@ OP The thread is closed now.

Yes my sister we one regardless. Luv u.
Ka anyi tebe egwu 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9JtUN4jyeI&feature=related

Thread closed.

First, a bit of history would do some good;

Port Harcourt originally known as 'igweocha' before the colonial secretary then Vistus Harcourt got permission from the then governor general, Lugard to rename it. This happened in 1912. Igweocha as it was known then was an 'IGBO' settlement as the people you call landlords today i.e the Ikwerre people were the ones to settle there first. The issue of whether it is an Igbo town or not remains complex as the ikwerres 'emselves don't entirely give in to the fact that they are an' ethnic stock with ''Igbo viens" runnin' in their blood, which inversly means that they re Igbo!

For those of us that understand Igbo, what does 'Igweocha' mean?

obiem:

First, a bit of history would do some good;

Port Harcourt originally known as 'igweocha' before the colonial secretary then Vistus Harcourt got permission from the then governor general, Lugard to rename it. This happened in 1912. Igweocha as it was known then was an 'IGBO' settlement as the people you call landlords today i.e the Ikwerre people were the ones to settle there first. The issue of whether it is an Igbo town or not remains complex as the ikwerres 'emselves don't entirely give in to the fact that they are an' ethnic stock with ''Igbo viens" runnin' in their blood, which inversly means that they re Igbo!

For those of us that understand Igbo, what does 'Igweocha' mean?

'Igwe' means 'most high', 'ocha' means 'white', so Igweocha can be seen as the 'white man's frontier' or less formally 'were the white man is met', 'the white mans start' 'the town populated with white people' etc. They probably named it this because Europeans had not encroached on Igbo territory as they have done for most people in the world, so Port Harcourt must have been the start of the Igbo land the white man had populace or had more control of. Thats how I see it.

Igwe could also mean multitude. Igweocha could mean where multitude of white people settled. It is predominantly owned by the Igbo people of Ikwerre stock. However, a section of Port Harcourt belongs to the Okrika people.

ezeagu:

'Igwe' means 'most high', 'ocha' means 'white', so Igweocha can be seen as the 'white man's frontier' or less formally 'were the white man is met', 'the white mans start' 'the town populated with white people' etc. They probably named it this because Europeans had not encroached on Igbo territory as they have done for most people in the world, so Port Harcourt must have been the start of the Igbo land the white man had populace or had more control of. Thats how I see it.

Andre Uweh:

Igwe could also mean multitude. Igweocha could mean where multitude of white people settled. It is predominantly owned by the Igbo people of Ikwerre stock. However, a section of Port Harcourt belongs to the Okrika people.

both of u should keep fooling yourselves

Chief na2day?

Sir what is your point?

german007:

Chief na2day?

Sir what is your point?

my point is simple, just like many places around the world, PH and many other places had indigenous folks but the igbo tribe who are a well traveled ppl got there and mingled with the ppl and settled there, that's why they are referred to as "settlers" and the fact the original occupants are not toatally extinct, u can not claim it to be igbo land period!, u can say it is "igbo settlers" resting place or something but not owned by them. when settlers start to claim the land of their dwelling, it never ends well around the world

Point taken sir

na2day?:

both of u should keep fooling yourselves

You are the one really fooling yourself here. If your Igbo is better than mine, just let N/landers know the meaning of Igweocha. I am not concerned with the hinterland Igbo arrival in PH but the natural inhabitants of PH i.e the Ikwerre Igbo.

Na2day
So are u calling Ikwerre people settlers?

@udezue

kọwe ihe gị na kwu ?

na2day?:

both of u should keep fooling yourselves 

Don't reply to me with foolishness, blockos head.

Andre Uweh:

You are the one really fooling yourself here. If your Igbo is better than mine, just let N/landers know the meaning of Igweocha. I am not concerned with the hinterland Igbo arrival in PH but the natural inhabitants of PH i.e the Ikwerre Igbo.

When someone is down in an argument, they sometimes resort to taunts. That is the real meaning of BLOCKOS.

It can't be "multitude" because the tone arrangement of "Igwe" in reference to "multitude" is LL (low low), while the tone arrangement you hear in "Igwe Ocha" is HH (high high). It also can't be "most high", because the tone arrangement for "Igwe" in reference to "most high" is HM (high mid), or am I mistaking. . .?

