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Stats: 1061436 members, 1232193 topics. Date: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 04:48 AM
|Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:16pm On Dec 08, 2011|
There have been a lot of comments recently on this forum about the "anti gäy-marriage bill" most of them being curses or insults directed at gäys and claims of hömösexuality being unafrican. The few voices who have spoken out against the bill have been shoured down and accused of being closet hömösexuals and children of the devil. In order to prevent this forum from becoming an echo-chamber, I have decided to put down all the reasons why this bill is harmful and dangerous, and why it must not become law. Prepare for a long read, because there are many of them.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:19pm On Dec 08, 2011|
The most obvious problem with this bill is that it is completely unconstitutional. In fact, it violates the 1999 constitution is so many ways that it's shocking to me that it even survived its first reading talk less of being passed.
It has provisions to prevent gäys from forming associations, gathering together, protesting or petitioning the government. It makes witnessing, publicising or promoting gäy marriage a crime. By doing this, it tramples on freedom of expression, freedom of association, freedom of assembly, the right of the people to petition the government to redress greivances and limits open political discourse.
It is important to note that this affects the rights of not only gäys, but all Nigerians. If this becomes law, anyone who forms an HIV/AIDS advocacy group that targets hömösexuals will be liable to a long prison sentence. Even posting on this thread will make you a criminal. This cannot be allowed to happen in a democracy.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:22pm On Dec 08, 2011|
There is also the cultural argument. The bill aims at protecting taditional values and beliefs. Members of the senate claim that hömösexuality is imported from the west and is alien to african culture. This is of course completely false as a simple google search will show, but if even if it were true the question is "so what?"
As we all learned in primary school social studies, culture is not constant, not fixed and is completely non-binding. No one has the right to enforce their cultural beliefs on others. My parents cannot legally force me to have a traditional wedding if I just want to go to registry.
Then there is the completely stûpid idea that our local traditions are inherently good while western ones are bad. There are plently of traditional practices that are now considered pure evil, for example female circumcision, killing of twins, the treatment of widows in parts of the east, burying obas with human heads in the SW, the osu caste system, etc. Then there is the fact that christianity, islam and our entire system of government is imported.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:25pm On Dec 08, 2011|
Then there's the religious aspect. Much has been made of the fact that hömösexuality is banned in both christianity and islam. Having read both the bible and the koran, I have to agree on this point, the scriptures are unambiguous on this point. But the question again is "so what?"
Neither christianity or islam are state religions, Nigeria is a secular country. Not all Nigerians are christian and muslims, there are a thousand and one religions in this country as well as people who have no religion and all of them have equal rights, even devil worshippers.
It was very sad to see senators quoting bible and koran on the senate floor with no objections raised. The senate president David Mark has several times used his christian faith as justification for this bill, something that should worry all right-thinking Nigerians. It means that if Senator Mark had happened to be a muslim, he would have no objection to passing sharia laws that are binding on non-muslims placing him in the same class as people like Sani Yerima (former Zamfara state governor, now senator and child molester).
This is very a dangerous precedent, we simply cannot allow people to pass laws based on religion. It will damage freedom of religion and destroy the peaceful coexistence between faiths. Any senator could now introduce a bill saying that unwed mothers should be stoned to death for adultery and use exactly the same argument as the anti-gäy marriage bill since this is advocated in both biblical law and sharia.
Nigerians should think very carefully before they knowingly weaken the constitutional provision that prevents fanatical muslims, for instance, from imposing sharia on all of us.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:27pm On Dec 08, 2011|
There is also the small matter of collateral damage. I mentioned earlier that this bill doesn't only affect hömösexuals. Anyone who cohabits with a member of the same sèx is at risk of imprisonment.
Imagine if 2 single, heterosexual men sharing a flat to save cost are falsely accused of being gäy. How do they defend themselves? How do you prove that a person is not gäy? How do you prove that a person is? There is no blood test for hömösexuality. There is no exam you can write to prove you're straight. Even having children proves nothing.
What about your right to privacy? Is the government going to start coming into your university hostel at night to check if you're smooching your roommate? The bill makes it illegal for a straight guy like me to write to my senator opposing the bill. It is now dangerous to hug your brother/sister in public.
The bill is so sweeping and and has so many possible unforseen consequences that I cannot understand how any rational person can support it.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:31pm On Dec 08, 2011|
The senate made very little attempt to investigate the gäy marriage issue. There are many important questions that are yet to be asked.
What percentage of Nigerians, male and female, are gäy? How many of that number are practicing homosèxuals? How many want to marry their gäy partners? How many gäy marriages have occured in the last 10 years? What evidence is there that it is becoming more common? What makes gäys the way they are? Are they born that way? Do they learn it in boarding school? Could it be related to childhood sèxual abuse? Can hömösexuality be cured? How is gäy marriage harmful to society? Are there any possible benefits? What are the public health implications? How will this bill affect the non-hömösexuals? How will the bill affect HIV/AIDS prevention work?
