I'm really interested in learning web desig in a standard form at an institution in Lagos,please,do you mind telling me a good one?If you are not sure they are good enough,don't bother.

Do you realize that you can pick up a couple of books now, get yourself a computer and with the money you would invest in a 4 year school or any other type of institution, get yourself a Career in Web Design for cheaper?? I mean If you really want to learn web design and have your heart in it, it is usually cheaper to do it yourself. That is what I myself did and today I am a programmer and a webdesigner with most of what I know being what I got from learning and experience, not school.

What area of web development would you love to get into?


KoboJunkie

Kobojunkie,i really appreciate your response.Do you mind recommending some of these books you read that makes you a good web designer.You are saying the truth,the money and time can be used for something else.But i'm a complete novice in this and that's why your question of what area of web development would i like to get into will be difficult for me to answer

I am not sure what aspect you want to focus on. If by Web Design you mean Front-End works and UI based then I would get a book on CSS, JavaScript, Ajax, and definitely HTML. I would suggest you go with the DUMMIES book series on these. I mean not that you are a dummy but I have found those books to be really good for beginners as they tend to explain the concepts as one would to a layman. O'reilly books are nice too. Just that you need to practise a lot with them and they have some really handy reference guides to offer.

Same books do great if you are trying to get into backend coding as well. Depending on the platform you choose, these books I can say are really good. Check out www.Amazon.com for more.


KoboJunkie

@Kobojunkie
I am as well interested in web designing as a career.How do I go about this?If you have ebooks on this
I would appreciate it if you could send it to my mail box -tijanimuritala@gmail.com

You have to be more specific. What exactly in Web Designing would you like to get into Do you want to just handle designing Or are in looking to get into Client Side Coding as well??

I mean some people just focus on using WYSIWYG tools but that is not all there is to Web Designing. And then there is also the Web Development field which is different from web design. Web Development deals mostly with server-side coding. You can start off by learning the basics, HTML and CSS, and as time goes on, or when you find that you are comfortable with those two, you can then decide if you want to focus on server side code or client side coding or graphic designing, using tools like Photoshop, Flash and other tools for graphic work.

These are some books you might want to check out

HEAD FIRST HTML

http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-HTML-CSS-XHTML/dp/059610197X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-7976897-8939028?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189959508&sr=8-1


HTML XHTML REFERENCE GUIDE
http://www.amazon.com/HTML-XHTML-Definitive-Guide-6th/dp/0596527322/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-7976897-8939028?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189959508&sr=8-3

HTML FOR DUMMIES

http://www.amazon.com/HTML-Dummies-5th-Ed-Tittel/dp/0764589172/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/103-7976897-8939028?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189959508&sr=8-4


BUILD YOUR OWN WEBSITE RIGHT USING HTML AND CSS

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Website-Right-Using/dp/0975240293/ref=pd_bbs_5/103-7976897-8939028?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189959508&sr=8-5



KoboJunkie

Kobojunkie,i appreciate your reply so much.Just like i told you earlier,i'm a novice so i'll be starting with a book that focus on CSS, JavaScript, Ajax, and HTML as you advised.There is a book on "html for dummie" on the link you gave me.I like to buy that and one other again out of the other three,which one would you reccomend?
Secondly,these books can only be shipped within USA as i guess,how can you help me out on how to receive the books here if i purchase it?Your kind response will be so much appreciated.My email address is subbyy4ever@yahoo.com ,i don't mind if you email me there so that we can get to talk or know better,thanks.

kobojunkie:
In a country where Amazon doesn't deliver to, I don't think it makes sense to provide links for the books, unless of course, you were just letting him of books he could buy from a bookstore over there. Either way, I think providing online resources is better.

kerenti:
I just did a google and came up with this link which should suffice: http://globalnetpromotions.com/free--html--tutorial--ebook--learn--dreamweaver--frontpage.htm

Personally, I would rather you learn it in a class setting. Why? Because I am a huge fan of social contact. Sure, you can read it for yourself at home. However, sitting with other people can provide valuable networking capabilities, and easy access to answers to any questions you may have, to mention but a few. Of course, this leads back to your original question of where you could go learn. I am currently working out something so I could come there to teach the basics. I am trying to get the logistics straight (location, price, etc). I will definitely keep you all on this forum posted.