Anyway, I know Igwe Ocha by a different name (Igu Ocha). That's the name we have for it, where I'm from, in reference to the actual costal zone. That's also the reason I asked where people got Igwe Ocha from, because I hadn't come across that name, until I read this topic. So, until recently, I've always known Igu Ocha as the only name, referencing to that coastal zone.

I'm still interested in knowing if any oral traditions of Bonny tell of peoples who were either already settled there, or who settled at the same time, or later. Na2day?, do you happen to have any information on this?

native ikwerres know that it is also called igwe ocha.

na2day?:

my point is simple, just like many places around the world, PH and many other places had indigenous folks but the igbo tribe who are a well traveled ppl got there and mingled with the ppl and settled there, that's why they are referred to as "settlers" and the fact the original occupants are not toatally extinct, u can not claim it to be igbo land period!, u can say it is "igbo settlers" resting place or something but not owned by them. when settlers start to claim the land of their dwelling, it never ends well around the world

i dont know if you are from southwest.is ilesha a yoruba town or an ijesa town?is aba an ngwa town or igbo town?is port harcourt an ikwerre town or igbo town?

the indigenous folks in port harcourt are ikwerres who happen to be igbos(like igbos).another 15% is okrika and kalabari who are ijaws(like ijaws)

Abagworo
God bless you. This same message is what we have been preaching to them since the starting of this thread, yet they will not understand. I am sure, this is the best way to close this thread. You have done justice to the topic.

ChinenyeN:

It can't be "multitude" because the tone arrangement of "Igwe" in reference to "multitude" is LL (low low), while the tone arrangement you hear in "Igwe Ocha" is HH (high high). It also can't be "most high", because the tone arrangement for "Igwe" in reference to "most high" is HM (high mid), or am I mistaking. . .?

Anyway, I know Igwe Ocha by a different name (Igu Ocha). That's the name we have for it, where I'm from, in reference to the actual costal zone. That's also the reason I asked where people got Igwe Ocha from, because I hadn't come across that name, until I read this topic. So, until recently, I've always known Igu Ocha as the only name, referencing to that coastal zone.

I'm still interested in knowing if any oral traditions of Bonny tell of peoples who were either already settled there, or who settled at the same time, or later. Na2day?, do you happen to have any information on this?

You're right, that's the original name along with 'Diobu' (an Ikwerre people who's land Port Harcourt was built on).

ezeagu:

You're right, that's the original name along with 'Diobu' (an Ikwerre people who's land Port Harcourt was built on).

Yeah, that's the place.

www.phcityonline.com for anything in PH

in yorubaland today there are many places called oke-oyinbo. oke is up or high and oyinbo is white man but oke-oyinbo would mean white mans hill or something like that. this would usually be an area where the native court and other administrative buildings would be located. i know of at least 5 in different states.
they are small districts not towns and have no real identity.
i struggle to see, though how the word oyinbo or ocha in igbo could have been part of the name of any town or district before the white man's arrival which suggests to me that that part of diobu that became known as igu ocha was either uninhabited or had another name that did not include the word ocha. i make no comment here about whether any previous name if any was in igbo or not but clearly iguocha is a name quite new i.e .not centuries old. compare this with many clearly old villages in port harcourt almost all have their names beginning with the prefix rumu-(there are a few that don't)e.g.eligbam,woji elikahia,ogbunabali which really are add-ons to port harcourt  much later but have occupied their locations long before port harcourt was named.it is note worthy that it was the terminal for a rail line for coal and the outlet into the atlantic through which this coal .was exported. diobu about a  mile away rapidly developed into a major trading hub which was dominated by igbo traders not of ikwerre origin. the ikwerres were not and are not noted for their entrepreneurial acumen. they are noted for other things. the other thing worth mentioning is there were several riverine ethnic groups occupying many of the waterfronts of what is now port harcourt e.g. okrikas,kalabaris.

