I've received accounts from peers, friends and family pertaining to the Abrahamic faiths that the holy book they each follow is the undiluted, uncorrupted word of God. A book that is used as a spiritual compass to guide each of the Abrahamic faith followers.
Yet this apparatus (a.k.a "the uncorrupted word") could very easily be tampered with.

When an original text is translated during such process undoubtedly some essence is lost.
For example, mistranslations are ever present in various edited versions of the bible -

In Luke 2:33:-
King James Version reads: “And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him”

New International Version reads: “The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him.”

NIV thereby opposes the KJV version by rendering Joseph as the "father" of Jesus - undermining the virgin birth of Christ.
If God is for truth then surely even a slight alteration perverts the whole message of truth

Therefore was there not another tool that could have been adopted - a bulletproof tool at that? One that could not be tampered with?

P.S. I have been advised by immediate acquaintances that as a speaker of English that if I want to read an accurate translated version of the Bible then I should adopt the King James Version (the first edition of the English Bible)

they are both flawed , diluted, corrupted words of perverse middle eastern men, bastardized by similarly challenged westerners.

The King James Version is not without its mistakes, but they are at a minimum compared to other versions. Thus, the most accurate version is the Original King James Version. I humbly suggest using a concordance and perhaps an interlinear Bible containing Hebrew and Greek texts.
----------
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” - 2 Timothy 3:16-17

@hischild
there is little sense in arguing about accuracies in lies

@HISchild if God (Christ) is for truth then even the smallest error found the in the bible perverts the whole truth, thus does that mean people are being decieved, hence following a lie?

Why would The God of truth endorse a lie?

Like I said before was there not a bulletproof tool that could have been adopted ? One that could not be tampered with?

I humbly suggest using a concordance and perhaps an interlinear Bible containing Hebrew and Greek texts

hmm I suppose one upside to following religion is one can become bilingual

One would have to assume that use of holy books is their "GOD" greatest ability!

@emofine, GOD says - "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."
- Isa 55:10-11,

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." - Heb 4:12

GOD's purposes are always accomplished according to the perfect counsel of HIS will, through HIS word in the lives of those who HE wants.

The gems of Truth "contained" in the sacred books of different religions are simply a signpost to guide seekers to the Truth. In their pure form, the words and sentences are just a physical expression of the the language of God. The living language of God cannot be contained in any book. A genuine seeker must bestir himself inwardly. Thus, his spirit must become mobile. The mobility then permits the spirit not just to perceive the physical expression of the language of God but to sense in real time the living language of God which a messenger of God tried to clock with the sentences and words in various sacred books. In this way the genuine seeker will not get fixated at the various signposts but will be able to follow the road indicated by the signpost. In wandering through the road, he will then come across multifarious experiences that allows him a direct interaction with the the will of God that vibrates, resonates or are active in all creations. Thus the language of God is branded in all creations and only by experiencing creation in real time will our spirit slowly but surely imbibe the living language of God. Once this living language of God is experienced and becomes an integral part of the spirit, then that spirit have recognized God and his will. He is born again and consciously stands in the will of God.

Thus all genuine spirituality must be experiential in the way I tried to explain above. In this way you get seekers whose activities (action, words, thought, motive, imagination and intuition) are in tandem with the will of God. Had we had seekers in this way, our earth and other physically invincible parts of creation will be a reflection of the spiritual kingdom of God where there is only joy and supreme happiness. Unfortunately, many a seeker got fixated to the signposts and even misplaced some of the signposts. The consequence is the emergence of rigid dogma that lacks life and the emergence of believers whose activities contradict and disobey the will of God. It is not difficult to to discern who stands in the will of God and those that disobey it. Calmly look at our works (actions, words, thoughts, motive, imagination and intuition) and it will become clear those who are doing the will of God and those who disobey it. Even an earthly atheist may stand in the will of God while a pope, an apostle, a priest or a monk stand in opposition to it.

It doesn't matter to the laws of God what your religion, beliefs, sex, nationality, social status, etc are. These ephemeral to which many a man spends energy and quarrel about counts for nothing. What matters is how do you stand, for or against the will of God? Best Wishes

@Christians
only Christians present the same evidence when challenged.
hey when don't you turn the bloody knife to the side. see, it is not bloody. I am sorry guys it is , regardless of how many times you quote. It is still overly flawed, fallible and simply immoral.

Why would a brilliant God put the "infallible" truth in a book as opposed to locking it inside our essence?

Nwankwo has really said it all. The scriptures are simply signpost to the Truth which really lies within us. It is actually due to spiritual laziness that makes a lot of people not to bother about doing an inner search.

It is far much easier to just accept what is written in a book and then argue over it.
Coming face to face with the Living Word is an inner journey which transforms the person into a Being of light and love. There are no words written that can even come close to this experience. Only those who have experienced it knows.

benodic:

Nwankwo has really said it all. The scriptures are simply signpost to the Truth which really lies within us. It is actually due to spiritual laziness that makes a lot of people not to bother about doing an inner search.

