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Stats: 1063674 members, 1237875 topics. Date: Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 04:15 AM
Poll: I now believe Abacha may have been honest and Obasanjo / IBB deliberately discredited Abacha's name, because:His economic performance was on of best in Nigeria's history: 9% (1 vote)
PDP cronies - Abubakar Bagunu & Buba Marwa seem to be the people to link Abacha to the looted funds in Swiss banks appear to have been bribed by Obasanjo Govt to accuse Abacha: 9% (1 vote)
No witnesses appear to to give evidence against Abacha when Swiss lawyers came to Nigeria to collect evidence: 0% (0 votes)
Abdulsalami Abubakar /IBB/Obasanjo instigating a blind probe od=f Abacha and "discovering" billions of dollars in foreign accounts within days of Abacha's death prove they were out to discredit Abacha: 0% (0 votes)
None of above - I believe Abacha was a major looter: 81% (9 votes)
This poll has ended
Poll: Having read this thread, I believe that AbachaMay not have looted, his enemies bribed witnesses such as Abubakar Bagudu, claim that funds in foreign accounts belonged to Abacha: 9% (1 vote)
I believe Abacha was a big looter and I haveevidence other than the accusation that money "recovered" from Foreign banks belonged to him: 54% (6 votes)
I am not sure anymore: 36% (4 votes)
This poll will end in 2:12am On Apr 07, 2018
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by BlackBaron: 10:49pm On Dec 12, 2011|
Do tell what strain of canabis you're puffing
But then when ya finish, do pass the bong to our other resident conspiracist - 'Cap28'
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by jay bee(m): 10:59pm On Dec 12, 2011|
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by wesley80(m): 11:23pm On Dec 12, 2011|
Gen Buhari's big come out, How nice. Next in line G-B-A-W-E stay tuned.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by 9icelag: 11:41pm On Dec 12, 2011|
Who is Abacha was he a banker
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by hercules07: 11:43pm On Dec 12, 2011|
GenBuhari, we both share a love for Buhari, but on this I must disagree, Abacha stole and stole well, though, to his credit, the economy performed well under him, but, freedom is more important.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by Beaf: 11:51pm On Dec 12, 2011|
The Canonisation of Abacha
Nigeria Wants to Re-Write History
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by Abagworo(m): 12:30am On Dec 13, 2011|
The fact is that if Abacha could loot billions with crude oil selling at $9 and achieved all these, what about the past 10 years of oil selling above $70? Abacha did not annul June 12, IBB did. His human rights record might be poor based on media blackmail. I still rate him the most patriotic leader in my lifetime so far. I never really experienced Buhari but IBB was the President in my primary school days.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by JamesDoe: 12:33am On Dec 13, 2011|
Abacha was one man looting, If you loot in Abacha's time and he catches you - huge problems. He would rather loot and then give to a select few.
Babangida was a whole clique looting, IBB looted and his clique looted as well. We are back to the days of IBB with a huge clique feasting on the carcass that is our economy!
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by eGuerrilla(m): 1:26am On Dec 13, 2011|
The General is telling porkies by moonlight, possibly as a result of another episodic meltdown of sorts
If there ever was a case that perfectly exemplifies the clinical effects of unchecked sycophancy, this surely has to be it.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by Gbawe: 1:30am On Dec 13, 2011|
My friend, why don't you be a real man, get a woman and have some kids? that way you will , hopefully, be distracted enough to stop obsessing about other men.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 1:38am On Dec 13, 2011|
Here is how I believe Obasanjo and IBB made it appear that Abacha had stolen money
Obasanjo and Babangida pay one of their associates who may have a foreign bank account already, pose as Abacha's associate.
IBB or Obj would have money transferred into their account and then in court they would agree to refund money to Nigerian Government,
However when the case is reported to the press Obasanjo's representatives would say that Abacha and his associates have has agree in court that to refund whatever large amount typically between $20million and about $600million.
|For an instance if Abacha's had $0 and the associate had $1.5bn, some press reports would report Abacha and his cronies or associate or family and friends have $1.5bn in foreign accounts.