whether or not the ikwerres are igbo i don't know but it is clear that by the time of the civil war diobu and that part of port harcout was dominated by igbos who were not ikwerre who were forced to flee because of the war and consequently lost a lot of property. this confirms one thing whether or not the ikwerres are igbo they did not have any qualms about taking over their property and this was justified by rhetoric that revealed deep animosity.in fact another prominent ikwerre son fought on the side of nigeria. i do not believe all of this can be brushed aside by polemics. clearly the matter remains a very raw one for many igbos and this makes if difficult to accept alternative perspectives. i think it is important when presenting ideas that might be hurtful to do this in a way that is sensitive and respectful. above everything we must always respect the igbos no matter what and i hereby express my utmost regard.i do not suggest anyone change their minds but i think all of us need to learn how to listen with tolerance to ideas with which we have a visceral disagreement. that is the only way to live in peace

aribisala0:

in yorubaland today there are many places called oke-oyinbo. oke is up or high and oyinbo is white man but oke-oyinbo would mean white mans hill or something like that. this would usually be an area where the native court and other administrative buildings would be located. i know of at least 5 in different states.
they are small districts not towns and have no real identity.
i struggle to see, though how the word oyinbo or ocha in igbo could have been part of the name of any town or district before the white man's arrival which suggests to me that that part of diobu that became known as igu ocha was either uninhabited or had another name that did not include the word ocha. i make no comment here about whether any previous name if any was in igbo or not but clearly iguocha is a name quite new i.e .not centuries old. compare this with many clearly old villages in port harcourt almost all have their names beginning with the prefix rumu-(there are a few that don't)e.g.eligbam,woji elikahia,ogbunabali which really are add-ons to port harcourt  much later but have occupied their locations long before port harcourt was named.it is note worthy that it was the terminal for a rail line for coal and the outlet into the atlantic through which this coal .was exported. diobu about a  mile away rapidly developed into a major trading hub which was dominated by igbo traders not of ikwerre origin. the ikwerres were not and are not noted for their entrepreneurial acumen. they are noted for other things. the other thing worth mentioning is there were several riverine ethnic groups occupying many of the waterfronts of what is now port harcourt e.g. okrikas,kalabaris.

whether or not the ikwerres are igbo i don't know but it is clear that by the time of the civil war diobu and that part of port harcout was dominated by igbos who were not ikwerre who were forced to flee because of the war and consequently lost a lot of property. this confirms one thing whether or not the ikwerres are igbo they did not have any qualms about taking over their property and this was justified by rhetoric that revealed deep animosity.in fact another prominent ikwerre son fought on the side of nigeria. i do not believe all of this can be brushed aside by polemics. clearly the matter remains a very raw one for many igbos and this makes if difficult to accept alternative perspectives. i think it is important when presenting ideas that might be hurtful to do this in a way that is sensitive and respectful. above everything we must always respect the igbos no matter what and i hereby express my utmost regard.i do not suggest anyone change their minds but i think all of us need to learn how to listen with tolerance to ideas with which we have a visceral disagreement. that is the only way to live in peace

Ugwu ocha does not mean 'White man's hill', it means 'white cliffs', as in the white cliffs near the port of Diobu. It was Frederick Lugard who first wrote down Port Harcourt's name as 'Iguocha'. There was never a port connecting the Igbo people in what is now Port Harcourt, to the rest of the word and 'oyinbo'

If any name is new, it would be "Igwe Ocha" and Port Harcourt. Iguocha though, has its place in antiquity, referring particularly to the coastline/coastal zone. It has nothing to do with white people. I've not heard "Ugwu ocha" before. Who calls it that?

By the way, Aribisala, I hope you're not taking the term "ocha" to particularly mean "white man". It actually doesn't. Ocha just means white/clean/dazzling (all referring to the emissive/reflective, or shining nature of light. It's an adjective. Coastal zones/coastlines have a particularly dazzling/glistening nature.

ezeagu:

Ugwu ocha does not mean 'White man's hill', it means 'white cliffs', as in the white cliffs near the port of Diobu. It was Frederick Lugard who first wrote down Port Harcourt's name as 'Iguocha'. There was never a port connecting the Igbo people in what is now Port Harcourt, to the rest of the word and 'oyinbo'

sir i appreciate your answer but it raises more questions than it answers,
firstly regarding the meaning of iguocha you say it means white cliffs and you say this with such categorical certainty that every other igbo person should agree sadly there has been a lot of disagreement about is it iguocha or igwe ocha. the other question is this was iguocha a settlement??. i will like to learn more but all the evidence seems to suggest that it was not. there is no history of forced or voluntary evacuation . regarding diobu the port of port harcourt is quite a distance from diobu closer to borokiri and in an area that cannot be completely claimed by ikwerre people.
finally i  do not understand your point about lugard.
a)did he ever visit port harcourt? i do not know  maybe you do
b)even more importantly what happened before he wrote down the name