None of these questions were addressed on the senate floor. Neither the hömösexuals nor people who had real knowledge of them were allowed to speak their part during the public hearing. Instead, they were shouted down while the senators quoted bible.
This is the opposite of what should happen in a democracy. Even unpopular views need to be heard. All aspects of an issue must be explored before a law is passed.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:35pm On Dec 08, 2011|
The bill is an attempt to solve a problem that doesn't exist. How many nairalanders have ever met a gäy married couple? How many man-lover marriages have happened in the last 10 years?
Anyone who has done HIV/AIDS work can tell you that there is a huge gäy community in Nigeria probably numbering in millions. Yet all but a small handful of them are happy to remain hidden in the closet. Most of them have not told their loved ones about their sèxual orientation, many of them are in heterosexual marrieges due to family and social pressure. Most of the publicly known gäys were outed by journalists or busybodies against their will. Most fear being sacked, discriminated against, beaten up, or even killed if their status is ever revealed.
Gäy marrying is the last thing on the average nigerian hömösexual's mind. So why is the government talking about it? I think its because they want to distract people from the real problems like security, the impending government bankruptcy/fuel subsidy removal, widespread poverty, unemployment, corruption, and so on.
There is a saying that to keep the people happy, all you need is to give tham bread and circuses. The government can't give us bread (they've stolen all the money for it) so they are providing a circus. And you guys are all falling for it. Its so sad.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Lasinoh: 1:39pm On Dec 08, 2011|
Nice blog you gat going here.
Why dunnyoo go to the right section of NL?(Dear Diaries)
No one will disturb you there.
Why make it a big deal huh?
All these threads about same-sex marriage?
Is it this serious?
As long as they CANNOT ban same-sex or cross-se-xual, bi-holar anus/poohsie phocking. . .you should not worry about what the senile senators wanno do.
Abi you be victim?
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 1:43pm On Dec 08, 2011|
I'm particularly disappointed with David Mark on this issue. He has always portrayed himself as a sensible, level-headed person who takes his job seriously. Although there have been some worrying signs in the past (ammending the constitution to protect jumbo salaries, turning off the mic when senators say things he doesn't like), I've always had some respect for him. Until now.
It is unthinkable that a four term senator like Mr. Mark is ignorant of all the problems with this bill. That means he knows it goes against the letter and spirit of the constitution and he doesn't care. That, coupled with the powerful office he holds makes him extremely dangerous to Nigeria's democratic future.
I've decided based on his utterances on this bill to use all my little power and influence to make sure he never holds public office again. I'll vote against him, campaign against him, put insulting photoshops of him all over the internet and do whatever I can to end his political career for the good of the country.
I hope that others will join me.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Lasinoh: 1:55pm On Dec 08, 2011|
Here is an example of a man fighting for his own cause.
Let others around Nigeria come out of their closets and fight too.
You do not waste you time and energy fighting for what others believe.
Not a moral or ethical issue imho.
Only a matter of evolution. May the fittest survive!
I am surviving because I fight my own battles ALONE. . . TILL I DIE.
I don't need a sycophantic gang of ne'er-do-wells for assistance!
Sorry. . . Nigerians do not vote.
I don't fight a common cause for/with cowards.
I only fight my causes.
You are outta luck bro. Nairaland is like Nigeria.
You were born in the wrong place, at the wrong time, BY THE WRONG PEOPLE. You are stuck!
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Ovamboland(m): 2:05pm On Dec 08, 2011|
The average Nigerian is brash and intolerant; that is very obvious from this gay bill palaver
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by donkarly: 8:44pm On Dec 08, 2011|
@op, i didnt have d time to read ur lenghty post,but judging by d topic,u'r talking rubbish.there's nothing wrong about d anti-gay marriage bill.d only wrong thing here is same sex union which is not just evil,but alien to our culture.david mark n d senate deserve an applause for this feat.nigeria is not n can never be a haven for homosexuals.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 10:44pm On Dec 08, 2011|
But I still want to believe we have enough sensible people to defeat this bill and others like it. I don't want to give up on my country.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 11:44pm On Dec 08, 2011|
Always hear the other side, even when you don't like or agree with what they're saying. You have to understand that no matter how strong your beliefs are, in a democracy others have the right to disagree with you. One man's poison is another man's meat, we are not all the same.
Otherwise you might as well go and live in North Korea where everyone has the same religion, tradition, lifestyle and even haircut.