By the time you go through all the links on the page above, you should be over-ready for your first project

Good luck!

My2cents,

I know people who live in Nigeria and still get to purchase goods online through family or friends who live here and maybe travel down that way on occassionally. so I do not think providing a link to books is bad, and yes, I would be willing to help the dude out should he want to get it and is able to pay for it.


About school, there is NOTHING WRONG with school but if you ask the majority of coders out there they will themselves tell you they learned more of what they work with from personal study and infact this applies to most all areas of study especially in Nigeria. Most of what is thought in school does not necessary apply in the work world out there. One can still network through forums such as these and many other mediums out there as well as Computer clubs. School is great but I personally know that after so many degrees in college and currently working on my masters, most of what I learned in school so far has not really been used in my career and what I know today, I did not necessarily learn back in school. I have worked with a couple of senior developers on various projects who have never been to college. Infact the one wiz kid we have at work never attended computer school. He taught himself all he knows today. So If a person can afford to do that, I am all for it. School is great but if a person has the mind, I believe it is possible to do it on own.

Sure, If you research the books and then decide which you want to get, we can arrange on how to get them to you @Kenrenti and @muriitijan


KoboJunkie

I know people who live in Nigeria and still get to purchase goods online through family or friends who live here and maybe travel down that way on occassionally.

Perhaps kerenti et al want to learn it right away, as opposed to going for the situation as outlined by your quote above? Perhaps it can't wait till tomorrow? Just wondering

As for school, yes, I am with you on all points. I have personally experienced/witnessed 100% of everything you have said. Having said that, there is still a place for school in society. The essence of any school isn't to teach you what you will apply in the real world but to teach you how to LEARN. That means, for instance, that my current manager who has a degree in history and philosophy can go to school not to apply what he learnt to the war with Iraq but to learn to expand his mind to other areas, one of which is what made him a coder for 5 years before becoming a manager. In college, I took Calculus 1 - 5 and Calculus-based physics but am yet to use it in 8 years.

Finally, there are people like me who don't learn fast and are not "talented (or insert whatever word that goes best here)" enough to be able to learn on their own but need that social contact. I wasn't one of those "fortunate" enough to be coding FORTRAN from the womb. My first encounter with a computer was late in life, so the way I learn is different. I am sure there are others like me.

In conclusion, I say if kerenti et al can afford school, let them go, but if they can't, then e-learning it is, I guess.

I never suggested E-Learning.  I never said he should not go to school but I did say that from my personal experience. You can pay all the money you want for school but at the end of the day, what gets you working is what you know and you get to know these things by actually studying on your own and practising on your own. Here is an example for you , 


I went to college,  spent about 45K for a degree,  by the time I graduated, most of the information I had gleaned was outdated and the market had already moved so far ahead of where I stopped. Heck, even the school started teaching the students different programming technics and basically revamped the whole curriculum to try to accommodate the change that had taken place in the tech/IT market. I on the other hand found myself at a place where the choices that presented themselves to me where not really cool. Either I went BACK to school to study under the new way or move to get any job I could in any field I could and basically get lost in the system as many do OR I get books and study and learn all the new things the companies now wanted and then get myself a job that way. I hit the books and 1 year after that I became a junior level .NET developer by reading and practising and writing simple apps here and there. Then when I got a job, I discovered that many of the programmers I work with and all do not even have college degrees and they make just as much money as their counterparts who have a college degree and then the same level of experience. So Imagine that,  I paid 45K to get the same job my co-worker has and did not pay any money for. Education is great and I am working on my masters among other things but I would say to the person out there who can, if you CAN get it cheap, go for it. The dude I work with who has no college education has no social problems whatsoever, infact, he is more connected than I am.

Like I said earlier, school is not bad but if you can reach the very same goal for cheaper, I would go for the cheaper alternative. and if these guys are serious, I am willing to help them.



KoboJunkie

Again, a few of my points taken out of context here and there:

I never suggested E-Learning. I never said he should not go to school but I did say that from my personal experience.

I am not accusing you of either

I hit the books and 1 year after that I became a junior level .NET developer by reading and practising and writing simple apps here and there.