It is far much easier to just accept what is written in a book and then argue over it.
Coming face to face with the Living Word is an inner journey which transforms the person into a Being of light and love. There are no words written that can even come close to this experience. Only those who have experienced it knows.

You need a book to access what's already inside you? Never had it put that way b4.

emöfine:

Why would a brilliant God put the "infallible" truth in a book as opposed to locking it inside our essence?

The Author is not a brilliant God, but rather very naughty Boys. They are trying to use God to engineer social systems.

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af9EHtQMMc4[/flash]


Abeg Nwankwo don talk am finish. Nothing left to say.

emofine:

I've received accounts from peers, friends and family pertaining to the Abrahamic faiths that the holy book they each follow is the undiluted, uncorrupted word of God. A book that is used as a spiritual compass to guide each of the Abrahamic faith followers.
Yet this apparatus (a.k.a "the uncorrupted word") could very easily be tampered with.

When an original text is translated during such process undoubtedly some essence is lost.
For example, mistranslations are ever present in various edited versions of the bible -

In Luke 2:33:-
King James Version reads: “And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him”

New International Version reads: “The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him.”

NIV thereby opposes the KJV version by rendering Joseph as the "father" of Jesus - undermining the virgin birth of Christ.
If God is for truth then surely even a slight alteration perverts the whole message of truth

Therefore was there not another tool that could have been adopted - a bulletproof tool at that? One that could not be tampered with?

P.S. I have been advised by immediate acquaintances that as a speaker of English that if I want to read an accurate translated version of the Bible then I should adopt the King James Version (the first edition of the English Bible)

this is a very lazy statement. In our society, if a man marries a woman with children from a previous relationship . . . those children are regarded as his STEP-CHILDREN just as he automatically assumes the role of STEP-FATHER to them. Your clueless point there is akin to saying - "calling me the father (albeit step) to my wife's son undermines the fact that the child has a biological father". Does that make sense?

Why does a God depend on a book written by humans , filled with human errors, contradictions and human translation error to get its supposedly perfect message out?. . . The same God one written to be addressing a whole nation through public speech when men were primitive and thought he lived in the sky and could build a tower to reach him. . .

@m_nwankwo

A genuine seeker must bestir himself inwardly. Thus, his spirit must become mobile. The mobility then permits the spirit not just to perceive the physical expression of the language of God but to sense in real time the living language of God which a messenger of God tried to clock with the sentences and words in various sacred books.

Excuse me for my late response but I had only now taken the time to read your beautiful post in it's entirety. It was pretty dense so I had to digest it in parts. Quite intelligent and educational delivered in a poetic style.
I appreciate your reply and it's as if it was tailored specifically to someone like me (despite the fact that I am the author of this thread).

I believe you are right when you say in order for a word to become alive it requires much action.

Reading your post I instantly thought of John Muir's metaphor he used to describe nature . . ."The Book of Nature" - an animated extension of the written Bible. He perceived nature as a testament to God and even though I understand he was a christian and one that memorized the Bible well he used the creations as a means of understanding God.

There was a person who had found her faith without the encouragement of eager Evangelists which I found pretty remarkable - is that "intuition" at work?. She confessed that she did not read the Bible and other such Holy Scriptures but what she saw was the reflection of the "word of God" in a particular believer. She was reading that believer as one would read the pages of a book. She saw in that one believer the embodiment of the "word" and so was stirred. I found that quite astonishing that she witnessed instead what she later would regard as the truth as opposed to being informed about it.

In this way the genuine seeker will not get fixated at the various signposts but will be able to follow the road indicated by the signpost.

Yet These Books or "signposts" meet at a crossroad. So which road would a seeker thus follow?
You mentioned  "intuition" and I found that quite intriguing. Intuition surely differs from person to person . . .so is spirituality subjective or objective?
Is it also intuition that guides believers and not solely a book?
If we have intuition to rely on what use is a Book?

davidylan:

this is a very lazy statement. In our society, if a man marries a woman with children from a previous relationship . . . those children are regarded as his STEP-CHILDREN just as he automatically assumes the role of STEP-FATHER to them.

I agree my opening post was very lazily scripted but I hope you got the crux of my argument or question rather.
I am aware that children can have a Parent(s) that maintains a Step role. However I don't believe it's an accident that in the KJV (the first English translated text) of the Bible that Jesus nor the writers of the book never referred to Joseph as the "Father" of Jesus even when the genealogy was listed (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's almost as if they were careful regarding that.

I only used one example to demonstrate the deviations and contradictions of various texts in the Bible. If that particular NIV passage did not dilute any message from your own perspective then you have to understand for others this is actually a grave statement and error.
No doubt Joseph would have appeared as the surrogate father of Jesus but the difference in your example and the translated version I shared is that I would have thought that the "virgin birth" of Christ was a significant theme in the Bible. So why water that concept down? I'm sure you are aware that there are many people that already believe Joseph to be the biological Father of Jesus. That NIV translation only serves to strengthen such notions.