a lot of people have come here claiming that the original name of port harcourt was iguocha.
now we seem to agree that this is incorrect and it was just uninhabited cliffs that were known as iguocha all the surrounding towns and villages of diobu rebisi borokiri,abuloma etc already had names which were not  iguocha. is this the case or do you have a different version of events.
finally sir it is my practice to always ask  HOW DO YOU KNOW?? it is not an insult please tell me

What i see about port-hacourt is that it is not entirely owned by Ikwerres. Though like 80% belongs to Ikwerres. Places like Abuloma , Okrika etc are owned by Ijaws, I still prefer calling PH a semi-Igbo city rather than an Igbo city.

Must we seriously rehash this issue over and over and over again? The fact of the matter is that Port Harcourt developed largely from farmlands owned by the coastal town of Diobu as well as some fishing settlements of Borokiri Okrika. The term 'Iguocha' is just a name used to describe that whole coastal area/zone. It is not a settlement, just part of Diobu land. I don't understand what the difficulty is in understanding this, and why people must continue harping on this actually non-existent boundary issue (non-existent, because the actual people concerned aren't even having this discussion; its always got to be an outsider trying to contest this topic).

ChinenyeN:

Must we seriously rehash this issue over and over and over again? The fact of the matter is that Port Harcourt developed largely from farmlands owned by the coastal town of Diobu as well as some fishing settlements of Borokiri Okrika. The term 'Iguocha' is just a name used to describe that whole coastal area/zone. It is not a settlement, just part of Diobu land. I don't understand what the difficulty is in understanding this, and why people must continue harping on this actually non-existent boundary issue (non-existent, because the actual people concerned aren't even having this discussion; its always got to be an outsider trying to contest this topic).

GBAM

deekseen:
Ikwerre language is completely igbo( a variety of igbo, that is . . . just as there are other varieties across the east) but no Ikwerre man nor his land is Igbo. The Ikwerres have to communicate and distinguish themselves from the Igbos, hence the 'R' at the beginning of some names and other changes both in spelling and pronunciation. We have English as the most widely spoken language here in Nigeria, so we're now English abi? We even went further to develop our own brand of English (Nigerian English) to distinguish it from the Englishman's brand.

Anyone saying Ikwerre as a tribe is Igbo should very well go down to Opobo and divide the land in three - Efik, Ibani and Igbo. Or should say Kalabari belongs to Okirika or vice-versa.

Ibime and a few others have being right all along - Port Harcourt has grown beyond its original territory and now extends from the Okirika / Kalabari dominated areas to Ikwerre dominated areas (Obio / Akpor). As a matter of fact Port Harcourt (Town) is a central dwelling place for all Rivers people.

Now, i want someone to say that Okirika is also an Igboland since till this present day they still use Igbo dialect to describe things. Like: ngaji - spoon, aziza - broom, akpa - bag, Opara - First male child, Ada - First female child, Ngozi - to describe multiple births like Twins (as a form of blessing) and they still have names like Imama - Thanks, to mention a few. This is the same reason Borokiri (Fishing Port in Okirika) had an Igbo name in the first place.

It's very funny for people to say someone from one tribe, because of his political influence, can change the spelling and pronunciation of names in another tribe. He cannot even effect a change, on his own, in his own tribe - Na him create the tribe? If it was possible, since Yorubas and Hausas have had more political influence than any other tribal sect, then we should be having names like Okeshuku instead of Okechukwu and so on.

As it stands today, Port Harcourt has more land in Ikwerre dominated areas but Port Harcourt is tribeless. It's for the Rivers people.

It beats me to see people come here to try to deceive others with pig-shit facts.

Oga how and when did Borikiri had an Igbo name, why do people come online to showcase their ignorance. Borikiri is an Ijoid dialect meaning fishing settlement. Ijoid dialect refers to Igbani, Okrika, Kalabari, Nembe etc.

ow11:


The people are just homeless they go to the north ( they get killed), they go to Lagos and want be governor now they have come to portharcourt. Please what is wrong with Owerri, Aba, Afikpo,Enugu, NNewi,Orlu, Umuahia, Awka, Nsukka, Obolloafor _{the list goes on}? Just live in a place quietly and stop stirring controversies with ur hosts!

