^^

so what was the booty? the land the prophet pbuh gave the Jews? or now you no longer accept Bukhari to be authentic and prefer ms-representing reality? Aboki, abi could you get a Yoruba translation of the hadiths under discussion, to enable you atleast have a grasp of what is being discussed?

LagosShia:
The hadith mentions properties in khaibar and fadak without specifying which properties because the hadith goes on to regard fadak and khaibar as "two properties".this is how the hadith concluded in collectively refering to both the land of fadak and khaibar as "two properties" belonging to the Prophet (sa): Dull!

now khaibar has turned from being entirely the property of the prophet pbuh to him only having a share, how do we aid this confuse people, that seem to be what is more important, it is like a man claiming several names to the extent he no longer recalls his real name. Believe me it is that bad he has twisted and turned in other words lied severally yet rather than have shame and sit down to undertsand his position he rushes from pillar to post seeking validation of his consuffion! pele, i will show pity on you, even with your rude manners

vedaxcool: ^^

so what was the booty? the land the prophet pbuh gave the Jews? or now you no longer accept Bukhari to be authentic and prefer ms-representing reality? Aboki, abi could you get a Yoruba translation of the hadiths under discussion, to enable you atleast have a grasp of what is being discussed?


now khaibar has turned from being entirely the property of the prophet pbuh to him only having a share, how do we aid this confuse people, that seem to be what is more important, it is like a man claiming several names to the extent he no longer recalls his real name. Believe me it is that bad he has twisted and turned in other words lied severally yet rather than have shame and sit down to undertsand his position he rushes from pillar to post seeking validation of his consuffion! pele, i will show pity on you, even with your rude manners

The Prophet (sa) owned khaibar and fadak regardless of what he offered muslims thereof.that is clear and irrelevant to our discussion.you lied the Prophet (sa) had no share but I really care less.

You can help my "confusion" and "pitiable condition" by helping us understand from whose share did Umar give Aisha eventually (as "inheritance" ).is it from what was offered to muslims individually by the Prophet (sa) and was their own that Umar confiscated or is it from what the Prophet (sa) owned and which he allowed jews to LABOR on and used to give his wives produce from,which are referred to collectively in the hadith as "two properties" belonging to the Prophet (sa)? Tell us please.

and don't take my patience for granted or be thinking you're smart or interestingly annoying.you're not.I'm giving you enough rope to destroy your reputation in the forum as an irrational person who resorts to childishness to derail a thread he has no case to make and nothing to defend.it will also tell bad on your beliefs and the Sunni version you claim to defend and represent.and mind you,if you think derailing others' thread by flooding it with silly posts is a monopoly you possess,you're mistaken.you should be ready or at least keep in mind that you could be paid in kind in your threads.you also cannot stop others from flooding your threads with posts however silly or reasonable they may be.so keep that in mind because children hardly think ahead.

LagosShia:

The Prophet (sa) owned khaibar and fadak regardless of what he offered muslims thereof.that is clear and irrelevant to our discussion.you lied the Prophet (sa) had no share but I really care less.

You can help my "confusion" and "pitiable condition" by helping us understand from whose share did Umar give Aisha eventually (as "inheritance" ).is it from what was offered to muslims individually by the Prophet (sa) and was their own that Umar confiscated or is it from what the Prophet (sa) owned and which he allowed jews to LABOR on and used to give his wives produce from,which are referred to collectively in the hadith as "two properties" belonging to the Prophet (sa)? Tell us please.

and don't take my patience for granted or be thinking you're smart or interestingly annoying.you're not.I'm giving you enough rope to destroy your reputation in the forum as an irrational person who resorts to childishness to derail a thread he has no case to make and nothing to defend.it will also tell bad on your beliefs and the Sunni version you claim to defend and represent.and mind you,if you think derailing others' thread by flooding it with silly posts is a monopoly you possess,you're mistaken.you should be ready or at least keep in mind that you could be paid in kind in your threads.you also cannot stop others from flooding your threads with posts however silly or reasonable they may be.so keep that in mind because children hardly think ahead.