The reports never breadown how much of money attrituble to Abacha and how much to Obasanjo's hired "associates"
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 2:04am On Dec 13, 2011|
Now consider the following news story which is typical
18 October, 2001, BBC News 12:45 GMT 13:45 UK
Britain goes after Abacha millions
The British High Court has given the government the go-ahead to help Nigeria trace more than $1bn allegedly looted by late dictator Sani Abacha.
The decision came after lawyers failed to challenge a Home Office decision to help Nigerian and Swiss officials recover money said to have been traced to London.
The Press Association said the lawyers were acting for Mohammed Abacha, the dictator's son, and Abubakar Bagudu, Abacha's London-based partner.
Nigeria is trying to recover more than $3bn allegedly embezzled during General Abacha's rule which ended with his death in 1998.
Britain was asked last year to help recover the money.
Six months ago, Britain's financial watchdog, the Financial Services Authority, revealed that 23 London banks had handled $1.3bn belonging to family and friends of General Abacha.
Earlier this month, judicial authorities in Britain reportedly ordered some of the world's largest banks to freeze accounts believed to belong to the dictator
The big evidence I found that proves, my suspicion is that the named "associate" in the above BBC News story, Abubakar Bagudu turns out to be a full member of the PDP esablishment, who has been handsomely rewarded by being selected as PDP Senator for Kebbi 2008.
Ladies and Gentlemen this is the evidence that should indicate that there is a conspiracy to paint to delibrately paint Abacha as a looter.
Abubakar Atiku Bagudu was born on 26 December 1961. Although Bagudu claimed to come from a wealthy family owning millions, in fact his father was formerly the director of Primary Education in Kebbi. He obtained a BSc (Economics), Msc (Economics) and M.A. (International Affairs).
Bagudu became a close friend of Ibrahim and Mohammed Abacha, sons of military ruler Sani Abacha. He and Ibrahim Abacha were involved in a scheme to buy vaccines and resell them to the government at a steep mark-up, earning $66.6 million profit. Later, he helped divert much larger sums of money that had been earmarked for security spending into foreign accounts.
After Abacha died in 1998, the interim military government that followed started an investigation into misuse of state funds. Mohammed Abacha and Abubakar Atiku Bagudu, his business manager, returned $750m. At that time, there were no criminal prosecution. Bagudu moved to the USA in 2000, and in 2003 was detained there for six months on charges of financial misdeeds during the Abacha era. He was released in November 2003 on condition that he repaid about US$300 million to the Federal Government of Nigeria. The administration of President Olusegun Obasanjo apparently made a deal to recover part of the money in return for dropping prosecution and leaving the remainder with the family. Bagudu was Chairman of Phil Nugent Nigeria Ltd. from 2004 until December 2005
Have you noticed the total absence of reliable video interviews of Abacha's family members?
Nigerians please question everything you hear from our leaders and our corrupt press.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by eGuerrilla(m): 2:05am On Dec 13, 2011|
Subject Abacha Loot: Gon And Family Said Close To Agreement
Origin Embassy Abuja (Nigeria)
Cable time Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:02 UTC
Referenced by 02ABUJA2837
¶2. (C) According to a well-informed contact from Kano who cited Abacha's younger brother Kadiri as his source, the talks began soon after the Obasanjo Government assumed power, with once-and-present Attorney-General Godwin Kanu Agabi in the lead for the GON. Representing the Abachas were Sokoto politician and former Presidential aspirant Umaru Shinkafi, Abacha-era Minister Muhammad Kaloma Ali and Nigeria's one-time UN PermRep, Yusuff Maitama Sule. Source said the talks had stalled over the middlemen's demands for commissions and Mohammed Abacha's unwillingness to part with any money. The source opined that some means clearly had been found to compensate the middlemen; he understood the Abachas
(C) A second Kano-based source confirmed that the talks were near conclusion and cited Shinkafi, Kaloma Ali and one of Abacha's erstwhile political advisers, Sule Yahaya Hamma, as intermediaries. Asked about Maitama Sule, source commented that Maitama's standard of living exceeded his means, so he was always nosing
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 2:17am On Dec 13, 2011|
And the same Bagudu was Chairman of Phil Nugent Nigeria Ltd. from 2004 until December 2005,
A company that went on to be awarded a $1billion contract by the government
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by eGuerrilla(m): 11:16am On Dec 13, 2011|
It is either you understand very little about what is meant by a web of corruption or have simply become blinded by solidarity.
