( will not mention names ) have been actively proselyting on this forum, we must counter their lies and falsehoods.

Where we agree is that we need to ( and this includes me ) mellow our tone when debating with these lovely friends of ours ( I almost choked saying friends ).

I think it's all about wisdom and balance. Christian apologia is not limited to the church. In fact, by definition, it is a lot more about outside the confines of the church. However, apologia does not consist of insulting the founders of religions, especially when done in a harsh tone. Such tactics rarely work and so defeats the commendable objective of trying to reach the adherents and steer them away from their wrong beliefs. Pointing out errors or disagreements with other faiths should be encouraged. But should be done in a civil tone and preferably with people who are ready to engage in reasoned dialogue.

[Quote]« #12 on: Today at 03:07:16 PM »

Quote from: benodic on Today at 02:13:01 PM
Now i am happy.
Some are finally waking up in nairaland religion section.
Criticizing another person's religion will never create any changes in that person but will rather make the person more defensive closing the person up.

More emphasis should be placed on how practicing your religion can make you a better and more loving person. This is what the world is looking for and not people that will preach one thing and do exactly opposite of what they are preaching.
I hope more people will take note.


I disagree, we must preach the faith and show love but also expose false prophets .

Many years ago , I was a sleeping Christian, carried away with the false doctrines of prosperity gospel , word of faith, claim it name it, fanatical Christian zionism , a believer that muslims also hold Jesus as a saviour and all other crazy stuff.

Until I picked up my bible and started doing some proper and intensive apologetic reading , I came to the realisation that I had been duped.

Jesus said in the last days the deception will be so so deep and thick that if it were possible even the elect will be deceived.

And you want us to keep quiet and let atheists, Jihadists and false prophets spread their poison on this forum.

In fact many Jihadists ( will not mention names ) have been actively proselyting on this forum, we must counter their lies and falsehoods.

Where we agree is that we need to ( and this includes me ) mellow our tone when debating with these lovely friends of ours ( I almost choked saying friends Grin ).[/Quote]You are still a sleeping Christian because you do not follow anything Jesus did. You are probably uncircumcised and if you are, it is not because of religion, but ethnic tradition. You are married and you crave women, children, wealth, and eat all kinda foods and flesh.

But wait a minute. I left question for your apologetic mind to answer and you seem to be playing a sightless man, now. Where is your spirit of apologetics?

Even

nlMediator:

I think it's all about wisdom and balance. Christian apologia is not limited to the church. In fact, by definition, it is a lot more about outside the confines of the church. However, apologia does not consist of insulting the founders of religions, especially when done in a harsh tone. Such tactics rarely work and so defeats the commendable objective of trying to reach the adherents and steer them away from their wrong beliefs. Pointing out errors or disagreements with other faiths should be encouraged. But should be done in a civil tone and preferably with people who are ready to engage in reasoned dialogue.

I concur here and it was rather somewhat unfortunate.

Should we say it was a heat of the moment thing

Mark 16:15
15 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach and publish openly the good news (the Gospel) to every creature [of the whole ahuman race].

We are instructed to preach the good news to all,not to attack their religion,our responsibility as Christians is to announce the good news, once we move our focus to announcing the love of christ for the whole world not taking their religion into consideration we would achieve so much more, after all we are not bringing another religion rather we are announcing the life of God.

nlMediator:

I think it's all about wisdom and balance. Christian apologia is not limited to the church. In fact, by definition, it is a lot more about outside the confines of the church

My assumption is that apologetics is a defence of the christian doctrines. So do I need to defed christian docritrine to pagans?


.

However, apologia does not consist of insulting the founders of religions, especially when done in a harsh tone. Such tactics rarely work and so defeats the commendable objective of trying to reach the adherents and steer them away from their wrong beliefs. Pointing out errors or disagreements with other faiths should be encouraged. But should be done in a civil tone and preferably with people who are ready to engage in reasoned dialogue.

Well the guy knows what I'm talking about.  He and The "charge and bail lawyer" just want to derail the thread. And use it to attack jo. I've mentioned it to him couple of times . I did this thread just incase he didn't see my other comments.  If its an issue of ignorance , let me point it to him . You don't win people over by attacking them.  My opening post is clear enough. He can't say he didnt know now.

^^^ Hypocrite ---- since you think it is alright to call other posters names.

Remember all the other times you similarly gave names to other posters ---- which it turns out also apply to Oyakhilome? Like bastard, for example?

Enigma:

^^^ Hypocrite ---- since you think it is alright to call other posters names.
Remember all the other times you similarly gave names to other posters ---- which it turns out also apply to Oyakhilome? Like bastard, for example?

Oops the name calling thing!
The thread says we are not to attack other faith
Can we return to it so we can learn something and can we discuss intelligently !

frosbel:

Where we agree is that we need to ( and this includes me ) mellow our tone when debating with these lovely friends of ours ( I almost choked saying friends ).

Lwkmd! Rotmflao!! Mr Frosbel ma brova,methinks you are a christian version of the muslim jihadist :-D
And sweet Jesus,Mr Sweetnecta is ALWAYS on the christian forum! The dude is all over the place. Jeeze! I can't help but admire his dogged efforts at "exposing the fraud that christianity really is". Lol. Lord have mercy :-D

:-):-(;-)

,l get the point, no one can be won to Christ through argument or offence-driven criticism notwithstanding though this is not to insinuate that there is no room for sincere exchange of knowledge and constructive criticism within the radius of love and mutual respect.