LMAO , since your position is conflicting with the hadiths, and the hadith cleary spoke that the Prophet pbuh gave the land of khaibar to the jews, this same land when the jews were expelled became under the control of the ummah after the expulsion. The booty you speak about is what till now you cannot answer, keep threatening we dey laugh at you, Bukhari's hadith clearly speaks of the Jews being given the land of khaibar, and the battle of khaibar brought many booty. keep dilly dallying around the truth, it marks the infant intellect we have to deal with to get to the truth.

vedaxcool:

LMAO , since your position is conflicting with the hadiths, and the hadith cleary spoke that the Prophet pbuh gave the land of khaibar to the jews, this same land when the jews were expelled became under the control of the ummah after the expulsion. The booty you speak about is what till now you cannot answer, keep threatening we dey laugh at you, Bukhari's hadith clearly speaks of the Jews being given the land of khaibar, and the battle of khaibar brought many booty. keep dilly dallying around the truth, it marks the infant intellect we have to deal with to get to the truth.

So you read in the hadith that the Prophet (sa) gave them possession of the land? So which inheritance was Aisha asking her father to give her from the Prophet's (sa) "two properties" in khaibar and fadak? So now we are back to saying the Prophet (sa) had nothing? And from what did umar give aisha land in khaibar? Whose share? Nice attempt to hide and refuse to answer.obviously you're trying to "get me angry" by jeopardizing the thread and the discussion by talking any how and off point to annoy.but as usual children like rats can run but cannot hide.

LagosShia:

So you read in the hadith that the Prophet (sa) gave them possession of the land? So which inheritance was Aisha asking her father to give her from the Prophet's (sa) "two properties" in khaibar and fadak? So now we are back to saying the Prophet (sa) had nothing? And from what did umar give aisha land in khaibar? Whose share? Nice attempt to hide and refuse to answer.obviously you're trying to "get me angry" by jeopardizing the thread and the discussion by talking any how and off point to annoy.but as usual children like rats can run but cannot hide.

evidently you have major comprehension issues, which I have tried my best in rectifying. We ask what is the booty, we received no response, what i think I will do for you is to pray that Allah make your intellect capable of handling matured discussion. the fact that the hadith you posted clearly contradicts the case you are making indicates clearly shows that your case is a case of desperation and prove by any means possible. while that works in shia line of reasoning, we followers of Sunnah, do not reason like, we do not believe that when you cite an evidence that contradicts your position it means you have proved you fact. Evidence must be consistent on what you ar trying to prove, now in your desperation you say well they have something to hide, yet when Khoemini says that the hadith in which prophets do not leave behind inheritance is authentic an d should be trusted and accepted as fact, we hear a deafening silence which reflects the poor case you have brought to bear, while you are no scholar neither can you be considered anywhere near being important personality in shia , Khoemini, happens to be that and his position carries more substance than you twisted attempt and manipulating hadiths to say and mean what you want.

vedaxcool:


evidently you have major comprehension issues, which I have tried my best in rectifying. We ask what is the booty, we received no response, what i think I will do for you is to pray that Allah make your intellect capable of handling matured discussion. the fact that the hadith you posted clearly contradicts the case you are making indicates clearly shows that your case is a case of desperation and prove by any means possible. while that works in shia line of reasoning, we followers of Sunnah, do not reason like, we do not believe that when you cite an evidence that contradicts your position it means you have proved you fact. Evidence must be consistent on what you ar trying to prove, now in your desperation you say well they have something to hide, yet when Khoemini says that the hadith in which prophets do not leave behind inheritance is authentic an d should be trusted and accepted as fact, we hear a deafening silence which reflects the poor case you have brought to bear, while you are no scholar neither can you be considered anywhere near being important personality in shia , Khoemini, happens to be that and his position carries more substance than you twisted attempt and manipulating hadiths to say and mean what you want.

Lol *laughing*

Where did you read Ayatollah Khomeini accepting that "prophets don't leave inheritance"? I'd have left my reply short with a laugh,but I'm curious to know.

oh boy you indeed have been reading with you

the hadith is authentic enough for Khomeini to utilise it as evidence of the validity of his monumental political theory of Wilayat al-Faqih (the Rule of the Jurisprudent). He writes under the heading “Sahihat al-Qaddah” (the authentic narration of al-Qaddah):

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim narrates from his father, from Hammad ibn ‘Isa, on the authority of [‘Abdullah ibn Maymun] al-Qaddah that Abu ‘Abdillah [Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: Rasulullah (may Peace Be Upon Him) ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam said: “Whoever walks a path seeking therein knowledge, Allah will lead him on a road to Jannah... And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (al-Kafi, Kitab Fadl al-‘Ilm, Bab Sifat al-‘Ilm wa-Fadlihi, hadith no. 2)

