Chyz*:

A migration? Are you sure abt this?

werent you on the other thread where this topic was discussed.

check the newspaper article.

Also, Are you even sure that that that group was actually called olukumis and even when they "were in Ondo"?

when in ondo, they wouldnt have been called lukumi because they only acquired that name in diaspora. It was what they were called by outsiders.


same applies to yoruba itself.

odumchi:

They are too small in number to date that far back.

are you saying their oral traditions are wrong- i dont get your point.

tpia@:

someone familiar with yoruba dialects would understand the difference of odu'uwa.

and what point does that score?

^^you're the one turning everything into a battle for points.

you really should deal with your insecurity.

i guess i shouldnt have used "score", but instead should have said what point does that "make" coz your response was pointless.

and btw, if we are to speak on insecurity,  i think you should go look in the mirror coz when you were talking from the side of your mouth or should i say typing with your crooked fingers that the benin monarchy was started by the yoruba, i didn’t argue with you.

but when i responded with the simple fact and truth that the first ooni of ife was a bini man and he instituted the monarchy, you told me it was a lie and dragged it into an argument.

if you weren’t so insecure, why didn’t you just ignore? i guess you don’t know the meaning of the word.

@ topic

i'm noticing some naming patterns on the list someone posted:

3 issele

3 onicha

2 idumuje

2 ogo

each with suffixes or appelations.

any clue about the meanings of the words?

tpia@:

@ topic

i'm noticing some naming patterns on the list someone posted:

3 issele

3 onicha

2 idumuje

2 ogo

each with suffixes or appelations.

any clue about the meanings of the words?

Who is that someone?

tpia@:

werent you on the other thread where this topic was discussed.

check the newspaper article.

The guy who wrote that article is a yoruba and from ogun state. He's not from Anioma.

tpia@:


when in ondo, they wouldnt have been called lukumi because they only acquired that name in diaspora. It was what they were called by outsiders.


same applies to yoruba itself.

What were they called in Ondo then? Since it(olukumi) is what others call them, what do they call themselves in Anioma today because it wouldn't make sense for them to refer to themselves as such?

This whole Olukumi issue is very interesting: I don't think that the Olukumi-speaking people see themselves as anything but residents of their respective villages, nowadays. (I'll leave that Anioma = Igbo/not Igbo fracas).

It's generally agreed that Olukumi comes from Ondo/Owo dialect Oluku mi (my friend). The name Olukumi or "lucumi" is still used to refer to Yorubas in Cuba.

I don't think that the Olukumi-speaking people see themselves as anything but residents of their respective villages, nowadays.

quite right.

They are a perfect example of the "Igbo-ization" of people

i hate this post

This poster with the name ahj_harem does he/she not have something else to do other than being on case of anything igbo and always with a negative aproach?but will pretend to be balanced and start dribbling all over when connered.Does he see igbo in his dreams?each time i read his comments on here all i do is shake my head.

Abagworo:

Now that you have come to the real issue,Olukumi is no lost language as people may assume but in fact one of the earlier name of Yorubas.The Olukumis in Ugbodu migrated from Owo which means Owo speaks Olukumi.Records from slave era often referred to Yorubas as Lukumi.The only thing that happened is that the Delta Lukumi retained some lost words which might have been peculiar to some Yoruba area in the past.

I personally feel sorry for the loss of their dialect but this world is a growing one and we should not be stuck in the past.

in order to understand this issue it is important to know the origin of the word yoruba.
from all indications it would appear that those people known as yoruba today only started calling themselves as such quite recently.
this has been largely due to european colonialist influence partly and also partly due to the fact that there are no indigenous written records.
all so-called yoruba peoples speak language(s) /dialect(s) that are mutually intelligible but traditionally regarded themselves as ondo,ijebu,ekiti,egba,ijesha,ogbomina etc and were fiercely proud of these identities.
there is contemporary utility in being called yoruba as it creates the illusion of a single nationality and unity which has NEVER existed.
even the language was known as Anago and the term Olukumi was quite universal in what is now called yorubaland as such many are known as anagos outside nigeria.
modern historians have confused issues in their written accounts and those "yorubas" who have been schooled with these accounts believe the myth of their yorubaness.
in fact by the time the word Yoruba became known among many groups it was used to refer mainly to Oyo people/speakers.
certainly all the elderly ijebus i knew in the 70s referred to ARA-OKE people as awon yoruba = yoruba people.
as such if you have a group of anago speakers that are encysted in time in anioma they are not likely to use the word Yoruba in referring to themselves because factually they are NOT yoruba .
it is my understanding that this creation of a monolith homogenous group base on speaking dialects of a similar language is NOT restricted to the so called Yoruba but is also true of other major language/ethnic groups in Nigeria.
its utility lies in collective strength against "other" out groups but its validity is dubious. however without such devices it is impossible to form great nation states with a single identity e.g. hausa,germans,arabs

noiseless:

This poster with the name ahj_harem does he/she not have something else to do other than being on case of anything igbo and always with a negative aproach?but will pretend to be balanced and start dribbling all over when connered.Does he see igbo in his dreams?each time i read his comments on here all i do is shake my head.

How is Olukumi studies = Igbo studies

we really have ideeiots on NL

keep shaking ur head till it comes off. MUMU

alj_harem:

How is Olukumi studies = Igbo studies

we really have ideeiots on NL

keep shaking your head till it comes off. MUMU

WELL YOU CAN ANSWER THAT TO YOURSELF UDELE ORIE ONICHA UBOMA!PARHEPS THE SAME WAY TO YOU ONITSHA/ONICHA IN MANY IGBOLAND IS CORRUPTION OR = ORISHA IN YORUBALAND ACCORDING TO YOU.

noiseless:

WELL YOU CAN ANSWER THAT TO YOURSELF UDELE ORIE ONICHA UBOMA!PARHEPS THE SAME WAY TO YOU ONITSHA/ONICHA IN MANY IGBOLAND IS CORRUPTION OR = ORISHA IN YORUBALAND ACCORDING TO YOU.

Hey stop this ur attack on me. Philip emeaguali an Onitsha man suggested this. I am not saying or insinuating that it is a yorubaland or what ever. In fact we should be glad that we have a common ground for our unity. It has nothing to do with Igboland or yoruba land

noiseless:

WELL YOU CAN ANSWER THAT TO YOURSELF UDELE ORIE ONICHA UBOMA!PARHEPS THE SAME WAY TO YOU ONITSHA/ONICHA IN MANY IGBOLAND IS CORRUPTION OR = ORISHA IN YORUBALAND ACCORDING TO YOU.

Are you from Isinweke (Etiti)?.

aribisala0:

in order to understand this issue it is important to know the origin of the word yoruba.
from all indications it would appear that those people known as yoruba today only started calling themselves as such quite recently.
this has been largely due to european colonialist influence partly and also partly due to the fact that there are no indigenous written records.
all so-called yoruba peoples speak language(s) /dialect(s) that are mutually intelligible but traditionally regarded themselves as ondo,ijebu,ekiti,egba,ijesha,ogbomina etc and were fiercely proud of these identities.
there is contemporary utility in being called yoruba as it creates the illusion of a single nationality and unity which has NEVER existed.
even the language was known as Anago and the term Olukumi was quite universal in what is now called yorubaland as such many are known as anagos outside nigeria.
modern historians have confused issues in their written accounts and those "yorubas" who have been schooled with these accounts believe the myth of their yorubaness.
in fact by the time the word Yoruba became known among many groups it was used to refer mainly to Oyo people/speakers.
certainly all the elderly ijebus i knew in the 70s referred to ARA-OKE people as awon yoruba = yoruba people.
as such if you have a group of anago speakers that are encysted in time in anioma they are not likely to use the word Yoruba in referring to themselves because factually they are NOT yoruba .
it is my understanding that this creation of a monolith homogenous group base on speaking dialects of a similar language is NOT restricted to the so called Yoruba but is also true of other major language/ethnic groups in Nigeria.
its utility lies in collective strength against "other" out groups but its validity is dubious. however without such devices it is impossible to form great nation states with a single identity e.g. hausa,germans,arabs

WORD.

Andre Uweh:

WORD.

What part of the statement draw your attention ?

alj_harem:

What part of the statement draw your attention ?

All.
Aribisala is an intelligent poster.

Andre Uweh:

All.
Aribisala is an intelligent poster.

true that.

aribisala's focus is more towards the east.

his analysis on this thread is geared that way as well.

yoruba, just like lukunmi, anago and eku/aku, are words used by outsiders to describe southwesterners in ancient times.

on a side note, some yorubas try to call themselves oodua which technically also isnt quite correct. Omo oodua is more accurate.

tpia@:

aribisala's focus is more towards the east.

his analysis on this thread is geared that way as well.

yoruba, just like lukunmi, anago and eku/aku, are words used by outsiders to describe southwesterners in ancient times.

on a side note, some yorubas try to call themselves oodua which technically also isnt quite correct. Omo oodua is more accurate.