In today's world where you are competing with cheaper counterparts in India and China, this is what you are supposed to do, school or no school. you are to continuously develop marketable skills. I started off with Java in the stone age of pre-swing, when Java only had 10 classes. I then moved to ASP, then Cold Fusion, then JSP. Now, in order to put my foot in the door, with respect to web development in Nigeria, I am learning PHP. It never ends and it never will end.

2 weeks ago, I had an interview where the dudes wanted someone with flex experience. They were willing to pay $100K for it (note to others: don't take prodgalson's posts on flex lightly. This new technology appears to be more serious than it seems). Since I am still in the PHP-learning phase of my life and I do thankfully have a decent-paying job, I have decided to table flex for now until probably early next year.

A few days ago, it just hit me that perhaps all this running around like a chicken with its head cut off, is probably getting a little too much. I think the best way to work smart is by setting up a website that has something for sale that appeals to others. With a world population of 6billion, if I could just come up with the perfect product, all I have to do is set up the website and hope that .0001% of such people buy the product. Then all this learning of 100 skill sets will come to an end. The only work I would be doing would be to type in my bank's URL/log in info online to see how much money is in my account. I know I may seem to be rambling but my point is that, hey, perhaps the IT version of "working hard" is cranking out of code and scratching your head to the point where you get premature balding (which I suffer from ). Perhaps the new "working smart" is sitting on the couch with your wi-fi enabled laptop and checking your account every 5 minutes. Who knows?

Then when I got a job, I discovered that many of the programmers I work with and all do not even have college degrees and they make just as much money as their counterparts who have a college degree and then the same level of experience.

Such is life my friend. I know of nurses (you heard that right) who, during the IT boom of the 90s, dropped their gloves and stethoscopes and learnt coding. They had degrees, but not in anything computer-related. I took working alongside them as a slap in the office, considering I actually had a computer-related degree, but hey, I got over it. Such is life. Looking back, I admire such flexibility. In America, you have hopefully learnt 2 things thus far: no one ever makes it working 40 hours a week and in addition to your primary job, you need residual income (which doesn't necessarily have to come from coding). Anyways, when the IT bubble burst, they went back to wiping patient's behinds (literally - Seeing you live in Ohio, I am sure you know what PCTs and CNAs do). Let not your heart be troubled. The end justifies the means.

The dude I work with who has no college education has no social problems whatsoever, infact, he is more connected than I am.

I didn't make a blanket statement. Just because that one dude isn't like that doesn't mean all others are like that.

and if these guys are serious, I am willing to help them.

Very noble of you. Kerenti et al, take note

You can pay all the money you want for school but at the end of the day, what gets you working is what you know and you get to know these things by actually studying on your own and practising on your own.

With all due respect, if you have come to realize this, based on the above, why work on "masters among other things"? I personally decided not to go for a master's degree based on me realizing just this (note to others: what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander. If you feel you must go for master's or phD, don't let my statement discourage you. GO FOR IT!).

I paid 45K to get the same job my co-worker has and did not pay any money for.

I paid roughly the same and am experiencing pretty much the same. What's worse? I am now competing with 20 year-olds, full of ego, who think they are the best thing since boiled dodo (I was once like that, so I have trained myself not to get upset ). But what do I do? I suck it up. It's part of life. No 2 fingers are the same. I am sure somewhere out there, someone paid 100k to attend Harvard and is saying the same thing about us that we are saying about the dudes who never went to school

At times it is best to listen to other than to be the one doing the talking. I have learnt a lot from the comments posted by Kobojunkie and My2cents.

My take on this, if you are a fast learner it is better to learn on your own than to go to a school especially as the rate of change or improvement in virtually everything related to IT is high for even schools to keep up with.

I am not a fast learner. It took me so many sleepless nights to get where I am today. I believe what made me do what I did was I realized that I had to do something about my situation. I mean I started off wanting to go into academics, you know get a PhD, write nice programs for research projects. But things did not work out as I expected and then during that time I started to meet a lot of people who had careers and did not necessarily gain the knowledge they needed during their time in school. Infact, I looked around me and realized that a large number of those who are doing really well for self had to spend time on own to learn what it is they REALLY wanted and needed to get into the market they were pursuing. So yes, I would like to encourage Nigerians out there to learn from the west and take time to practise this. READING is Key. I am paying off my 45K loan while my friend is enjoying spending every last penny he makes since he does not have any school loans to deal with. Imagine that!!