To this narration Khomeini appends the following remark:

The narrators of this tradition are all reliable and trustworthy. The father of ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim [namely Ibrahim ibn Hashim] is not only reliable; he is one of the most reliable and trustworthy narrators. (al-Hukumat al-Islamiyyah, p. 133, published by Markaz Baqiyyat Allah al-A‘zam, Beirut)


Thereafter Khomeini points to another narration to the same effect that is recorded in al-Kafi with a weak chain of narration, and comments as follows:

This narration has been narrated with a slight difference to the same effect through another chain of narration that is weak, meaning that the chain is authentic up to Abul Bakhtari, but Abul Bakhtari himself is weak. That narration is as follows:

[It is narrated] from Muhammad ibn Yahya, from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa, from Muhammad ibn Khalid, from Abul Bakhtari, that Abu ‘Abdillah [Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: “Verily the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya. That is because the Ambiya do not leave dirhams or dinars as inheritance, but they leave their words.” . (al-Hukumat al-Islamiyyah, p. 133)

vedaxcool: oh boy you indeed have been reading with you

the hadith is authentic enough for Khomeini to utilise it as evidence of the validity of his monumental political theory of Wilayat al-Faqih (the Rule of the Jurisprudent). He writes under the heading “Sahihat al-Qaddah” (the authentic narration of al-Qaddah):

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim narrates from his father, from Hammad ibn ‘Isa, on the authority of [‘Abdullah ibn Maymun] al-Qaddah that Abu ‘Abdillah [Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: Rasulullah (may Peace Be Upon Him) ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam said: “Whoever walks a path seeking therein knowledge, Allah will lead him on a road to Jannah... And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (al-Kafi, Kitab Fadl al-‘Ilm, Bab Sifat al-‘Ilm wa-Fadlihi, hadith no. 2)

To this narration Khomeini appends the following remark:

The narrators of this tradition are all reliable and trustworthy. The father of ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim [namely Ibrahim ibn Hashim] is not only reliable; he is one of the most reliable and trustworthy narrators. (al-Hukumat al-Islamiyyah, p. 133, published by Markaz Baqiyyat Allah al-A‘zam, Beirut)


Thereafter Khomeini points to another narration to the same effect that is recorded in al-Kafi with a weak chain of narration, and comments as follows:

This narration has been narrated with a slight difference to the same effect through another chain of narration that is weak, meaning that the chain is authentic up to Abul Bakhtari, but Abul Bakhtari himself is weak. That narration is as follows:

[It is narrated] from Muhammad ibn Yahya, from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa, from Muhammad ibn Khalid, from Abul Bakhtari, that Abu ‘Abdillah [Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: “Verily the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya. That is because the Ambiya do not leave dirhams or dinars as inheritance, but they leave their words.” . (al-Hukumat al-Islamiyyah, p. 133)

The hadiths you presented in the above are self-explanatory.they describe scholars as "spiritual heirs" of prophets. the hadiths did not say what abu bakr claimed that "prophets do not leave inheritance".the hadiths say "... And the 'Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge"; i.e. for the scholars.

Now what if a prophet like our beloved Prophet Muhammad (sa) leave behind property as all indications show,does that mean his child cannot inherit from him based on the hadiths that scholars are the heirs of prophetic knowledge and not wealth? The hadiths say "prophets didn't leave dirhams and dinars as inheritance but knowledge" describing/explaining what it initially stated how scholars are heirs to the prophets.the hadiths explicitly in their context describe how the scholars are heirs of/inherited the prophets.it doesn't rule out the possibility that prophets can leave material inheritance to their kin but only describes how scholars inherit the prophets (not physically).obviously some people's faith is built on deep hypocrisy or open stupidity and blindness.I wonder how scholars being heirs to prophets while the prophets didn't leave money as inheritance for the scholars but knowledge become a rule that prophets cannot leave behind inheritance for their children?

Well if I want to be childish and annoying and descend to the level Vedaxcool have used in this thread,I can use this argument:

The hadiths are talking about dirhams and dinars (i.e. money) that prophets don't leave as inheritance and not land.

But on a sincere note the context of these hadiths both in arabic and english talk about/describe how scholars are (spiritual) heirs of prophets by inheriting knowledge and not wealth.in fact the hadiths does say scholars inherit prophetic knowledge while abu bakr's false testimony rule out the possibility entirely of prophets leaving inheritance.