Your clueless point there is akin to saying - "calling me the father (albeit step) to my wife's son undermines the fact that the child has a biological father". Does that make sense?

Like I've already said the birth surrounding Jesus was different. So a child who has a Step Father can call their Mother's spouse "Father" if they so wish but that doesn't betray the nature of their birth. Even Jesus himself never referred to Joseph as his "Father" - well in the version I read.

Having said that, whether you agree with my "lazy statement" or not it doesn't change the fact that there are inconsistencies in the Bible. The book that many claim to be "the undiluted Word of God".
I can construct a sentence now and even if that sentence was true but someone else then fiddled the texts around or subtracted or added a/some words from my original statement the whole message thus changes - kinda like Chinese whispers.

So if indeed a Book is what governs many believers, is such a tool sufficient enough to guide millions in faith considering a book is susceptible to being tampered with?

After all it is very very easy to manipulate pages in a book. If I was Cruella De vil and God indeed put the "truth" inside a book then I would be having a heyday because that is probably one of the easiest tools in danger of being tampered with. The first thing I would do is to attack the Bible.

Thus I wondered, couldn't this God package His message of truth via a bulletproof medium - one that cannot be manipulated for greedy and selfish people's gains?
Couldn't this God inscribe this truth in the template of our being?
Could God not have written this book himself? - In fact I just remembered. Once upon a time he wrote the original tablets of the ten commandments in which Moses destroyed when he was angry with the actions of the Israelites, thus even God's own hand written script can be damaged - well that is what I learnt from that episode.

emöfine:

No doubt Joseph would have appeared as the surrogate father of Jesus but the difference in your example and the translated version I shared is that[b] I would have thought that the "virgin birth" of Christ was a significant theme in the Bible. So why water that concept down?[/b] I'm sure you are aware that there are many people that already believe Joseph to be the biological Father of Jesus. That NIV translation only serves to strengthen such notions.

I'm sorry, but this is simply lazy . . . Pls read Is 7:14 from the NIV - Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. - this is also quoted in Matthew 1:23

Luke 1: 26-27 from the same NIV - 26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.

Verse 34 of Luke 7 from the same NIV - 34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

so exactly how did the NIV "water-down" the concept of the virgin birth? Because it correctly identifies Joseph as the wife of Mary and hence the Step-Father to Christ Jesus as is obtainable in society till today?

emöfine:

Having said that, whether you agree with my "lazy statement" or not it doesn't change the fact that there are inconsistencies in the Bible. The book that many claim to be "the undiluted Word of God".

Just going by the poor scholarship you have shown above, i can conclude that you are just one more in the long line of ignorant folks who merely spew the "inconsistencies in the bible" nonsense that you either heard or read from somewhere else. For if you had done a simple google search of the word "virgin" in the NIV bible you would have spotted the fact that the NIV is CLEAR on the virgin birth of Christ.

@davidylan

Now you see how ones message can suddenly change . . .be altered?
I believe I was careful to highlight that I was considering a verse and "that" "particular" verse does serve to undermine the "virgin birth". It's a pretty huge theme to completely gloss over so I gather that other verses will give credit to the nature surrounding Jesus's birth. It would be detrimental to their publishers not to.

In my opening post I said a lie is merely a perversion of the truth. Lies are subtle and largely are made up of truths so that the structure appears similar but not identical. But of course a half truth equals a whole lie.
I had considered that particular verse (and others) and even this topic for the longest time. All you have said to me is nothing new. I had also pondered on those thoughts myself. Joseph was his surrogate father after all so what is the big deal in labeling this man as Jesus's "Father" I questioned myself. I also used to reason that people by and large will understand the role being depicted in that verse.

Yet in another version - the KJV - the writers never for once substituted Joseph as Jesus's Father - which I found deliberate, careful, consistent (regarding that) and remarkable. I even used to take offense on Joseph's behalf that this man who acted as the surrogate Father to Jesus was not once accorded that title "Father" by the writers or Jesus himself. I don't believe it was random at all.
Rightly or wrongly I do get drawn to detail a lot and sometimes bogged down by it all but I highlighted this particular verse because I believed it to be quite significant. Little things like that alter the totality.

"ignorant folks". . .
hmmm well I will confess that I am ignorant on many things pertaining to the Bible and Christianity - and so are other Christians. But I'm still learning and that's why I ask these constant questions.

Also see post no.3 on this very thread. So is HisChild also inducted in that "long line of ignorant folks who merely spew the "inconsistencies in the bible" nonsense that you either heard or read from somewhere else" ?

It's not the belief of non-Christians alone.

Furthermore can it be said that every single thing in the Bible is 100% accurate?

emöfine:

@davidylan

Now you see how ones message can suddenly change . . .be altered?
I believe I was careful to highlight that I was considering a verse and "that" "particular" verse does serve to undermine the "virgin birth". It's a pretty huge theme to completely gloss over so I gather that other verses will give credit to the nature surrounding Jesus's birth. It would be detrimental to their publishers not to.