KoboJunkie

Kobojunkie,

Again you're not alone - I will be paying mine off, assuming I don't win the lottery, in 20 years time (I refinanced for 25 years to cut my loan payments in half). So again, suck it up and deal with it. Alternative? Leave for Nigeria and don't return to the US for 10 years, after which your credit file would have been purged and the govt can no longer get into your account. It may seem that I am a bit callous/cynical when it comes to life. That's just who I am. Maybe its age. I don't know. I am a firm believer in fate and destiny. No matter the obstacles you encounter in your life, if something is meant for you, you will get it, no matter what.

Also, as I always say, whenever you are feeling down, just keep in mind that there is someone out there who is far worse than you are. An example: I have a cousin who is a pharmacist. Just graduated. Making good money. However, she graduated with $200K in student loans Now you tell me, who is worse off? Sure she can go around getting respect for being a pharmacist, but at what expense? I mean, she owes as much on loans as she could pay for a house. That is why, despite my wanting to, I decided against med/pharm school. I have come too far to end up living from hand-to-mouth.

Like you, it pisses me off when I realize that every year, I am $2,400 poorer because of my student loans. Imagine the number of bags of cement that could have bought for a house project in naija. Of course, I could decide to never return to nigeria and thus have my mind in one place, but as my grandmother told me before I left 13 years ago, no matter how high a bird flies, its feet always point towards the ground. One day, like the Israelites, I shall return home, Lord willing

Good luck man!

uumm,  I am not in anyway complaining but telling others of my experience so they see my point here @my2cents. Why do you keep saying suck it up as if I in anyway claimed I regret what I did or something. I am simply telling the others of my own experience so they see how I arrived at my belief and such.

Actually, I am not pissed that I have a bill over my head. I have a college degree with counts for a lot in today's market, and which I intend to use to my advantage in the near future. So this whole revelation of mine is not to say that school is wrong or that college degree is evil. If I had my way, I would have saved myself money learning most of the main stuff by studying and then taken classes instead in those areas I could not have learned easy by studying on own and covered so much more ground than I did is all. It is still possible to study on own and still go to school for the rest. Just that it would do great if one could save a whole lot of money while doing that is all I am suggesting. Putting my own story up for another to see what I mean does not necessarily mean it is a sign of regret of any kind.


Kobojunkie

and (again)^10 kobojunkie, I am not implying anything. If I say you should suck it up, it doesn't mean I am saying you are angry or whatever. I am just saying its part of life. For all I know, you could be more resilient than me when it comes to taking life's blows. Whenever, someone tells me what they are going through, I like to relate with them if we share similarities, thatz all. That way, hopefully, they realize that, hey, it ain't that bad after all.

Just advice, which you don't have to take, thatz all.

you are both right

[b]Kobojunkie and my2cents, it's so great to here from you both.Just like Afam said,it's better to listen to people at times,you learn a lot.You've both made me to realise some of the areas i never considered concerning learning web designing.I think i've finally arrived at a decision.
Kobojunkie, i'm still planning on purchasing the books,plssss let me know the other one you would like me to buy along with the "html for dummy" and how you can help me get the books down here after i have paid for it like you suggested.I would really appreciate that.Like i said earlier,you can get in touch with me through subbyy4ever@yahoo.com because i may need your address for the shipping and that will be rather personal to you.
my2cents, i believe you are right about e-learning,they can be very helpful really.I'm already working on the site you gave me,i appreciate that.I will search for more myself and should in case you are able to get more sites that treats web designing comprehensively,please let me know.I will always appreciate that.

You guys are both right,i believe in a situation like this,one determined to learn should be able to do anything that will help out to arrive at the best.I hope to hear from both of you soon,thanks.[/b][color=#006600][/color]

kerenti et al,

Here is another, perhaps simpler, link: http://safari.adobepress.com/0672320762

There is a "Start reading online" button to the top right. From what I have seen, this one is much cleaner than the other one I sent you. At some point, you might be required to register, but that's about it. There's no charge for registration from what I could tell.

Give the above site a try first, then if that doesn't work, let me know and I will try and find others. There was a site in the past that even I learned from but unfortunately, the site is down.