I don't get it, why do igbos keep strugling with others for ownership of a place they travelled several killometer away from their place of origin to settle

Ibime:
egheleghe, na native wrestling logic wey you dey use create argument for Nairaland?




It is a well known fact that Igwe Ocha or 'Borokiri' as the Okrikas call it was the first settlement in PH. Igwe Ocha or Borokiri was sold by the Amanyanabo of Okrika to the British and these transactions are recorded for anyone who wishes to check. PH started at the Wharf in Borokiri and only later spread out into Ikwerre lands. Borokiri was no swamp. Aggrey Road is part of Borokiri and was the administrative centre of old PH. Any claim to the northern part of PH is between the Ikwerres and Igbos to fight over, but history clearly shows that PH started in lands sold by the Okrika to the British. The fact that lands such as Lagos waterside, Bundu waterside and the land at the back of Comprehensive Secondary School were later reclaimed from swamp does not mean that the larger portion of Okrika-owned Borokiri did not exist. Infact, the original PH was built on Okrika-owned land in Borokiri.

Why are you wasting your data for Igbo land grabbers, anywhere they go they want to ride on the original owners, Igbos please learn to develop ur places

if ijaws and igbos can unite and give themselves only one name eg Ijogbo or Igbojaw/Igbojo there wouldnt be a need for the everlasting question of who owns Port Harcourt.

cany say I'm too convinced Bonny is derived from Ibani though not to say it's not possible. However, Bonny is also a very common Scottish or English word. Quite a coincidence, imo.

Bonny is originaly called Igbani an Ijaw name , but the Igbos twisted it to Ubani

aribisala0:
in yorubaland today there are many places called oke-oyinbo. oke is up or high and oyinbo is white man but oke-oyinbo would mean white mans hill or something like that. this would usually be an area where the native court and other administrative buildings would be located. i know of at least 5 in different states.
they are small districts not towns and have no real identity.
i struggle to see, though how the word oyinbo or ocha in igbo could have been part of the name of any town or district before the white man's arrival which suggests to me that that part of diobu that became known as igu ocha was either uninhabited or had another name that did not include the word ocha. i make no comment here about whether any previous name if any was in igbo or not but clearly iguocha is a name quite new i.e .not centuries old. compare this with many clearly old villages in port harcourt almost all have their names beginning with the prefix rumu-(there are a few that don't)e.g.eligbam,woji elikahia,ogbunabali which really are add-ons to port harcourt  much later but have occupied their locations long before port harcourt was named.it is note worthy that it was the terminal for a rail line for coal and the outlet into the atlantic through which this coal .was exported. diobu about a  mile away rapidly developed into a major trading hub which was dominated by igbo traders not of ikwerre origin. the ikwerres were not and are not noted for their entrepreneurial acumen. they are noted for other things. the other thing worth mentioning is there were several riverine ethnic groups occupying many of the waterfronts of what is now port harcourt e.g. okrikas,kalabaris.

whether or not the ikwerres are igbo i don't know but it is clear that by the time of the civil war diobu and that part of port harcout was dominated by igbos who were not ikwerre who were forced to flee because of the war and consequently lost a lot of property. this confirms one thing whether or not the ikwerres are igbo they did not have any qualms about taking over their property and this was justified by rhetoric that revealed deep animosity.in fact another prominent ikwerre son fought on the side of nigeria. i do not believe all of this can be brushed aside by polemics. clearly the matter remains a very raw one for many igbos and this makes if difficult to accept alternative perspectives. i think it is important when presenting ideas that might be hurtful to do this in a way that is sensitive and respectful. above everything we must always respect the igbos no matter what and i hereby express my utmost regard.i do not suggest anyone change their minds but i think all of us need to learn how to listen with tolerance to ideas with which we have a visceral disagreement. that is the only way to live in peace

The Rumus are the add-ons in PH point of correction, 90% of all the rumus are not found in PH, they are in obio akpor lga strangers always think once they cross Imo river they are in Port harcourt, its so crazy having strangers making contribution to history concerning PH