This is absurd.

1. Do you build an entire physics curriculum around a single chapter? Why then do we consistently struggle too hard to read "inconsistencies" into the bible by dishonestly taking one verse out of context?

The books of Isaiah, matthew and Luke are VERY CLEAR in the NIV version on the virgin birth concept . . . and you're getting hung up on the word "father"? Methinks someone is trying way too hard to find examples to buttress a pre-conceived idea.

emöfine:

In my opening post I said a lie is merely a perversion of the truth. Lies are subtle and largely are made up of truths so that the structure appears similar but not identical. But of course a half truth equals a whole lie.

Again daft. Where in that verse do you see a lie? Is Joseph not father to Jesus Christ by virtue of marriage to His mother?

emöfine:

-[size=13pt] the KJV - the writers never for once substituted Joseph as Jesus's Father - which I found deliberate, careful, consistent (regarding that) and remarkable[/size]. I even used to take offense on Joseph's behalf that this man who acted as the surrogate Father to Jesus was not once accorded that title "Father" by the writers or Jesus himself. I don't believe it was random at all.

When i accused you earlier of being lazy . . . it wasnt an insult. This is the KJV . . .

Luke 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

emöfine:

Rightly or wrongly I do get drawn to detail a lot and sometimes bogged down by it all but I highlighted this particular verse because I believed it to be quite significant. Little things like that alter the totality.

they only do to those who are busy ferreting for "contradictions" to fuel their own pre-conceived idea that the bible cannot be the word of God by which we should model our lives.

emöfine:

Furthermore can it be said that every single thing in the Bible is 100% accurate?

The bible was translated by man from the original languages in which they were written, thus it is to be expected that certain inaccuracies in terms or translation may exist. HOWEVER, the key messages, archeological and historical facts have been proven time and time again to be accurate.

If you asked 3 people to translate a dictionary to igbo independently . . . it would be incredulous to expect them to arrive at the same translations for every single word.

emöfine:

@m_nwankwo
Excuse me for my late response but I had only now taken the time to read your beautiful post in it's entirety. It was pretty dense so I had to digest it in parts. Quite intelligent and educational delivered in a poetic style.
I appreciate your reply and it's as if it was tailored specifically to someone like me (despite the fact that I am the author of this thread).

I believe you are right when you say in order for a word to become alive it requires much action.

Reading your post I instantly thought of John Muir's metaphor he used to describe nature . . ."The Book of Nature" - an animated extension of the written Bible. He perceived nature as a testament to God and even though I understand he was a christian and one that memorized the Bible well he used the creations as a means of understanding God.

There was a person who had found her faith without the encouragement of eager Evangelists which I found pretty remarkable - is that "intuition" at work?. She confessed that she did not read the Bible and other such Holy Scriptures but what she saw was the reflection of the "word of God" in a particular believer. She was reading that believer as one would read the pages of a book. She saw in that one believer the embodiment of the "word" and so was stirred. I found that quite astonishing that she witnessed instead what she later would regard as the truth as opposed to being informed about it.

Yet These Books or "signposts" meet at a crossroad. So which road would a seeker thus follow?
You mentioned  "intuition" and I found that quite intriguing. Intuition surely differs from person to person . . .so is spirituality subjective or objective?
Is it also intuition that guides believers and not solely a book?
If we have intuition to rely on what use is a Book?

Hi Emofine. Thanks for your kind words and your reasoned reply. The laws of God are indelibly written in all creations of God. What men call Nature is just a small part of Gods creations. The sacred scriptures of religions in its pure form are simply a physical condensation of the language of God that vibrates in creations. Thus a prophet or servant of God due to an ability granted to him or her by God gives physical form to this living language of God by cloaking them into earthly words and sentences. A genuine seeker will absorb the words and sentences in such a way that the words and the sentences opens the door to the living laws of God. In other words, the genuine seeker should be able to experience the same living language of God which the prophet or servant of God have condensed into words and sentences. The words and the sentences are only forms or shells but a genuine seeker must uncover or unclothe the shells or the coverings so that he will experience the seed (the living language of God). This living language of God cannot be accurately depicted in human words and language. It is not possible to reproduce in human language that which is Living and "Infinite".

Thus it is possible to know of GOD without coming into physical contact with any of the sacred books. Buried deep and as an integral part of our spirit is a spiritual receiver and transmitter which is called intuition. This intuition can easily recognize the living language of God. Unfortunately, like a diamond buried in mud, the purity of spiritual intuition is crowded or enveloped by the propensities of our material bodies. It is for this reason that many cannot hear the voice of the spirit. God in his infinite Love sends his messengers to awaken man from the slumber, that is, to help humankind tear away the dross that covers the intuition. Once the intuition is free, it cannot but recognize God and his Will for the ultimate recognition of God is hardwired in the spirit. Because each individual is different, what will awaken them varies. Some may find the trigger in very painful experiences, others in the Bible, Koran, Vedic scriptures, etc while some others may find the opening of the voice of their spirit on the mountain top, gazing in a Night sky or even by looking at the complexity of biological systems. Whatever is the trigger, one thin is certain, once the gate of the spirit opens to perceive the will of God, that spirit can only live and breathe LOVE. LOVE, GENUINE LOVE is the fundamental characteristic of an awakened spirit. Such an awakened spirit only lives and breathes love for he is now linked for all times with GOD who is the source and origin of LOVE.