LagosShia:

The hadiths you presented in the above are self-explanatory.they describe scholars as "spiritual heirs" of prophets. the hadiths did not say what abu bakr claimed that "prophets do not leave inheritance".the hadiths say "... And the 'Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge"; i.e. for the scholars.

Now what if a prophet like our beloved Prophet Muhammad (sa) leave behind property as all indications show,does that mean his child cannot inherit from him based on the hadiths that scholars are the heirs of prophetic knowledge and not wealth? The hadiths say "prophets didn't leave dirhams and dinars as inheritance but knowledge" describing/explaining what it initially stated how scholars are heirs to the prophets.the hadiths explicitly in their context describe how the scholars are heirs of/inherited the prophets.it doesn't rule out the possibility that prophets can leave material inheritance to their kin but only describes how scholars inherit the prophets (not physically).obviously some people's faith is built on deep hypocrisy or open stupidity and blindness.I wonder how scholars being heirs to prophets while the prophets didn't leave money as inheritance for the scholars but knowledge become a rule that prophets cannot leave behind inheritance for their children?

Well if I want to be childish and annoying and descend to the level Vedaxcool have used in this thread,I can use this argument:

The hadiths are talking about dirhams and dinars (i.e. money) that prophets don't leave as inheritance and not land.

But on a sincere note the context of these hadiths both in arabic and english talk about/describe how scholars are (spiritual) heirs of prophets by inheriting knowledge and not wealth.in fact the hadiths does say scholars inherit prophetic knowledge while abu bakr's false testimony rule out the possibility entirely of prophets leaving inheritance.

Lol , Our point has been proven, The prophet words are clear, we do not leave dirhams/dinars as inheritance but knowledge, in other words, we only leave Knowledge as inheritance. as we can also say of the pitaible man, the hadith diod not say we leave behind knowledge and land, buhaha and truly the signs of a frsutrated man denying the truth at every cost is very pitiful, we really ned to pray to Allah to guide this lost individual to the rigt path. That he has to result into denying the truth left right and centre shows clearly that the foundations of Shia is falsehood and it is through this falsehood that they intend to get to the truths of their path.

vedaxcool:

Lol , Our point has been proven, The prophet words are clear, we do not leave dirhams/dinars as inheritance but knowledge, in other words, we only leave Knowledge as inheritance. as we can also say of the pitaible man, the hadith diod not say we leave behind knowledge and lan, buhaha and truly the signs of a frsutrated man denying the truth at every cost is very pitiful, we really ned to pray to Allah to guide this lost individual to the rigt path. That he has to result into denying the truth left right and centre shows clearly that the foundations of Shia is falsehood and it is through this falsehood that they intend to get to the truths of their path.

Please get a brain scan ASAP!

The hadith did not say we leave behind Knowledge and land

vedaxcool: The hadith did not say we leave behind Knowledge and land

Nice one mumu but I guess the hadith is addressing scholars

Lol . And when we say karbala drunk people think we hyping matters, now to say the prophet pbuh particularly was speaking to scholars as if they wanted to inherit from him shows clearly that the words karbala and drunk are not far from such statement. Clearly the Prophet meant the inheritance he leaves behind is knowledge. Not knowledge and land. I hope we won't have to use Karbala and misfit together in describing the sheer dishonesty and intellectual incompetence we are dealing with. well can't that isn't funny.

vedaxcool: Lol . And when we say karbala drunk people think we hyping matters, now to say the prophet pbuh particularly was speaking to scholars as if they wanted to inherit from him shows clearly that the words karbala and drunk are not far from such statement. Clearly the Prophet meant the inheritance he leaves behind is knowledge. Not knowledge and land. I hope we won't have to use Karbala and misfit together in describing the sheer dishonesty and intellectual incompetence we are dealing with. well can't that isn't funny.

The Land Of Karbala In The Words Of The Prophet Muhammad (sa)"

https://www.nairaland.com/715245/land-karbala-words-prophet-muhammad

Lol my point has been made indeed!

vedaxcool: Lol my point has been made indeed!

Salam

Who is Fatima (as),the Daughter of Prophet Muhammad (sa)?

1.) Sahih al Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 157 Bab ul Nikah:

"Fatima is a part of my body, and I hate what she hates to see, and what hurts her, hurts me."

2.) Sahih al Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 61, Bab Fadail Fatima:

Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."

