Seeing as Yoruba and Itsekiri are very closely related (some Yoruba dialects are extremely similar to Itsekiri), why couldn't it mean the same thing in both?    "Ibinu" in Yoruba simply means "vexation."


You just like to argue.

nah, maybe you guys should be clear with your posts. emmatok said bini is from itsekhiri ubinu.  if he had said, bini is from yoruba "ile ibinu." i would not have bothered to respond coz that would be likely true since the origin of the word was from oranmiyan.

but lets say ijaw come with their variant of bini which is beni, should we then say bini is from ijaw beni? and if the ijaws start claiming that, would u agree to it?

exotik:

^ no, you are the one who dont get it. and i dont care what the itsekhiri speak if it they are yoruba or not. the olukumi speak what is yoruboid but they are igbo.

Olukumi is an old dialect of yoruba

exotik:

nah, maybe you guys should be clear with your posts. emmatok said bini is from itsekhiri ubinu.  if he had said, bini is from yoruba "ile ibinu." i would not have bothered to respond coz that would be likely true since the origin of the word was from oranmiyan.

but lets say ijaw come with their variant of bini which is beni, should we then say bini is from ijaw beni? and if the ijaws start claiming that, would u agree to it?

Itsekiri are Yorubas !!!

Beni is a nupe group so why not track bini to there.

Or go with birnin from the northern hausas.

^^
no i prefer the ijaw beni coz they are ryt in my backyard. coz like they say, "wetin u dey find go for sokoto, dey for shokoto"

emmatok:

Olukumi is an old dialect of yoruba

yet they identify as igbo in anioma

Itsekiri are Yorubas !!!

and yorubas are arabs!!!

Oramiyan was Bini,not yoruba. His mother was yoruba but his father, Oduduwa, was a clean-cut Bini man. Stop with the revisions people!

Chyz*:

Oramiyan was Bini,not yoruba. His mother was yoruba but his father, Oduduwa, was a clean-cut Bini man. Stop with the revisions people!

Oduduwa was not bini, he is Yoruba; some bini claim he was from bini and his name is Ekaladerhan

[b]"Oduduwa, phonetically written as Odùduwà, and sometimes contracted as Odudua, Oòdua, is generally held among the Yoruba to be the ancestor of the crowned Yoruba kings.

Several legends concerning the origin and ancestry of Oduduwa abound in Yoruba and Benin mythology. The Yorubas believe he is the father of the Yoruba’s and progenitor of all Yoruba Oba's and the Oba of Benin. The Benin believe that he is a Benin prince called EKALADERHAN who was banished by his father, the Ogiso of Benin. His name, the Benins claim, is derived from 'Idoduwa", a Benin word meaning fortune's path, symbolizing the painful exile from his ancestral home. In support of this, they claim, Oduduwa's son Oranmiyan later returned to Benin to rule the Empire around 1,000 AD. Oduduwa is believed to have had several sons (16 in number) who later became powerful traditional rulers of Yoruba land, most notably Alafin of Oyo, Oni of Ife, Oragun of Ila, Owa of Ilesha, Alake of Abeokuta and Osemawe of Ondo. Yoruba tradition holds that Oduduwa fled from Mecca to Ile-Ife, bringing with him the Ifa religion which was under persecution in Mecca. He established it firmly in Ile-Ife and founded the Ogboni cult to protect the ancient customs and institutions of his people. The Oduduwa shrine is still worshipped today in Ile-Ife as the cradle of Yoruba culture.

Oral history of the Oyo-Yoruba recount the coming of Oduduwa from the east, sometimes understood by Muslim sources as the "vicinity" or direction of Mecca, but more likely signifying the region of Ekiti and Okun sub-ethnics in northeastern Yorubaland/central Nigeria. A strong theory among the Yoruba is that Oduduwa came from the region of Egypt or Nubia and may have been fleeing from religious persecution or invasion, possibly coinciding with the Greek invasion and colonization of Egypt in the 4th century BCE. Oduduwa is presumed to have entered the Ekiti-Yoruba and Okun-Yoruba region. This region is near the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers, and is where the Yoruba language is presumed to have separated from related ethno-linguistic groups like Igala, Igbo, and Edo

The Ife oral traditions, on the other hand, tell that Odùduwà was the son of the supreme god Olodumare or Olorun, and was sent by him from heaven to create the earth. (Another version of this myth ascribes these episodes to Obatala, casting Oodua, as an usurper).

Descending from the heavens via a chain let down to Ile Ife, Obatala brought with him a cockerel, a pigeon, and a calabash full of dirt. After throwing the soil upon the waters, he set the cockerel and pigeon on the pile of dirt that, in turn, scratched and scattered it around to create the rest of dry land that became the Earth's surface.

Odùduwà  subsequently became one of the first kings of Ife, and then sent his sons out with crowns to rule over all of the other Yorùbá kingdoms, which is why all royal Yorùbá lineages claim direct descent from Odùduwà and refer to the Ooni of Ife as first among equals (popularly rendered in the Latin phrase primus inter pares in Nigeria).

Ile Ife continues to be considered the spiritual capital of the Yoruba"[/b]
http://www.coastalnews.com/component/content/article/120-nigeria-news/592-oduduwa-the-ancestor-of-the-crowned-yoruba-kings.html

[b]
Oduduwa Omoluabi, Olofin Adimula, Emperor of the Yoruba, phonetically written by his people as Odùduwà, and sometimes contracted as Odudua or Oòdua, is generally held among the Yoruba to be the reigning ancestor of the crowned Yoruba kings.[1]

NARRATIVE

Oral history of the Oyo-Yoruba recounts the coming of Oduduwa from the east, sometimes understood by some sources as the "vicinity" of Mecca, but more likely signifying the region of Ekiti and Okun sub-communities in northeastern Yorubaland/central Nigeria. Ekiti is near the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers, and is where the Yoruba language is presumed to have separated from related ethno-linguistic groupings like Igala, Igbo, and Edo.[3]

When Oduduwa arrived ancient Ife, he and his group are believed to have conquered the component communities and to have evolved the palace structure with its effective centralized power and dynasty. Going by the tribal records, he is commonly referred to as the first Ooni of Ife and progenitor of the Yoruba people.