Gems of Truth in all sacred books do not contradict each other for the Truth cannot contradict itself. A genuine seeker will be able to pick any sacred book and be able to absorb the truths that is in them, while discarding the untruths. Each human being who has humility and is seeking for God will find God irrespective of what his earthly religion is. Like I said above when they have found the living language of God, they will only live one supreme law of God, that is to love God and to love all creations of God. Stay blessed.

davidylan:

This is absurd.

1. Do you build an entire physics curriculum around a single chapter? Why then do we consistently struggle too hard to read "inconsistencies" into the bible by dishonestly taking one verse out of context?

Well in all seriousness I was being sincere. My intentions was not to cause mischief, neither was I trying to read or imagine whatever "inconsistencies" into realization.

The books of Isaiah, matthew and Luke are VERY CLEAR in the NIV version on the virgin birth concept . . . and you're getting hung up on the word "father"? Methinks someone is trying way too hard to find examples to buttress a pre-conceived idea.

*sigh*. . .As I have said before in my previous post addressed to you, of course plenty of other verses were going to give credit to the nature of his birth.
Now I'm beginning to think you're the one "hung up" because I used a Bible verse in my illustration that I believe was inconsistent. Did you also happen to take in the rest of my opening post? Ok, I found it easy to sieve through the Bible than any other book but this thread was not supposed to soley highlight inaccuracies in the Bible. I was considering all the Abrahamic Faiths (as they all use a Book as a guide) and unfortunately used a biblical verse to offer an example.

Again daft. Where in that verse do you see a lie? Is Joseph not father to Jesus Christ by virtue of marriage to His mother?

When i accused you earlier of being lazy . . . it wasnt an insult. This is the KJV . . .

Luke 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

I'm not too big for correction so thanks for the correction.

but of course . . . .

emöfine:
However I don't believe it's an accident that in the KJV (the first English translated text) of the Bible that Jesus nor the writers of the book never referred to Joseph as the "Father" of Jesus even when the genealogy was listed (correct me if I'm wrong).

However it was Mary that employed the word "father" when addressing Jesus. Now I believe it's you taking things out of context currently.
So it still doesn't defeat my point that Jesus never referred to Joseph as Father. Although I have learnt something today. The KJV did in fact use the word Father when highlighting the relationship between Jesus and Joseph.

they only do to those who are busy ferreting for "contradictions" to fuel their own pre-conceived idea that the bible cannot be the word of God by which we should model our lives.

I used that verse from a particular translation in the bible to highlight my theme and convey my point. Quaranic contradictions and ones from the Torah are also welcome here.

The bible was translated by man from the original languages in which they were written, thus it is to be expected that certain inaccuracies in terms or translation may exist. HOWEVER, the key messages, archeological and historical facts have been proven time and time again to be accurate.

If you asked 3 people to translate a dictionary to igbo independently . . . it would be incredulous to expect them to arrive at the same translations for every single word.

I appreciate this point.

emöfine:

However it was Mary that employed the word "father" when addressing Jesus. How does that defeat my point? Now I believe it's you taking things out of context currently.

No. it actually makes nonsense of the very pivot of this thread. If Mary openly referred to Joseph as Jesus' father, then its probable that it must have been a fairly common way of describing the relationship between Joseph and Jesus. Why then would it be a surprise to see the bible translators use a word that was fairly common usage at the time?

m_nwankwo:

Hi Emofine. Thanks for your kind words and your reasoned reply. The laws of God are indelibly written in all creations of God. What men call Nature is just a small part of Gods creations. The sacred scriptures of religions in its pure form are simply a physical condensation of the language of God that vibrates in creations. Thus a prophet or servant of God due to an ability granted to him or her by God gives physical form to this living language of God by cloaking them into earthly words and sentences. A genuine seeker will absorb the words and sentences in such a way that the words and the sentences opens the door to the living laws of God. In other words, the genuine seeker should be able to experience the same living language of God which the prophet or servant of God have condensed into words and sentences. The words and the sentences are only forms or shells but a genuine seeker must uncover or unclothe the shells or the coverings so that he will experience the seed (the living language of God). This living language of God cannot be accurately depicted in human words and language. It is not possible to reproduce in human language that which is Living and "Infinite".