Also, I addressed this "gäy marriage is alien to our culture" argument in post #3. Maybe you should read just that and skip the rest if its too long for you.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by senbonzakura_kageyoshi: 12:44am On Dec 09, 2011|
@Evil Brain, unlike many Nigerians that will refuse to read the content once they've read the topic, I have gone through your posts and agree with you on certain points: the effects od this bill reach further than the senate has intended.however, i am yet to get the full gist of tne bill; is it that any gay couple gets sent to jail or just those that try to get married?
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Ovamboland(m): 7:27am On Dec 09, 2011|
Did i not just say it that the average Nigerian is brash? Why do we act before we think? The tragedy with Nigerian public is the fact that you oppose the bill on principle they quickly assume you must be a closet homo. The bill assaults basic freedoms guarateed by the constitution yet the public is cheering on. What more for a people who applaud when brigands seize their sovereignty via coup or corruption.
And come to think of it a craddle-robber who recently married a 13 year old was among the so called senators who passed the crazy bill. Very soon they will pass a bill that only missionary style is approved by the senate and criminalize oral type etc.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by kenifeh(m): 9:33am On Dec 09, 2011|
I think this thread should be closed by the moderators
No one is born homosexual. Our anatomy and the debilitating and deadly consequences related to going against our anatomy, HIV, AIDS, BehindBased gonorrhea, BehindBased warts, multiple psychological problems, and much, much more, prove we are all born heterosexual. It is truly sad, some choose to act out their sexuality in a way that is contrary to their biological heterosexuality and bring such harm to themselves and others.
The good news is homosexuality is not ingrained the same as race or eye colour. A white person cannot stop being white, even if they perceive it desirable to be a different race. I have black eyes and I am not able to make my eyes brown. I personally know a man who have spent years in the homosexual subculture and who by his own account had thousands of intimate encounters with hundreds of different men. My friends left the homosexual scene in the early 1990s and married a woman. The last time I talked to him he had five children. Clearly the heterosexual sex was working. He is now heading towards 2 decades of faithfulness to his vows and he has no desire to go back to that which was killing him.
Evil brain, pls stop populating this thread with your evil brain
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by senbonzakura_kageyoshi: 10:23am On Dec 09, 2011|
@kenifeh, your short attention span could be your undoing. you obviously did not read through at all.nobody is encouraging anybody to be gay.just pointing out this law can be a precedent to other laws, laws that may be against Nigerians.one day,the legislature can wake up and ban all kinds of pressure groups and use this law which Nigerians have hailed as precedent.again what if you are accused of being gay and u are not. how do you prove your innocence?like most Nigerians, you only feel, not think
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by senbonzakura_kageyoshi: 10:31am On Dec 09, 2011|
my main problem is not so much the bill as why it was passed.Nigerians never learn.each time government wants to do something Nigerians won't like,they use something to distract us.then while we are hailing or shouting,they do what they want without us knowing till it is too late.how many Nigerians will think of gay people when they start buying fuel for N150 per litre?nigerians keep falling for the carrot while ignoring the knife coming behind them
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Ovamboland(m): 10:33am On Dec 09, 2011|
See this one, did i not just say it, which peer reviewed scientific document did you refer to arrive at the above conclusions. Just conjecture, hearsay and bigotry. And where did Evil brain mention that he is homo. ?
The main issue is the provisions of that law not the right of the senators to frown at homo or not.
Have you wondered why treasury looters running to billions of naira get only maximum of 2 years jail term when caught while they prescribed 14 years for gay.s. Now which activity leads to potholes on roads, no drugs or doctors in hospitals, no power supply, no jobs? Treasury looting or homo?
We just have to live with the kind of senate we have, people who make laws based on emotions
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Kx: 11:26am On Dec 09, 2011|
Gays are getting all the attention when energy, economy, education are relegated.Shocking.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Evil Brain(m): 11:27am On Dec 09, 2011|
Well said. Notice that the government isn't saying a word about slashing politician's jumbo salaries, reducing corruption or cutting all the ridiculous waste from the budget. When they need to save money, the only idea they can think of is removing fuel subsidy and impoverishing the masses. Now with this gäy marriage rubbish, they've managed to both distract the people and weaken some inconvenient constitutional protections in one move. I mean, the whole country is falling apart and look at what we're busy talking about.
When the American government wants to strip their people of their rights, they use "national security" or "think of the children" as an excuse. In Nigeria, all you have to do is mention hömösèxuals and 160million people suddenly become irrational and stûpîd.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by gigabytes: 11:40am On Dec 09, 2011|
Rubish! this tread should not see the light of d day.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by brainpulse: 11:49am On Dec 09, 2011|
Pls leave this issue alone. In Democracy majority carries the day. In a society where culture and fundamental principle of man is valued, says it hates the culture that might affect the natural instinct and biological make-up of man. Homosexuality is a choice just like R*A*P*E and P*O*N*OG*RA*PH*IC and marriages Of Under-ages. That is the reason why people with these choices shouldn't be encouraged, but forced to go through psychological and social rehabilitation and integration.