Some oral traditions claim that Oduduwa was Olodumare's favourite orisha, and as such was sent from heaven to create the earth. This is generally seen as the Ife-Yoruba version of events, and is described in detail below.

EKALADERHAN
Alternatively, the Benin believe that he was a prince that was banished by his father, the "Ogiso" of Benin. His name, they claim, is derived from "Idoduwa", meaning "fortune's path", symbolizing the painful exile from his ancestral home. In support of this view, they claim, Oduduwa's grandson Oranmiyan later returned to Benin to rule the Empire around 1,100 AD.[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa#Narrative

[b]"The African peoples who lived in Yorubaland, at least by the seventh century BC, were not initially known as the Yoruba, although they shared a common ethnicity and language group. Both archeology and traditional Yoruba oral historians confirm the existence of people in this region for several millennial. Yoruba spiritual heritage maintains that the Yoruba ethnic groups are a unique people who originally settled at Ile-Ife. Legend holds that Oduduwa created the world at this place by delegation from the high God, Eledumare. The name "Yoruba" is an adaptation of "euroba" (arabism). Yoruba civilization remains one of the most technologically and artistically advanced in West Africa to this time.

Some contemporary historians contend that the leading Yoruba are not indigenous to Yorubaland, but are descendants of immigrants from the ancient Near East to the region. According to the dynastic tradition of Oyo, the people left Mecca, under whose leadership of Oduduwa and reached Yorubaland towards 600 BCE where they established the kingdom of Ife.[1] Oduduwa's relatives established kingdoms in the rest of Yorubaland. One of Oduduwa's sons, Oranmiyan, took the throne of Benin and expanded the Oduduwa Dynasty eastwards. Further expansion led to the establishment of the Yoruba in what are now Southwest Nigeria, Benin, and Togo, with Yoruba city-states acknowledging the spiritual heritage primacy of the ancient city of Ile Ife. The southeastern Benin Empire, ruled by a dynasty that traced its ancestry to Ifẹ and Oduduwa but largely populated by the Edo and other related ethnicities, also held considerable sway in the election of nobles and kings in eastern Yorùbáland."[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Yoruba_people

exotik:


and yorubas are arabs!!!

no matter how you spin this the itsekiri's are a tribe of mixed origin but they have a significant yoruba ancestry

ITSEKIRI
"The Itsekiri monarch is known by the title 'Olu of Warri'. The Itsekiris speak a language very closely akin to Yoruba and Igala but which has also been significantly influenced by other languages particularly Portuguese, Edo (Benin), English and a few borrowings from neighbouring Ijo and Urhobo languages. Although linguistically related to the Yoruba ethnic group, however, the Itsekiris are of very mixed ethnic origins (primarily of Yoruba (Ijebu, Ilaje,Ondo and Owo), Edo, Igala, Urhobo,Ijo and Anglo-Scottish and Portuguese descent) and are today mainly Christian (Protestant and Roman Catholic) by religion"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsekiri_people

I never heard yoruba's say they are from the Arab race but I have heard the Mecca claim though from some muslim Yoruba's and the Egyptian connection & claim from non-muslim yoruba's:
"The palace traditionists of Oyo claim that the Yoruba originated from Mecca. In the course of a monotheistic uprising the king Lamarudu is said to have been slain by the people of Braima. However, the crown-prince Oduduwa was able to flee with numerous followers and to find his way to the region of Lake Tchad, to Gobir and then to a spot further south were he founded the city of Ile-Ife.[2] The validity of this account is confirmed by Muhammed Bello who wrote in 1812 CE that the "people of Yoruba are descendants from the Canaanites of the kindred of Nimrod" and that they were driven out "of Iraq, whence they travelled westward and then (southward] to Egypt, Ethiopia until they finally reached Yoruba""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire

@anonymous6,

Where in yoruba land was Oduduwa from? Pls, don't give me Ife, the place where he came to rule. Also, what is the meaning of Oduduwa in yoruba?

Do take in mind we are know he didn't literally came down from the sky/heavens like claim by mythology. The "came down from the heavens" more than likely is a metaphor for "he came from somewhere else". The other the other saying of he came from the east also supports that the claim of him coming from Benin area. Of course this is excluding the whole mecca claim which was constructed by muslims.

no matter how you spin this the itsekiri's are a tribe of mixed origin but they have a significant yoruba ancestry

hmmm, i cant remember saying otherwise coz there is no tribe does not have mixed origin in nigeria. but do they identify as yoruba?

anonymous6:


ITSEKIRI
"The Itsekiri monarch is known by the title 'Olu of Warri'. The Itsekiris speak a language very closely akin to Yoruba and Igala but which has also been significantly influenced by other languages particularly Portuguese, Edo (Benin), English and a few borrowings from neighbouring Ijo and Urhobo languages. Although linguistically related to the Yoruba ethnic group, however, the Itsekiris are of very mixed ethnic origins (primarily of Yoruba (Ijebu, Ilaje,Ondo and Owo), Edo, Igala, Urhobo,Ijo and Anglo-Scottish and Portuguese descent) and are today mainly Christian (Protestant and Roman Catholic) by religion"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsekiri_people

wow!! a lot of mixture going on in there but where in the article did they say they are yoruba? it only says they are close akin to not only yoruba but with igala

and this is what the igalas had to say:

Igala are an ethnic group of Nigeria. Igala practice a number of different religions, including animism, Christianity, and Islam.

