This seems to be major hurdle for many atheists, So i decided to help them out.

And please no emotional arguments,

The absurdity of an infinite history of past events

Some philosophers such as Bertrand Russell argued that the universe is eternal, meaning it has no beginning and it will never end. However if we think about this we will conclude that this position is irrational. If the universe never had a beginning it means there must be an infinite history of past events. Yet does an actual infinite exist in the real world? Is it possible?

The concept of the actual infinite cannot be exported into the real world, because it leads to contradictions and doesn’t make sense. Let’s take the following examples to illustrate this point:

1. Say you have an infinite number of balls, if I take 2 balls away, how many do you have left? Infinity. Does that make sense? Well, there should be two less than infinity, and if there is, then we should be able to count how many balls you have. But this is impossible, because the infinite is just an idea and doesn’t exist in the real world. In light of this fact the famous German mathematician David Hilbert said,

“The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought…the role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea.”[2]

2. Imagine you are a soldier ready to fire a gun, but before you shoot you have to ask permission for the soldier behind you, but he has to do the same, and it goes on for infinity. Will you ever shoot? No you wouldn’t. This highlights, the absurdity of an infinite regress and this applies to events to. Therefore, there cannot be an infinite history of past events.

3. Take the distance between two points, one may argue that you can subdivide the distance into infinite parts, but you will always be subdividing and never actually reach the ‘infinitieth’ part! So in reality the infinite is potential and can never be actualised. Similarly the ancient Greek Philosopher Aristotle explained,

“…the infinite is potential, never actual: the number of parts that can be taken always surpasses any assigned number.”[3]

So if we refer back to an infinite history of past events we can conclude, since events are not just ideas they are real, the number of past events cannot be infinite. Therefore the universe must be finite, in other words the cosmos had a beginning.

Now that we have proved the absurdity of an infinite regress of causes, let's apply it to God

If you ask the question who created the creator?
What stops you from asking: Who created the creator that created that creator?
Let's continue : Who created that creator that created that creator that created that creator?

If this continued forever, will there be a universe?
The absurdity of an infinite regress of causes means that the universe was caused by an uncaused cause,

God is the word. Who created the word ? or alphabets ? or ideas ? hope you don't drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. It quite impossible.

God is the word What are you talking about??

Hear this, a professor is the lecture room proved to the students that in as much as no one can see or hold breaze that there is no God. But a student stood up to make his proof. He asked the colleagues that can anybody see the brain of mr professor, since no one can see, it means Mr prof has no brain. Brethren, what a unique answer! When it comes to the issue of God, nobody will talk beyond the level of his/her understanding. My own theisis is, go to any tree, dig the soul, you will not see where it comes from. Go to the firmament of the sky, you will not see where rain comes from. Operate every human soul, you will not see anything inside that produces human voice. So nobody can permutate the creation of God. It is a mystery that no scientist can prove. All what poeple propagate about God's creation are mere hypothesies. Nothing anyone can tell me to convince me about God's creation. All I know is that their is a spiritual force behind all happenings on earth. Even theology failed to prove God's creation. My resolution is that lets leave the question of HIS creation and live in consciousness of an unseen force(spiritual) which is controlled by human mind.

A fool says God is word! Infact some people are caged with erroneuos theology. Well, can you please prove that God is word? What is God and what is word?

^^^^ you are very sick and deluded

Wunmi: A mumu will continue to be Mumu. What is wrong in proving your faith/hypothesy/understanding. Well, I'm not amazed, it shows the level of your maturity. Afterall, you will carry bible, making yansh like mosquito up and down, asserting to be the best saint the world ever produced. Ah, shame on you! You are a complete OLODO. Pls U need to renew your mind with truth. The only thing that can uncage you from spiritual imprisonment is the right TRUTH. But you sound to be enemy of truth. I pity you. This forum is for edification of human mind, Pls I still remain on my point, what is Word? How can word be God. Prove it to the world

Where are the Atheists?? Let's engage

tbaba1234:

This seems to be major hurdle for many atheists, So i decided to help them out.

And please no emotional arguments,

The absurdity of an infinite history of past events

Some philosophers such as Bertrand Russell argued that the universe is eternal, meaning it has no beginning and it will never end. However if we think about this we will conclude that this position is irrational. If the universe never had a beginning it means there must be an infinite history of past events. Yet does an actual infinite exist in the real world? Is it possible?