Thus it is possible to know of GOD without coming into physical contact with any of the sacred books. Buried deep and as an integral part of our spirit is a spiritual receiver and transmitter which is called intuition. This intuition can easily recognize the living language of God. Unfortunately, like a diamond buried in mud, the purity of spiritual intuition is crowded or enveloped by the propensities of our material bodies. It is for this reason that many cannot hear the voice of the spirit. God in his infinite Love sends his messengers to awaken man from the slumber, that is, to help humankind tear away the dross that covers the intuition. Once the intuition is free, it cannot but recognize God and his Will for the ultimate recognition of God is hardwired in the spirit. Because each individual is different, what will awaken them varies. Some may find the trigger in very painful experiences, others in the Bible, Koran, Vedic scriptures, etc while some others may find the opening of the voice of their spirit on the mountain top, gazing in a Night sky or even by looking at the complexity of biological systems. Whatever is the trigger, one thin is certain, once the gate of the spirit opens to perceive the will of God, that spirit can only live and breathe LOVE. LOVE, GENUINE LOVE is the fundamental characteristic of an awakened spirit. Such an awakened spirit only lives and breathes love for he is now linked for all times with GOD who is the source and origin of LOVE.

Gems of Truth in all sacred books do not contradict each other for the Truth cannot contradict itself. A genuine seeker will be able to pick any sacred book and be able to absorb the truths that is in them, while discarding the untruths. Each human being who has humility and is seeking for God will find God irrespective of what his earthly religion is. Like I said above when they have found the living language of God, they will only live one supreme law of God, that is to love God and to love all creations of God. Stay blessed.

Wow. Intriguing.

If you don't mind me asking, what religion (if any) do you adhere to? What books have you read or currently reading? What informed your current way of thinking?
The way you write is like painting a picture. Very vivid.

davidylan:

No. it actually makes nonsense of the very pivot of this thread. If Mary openly referred to Joseph as Jesus' father, then its probable that it must have been a fairly common way of describing the relationship between Joseph and Jesus. Why then would it be a surprise to see the bible translators use a word that was fairly common usage at the time?

Please see my modified version. I've revised my statement.

emöfine:

Wow. Intriguing.

If you don't mind me asking, what religion (if any) do you adhere to? What books have you read or currently reading? What informed your current way of thinking?
The way you write is like painting a picture. Very vivid.

Hi Emofine. Thank you for your kind words. I do not adhere to any religion. In my teen years to about the age of 22, I examined sacred books of major religions, sacred books of many mystical movements as well as the works of great philosophers including Plato and Immanuel Kant. In all these works I found many things that were spiritually beneficial but they were insufficient to quench my thirst for the Truth. A personal spiritual experience that happened more than 20 years ago lead me to the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message". I am an adherent of the Grail Message. What I write is drawn from the Grail Message as well as my own personal experiences of both the visible and invincible creations of God. I can see and perceive the living language of God and for this reason, I rarely do read spiritual works since I was 23. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Emofine. Thank you for your kind words. I do not adhere to any religion. In my teen years to about the age of 22, I examined sacred books of major religions, sacred books of many mystical movements as well as the works of great philosophers including Plato and Immanuel Kant. In all these works I found many things that were spiritually beneficial but they were insufficient to quench my thirst for the Truth. A personal spiritual experience that happened more than 20 years ago lead me to the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message". I am an adherent of the Grail Message. What I write is drawn from the Grail Message as well as my own personal experiences of both the visible and invincible creations of God. I can see and perceive the living language of God and for this reason, I rarely do read spiritual works since I was 23. Stay blessed. 

You are the first person on this site that I can finally identify with. I actually believe there is elements of truth in all the Holy Books but I struggle to accept if the whole articles in their entirety is wholly true. Even though I am intrigued by the symbols embedded in the Holy text, literary work and at times draw my inspiration from some of the passages of these books I cannot see myself nor would I like to be confined in the perimeters of a religion - after all we all have our own interpretation
My own journey is similar to yours except that I'm only in the beginning. It sounds like it would be an exciting and worthwhile one now after communicating with you. I gather that you live in Norway, did your environment have an effect in which trajectory you later took? Shape your thinking?

Do you have a relationship with God (the Creator)?
Was you brought up in a religious home?

Sorry if I'm bothering you with all these questions. I just find your way of thinking and reasoning intriguing.

A personal spiritual experience that happened more than 20 years ago lead me to the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message". I am an adherent of the Grail Message. What I write is drawn from the Grail Message as well as my own personal experiences of both the visible and invincible creations of God.

Hmm I have another book to add in my to read list then.

Do you subscribe to the thought that the things we do not see are by far more real than the things we do see?

@Emofine; « #9 on: Yesterday at 11:52:57 AM »

[Quote]Why would a brilliant God put the "infallible" truth in a book as opposed to locking it inside our essence?[/Quote]This is why Quran is a recitation and does not have to be in a book form before it is "LOCKED INSIDE YOUR ESSENCE".

If a person who does not know the arabic hears a Quranic tone of Arabic speech, and then hears Quran recitation in the tone of the speech, he will know the difference from his heart.