The home of the Igala people is situated east of the river Niger and Benue confluence and astride the Niger in Lokoja, Kogi state of Nigeria. The area is approximately between latitude 6°30 and 8°40 north and longitude 6°30 and 7°40 east and covers an area of about 13,665 square kilometers (Oguagha P.A 1981) The Igala population is estimated at two million, they can also be found in Delta, Anambra and Edo States of Nigeria. The Igala language is closely related to the Yoruba and Itsekiri languages.

^^^

as u can see ryt there, the yoruba and itsekiri langauges are clearly seperated.

exotik:

^^
no i prefer the ijaw beni coz they are ryt in my backyard. coz like they say, "wetin u dey find go for sokoto, dey for shokoto"

yet they identify as igbo in anioma

and yorubas are arabs!!!

About four major Igbo dialects are spoken in Anioma and include Enuani, Ukwuani, Ika and Abor. Other languages spoken are: Ishan, Ozzara, Olukunmi (Old and extinct Yoruba language) [/b]and Igala.

The Awujale of Ijebu land has shown that the Ijebus are descended from ancient Nubia (a colony of Egypt). He was able to use the evidence of language, body, scarification, coronation rituals that are similar to Nubians’ etc, to show that the Ijebus are descendants of the Nubians. What the present Awujale claimed for the Ijebus, can be authenticated all over Yoruba land. [b]The Awujale even mentioned (2004) that the Itsekiri (an eastern Yoruba dialect) are speaking the original Ijebu language.

Since the Nubians were descended or colonized by the Egyptians, the Ijebu, and by extension, all Yoruba customs, derived from the Egyptian. Many traditional Yorubas have always claimed Egypt as their place of original abode, and that their monarchical tradition derives from the Egyptians’. Apostle Atigbiofor Atsuliaghan, a high priest of Umale-Okun, and a direct descendant of Orunmila, claimed that the Yorubas left Egypt as a result of a big war that engulfed the whole of Egypt. He said the Egyptian remnants settled in various places, two important places being Ode Itsekiri and Ile-Ife.Chief O.N Rewane says “Oral tradition has it also that when the Yorubas came from South of Egypt they did not go straight to where they now occupy. They settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area – Ebu, Olukumi Ukwunzu while some settled at Ode-Itsekiri,.” (O.N. Rewane Royalty Magazine A PICTORIAL SOUVENIR OF THE BURIAL AND CORONATION OF OLU OF WARRI, WARRI 1987)

The present writers tend to place the origin of the Yoruba monarchy in ancient Egypt and Nubia. This is because a lot of Egyptian related relics, words and practices can still be discerned among the Yorubas, particularly among the following: Ife (where the Ifa oracle and Yoruba monarchical system blossomed); Ijebu (with some ancient settlements; Ijebu Ode, the seat of the Awujale, Ode, the seat of Lenuwa, in present day Ogun Water side Local Government, Oke-Eri, purported to be the home of the biblical queen of Sheba, called Bilikisu in Ijebu legends), Ugbo, the ancient city of the Ilajes, Idanre (the home of Ogun, the god of iron), all show some similarities and identities in their monarchical and religious authorities.Basil Davidson, Olumide Lucas, Tariqh Sawandi, and even the present Awujale of Ijebu land, have pointed to ancient Egypt or Nubia as the origin of Yoruba monarchical system. All the above have used the similarities or the identities of cultural practices to substantiate their claims.

http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

exotik:

hmmm, i cant remember saying otherwise coz there is no tribe does not have mixed origin in nigeria. but do they identify as yoruba?

wow!! a lot of mixture going on in there but where in the article did they say they are yoruba? it only says they are close akin to not only yoruba but with igala

and this is what the igalas had to say:

Igala are an ethnic group of Nigeria. Igala practice a number of different religions, including animism, Christianity, and Islam.

The home of the Igala people is situated east of the river Niger and Benue confluence and astride the Niger in Lokoja, Kogi state of Nigeria. The area is approximately between latitude 6°30 and 8°40 north and longitude 6°30 and 7°40 east and covers an area of about 13,665 square kilometers (Oguagha P.A 1981) The Igala population is estimated at two million, they can also be found in Delta, Anambra and Edo States of Nigeria. The Igala language is closely related to the Yoruba and Itsekiri languages.

^^^

as u can see ryt there, the yoruba and itsekiri langauges are clearly seperated.

The Awujale even mentioned (2004) that the Itsekiri (an eastern Yoruba dialect) are speaking the original Ijebu language.

Oral tradition has it also that when the Yorubas came from South of Egypt they did not go straight to where they now occupy. They settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area – Ebu, Olukumi Ukwunzu while some settled at[b] Ode-Itsekiri( The Itsekiri's historical capital)[/b],.”

OK?

Chyz*:

@anonymous6,

Where in yoruba land was Oduduwa from? Pls, don't give me Ife, the place where he came to rule. Also, what is the meaning of Oduduwa in yoruba?

Do take in mind we are know he didn't literally came down from the sky/heavens like claim by mythology. The "came down from the heavens" more than likely is a metaphor for "he came from somewhere else". The other the other saying of he came from the east also supports that the claim of him coming from Benin area. Of course this is excluding the whole mecca claim which was constructed by muslims.