The concept of the actual infinite cannot be exported into the real world, because it leads to contradictions and doesn’t make sense. Let’s take the following examples to illustrate this point:

1. Say you have an infinite number of balls, if I take 2 balls away, how many do you have left? Infinity. Does that make sense? Well, there should be two less than infinity, and if there is, then we should be able to count how many balls you have. But this is impossible, because the infinite is just an idea and doesn’t exist in the real world. In light of this fact the famous German mathematician David Hilbert said,

“The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought…the role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea.”[2]

2. Imagine you are a soldier ready to fire a gun, but before you shoot you have to ask permission for the soldier behind you, but he has to do the same, and it goes on for infinity. Will you ever shoot? No you wouldn’t. This highlights, the absurdity of an infinite regress and this applies to events to. Therefore, there cannot be an infinite history of past events.

3. Take the distance between two points, one may argue that you can subdivide the distance into infinite parts, but you will always be subdividing and never actually reach the ‘infinitieth’ part! So in reality the infinite is potential and can never be actualised. Similarly the ancient Greek Philosopher Aristotle explained,

“…the infinite is potential, never actual: the number of parts that can be taken always surpasses any assigned number.”[3]

So if we refer back to an infinite history of past events we can conclude, since events are not just ideas they are real, the number of past events cannot be infinite. Therefore the universe must be finite, in other words the cosmos had a beginning.

Now that we have proved the absurdity of an infinite regress of causes, let's apply it to God

If you ask the question who created the creator?
What stops you from asking: Who created the creator that created that creator?
Let's continue : Who created that creator that created that creator that created that creator?

If this continued forever, will there be a universe?
The absurdity of an infinite regress of causes means that the universe was caused by an uncaused cause,

good point.

one of the basis of Pagan ideals.

Gods were invented my man simply because man had to make sense of his surroundings. I mean it rains mankind (just like a small child) will always ask questions like why dose it rain? What is thunder? What is lightening? Why is the weather hot? So its only natural for mankind to believe that all were invented by someone far superior to them who they referred to as a god and built statues of him in order to worship him

Our African ancestors had gods who they worshipped. To cut a long story short about 500 years ago before most of the undeveloped world was colonized all of mankind worshipped gods it was the best way to explain thier own enviorment to themselves.

Then our colonial masters came and along with colonization they told us that thier god was better than our god and the rest is history.

[img]http://www.godwallpaper.info/wallpapers/image/God%20Wallpapers%20Jesus%20creation.jpg[/img]

^^^^^^^
That picture is hilarious!!! I'm laughing because it depicts christian beliefs literally.
A giant super human creating a planet. lol

manmustwac:

Gods were invented my man simply because man had to make sense of his surroundings.

^^^ Whilst you lazily have nothing to say about the sound argument contained in the OP.

[size=13pt]<sup>In Christian mythology, God is supposed to the the all-powerful, all-knowing creator of the universe. God is supposed to have incarnated himself as Jesus and he is supposed to have written the Bible. And yet today God is completely and absolutely silent . Therefore, the only thing we hear from God comes from people who are speaking on his behalf. --- Foolishie people claiming to deceive intelligent people whereas , they deceive themselves until it's too late to correct their mistakes!

If you would like to understand how imaginary God is, all that you have to do is listen to God's spokespeople, because in many cases these people are lunatics . If there actually were a God, and if he actually had anything to do with love, he would silence these people because they are an absolute embarrassment .</sup> [/size]

Deep Sight:

^^^ Whilst you lazily have nothing to say about the sound argument contained in the OP.

Apparently, you didn't see the quote from manmustwac that's in my post. I lazily have nothing to say about the same old rehashed arguments about "infinite regression" and "uncaused cause" because they're pointless.
I could easily have asked him which particular god he's refering too because god is just a generic word for supernatural beings that have never been proven to exist anyway.

You can "engage" him with your faux intellectual arguments about oneness of infinities or whatever you think god is but at the end of the day, all gods are created by humans like you. We can talk till we are blue in the face but we still won't understand why the universe exists or what caused it. If you want to say god did it, knock yourself out but that doesn't mean it's true because every god is just an extension of humans and that's why they are all anthropocentric.