One day if not some people of R*A*P*E association of Nigeria, P*O*N*OG*RA*P*HIC films investment of Nigeria and marriage Of Under-ages society of Nigeria will fight for a place. then you know that the monster you protected at birth will certainly be the destroyer of the family when left to rear. If all Nigerians irrespective of tribe, religion and social beliefs could rise up for the abolition of this societal decadence and cankerworm, know for sure God does not want it.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Knight1(m): 11:52am On Dec 09, 2011|
PERSONALLY, I DETEST HOMOSEXUALITY; AND I BELIEVE IT IS WRONG.
I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE SENATE DID RIGHT IN PASSING A BILL AGAINST IT EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THE COMMENTS THEY MADE WERE NOT WELL THOUGHT OUT.
BUT THERE IS ALSO THE ISSUE OF HUMAN RIGHTS, AND QUESTIONS TOO
E.G DOES A ANY PERSON ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE CONSENSUAL SEX WITH ANOTHER PERSON HE/SHE IS NOT MARRIED TO? WHETHER OF THE SAME GENDER OR NOT?
I BELIEVE THAT ALL COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE BUT CONSTITUTIONALLY, BUT FEW COUNTRIES PROSECUTE FORNICATORS
I THINK IF THE GAY COMMUNITY FEEL BAD ENOUGH, THEY SHOULD GO TO THE SUPREME COURT TO CHALLENGE THE LAW. IF THEY WIN THERE, WELL, IT WON'T BE SAID THAT NIGERIANS DID NOT PROCLAIM THERE STAND AGAINST THIS EVIL EVEN THOUGH OUR LAWS ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAKES US HANDICAP.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by brainpulse: 11:55am On Dec 09, 2011|
PLease my advice Evil Brain, for God, drop the support, never support what God hates and dislike, not everything must be taken for Joke in life. Your action can have great negative influence on your life. If God can destroy a whole Generation and a Nation for it. Dont dine with God on the wrong side of life.
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Baawaa: 11:58am On Dec 09, 2011|
What is wrong is wrong,it has no other name than is wrong,
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Miss EZ(f): 12:05pm On Dec 09, 2011|
As much as i detest homosexuality, it is wrong and a sinful act; i really do not support this Bill. How can you jail someone because they decided to date someone of the same sex. 14 years? that is absolute rubbish. To show the stupidity of the Bill, 14 years jail time was given to someone who may not ne a criminal, meanwhile the boko haram guy got 3 years for killing a whole lot of people. Where is justice? man-lover rights speaks more to fundamental human rights.
Like i earlier said, i do not think that homosexuality is a good practice, but If boko haram can get only 3 years for bombing up people, seems to me we are more afraid of a bunch of homos that bokos. Besides how is homosexuality better than child marriage? What is wrong is wrong, and if the goverment is going to crack down on wrong practices, Yerima should be in jail for marrying a kid, alot of the senators and politicians should also be in jail for stealing our country blind.
Homosexuality is not a part of our culture, i agree, homosexuality is wrong, i agree, but that bill is also wrong because it violates peoples human rights
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by youngies(m): 12:06pm On Dec 09, 2011|
From your postulations, I can see you are true believer in Democracy.
Things like freedom of association, speech and so on mean a lot to you.
1. As a true believer in democracy, don't you know that democracy guarantees that the majority will have their way, while minority their say.
2. Why are you not canvassing for the rights of other minority groups who also have rights to associate and speech. Such groups like armed robbers, p.rostitutes, drug dealers, smugglers, kidnappers, ritualists etc?
3. Why did you fail to demonize the Western democracies who criminalize free practices like bigamy? Don't you think that Bigamy is a cultural thingy?
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by dancewith: 12:11pm On Dec 09, 2011|
I understand we have numerous problems like corruption, high inflation, educational decay, unemployment and so on. However, these problems can only be addressed one by one. You see, we can only be silly if we do not realize this unfolding homosexuality syndrome in Nigeria is also an emerging problem and the senators are only right to tackle it. They have the tools to do so and they are perfectly in order to address this before it becomes a bigger problem.
If there are aspects of the law that proves problematic (like the Alabama, Maine & Arizona's immigration laws) those aspects can easily be repealed. But the bill itself is good and I believe you have ulterior motives to be so highly, strongly and critically against it?
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by Baawaa: 12:14pm On Dec 09, 2011|
Anybody that want to practice gay should go US
|Re: Why the "Anti-Gäy Marriage Bill" is Wrong by hollandis(f): 12:15pm On Dec 09, 2011|
Useless Nigerians and Africans with their infantile reasoning.Uslesss religious bigots
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