[b]I don't believe ODUDUWA came from Benin(you want to believe that) Or Mecca but he may have been to mecca at one point. however I don't believe he came from the sky either; the only others that say he is from the east and supports that he is from Benin, are the benins themselves. the yoruba's have said differently(they say he from the east but not from Benin) & it has nothing to do with Muslims but I feel the muslims say alot about it because of the homeland of Mecca is connected to them. I have heard the yoruba's have migrated from a southern tribe in Egypt & I beleive that theory more. From my experience from what I have heard from benins & Yoruba's is that we are connected through a common paternal ancestral line which is Oduduwa but the dispute that always comes up between the two tribes is who came from who. Some Benins believe yoruba came from Benins and Yoruba's believe benins came from the Yoruba's.

The benins & yoruba's will always but heads with this story of whether Oduduwa is Benin or Yoruba and depending on what tribe you are in you will believe either or but I think it is unfair to criticise Yoruba's view of where Oduduwa came from; the sky when the benins believe that their ancestors came from the sky as well:[/b]

"Thus the Edo people believe that their kings come from the sky or more appropriately, from Heaven or from God. It is this belief which explains why the Oba or king is the embodiment of the culture of the Edo people.  The story of the people cannot be written without reference to their king or Oba. Indeed, everything revolves round the Oba.""
http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub55.htm

anonymous6:

I don't believe he came from Benin, you want to believe that, however I don't believe he came from the sky either; the only others that say he is from the east and supports that he is from Benin, are the benins themselves, the yoruba's have said differently & it has nothing to do with Muslims but I feel the muslims say alot because of the homeland of Mecca is connected to them. I have heard the yoruba's have migrated from a southern tribe in Egypt. From my experience from what I have heard from benins & Yoruba's is that we are connected through a common ancestral line but the dispute always comes up between the two tribes who came from who. Some Benins believe yoruba came from them and Yoruba's believe benins came from the Yoruba's

Oduduwa migrated from Egypt, that is where the Yorubas learnt The 'Bronze Casting.

[b]Benin [/b]name never exist during that period.

emmatok:


Oduduwa migrated from Egypt, that is where the Yorubas learnt The 'Bronze Casting.

[b]Benin [/b]name never exist during that period.

I believe the bronze casting was unique to the Yoruba's and a few other tribes but I feel the influence behind it came from the Nok(but the Yoruba's advanced the technique to their own way which made it uniquely theres).  Egyptians had nothing to do with Yoruba's bronze casting technique. We must also understand that in the ancient times some techniques were founded on their own without the help or knowlegde of others. My belief is the Yoruba's ancestors which are the Nok were a migrated tribe from a southern tribe in Egypt.

people also need to understand that all tribes in Africa came from a common source; the first humans came from northeast or East africa before everybody in Africa seperated into different tribes and changed in appearance as well:
"In paleoanthropology, the recent African origin of modern humans is the most widely accepted model describing the origin and early dispersal of anatomically modern humans"
"The recent single origin of modern humans in East Africa is the predominant position held within the scientific community.["
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

anonymous6:

I don't believe ODUDUWA came from Benin(you want to believe that) Or Mecca but he may have been to mecca at one point. however I don't believe he came from the sky either; the only others that say he is from the east and supports that he is from Benin, are the benins themselves, the yoruba's have said differently(they say he from the east but not from Benin) & it has nothing to do with Muslims but I feel the muslims say alot about it because of the homeland of Mecca is connected to them. I have heard the yoruba's have migrated from a southern tribe in Egypt. From my experience from what I have heard from benins & Yoruba's is that we are connected through a common paternal ancestral line but the dispute that always comes up between the two tribes is who came from who. Some Benins believe yoruba came from Benins and Yoruba's believe benins came from the Yoruba's.

So to some it up, he is not yoruba. I'm glad you know that. By your right up I can tell that you know the Binis are right. There is nothing about their story that see far-fetched. They can pin point Odudwa back to a particular place. They are able to give his real name along with a bio with supporting evidence, the yoruba were unable to do such. Before Oduduwa came to Ife the Binis were bronze casting. Was there any bronze casting in ife before the arrival of oduduwa? If so, can you please provide the evidence?

Chyz*:

So to some it up, he is not yoruba. I'm glad you know that. By your right up I can tell that you know the Binis are right. There is nothing about their story that see far-fetched. They can pin point Odudwa back to a particular place. They are able to give his real name along with a bio with supporting evidence, the yoruba were unable to do such. Before Oduduwa came to Ife the Binis were bronze casting. Was there any bronze casting in ife before the arrival of oduduwa? If so, can you please provide the evidence?

No, I don't think the bini's are right, YOU DO; bini's are the only ones that tell that version of the story, Yoruba's have a very different version and for you to discount the yoruba's version that oduduwa came from the sky or the east from a non-benin land when Edo's also believe their ancestors came from the sky is hyprocritcal to me:

""Thus the Edo people believe that their kings come from the sky or more appropriately, from Heaven or from God. It is this belief which explains why the Oba or king is the embodiment of the culture of the Edo people.  The story of the people cannot be written without reference to their king or Oba. Indeed, everything revolves round the Oba."-"
http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub55.htm

"The original people and founders of the Benin Empire, the Edo people, were initially ruled by the Ogisos (Kings of the Sky) who called their land Igodomigodo."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire#Origin

Also the Nok had ability to do bronze casting to as well, and they existed way before the YORUBA'S and BENIN'S:
[b]"The Nok culture appeared in Nigeria around 1000 B.C. and mysteriously vanished around 500 AD in the region of West Africa. This region lies in Central Nigeria. The culture’s social system is thought to have been highly advanced. The Nok culture was considered to be the earliest sub-Saharan producer of life-sized Terracotta. It is acknowledged that the Nok civilization eventually evolved into the later Yoruba civilization of Ife. Nok works of art have been found to have uncanny lookalikes among later Yoruba Ife and Yoruba Esie brass, bronze, copper and soapstone figures.