If you people insist on an "uncaused cause", why can't the universe we know exists be that uncaused cause?

Chai I miss all this things sha, arguments that go nowhere we will turn round in circles forever but wait oh infinite what will all these rehashed arguments be called

If you ask the question who created the creator?
What stops you from asking: Who created the creator that created that creator?
Let's continue : Who created that creator that created that creator that created that creator?

If you ask the question who was your father?
What stops you from asking: Who was the father of your father?
Let's continue : Who the father of the father that was the father of your father?




Where the OP, you know say we be olodo united

[size=13pt]<sup>Christians consider the existence of their God to be an obvious truth that no sane man could deny. I strongly disagree with this assumption not only because evidence for the existence of this presumably ubiquitous yet invisible God is lacking, but because the very nature Christians attribute to this God is self-contradictory.

It is taken for granted by Christians , as well as many atheists, that a universal negative cannot be proven. In this case, that universal negative is the statement that the Christian God does not exist.

One would have to have omniscience, they say, in order to prove that anything does not exist. I disagree with this position, however, because omniscience is not needed in order to prove that a thing whose nature is a self-contradiction cannot, and therefore does not exist. . . . hope u get the point now my fellow Nairaland members?</sup> [/size]

I want a sound debate: For 'logical thinkers', i am thoroughly disappointed with atheists>>>

No one has presented a valid argument,

I am Muslim:

Christians believe that the Universe was created by GOD before time existed.  So they are inferring that GOD created the universe then created time afterwards hence there was no time before GOD - GOD is the beginning of all things humans know.  Conversely, GOD will determine the end of time and the universe. However if we were to be totally honest - “Religious people choose to believe that GOD exists” whilst “Atheists choose to believe that GOD dose not exist”. 

But what about the middle ground? Would it not be more honest to accept that there is a higher power but we must be humble and accept that the explanation of its existence is beyond our current, limited human comprehension.

no one , he is in existence before the earth and will be in existence after everything has passed away,

Martian:


If you people insist on an "uncaused cause", why can't the universe we know exists be that uncaused cause?

Because uncaused things cannot be material, given that material things are mutable, but i expect that to fly over your head.

@op, ,let me just use your laptop computer as an example based on your over inquisitive and curiousity for wat is of no value to your knowledge.
A laptop was manufactured by what machine? U may say its a robot or super computer machine okay,wat manufactured the robot or d super computer machine? and wat manufactured d other machines till u get to d last machine.
I think u hv to clear ths frm your memory b4 u get urself into some mental problem.

that question may never be answered

chrisj2000:

The believe in god has cause numerous problem in the world. It is comfort to the week and in instrument to the rulers.
In the 80s, a lake exploded in Cameron and many people died. Christians went there with their bible and bind all the evil spirit. pegans went their and offer sacrifice to gods. But it happened again in the 90s, this time it wiped out an entire village. Christians and pegans asked their god why. But god provides no answer because he doesn't exist.
 Scientists went there to find out why. They discovered that the lake is sitting on an active volcano which releases a lot of carbon dioxide into the lake. Because the lake has no inflow and outflow, this carbon dioxide has no way of escaping. They are trap in the bed of this lake until something disturbs the water and cause the carbon dioxide to escape in huge quantity at a time. The carbon dioxide flows into an entire village and suffocate people and animals.
 Today scientists install pumps in the lake which pumps water from the bottom of the lake to the are thereby releasing the carbon dioxide gradually in safe quantity.
 You see, ignorance in Africa has helped religions a lot. Where is this god? and what is he doing?

Believing in God does not preclude scientific knowledge. You have come with an emotional argument. God does not change a condition of a people until they change themselves. The fact that people did not make the right choices regarding their problem does not mean there's no God.

Deep Sight:

Because uncaused things cannot be material, given that material things are mutable, but i expect that to fly over your head.

How would you know the nature of uncaused things? Just because your arm chair philosophy has led you to conclude that "uncaused things cannot be material" doesn't make it so. Philosophy is subjective so anything you say about the so called uncaused cause will just be your opinion and it will be just as valid as all the other human ideas.