His heart will react to the Quran, while his heart will not reach to the Arabic speech even though it is in the exact same tone as the Quran.

later, i will look for a video of a dialogue of a Quranic reciter with a christian propagandist in Australia, where the recitation of the Quran impacted the heart of the christian, while the non Quranic arabic statement, though sounding the same did not.

Note to self: Work on Emofine, because Nwankwo will easily capture her heart because everything is visual to the artist. And she is one. She can help it when the painter of half truth and others are talking to her.

the tarot card people will continue to talk until they get you to hang on a truth that they stumbled on in your life. From then onward, you will absorb all the garbage that follows, whereas you have been saying no to everything before this incidental truth.

Hi Emofine. Thank you for your comments and kind words. I reply to your comments as follows:

You are the first person on this site that I can finally identify with. I actually believe there is elements of truth in all the Holy Books but I struggle to accept if the whole articles in their entirety is wholly true. Even though I am intrigued by the symbols embedded in the Holy text, literary work and at times draw my inspiration from some of the passages of these books I cannot see myself nor would I like to be confined in the perimeters of a religion - after all we all have our own interpretation Undecided

The sacred books of religions contain some truth. Those grains of Truth are the the teachings of the the prophets of God and in (case of the bible, the son of God) that have not been distorted by the human mind. Budhha, Krishina, LaoTse, Mohammed, Moses, and many others besides are messengers of God sent to different cultures and traditions. The proclaimed the same eternal Truth adapted to the culture and spiritual maturity of their people. But like everything that we humans have torched upon, a cup of rice (grains of Truth) was mixed with a bag of sand. It thus appear difficult for many a man to still find the grains of rice within the bag of sand. A genuine seeker will be guided to be able to clearly distinguish the grains of rice from the sand. There is no essential difference between the grain of rice that came through the mouth of any of the prophets of God. Besides every human being living on earth and in the beyond has at least once in one of his incarnations had directly from the mouth of a prophet of God and even from Jesus, the son of God. These pure and unadulterated teachings slumber deep in the spirit of any man and all that man needs is to tear away the dross that covers his spiritual intuition. Then he will be able to re-awaken the knowledge that slumbers within himself. Thus on earth a man who sat at the feet of Jesus, the son of God 2000 years ago is here again as a Nigerian completely oblivious that the teachings and events in the life of the son of God is slumbering deep in his spirit and just need a spiritual awakening to call it to life. Thus the infinite Love of God grants us several opportunities to recognize God and his Will. I wish you strength in you search. My only advice is not to believe what anybody (including me) tell you about God but to only accept that which is in accord with the innermost yearning of your spirit. 

My own journey is similar to yours except that I'm only in the beginning. It sounds like it would be an exciting and worthwhile one now after communicating with you. I gather that you live in Norway, did your environment have an effect in which trajectory you later took? Shape your thinking?

What is important is that you have awakened the yearning to find God. Keep on seeking and you will find all that you need for your spiritual development and salvation. No person who genuinely seeks God will go empty hand for it is the will of God that men should come to recognition. Yes I live in Norway. I came to Norway 12 years ago but I have already found the Truth before coming to Norway. Truth is constant and immutable and thus it is not subject to the earthly fluctuations like geographical location, sex, religious inclination, social status, race, etc.

Do you have a relationship with God (the Creator)?
Was you brought up in a religious home?

Yes, I am granted the grace of having a relationship with God, the creator. Yes I was brought up in a deeply religious catholic home. But I was born with the ability to see physically invincible things and thus it was easy for me to see the contradiction between what I am told or read with my own experiences.

Do you subscribe to the thought that the things we do not see are by far more real than the things we do see

I know that the entire creation is a reflection or an image of the will of God. The material physically visible creation with all its billions of galaxies and sun systems is the last copy and only faintly reflects the original copy (Primordial spiritual creation). Thus material creation is the least approximation to real Life. Primordial Spiritual Creation is the closest reflection of Real Life. Life and Power only resides in God and everything that is not God (Creations and much more) is a reflection or an image of the Life that is in God. Stay blessed.

emofine:

I've received accounts from peers, friends and family pertaining to the Abrahamic faiths that the holy book they each follow is the undiluted, uncorrupted word of God. A book that is used as a spiritual compass to guide each of the Abrahamic faith followers.
Yet this apparatus (a.k.a "the uncorrupted word") could very easily be tampered with.

You have raised valid questions on this thread and Nwankwo has come up with really beautiful rhetorics.