The refinement of this culture is attested to by the image of a Nok dignitary at the Minneapolis Institute of Arts. The dignitary is portrayed wearing a "shepherds crook" affixed with an elastic material to the right arm ([3], [4]). The dignitary is also portrayed sitting with flared nostrils, and an open mouth suggesting performance.

Iron use, in smelting and forging for tools, appears in Nok culture in Africa at least by 550 BC and more probably in the middle of the second millennium BC (between 1400 BC and 1600 BC depending on references)"[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok_culture

[b]"Ife artists learned their skills from their Nok predecessors (though an intermediate culture between Nok and Ife has not yet been found)"
http://www.xenohistorian.faithweb.com/africa/af05.html#Top

emmatok:

The Awujale even mentioned (2004) that the Itsekiri (an eastern Yoruba dialect) are speaking the original Ijebu language.

Oral tradition has it also that when the Yorubas came from South of Egypt they did not go straight to where they now occupy. They settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area – Ebu, Olukumi Ukwunzu while some settled at[b] Ode-Itsekiri( The Itsekiri's historical capital)[/b],.”

OK?

so because the ewu-jale, a jebu-shyte said it, does that mean the itsekiris are also jebu-shytes? how about the jebu-shytes speaking an original itsekiri language? but anyways, all dat still do not answer the question. do the itsekiris identify as yoruba coz im yet to meet one who does both on the internet and in real-life.

U are very versatile. I get impressed by your vast knowledge on almost all subjects. Please, check your Box. Thanks

emmatok:


Oduduwa migrated from Egypt, that is where the Yorubas learnt The 'Bronze Casting.

[b]Benin [/b]name never exist during that period.

[b]THE ODUDUWAN REVOLUTION

In the first chapter, we talked about the aboriginal nature of the Yoruban peoples. In this chapter, we shall talk of a possible migration from ancient Egypt. Many traditions point to a fact that an alien group (Egyptians) immigrated to Yoruba land and mixed with the original population.

Many oral traditions are replete with these stories. The Awujale of Ijebu land has shown that the Ijebus are descended from ancient Nubia (a colony of Egypt). He was able to use the evidence of language, body, scarification, coronation rituals that are similar to Nubians’ etc, to show that the Ijebus are descendants of the Nubians. What the present Awujale claimed for the Ijebus, can be authenticated all over Yoruba land. The Awujale even mentioned (2004) that the Itsekiri (an eastern Yoruba dialect) are speaking the original Ijebu language.

Since the Nubians were descended or colonized by the Egyptians, the Ijebu, and by extension, all Yoruba customs, derived from the Egyptian. Many traditional Yorubas have always claimed Egypt as their place of original abode, and that their monarchical tradition derives from the Egyptians’. Apostle Atigbiofor Atsuliaghan, a high priest of Umale-Okun, and a direct descendant of Orunmila, claimed that the Yorubas left Egypt as a result of a big war that engulfed the whole of Egypt. He said the Egyptian remnants settled in various places, two important places being Ode Itsekiri and Ile-Ife.Chief O.N Rewane says “Oral tradition has it also that when the Yorubas came from South of Egypt they did not go straight to where they now occupy. They settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area – Ebu, Olukumi Ukwunzu while some settled at Ode-Itsekiri,.” (O.N. Rewane Royalty Magazine A PICTORIAL SOUVENIR OF THE BURIAL AND CORONATION OF OLU OF WARRI, WARRI 1987)

Since these oral traditions are passed on by very illiterate people, we can augment whatever is recorded with written sources. Concerning the migration of some of the Yoruban ancestors from the east, Conton says:

The Yoruba of Nigeria are believed by many modern historians to be descended from a people who were living on the banks of the Nile 2,000 years ago, and who were at the time in close contact with the Egyptians and the Jews. Sometime before AD 600, if this belief is correct, this people must have left their fertile lands, for reasons which we can not now discover and have joined in the ceaseless movement of tribes west wards and south-wards across our continent.

We can only guess at the many adventures they and their descendants must have had on their long journey and at the number of generations which passed before they arrived. All we can be certain about is that they were a Negro people (of which ancient Egypt probably had at least one community as we have seen) and that one of the many princely states they founded on their arrival in West Africa…, was Ife.’ Conton WF (1960. 71

Although we agree with Conton that some of the Yoruban ancestors migrated from Egypt, we tend to toe the scientific line of Cheik Anta Diop, that the ancient Egyptians were pure Negroes.

Aderibigbe, an indigenous scholar, also accepts that the Yorubas migrated from Egypt. He says:

“The general trend of these theories, most of them based on Yoruba traditions, is that of a possible origin from “the east”. Some scholars, impressed by the similarities between Yoruba and ancient Egyptian culture – religious observation, works of art, burial and other customs – speak of a possible migration of the ancestors of the Yoruba from the upper Nile (as early as 2000BC – 1000BC) as a result of some upheavals in ancient Egypt”. (AB ADERIBIGBE 1976)

Unlike Conton, Aderibigbe was able to pinpoint a cause for the Yoruban migration – war. Olumide Lucas did a lot of job to show similarities and identities between the ancient Egyptians and the Yoruban peoples. The date that Aderibigbe gave (2000BC – 1000BC) is much earlier than that given by Conton. Aderibigbe’s date corresponds to that of the Hyksos invasion of Egypt 2000-1500BC. On the possible eastern origin of the Yorubas, Tariqh Sawandi says:

"“The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population across the trans-African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger. Archaeologists, according to M. Omoleya, inform us that the Nigerian region was inhabited more than forty thousand years ago, or as far back as 65,000BC. During this period, the Nok culture occupied the region. The Nok culture was visited by the “Yoruba people”, between 2000BC and 500BC. This group of people was led, according to Yoruba historical accounts by king Oduduwa, who settled peacefully in the already established Ile-Ife, the sacred city of the indigenous Nok people. "[/b]
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

anonymous6:

No, I don't think the bini's are right you do; bini's are the only ones that tell that version of the story, Yoruba's have a very different version and for you to discount the yoruba's version that oduduwa came from the sky when Edo's also believe their ancestors came from the sky is hyprocritcal to me:

""Thus the Edo people believe that their kings come from the sky or more appropriately, from Heaven or from God. It is this belief which explains why the Oba or king is the embodiment of the culture of the Edo people.  The story of the people cannot be written without reference to their king or Oba. Indeed, everything revolves round the Oba."-"
http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub55.htm

Also the Nok had ability to do bronze casting to as well

I'm not getting your point. Are you saying that you will not believe/admit to the story and evidence of the binis because "they believe their kings came from the sky"? What if they said their kings were from Igboland would you then believe their story on oduduwa? Also, if it is a cultural practice of the binis to say there kings came from heaven then that supports even more their influence of practices and culture in Ife through oduduwa,a bini.

Did oduduwa create/give birth the yoruba people or were there already yorubas there?

About the Nok, we all know about them. There is a reason why Yorubas,Edos,Igbos,Idoma,Igala share some of the same language. What does the nok have to do with it though? I asked if there was broze casting in yoruba land before the arrival of oduduwa.

exotik:

so because the ewu-jale, a jebu-shyte said it, does that mean the itsekiris are also jebu-shytes? how about the jebu-shytes speaking an original itsekiri language? but anyways, all dat still do not answer the question. do the itsekiris identify as yoruba coz im yet to meet one who does both on the internet and in real-life.

LOL STOP THERE ,

And where are you going with your distortions, cos i know you are an IGBO MAN.

Read below.


It is evident that the Bini religious discourse was, and to some extent is, still infiltrated with Itsekiri and Ilaje. This is most evident in the water religion of the Binis.

From the above, we see that some of the most important aspects of the Bini civilization: their bead industry, the cult of Olokun (Olu Okun – King of the sea), their salt industry etc are from the eastern Yoruba land of Itsekiri and to some extent the Ilajes. Apart from this, the Itsekiri warrior, Ikaye, saved the Bini kingdom from being crushed by the Akures. For his settlement Oba Semede gave him Ologbo.
Again when there was leadership dispute between Obaseki and Aigwobasinwin, it was an Itsekiri chief, Dore Numa, who restored the Benin monarchy. He also gave them a lot of beads which the Bini aristocracy has not returned till today. It is therefore unthinkable that Ife, where the Yoruba kingship blossomed, would have copied from Benin. This is most evident when we consider the following facts: (I) The name, Oba (the Edo word for king), is copied from the Yorubas, particularly those from Ife (2) the heads of the Obas of Benin were taken to Ife, until very recently. The place where the heads of the Obas of Benin were buried is still called “Orun Oba Ado”, “the heaven of the kings of Benin”. (3) The Binis normally take permission from the Ooni, to crown new kings. There is no recorded history that the Oonis took permission from the Binis before getting crowned (4) The official language in the court of the Oba of Benin until 1934 was Yoruba. There was no time that Bini language was spoken in Ife. The Portuguese and other Europeans who were in the Bini area for more than 500 years (from 1486 when they got to Benin till 1960.)had no knowledge of Oduduwa being a Bini man.


A SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS OF THE MYTHS

1. Oduduwa – The myth of Oduduwa seems to be valid. Minus the fact that many Yoruba claim descent from Oduduwa, some Urhobos and even Ijaws also claim descent from Oduduwa.
2. Ekaladerhan – This name exists in very little, if at all it exists, in the oral tradition of any of the Bini neighbors. There has been no relevant oral tradition among any of the circumjacent peoples that can recognize Ekaladerhan or identify him as Oduduwa. So, the Ife claim concerning Oduduwa seems to be more tenable.


[b]MIGRATIONS

The first crop of migrants or southward push of the Egyptians took place about 2000BC – 500BC. The Hyksos invasion (2000-1500BC) caused some of these southward migrations. Many of the black Egyptians seemed to have moved to Yoruba land during this period. .

The second wave of migrations will correspond to what Laoye Sanda, of the department of Public Administration,The Polytechnic,Ibadan refers to as the black Nubian emigrants. The Nubians were black, they occupied present day Sudan, which was an integral part of the Egyptian Empire. The vocabulary, body scarification, and religious discourse resemble those of the Ijebus and more so, the Itsekiri.The 1984 Awujale’s coronation manual will make this manifest. These migrations occurred about 500BC.

A third wave of migration took place between 90BC and 30BC. The present writers feel the personality called Oduduwa, came in that migration trend.

A fourth migration will correspond to the Christian conquest of Egypt, about 100AD.

The last wave of migration will correspond to the Arab enforced emigration, between 700AD – 1100AD, when the Arabs had consolidated their control over Egypt; they chased the last batch of traditional worshipping Egyptians from Egypt. This occurrence would have led to many Yoruba claiming that their ancestors were chased from somewhere in the Middle East for not accepting Islam.

anonymous6:

[b]THE ODUDUWAN REVOLUTION

In the first chapter, we talked about the aboriginal nature of the Yoruban peoples. In this chapter, we shall talk of a possible migration from ancient Egypt. Many traditions point to a fact that an alien group (Egyptians) immigrated to Yoruba land and mixed with the original population.