3.) Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 6000 Bab Fatima Binte Rasul:

Miswar b. Makhramah reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Fatima is a part of me. He in fact tortures me who tortures her.

"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification".
Al-Qur'an, Surah Al-Ahzab, Ayah 33

Sahih Muslim:
Narrated Ayesha:
One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Hussain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."

al-Hakim on page 149, Vol. 3, of Al-Mustadrak stated:

"The stars protect the inhabitants of earth against drowning, and my Ahl al­Bayt protect my nation against dissension. If a tribe among the Arabs differs from them, they will all then differ and become the party of Satan."

from al Mustadrak and Mishkat:

Abu Dharr narrates that Rasulullah (s) said 'Beware! My Ahlul-Bayt are like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarked in it is SAVED, and whoever turned away from it is perished'.

Sunan al-Tirmidhi 5/663 No. 3788

the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his family) said: I am leaving among you that which if you hold onto you will never go astray after me. One of them is greater than the other. It is the Book of Allah, a rope stretching from the heaven to the earth. The other is my itrah (progeny), my Ahlul-Bayt. The two will never be separated until they reach me at the Pond. Watch closely how you treat them both after me.

and you missed this?


Translation: It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?” She said: “Is it true what you say? He said three times: “What I say is true.” Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.

He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.

. . .

The Messenger of Allah then said: “O Ali! Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.”

vedaxcool: and you missed this?


Translation: It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?” She said: “Is it true what you say? He said three times: “What I say is true.” Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.

He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.

. . .

The Messenger of Allah then said: “O Ali! Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.”

I didn't miss it because it was already touched on in this thread.

Why didn't you quote the entire hadith? I did that in this thread earlier on in the previous page.I explained,refuted the dishonest claim by sunnis that Imam Ali (a) angered Sayyida Fatima (as) and what angered her was a rumour (which turned out to be a lie evident from the little you yourself quoted above) by mischief-makers one of whom was abu bakr.please stop derailing the thread.you have nothing to offer other than being childish and insulting.you don't have to stalk or be a troll in every thread that contains the word "Shia".you're living in painful denial and its fine with us because no one is forcing you to believe anything.just respect yourself if you want to enjoy your time on nairaland.else your threads will meet a similar fate even when they are of no concern to me.we are not going to abandon this thread to you because you decided to deliberately jeopardize it without the moderator banning you.

Back to what you quoted above.here is the link to the post where I earlier touched on the subject in this very thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/822675/actual-shia-position-sahaba/2#12453332

Paris-Love:
Very hypocritical coming from a man who had more than 13 wives.

Do unto others(daughters) as you would have them do unto yours(own daughters)

Salam

Mind your business.I'm not sure of what you're referring to as "hypocritical".take your islamophobia elsewhere.I know its unfortunate the wahhabi freak derailing the thread and his intolerance and misbehaviour is allowing miserable followers of blindness make reckless comment.but I'd ask you politely to respect yourself and take your islamophobia and christian zealotry elsewhere.thanks.

And the karbala misfits are really not getting it.


since Ali r.a made Fatima angry then we are left wondering what has stop this people from applying the hadith in the context they interpret it? Again my point has been proven, when people live by dishonest ways then they are left to wonder aimlessly around. The implication of applying their interpretation will not spear Ali r.a from their scathing remarks! Catch 22

vedaxcool: And the karbala misfits are really not getting it.


since Ali r.a made Fatima angry then we are left wondering what has stop this people from applying the hadith in the context they interpret it? Again my point has been proven, when people live by dishonest ways then they are left to wonder aimlessly around. The implication of applying their interpretation will not spear Ali r.a from their scathing remarks! Catch 22

If what will heal your condition is time,I'm ready to offer my time.

In simple english: the rumor which turned out to be a lie is what made Sayyida Fatima (as) angry.Imam Ali (as) did nothing wrong.if the rumor would have turned out to be true then yes you have a point.but the rumor was a lie concoted by troublemakers.so even if she (as) was angry not at those who made the lie but at Imam Ali (as),then it turned out that Imam Ali (as) was innocent and the blame for her anger should rest on those who made the lie to cause trouble.do you get? I doubt!