I hope this helps.

kerenti:

[b]Kobojunkie and my2cents, it's so great to here from you both.Just like Afam said,it's better to listen to people at times,you learn a lot.You've both made me to realise some of the areas i never considered concerning learning web designing.I think i've finally arrived at a decision.
Kobojunkie, i'm still planning on purchasing the books,plssss let me know the other one you would like me to buy along with the "html for dummy" and how you can help me get the books down here after i have paid for it like you suggested.I would really appreciate that.Like i said earlier,you can get in touch with me through subbyy4ever@yahoo.com because i may need your address for the shipping and that will be rather personal to you.
my2cents, i believe you are right about e-learning,they can be very helpful really.I'm already working on the site you gave me,i appreciate that.I will search for more myself and should in case you are able to get more sites that treats web designing comprehensively,please let me know.I will always appreciate that.

You guys are both right,i believe in a situation like this,one determined to learn should be able to do anything that will help out to arrive at the best.I hope to hear from both of you soon,thanks.[/b][color=#006600][/color]

Here is a suggestion, start with the ones I listed there. I mean save up the money if you really want to do this and then email me when you are ready to purchase the books so I can help out the way I can. @kerenti


Make the needed sacrifices so you can get to where you want to go. Even if it means not logging on the net for a while, if it is worth it, I would say go for it and fast cause the world does not wait for no man.


KoboJunkie

my2cents, thanks very much for the link,i will check it also now.Kobojunkie, i'm very grateful for the kindness,i will get in touch with you in about a week time,i should be ready then.If you both have more information that will help me out,do not hesitate to get in touch with me,thanks.

kerenti et al,

here is yet another site i ran into this morning. I hvnt been thru it all, but so far, it looks pretty good: http://www.tutorialstream.com/

Enjoy!

If it's web designing you wan to learn, then i suppose you already have good knowledge of web developing, how to write in html,xhtml, xml, php, ajax and co, Why i am saying this is so that you know( if you don't) that there is a difference btw developing and designing. Developing takes care of the site architecture while designing is the artistic part. If its designing( even developing) there are so many tools out there online that you could make good use of without necessarily going anywhere, except you want to just have a certificate showing you are a web designer. trust me there are millions of great web designers out there who don't have certs but do better jobs than the so called pros. It's really up to you, can you make out time to learn?, If so, how many hours are you willing to put into it in a day?. Do you have access regular access to the internet and own a pc or laptop of your own to store files applications videos ebooks and all for your web designing tutorials and subscribing to feeds based on web designing tuts, to get constant learning updates?

personally i beleive you will be better off learning if you have the materials and dont need to go anywhere. Just my personal opinion, cos i learned almost everything i know online. It is pure desire and having a strong will that matters. If you truly want materials and you are sure you will be ablle to do these things i mentioned just let me know. jtobun@yahoo.com

Wishing you success.

I learnt webdesigning at home and today I can build sites without any assistance.Get a book on html.If you reside in Lagos go to computer village and u will get some computer video tutorials on dreamweaver, flash etc.Today I design my sites with dreamweaver, swishmax, fireworks, frontpage etc. The first job I just got fetched me 50K.

Go to Festoms Educational Services(Computer Institute)

For basic & Advanced webdesign and Management{PHP & MySQL, Database, membership website} those sites that requires people to register,login etc,

Zhaddiah plaza (opposite world evangelism bible church)

1, emmanuel high street

Ogudu rd, ojota lagos

For further enquiries

call 08024914653, webexplicit@yahoo.com, festomsng2005@yahoo.com

Go to Festoms Educational Services at Ojota, Lagos

www.festoms.com

G. come to us,we'l certainly make u a guru at our training dept. u can also download our tuturials

www.synchrosoft-ng.com

You can visit Techlevels Computers at 176, Abeokuta Express way, Opposite First Bank, Iyana Ipaja, Lagos.
They are good at that and will be willing to put you through the details.
OR
Visit their website @
http://www.techlevels.com.ng
Call/SMS:08029600011

I was learning web design and dev but stopped halfway. I would like to go back to it cos I still have some interest in it. But I don't knw if web designers still make money from it in Nigeria today.

Also if you are a web designer, how much will you charge to train a person? I'm not a complete novice, though. So considering that, how much will it be