I think

Ooduan is more correct than Omo odudua.

Not all yorubas are children of odudua. Odudua[b]n[/b] is more of a coolective term to acknowlege him in yoruba history.

Also I actually found out that the term Anago was actually awori descriptive name I am not too sure while Yoruba was from Oyo.

Also what did the benins call the the ife people ?

Today, the Yewa people are mainly located on the Western part of Ogun State of Nigeria. They comprise the Ketu, the Sabe, the Ije (Ohori),Ifonyin, Anago, Eyo and Ogu (Egun)
On the Northern part of Yewaland is the Ketu sub-ethic group. Ketu towns of Ijoun, Ijaka, ljale, Egua, Igan Alade, Imeko, Owode-Ketu, Tata, llara and Idofa etc. were founded by emigrants from Ketu (founded by Alaketu and now in the Republic of Benin).
South of he Ketu are the Ije (Ohori) located in Oja-Odan, Obele, Ohunbe, Ibeku and lsale. Further to the South of the Ohoriare the Ifonyin whose main kingdoms are Ikolaje, llashe and Ifonyintedo.
To the Eastern part of Ketu, Ohori and Ifonyin are the sub groups originally referred as Egbado. These include the people of llaro, Ibara, Ilewo, Ilogun, Imala-Aiba, lIobi, Ibese, Igbogila, Imasai, lsaga, Igan Okoto, Joga, Ayetoro, Idofoyi, Tibo, Keesan, Oke-Odan, Erinja and Ajilete, among others.
South of the Egbado are the Awori who settled in towns such as Ota, Ado-Odo and Igbesa. West of the Awori are the Anago interspersed by the Eyo who settled in Ipokia, Agosasa, Ijofin, Ibatefin and Ihunbo.
To the south of the Awori and Anago are the Ogu (Egun) largely concentrated in and around Badagry. The Egun have intermarried with the Aworis, Anagos and Egbado and their main settlements are Tube and Maun.

http://yewaunionlagos.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47:history-of-yewa&catid=29:history&Itemid=28

also this

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MhOJheUc4pkC&pg=PA237&lpg=PA237&dq=awori+anago&source=bl&ots=EisSA-eYXX&sig=wAyL-KGdcstCZqTUH2fmt12x4R4&hl=en&ei=F6OlTqz-Mcyo8QPi0p3UBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Ooduan is more correct than Omo odudua

omo oodua is the correct term.

Also I actually found out that the term Anago was actually awori descriptive name I am not too sure while Yoruba was from Oyo.

anago, eku, etc were all used to describe yorubas in diaspora- particularly yorubas who were enslaved overseas.


yoruba was used by the hausa for the people to their south [west].

i'm not sure oyos themselves went by that term. To the best of my knowledge, they simply called themselves oyo.

tpia@:

omo oodua is the correct term.



anago, eku, etc were all used to describe yorubas in diaspora- particularly yorubas who were enslaved overseas.


yoruba was used by the hausa for the people to their south [west].

i'm not sure oyos themselves went by that term. To the best of my knowledge, they simply called themselves oyo.

also what is the meaning of ogaga in yoruba in terms of name ?

^^ogaga is an urhobo term i believe.

did someone call it yoruba and if so, what did they say was the meaning.

hmmmmm

Ogaga or Ogoga actually means king in Ekiti yoruba dialect

In urhobo it means Power

Hmm

for example Ogaga or Ogoga of Ikere

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/aoa/p/pair_of_door_panels_and_a_lint.aspx

^^not aware of this ogoga title.

what's the pronounciation?

there seems to be two kings in ikere- an olukere [of ife origin] and the ogoga [who seems to have migrated from benin]. Got this from a quick search.

never heard of this conflict before.

as per the ogoga/ogaga meaning- that's entirely possible.

we also have juba in yoruba which means worship or respect, and juba happens to be the name of a roman emperor of african origin.

so, there's really a lot that needs to be looked into by informed minds with the right training and experience.

owo, for example, can mean respect or honour in yoruba but it's also the name of a town.