Many oral traditions are replete with these stories. The Awujale of Ijebu land has shown that the Ijebus are descended from ancient Nubia (a colony of Egypt). He was able to use the evidence of language, body, scarification, coronation rituals that are similar to Nubians’ etc, to show that the Ijebus are descendants of the Nubians. What the present Awujale claimed for the Ijebus, can be authenticated all over Yoruba land. The Awujale even mentioned (2004) that the Itsekiri (an eastern Yoruba dialect) are speaking the original Ijebu language.

Since the Nubians were descended or colonized by the Egyptians, the Ijebu, and by extension, all Yoruba customs, derived from the Egyptian. Many traditional Yorubas have always claimed Egypt as their place of original abode, and that their monarchical tradition derives from the Egyptians’. Apostle Atigbiofor Atsuliaghan, a high priest of Umale-Okun, and a direct descendant of Orunmila, claimed that the Yorubas left Egypt as a result of a big war that engulfed the whole of Egypt. He said the Egyptian remnants settled in various places, two important places being Ode Itsekiri and Ile-Ife.Chief O.N Rewane says “Oral tradition has it also that when the Yorubas came from South of Egypt they did not go straight to where they now occupy. They settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area – Ebu, Olukumi Ukwunzu while some settled at Ode-Itsekiri,.” (O.N. Rewane Royalty Magazine A PICTORIAL SOUVENIR OF THE BURIAL AND CORONATION OF OLU OF WARRI, WARRI 1987)

Since these oral traditions are passed on by very illiterate people, we can augment whatever is recorded with written sources. Concerning the migration of some of the Yoruban ancestors from the east, Conton says:

The Yoruba of Nigeria are believed by many modern historians to be descended from a people who were living on the banks of the Nile 2,000 years ago, and who were at the time in close contact with the Egyptians and the Jews. Sometime before AD 600, if this belief is correct, this people must have left their fertile lands, for reasons which we can not now discover and have joined in the ceaseless movement of tribes west wards and south-wards across our continent.

We can only guess at the many adventures they and their descendants must have had on their long journey and at the number of generations which passed before they arrived. All we can be certain about is that they were a Negro people (of which ancient Egypt probably had at least one community as we have seen) and that one of the many princely states they founded on their arrival in West Africa…, was Ife.’ Conton WF (1960. 71

Although we agree with Conton that some of the Yoruban ancestors migrated from Egypt, we tend to toe the scientific line of Cheik Anta Diop, that the ancient Egyptians were pure Negroes.

Aderibigbe, an indigenous scholar, also accepts that the Yorubas migrated from Egypt. He says:

“The general trend of these theories, most of them based on Yoruba traditions, is that of a possible origin from “the east”. Some scholars, impressed by the similarities between Yoruba and ancient Egyptian culture – religious observation, works of art, burial and other customs – speak of a possible migration of the ancestors of the Yoruba from the upper Nile (as early as 2000BC – 1000BC) as a result of some upheavals in ancient Egypt”. (AB ADERIBIGBE 1976)

Unlike Conton, Aderibigbe was able to pinpoint a cause for the Yoruban migration – war. Olumide Lucas did a lot of job to show similarities and identities between the ancient Egyptians and the Yoruban peoples. The date that Aderibigbe gave (2000BC – 1000BC) is much earlier than that given by Conton. Aderibigbe’s date corresponds to that of the Hyksos invasion of Egypt 2000-1500BC. On the possible eastern origin of the Yorubas, Tariqh Sawandi says:

"“The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population across the trans-African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger. Archaeologists, according to M. Omoleya, inform us that the Nigerian region was inhabited more than forty thousand years ago, or as far back as 65,000BC. During this period, the Nok culture occupied the region. The Nok culture was visited by the “Yoruba people”, between 2000BC and 500BC. This group of people was led, according to Yoruba historical accounts by king Oduduwa, who settled peacefully in the already established Ile-Ife, the sacred city of the indigenous Nok people. "[/b]
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

The Igbos have this same claim to egypt as well as other African groups. Lets get back to present day nigeria.

anonymous6:

I believe the bronze casting was unique to the Yoruba's and a few other tribes but I feel the influence behind it came from the Nok(but the Yoruba's advanced the technique to their own way which made it uniquely theres).  Egyptians had nothing to do with Yoruba's bronze casting technique. We must also understand that in the ancient times some techniques were founded on their own without the help or knowlegde of others. My belief is the Yoruba's ancestors which are the Nok were a migrated tribe from a southern tribe in Egypt.

people also need to understand that all tribes in Africa came from a common source; the first humans came from northeast or East africa before everybody in Africa seperated into different tribes and changed in appearance as well

The Egyptian religion and other cultural practices show strong African and more so Yorubic characteristics. These can be seen in the following areas:
1. The lost wax method of brass or bronze making, which was common to both the Yoruba peoples (particular Ife) and the ancient Egyptians.
2. The ritual of initiation
3. Striving to achieve the ultimate in “Good” and truth (summun bonum)
4. The doctrine of transmigration of soul and reincarnation is widely believed in, by both peoples.
5. The concept of the ‘god king’.
6. Aspiration to achieve the great ‘good’ of the gods – ‘wealth health and long life’.
7. The Yorubic regalia, in most cases, are strikingly similar to pharoanic ones.
8. Veneration of the Ram in both places. Among the eastern Yorubas (Itsekiri especially, most of the water deities are depicted as ram following the predynastic and pharoanic patterns).
9. Both peoples answer the theophorous names.