Proverbs 27:17
"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend",

it is really a sad thing to see how certain person have blatantly refused to be reasonable. l would kindly wish to recommend that people like frosbel refer back to the initial post and please review it again because to be frank this distraction is necessary.

hmmm, this is a good thread
we should take our eyes and tongues away from other religons by abusing them but rather pray for them
pray the change you want to see in them rather than condemn them
your criticism will not effect any change you know but rather worsen the situation

nobody has the totality of knowledge. that is one unique thing in life. there is always another step always something new to learn.
truth is like the horizon always receding as you move towards it. you can drag a horse to the stream but you can never force it to drink. and you can never teach the truth by winning an argument. at the end of all the arguments and counter arguments of who is right and who is wrong what impact would you have made if at the end of the day you end up creating more hatred and animosity.
and what then happens if at the end of the day it now turns out that you are the one who was wrong all this time how would you feel.
think about this

Enigma:

^^^ Hypocrite ---- since you think it is alright to call other posters names.
Remember all the other times you similarly gave names to other posters ---- which it turns out also apply to Oyakhilome? Like bastard, for example?

You just want attention. So let me give you a verse to cool you down.

Proverbs 26:17
17 He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.

Besides I never called you a bastard the bible did. That's what it calks sheep without shepherd . I only quoted what it says.

Hebrews 12:8
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Joagbaje:

You just want attention. So let me give you a verse to cool you down.

Proverbs 26:17
17 He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.

Besides I never called you a bastard the bible did. That's what it calks sheep without shepherd . I only quoted what it says.

Hebrews 12:8
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Ehn now, just like the Bible calls Oyakhilome too a bastard --- afterall him too be sheep without a shepherd.

Meanwhile, I called you a hypocrite on this thread not because of the past but because of your name calling on this thread itself - but it seems you were too daft to realise your hypocrisy until I have now explained.

Anyway, people like us will only stop calling out the falsehoods and heresies of your bastard boss when he repents.

How, then, is the faith of any people, however false, to be refuted, though it may have arrived at such a pitch of blindness as to confess some idol to be the creator both of heaven and of earth? As, according to your own admission, you cannot reason upon matters of faith, you have no right to attack others upon a matter with regard to which you think you ought yourself to be unassailled.

Sic et Non, Pierre Abelard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic_et_Non

Jump to: navigation, search

Sic et Non, an early scholastic text whose title translates from Medieval Latin as "Yes and No," was written by Pierre Abélard. In the work, Abélard juxtaposes apparently contradictory quotations from the Church Fathers on many of the traditional topics of Christian theology. In the Prologue, Abélard outlines rules for reconciling these contradictions, the most important of which is noting the multiple significations of a single word. However, Abélard does not himself apply these rules in the body of the Sic et non, which has led scholars to conclude that the work was meant as an exercise book for students in applying dialectic (logic) to theology.

In Sic et Non, Abelard presents 158 questions that present a theological assertion and allows its negation.

The first five questions are:

1. Must human faith be completed by reason, or not?

2. Does faith deal only with unseen things, or not?

3. Is there any knowledge of things unseen, or not?

4. May one believe only in God alone, or not?

5. Is God a single unitary being, or not?

The prologue frames the text as a professor's guide, "Aristotle, the most clear-sighted of all the philosophers, was desirous above all things else to arouse this questioning spirit , " The act of questioning authority in the university context and arguing both sides, afforded him a healthy distance from official inquisition.

Ishilove:

Lwkmd! Rotmflao!! M[b]r Frosbel ma brova,methinks you are a christian version of the muslim jihadist [/b]:-D
And sweet Jesus,Mr Sweetnecta is ALWAYS on the christian forum! The dude is all over the place. Jeeze! I can't help but admire his dogged efforts at "exposing the fraud that christianity really is". Lol. Lord have mercy :-D

Like your Jihadist brothers , right

The ones that maim, behead , mutilate and masscare innocents all over our beloved world. You will say they are only emualting Muhammad and I agree , but surely there must still be some rational people left in ISLAM, right

Considering that this article was started by a false prophet who believes that Christians and Muslims worship the same GOD, who called himself a god and spreads the prosperity poisonous gospel all over nairaland like a virus, my guess is he has an ulterior motive for opening this article.

I just don't trust the guy !!

frosbel:

Considering that this article was started by a false prophet who believes that Christians and Muslims worship the same GOD, who called himself a god and spreads the prosperity poisonous gospel all over nairaland like a virus, my guess is he has an ulterior motive for opening this article.

I just don't trust the guy !!

So what do you suggest? That he never open another thread ever again? Because whatever thread he opens you can bet that he has a motive for opening it. Is his every motive necessarily evil simply because he is 'a false prophet'?

Enigma:

Ehn now, just like the Bible calls Oyakhilome too a bastard --- afterall him too be sheep without a shepherd.
Meanwhile, I called you a hypocrite on this thread not because of the past but because of your name calling on this thread itself - but it seems you were too daft to realise your hypocrisy until I have now explained.
Anyway, people like us will only stop calling out the falsehoods and heresies of your bastard boss when he repents. :

Which church do you attend?