This is my position:

It is an Islamic viewpoint that every nation was sent a Messenger for their guidance. The important matter was the concept of Tawheed i.e., in oneness of Allah. The secondary matter was the law which kept changing from tribe to tribe and nation to nation. Allah, the most high, alone knows what is good for His creation. As it is mentioned in the Qur'ân:

And for every Ummah (a community or a nation), there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (Qur'ân 10:47)

And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e., do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). (Qur'ân 16:36)

Some of these Messengers are mentioned in the Qur'ân by Allah and some of them are not as the Qur'ân says:

And, indeed We have sent Messengers before you (O Muhammad(P)); of some of them We have related to you their story and of some We have not related to you their story, and it was not given to any Messenger that he should bring a sign except by the Leave of Allah. So, when comes the Commandment of Allah, the matter will be decided with truth, and the followers of falsehood will then be lost. (Qur'ân 40:78)

Each messenger came with an message (a book) which could have been oral or otherwise. They came with a singular message,"Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e., do not worship Taghut besides Allah)."

Using a medley of books and using your prejudices and emotions to decide what is true in them is not an objective way to find truth. Why?, We end up choosing what pleases us and rejecting what doesn't please us.

Like the Quran states:
., it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. (Surah 2:216)

Also some of the books in your medley might be false. The Quran states:
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for
what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Surah 2:79)

About the Quran God says:

(We have, without doubt, sent down the Reminder [i.e., the Quran]; and We will assuredly guard it [from corruption].) (Al-Hijr 15:9)

This promise from Allah Almighty to protect the Quran is very important for us as Muslims in order to have confidence in the source of all our knowledge about Islam, the Quran. As you know, people before Islam had received messages from Allah, which they eventually corrupted with changes, additions, and deletions.

The difference between Islam and the religions before Islam, including heavenly religions, is in who was assigned with the protection of the message. In Islam, Allah entrusted Himself with the protection of the Quran; whereas, before, only humans were entrusted to the protection of the divine Scriptures.

The Quran says what means:

(It was We who revealed the law [to Moses]: therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed [as in Islam] to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by [the light of] what Allah hath revealed, they are [no better than] unbelievers.) (Al-Ma’idah 5:44)

So, because Allah is the Trustee of the Quran, He protected it from any corruption, and because humans were the trustees over the other books, they corrupted them by additions and deletions. We Muslims had a similar painful experience with the hadiths of the Prophet (peace be upon him), which were similarly entrusted to humans to preserve.

However, many liars, out of various political and materialistic interests, added many false narrations to the collections of Hadith. We all know how the scholars of Hadith (may Allah reward them greatly) worked diligently in order to find out liars and succeeded —due to the academic approach they used— in rejecting tons of false narrations that would have otherwise corrupted the Hadith of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

But the Quran is different. Allah made it easy for millions of Muslims, since the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and until now, to memorize the Quran by heart in its original language. These people were guardians for the message of the Quran, correcting any person who errs in one letter of it at any time. Allah protected the Quran through making it easy to remember, for it says what means:

(And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?) (Al-Qamar 54:17)

Allah also protected the text of the Quran through the Companions who collected the whole collection of verses, soon after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and made copies for all parts of the Muslim Ummah (nation). Since then, millions (if not billions) of identical copies were made, which guarantee,in sha 'Allah, the protection of the script of the Quran.

We have an innate disposition to God (fitra) and will always try to find him. However, Our faith must be backed with reason and proof otherwise we get swept away by emotions.

About the Quran
My brother bonsaisky puts it beautifully in this video
[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsX1zQD1U8o&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/flash]

Thanks.

tbaba1234:


But the Quran is different. [b]Allah made it easy for millions of Muslims, since the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and until now, to memorize the Quran by heart in its original language. [/b]These people were guardians for the message of the Quran, correcting any person who errs in one letter of it at any time. Allah protected the Quran through making it easy to remember, for it says what means:

(And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?) (Al-Qamar 54:17)

Which is quite strange, in that they memorise the so called inspired word of God in a foreign language without any understanding at all , except what is revealed to them by Imams and scholars. Weird if you ask me.

Could ALLAH speak only Arabic 

Surely if he could speak other languages, he might want to emulate the Christians who had the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts translated into every language known to man. Our God is universal, your ALLAH is restricted to the middle east with it's cultures and practises.

Allah also protected the text of the Quran through the Companions who collected the whole collection of verses, soon after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and made copies for all parts of the Muslim Ummah (nation). Since then, millions (if not billions) of identical copies were made, which guarantee,in sha 'Allah, the protection of the script of the Quran.

We have an innate disposition to God (fitra) and will always try to find him. However, Our faith must be backed with reason and proof otherwise we get swept away by emotions.

Not true.

It is a proven fact that the Quran is an embodiment of confusion and chaos, far from a coherent book as you would like us to believe talk less of inspired by GOD.

the reason why you have different alterations in the bible is explained in job 9 vs 24. all of this started during the european rennaisance. prior to this, the world was ruled by black men. king james and emperor constantine were black men but they all got white washed during the rennaisance. this is why the KJV will be the most accurate one to read. so when the world falls into the hands of the wicked he tries to cover the faces of the real judges (the israelites and christ by painting them white from black). this is why they have also had to keep updating the bible to remove the parts where it is starkingly obvious that it was written by black men. then they removed some parts of it (the apocrypha). basically it is a white supremacy agenda fulfilling the job 9 vs 24 prophesy.