I think you should be called Romney, very good in telling straight faced lie. Sir the fact remain, Ali r.a will fall into the same accusation you lay against others. That is why we must be honest enough to understand what the prophet pbuh means when he speaks! You once quoted that the prophet pbuh said he would cut fatima r.a hand if she falls foul of the law. We understand this can't make him happy neither can we apply the words of the prophet pbuh against himself. So we understand when it comes to the law, the only thing that should be done is applying the law rightly and hence when Abubakr r.a applied the law rightly which khomini uses to justifies his own stance , it is what is right we consider and not the anger it attracks. And hence your pitiful attempt to always misappropriated the truth always falls flat on its head.

vedaxcool: I think you should be called Romney, very good in telling straight faced lie. Sir the fact remain, Ali r.a will fall into the same accusation you lay against others. That is why we must be honest enough to understand what the prophet pbuh means when he speaks! You once quoted that the prophet pbuh said he would cut fatima r.a hand if she falls foul of the law. We understand this can't make him happy neither can we apply the words of the prophet pbuh against himself. So we understand when it comes to the law, the only thing that should be done is applying the law rightly and hence when Abubakr r.a applied the law rightly which khomini uses to justifies his own stance , it is what is right we consider and not the anger it attracks. And hence your pitiful attempt to always misappropriated the truth always falls flat on its head.

LOL
As much as you're being silly,you're also very entertaining.I must give you credit for that.you'd make a good lawyer for our 419 politicians looting nigeria's money.

^

Likewise you would make a good lawyer for those billionaire ayatollahs stealing people zakat that is meant for the welfare of the poor! ok maybe they aren't stealing it quite but actually using it on themselves in order not to become poor!

vedaxcool: ^

Likewise you would make a good lawyer for those billionaire ayatollahs stealing people zakat that is meant for the welfare of the poor! ok maybe they aren't stealing it quite but actually using it on themselves in order not to become poor!

May Allah (swt)have mercy on you.you're reading too much trash.I pray you one day get the opportunity of visiting Najaf or Qom.then you'd regret what you're saying.you should feel ashamed of your fake sheikhs in sunni countries particularly the wahhabi ones like in saudi arabia who have made fatwa a business.they have been reduced to mere slaves to the royal family and the king.and you should find out what the Prophet (sa) said about the time when scholars are reduced to servants to the rulers.corrupt rulers for that matter who indulge in all worldly affairs and vices and who don't represent Islam.all they know is how to suck the people's blood and oil money.you're talking but you don't obviously know at who to direct your words.

Our ayatollahs get money from the faithfuls who generously give.they don't depend on government payroll.and our ayatollahs don't get government positions calling themselves "mufti of the republic" as sunni sheikhs in sunni countries.our ayatollahs gain legitimacy from the believers and merit on their acquired knowledge and wisdom.they are more powerful and influential and respected in the Shia world than the politicians/rulers and than your sunni sheikhs who are servants to the rulers.Shia ayatollahs don't depend on the money corrupt politicians embezzle.they maintain independence instead of subservience to corrupt rulers.

Gentlemen, I might have no choice than to lock and hide this thread if you don't stop this rubbish of name-calling and exchanging insults.

You've exerted your powers as posters long enough. Don't complain when I start exercising mine as Moderator.

maclatunji: Gentlemen, I might have no choice than to lock and hide this thread if you don't stop this rubbish of name-calling and exchanging insults.

You've exerted your powers as posters long enough. Don't complain when I start exercising mine as Moderator.

Thanks for your attention.your presence in this thread was long over due.you should have taken care of Vedaxcool and exert your power long before now.from his first post,his aim has been to derail this thread full of facts and evidence and make sure the thread either get locked or he turns it into a pile of rubbish.

I'm happy you're here.and I hope you'd warn him or even punish him for being a troll and spamming threads in which the word "Shia" appear.

I rest my case.

^
Good you rest your case, but why tell lies? Don't you think readers would simply read your post and discover that you had spent more time hurling insults than rebuttal of the point being made? Pls being honest should be the most simple thing for any muslim to do. And the most unfortunate thing is even right from the OP you started calling people names by labelling them nasibis and the same time pretending you won't to hold honest discussion. I think we all understand what u mean by honest discussion

Holy Quran 79:34-41
"But when the great calamity comes,That Day man shall remember what he strove for,And Hell-fire shall be manifest for him who sees,Then as for him who transgressed,And had preferred the life of this world,Then surely Hell-fire will he the Abode.And as for him who feared his Lord's presence and restrained the soul from the low desires,Then surely the Garden will be the Abode."