Chyz*:

I'm not getting your point. Are you saying that you will not believe/admit to the story and evidence of the binis because "they believe their kings came from the sky"? What if they said their kings were from Igboland would you then believe their story on oduduwa? Also, if it is a cultural practice of the binis to say there kings came from heaven then that supports even more their influence of practices and culture in Ife through oduduwa,a bini.

Did oduduwa create/give birth the yoruba people or were there already yorubas there?

About the Nok, we all know about them. There is a reason why Yorubas,Edos,Igbos,Idoma,Igala share some of the same language. What does the nok have to do with it though? I asked if there was broze casting in yoruba land before the arrival of oduduwa.

I am not admitting to nothing because I don't believe it, only the benin believe that story, Yoruba's don't and they have their own story. What I am saying is if you are telling me not to believe the yoruba account that oduduwa fell from the sky, and speak as if it is you & all benins think it is nonsence when you believe in that for your own origins then you have no right to criticise yoruba's in what they believe either, and I already told you I don't believe he came from the sky.

"“The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population across the trans-African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger. Archaeologists, according to M. Omoleya, inform us that the Nigerian region was inhabited more than forty thousand years ago, or as far back as 65,000BC. During this period, the Nok culture occupied the region. The Nok culture was visited by the “Yoruba people”, between 2000BC and 500BC. This group of people was led, according to Yoruba historical accounts by king Oduduwa, who settled peacefully in the already established Ile-Ife, the sacred city of the indigenous Nok people. "
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

I brought up the Nok because of the Bronze casting not because of anything else, also the igbo's & Igala have nothing to do with the Nok or share the same language with Yoruba's; that is a bunch of nonsence
If the Yoruba's ancestors came from the Nok, and the Nok also did bronze casting then they must have been doing bronze casting in yorubaland before IFE.

"WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT YORUBA'S(INCLUDING ME) WILL NEVER BELIEVE THE BENIN STORY OF ODUDUWA BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR OWN VERSION. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN BINI'S BELIEVING THEIR VERSION BUT THEY CAN'T FORCE THAT ONTO YORUBA'S, JUST ACCEPT IT."

Wow, emmatok took the words right out of my mouth in one of his posts.

I have never seen the level of d.umbness exotik is displaying here, in a bini man.

I seriously doubt exotik is bini because if he is, then this situation is quite critical

i dont know where he's actually from from but wahala dey wherever the place is.

Chyz*:

The Igbos have this same claim to egypt as well as other African groups. Lets get back to present day nigeria.

actually I never heard a igbo claim egypt, I have heard them claim other cultures but not Egypt. That claim I have seen more from Yoruba

emmatok:

The Egyptian religion and other cultural practices show strong African and more so Yorubic characteristics. These can be seen in the following areas:
1. The lost wax method of brass or bronze making, which was common to both the Yoruba peoples (particular Ife) and the ancient Egyptians.
2. The ritual of initiation
3. Striving to achieve the ultimate in “Good” and truth (summun bonum)
4. The doctrine of transmigration of soul and reincarnation is widely believed in, by both peoples.
5. The concept of the ‘god king’.
6. Aspiration to achieve the great ‘good’ of the gods – ‘wealth health and long life’.
7. The Yorubic regalia, in most cases, are strikingly similar to pharoanic ones.
8. Veneration of the Ram in both places. Among the eastern Yorubas (Itsekiri especially, most of the water deities are depicted as ram following the predynastic and pharoanic patterns).
9. Both peoples answer the theophorous names.

True, I believe their is a Egyptian-Nok-Yoruba connection; and the bronze casting we see now from ife is uniquely from the yoruba's but I feel they got some influence from the Nok, who also did bronze casting as well but not as advanced, & the egyptians were superb in making their structures as well.

emmatok:

LOL STOP THERE ,

And where are you going with your distortions, cos i know you are an IGBO MAN.

lol, u are posting a lot of google shyte that has still not answered the question. where in any of the articles does it say the itsekiris are yorubas? btw whats wrong with being igbo? they are quite cool when dem never smoke igbo

anyway, emmatok just answer the simple question. are u itsekiri?

and tufia, the yoruba slut, keep kissing dat azz.

anonymous6:

I am not admitting to nothing because I don't believe it, only the benin believe that story, Yoruba's don't and they have their own story. Whjat I am saying is if you are telling em not to believe the yoruba account that oduduwa fell from the sky, and speak as if it you & all benins think it is nonsence when you believe in that for your own origins then you have no right to criticise yoruba's in what they believe either, and I already told you I don't believe he came from the sky.

"“The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population across the trans-African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger. Archaeologists, according to M. Omoleya, inform us that the Nigerian region was inhabited more than forty thousand years ago, or as far back as 65,000BC. During this period, the Nok culture occupied the region. The Nok culture was visited by the “Yoruba people”, between 2000BC and 500BC. This group of people was led, according to Yoruba historical accounts by king Oduduwa, who settled peacefully in the already established Ile-Ife, the sacred city of the indigenous Nok people. "
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

I brought up the Nok because of the Bronze casting not because of anything else, also the igbo's & Igala have nothing to do with the Nok or share the same language with Yoruba's; that is a bunch of nonsence
If the Yoruba's ancestors came from the Nok, and the Nok also did bronze casting then they must have been doing bronze casting in yorubaland before IFE.

"WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT YORUBA'S(INCLUDING ME) WILL NEVER BELIEVE THE BENIN STORY OF ODUDUWA BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR OWN VERSION. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN BINI'S BELIEVING THEIR VERSION BUT THEY CAN'T FORCE THAT ONTO YORUBA'S, JUST ACCEPT IT."

I belive we Yoruba are descendent of Nok people. And were not from Egypt.

Oduduwa is not from the north, just the Arab playing with us.