When people like Neil degrasse Tyson say they have more clues about how the universe began, then there will be things to discuss because they are coming from a knowledgeable background of astrophysics. You on the other hand keep using the same old theological arguments that cater to human sentiments. Your arguments all amount to bullshit that depend on credulity and superstition.

tbaba1234:

This seems to be major hurdle for many atheists, So i decided to help them out.

And please no emotional arguments,

The absurdity of an infinite history of past events

Some philosophers such as Bertrand Russell argued that the universe is eternal, meaning it has no beginning and it will never end. However if we think about this we will conclude that this position is irrational. If the universe never had a beginning it means there must be an infinite history of past events. Yet does an actual infinite exist in the real world? Is it possible?

The concept of the actual infinite cannot be exported into the real world, because it leads to contradictions and doesn’t make sense. Let’s take the following examples to illustrate this point:

1. Say you have an infinite number of balls, if I take 2 balls away, how many do you have left? Infinity. Does that make sense? Well, there should be two less than infinity, and if there is, then we should be able to count how many balls you have. But this is impossible, because the infinite is just an idea and doesn’t exist in the real world. In light of this fact the famous German mathematician David Hilbert said,

“The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought…the role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea.”[2]

2. Imagine you are a soldier ready to fire a gun, but before you shoot you have to ask permission for the soldier behind you, but he has to do the same, and it goes on for infinity. Will you ever shoot? No you wouldn’t. This highlights, the absurdity of an infinite regress and this applies to events to. Therefore, there cannot be an infinite history of past events.

3. Take the distance between two points, one may argue that you can subdivide the distance into infinite parts, but you will always be subdividing and never actually reach the ‘infinitieth’ part! So in reality the infinite is potential and can never be actualised. Similarly the ancient Greek Philosopher Aristotle explained,

“…the infinite is potential, never actual: the number of parts that can be taken always surpasses any assigned number.”[3]

So if we refer back to an infinite history of past events we can conclude, since events are not just ideas they are real, the number of past events cannot be infinite. Therefore the universe must be finite, in other words the cosmos had a beginning.

Now that we have proved the absurdity of an infinite regress of causes, let's apply it to God

If you ask the question who created the creator?
What stops you from asking: Who created the creator that created that creator?
Let's continue : Who created that creator that created that creator that created that creator?

If this continued forever, will there be a universe?
The absurdity of an infinite regress of causes means that the universe was caused by an uncaused cause,

We know that the universe had a beginning. How does this fact demonstrate your God?
The argument I understand you to be making is that the universe exists therefore there is a God that did it. This is a non-sequitur unless you can tell us something about this God and how he did what you're claiming.

thehomer:

We know that the universe had a beginning. How does this fact demonstrate your God?
The argument I understand you to be making is that the universe exists therefore there is a God that did it. This is a non-sequitur unless you can tell us something about this God and how he did what you're claiming.

First valid Question:

For an answer to your question: please see my post where i make an argument for God, https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-791245.0.html Thanks

[size=13pt]<sup>If you consult the dictionary, here is the first definition of God that you will find:

"A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions." [ref]

Most believers would agree with this definition because they share a remarkably clear and consistent view of God. Yes, there are thousands of minor quibbles about religion. Believers express those quibbles in dozens of denominations -- Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Episcopalians, Methodists and such. But at the heart of it all, the belief in God aligns on a set of core ideas that everyone accepts.

What if you were to simply think about what it would mean if there were a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe? Is it possible for such a being to exist? Epicures thought about it in 300 BCE, and he came up with this:

"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?"

In other words, if you sit and think about who God is supposed to be, you realize that such a being is impossible. Ridiculous, in fact.</sup> [/size]

Poster u dey MAAAAAAADDDDDDDDD

[size=13pt]^{YES , we need to know ---- some people lack knowledge because they refuse to ask to know the truth instead , ignorant life style have almost ruined their brain ---}
[/size]

life_style:

[size=15pt]WHY DO YOU WANT TO KNOW ?  [/size]

It make more sense to say there is an end to everything and so it also make sense there is irreducible infinite, that judging the beginning from the end. That irreducible infinite is not God because there is nothing human image(we all know where this human image cam it to play) about it. If God is to be defined in the religion concept, then there must be beginning of God whereas in the Science the beginning predates God(the actual beginning which must be irreducible). Then,who created God but would sound right to say what was God created from? My answer is irreducible infinite. For the religionists and religious people it is their own mind creation.