There is no linear path where corruption in Nigeria is concern, and it is for this reason that your attempt to define a single (money) trail, here, flies in the face of logic.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by haka_nai(m): 11:59am On Dec 13, 2011|
Guy, abeg wake up sharp sharp!!!!pinch yourself and count 1 to 10,the do it backward ( i will advice you get someone to make sure you do it right).Then come back and read everything you posted.
You mean his salary earned him all that property and stuff?? haba oga!! some how or some where it may have transpired via father,son,clique,cabal or wife etc. No be today naija start o!
Now i understand the op just want us to chat about something. good one atleast you succededin getting 2 pages.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by DrummaBoy(m): 12:02pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Where do get the strenghth to swim against the tide. I envy you O. Whether Abacha stole or not really doesn't matter anymore now. The man is dead. The recovered loot were certainly looted by his successors; or has any one seen an account given anywhere?
You know Beafy boy, if you exert half of the strength you use to descredit Buhari to advice your Oga GEJ on good governance, Nigeria will far more developed by now.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by One_Naira: 12:03pm On Dec 13, 2011|
OP how much did the Abacha family pay you?
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 12:18pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Whether or not Abacha is dead or not it is important that current and future generations get an accurate version of history to avoid making the same mistakes.
Please re- read my original post which I have added to and it would fair to assume that any money recovered was not looted by Abacha.
The evidence I just presented vindicates my assertion that cronies of IBB an OBJ were hired to pose as Abacha's associates in the court cases and the money supposedly refunded belong to the cronies. All this was a ruse to decieve Nigerians into believing their plot to blame Abacha for Nigeria's decline and to justify change of economic policy, to depend once again on IMF/World Bank and re-commence the looting of our treasury that Abacha had stopped since taking power after IBB stepped down.
Look at Abacha's achievements and you should be able to understand that he cared for the progress of Nigeria and does not appear to be achievement you can expect from a looter Head of State like IBB and OBj were.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 12:30pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Does the evidence I presented not lead to conclude that Obj and IBB were out to paint Abacha as a looter from the outset.
What is you view about this so-called Abacha associate Abubakar Bagudu , who turned out to be part of the PDP establishment that headed a company that won a $1bn government contract and later became PDP Senator for Kebbi State?
You have nothing to say about that?
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by BIGER BOY: 12:57pm On Dec 13, 2011|
as much as I am not for or against the topic. I will like the oponents to answer the allegation by the proponent
we shouldnt sacrifice prudence for convinience, just because abacha is a dead man we all love to hate.
NB. b4 anyone attacks me pls answer the question first.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by Beaf: 1:16pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Beaf: You will also notice that those who scream loudest against the removal of the subsidy are reps of those companies.
Deny the above or sharap.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 1:16pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Thanks BIGER BOY,
All I ask is for people to keep an open mind on the subject and start think for themselves and not taking everything they see on news media as gospel.
The nation had got to its present state of ruin because we have allowed ourselves to be deceived for so long we cannot seem to believe the truth when we are told it.
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by jmaine: 1:40pm On Dec 13, 2011|
More rounds . . .
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by jay bee(m): 1:53pm On Dec 13, 2011|
What's the salary of a seating president?
How did Abacha amass so much wealth when he is meant to be a common public servant?
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by oyb(m): 2:43pm On Dec 13, 2011|
genbuhari, not one of us can make sense out of this meaningless thread. what is the aim? to canonize a psychotic murderer, to deflect attention from the drunken in aso rock who makes far more bizarre utterances everyday?
buhari exonerated abacha - a gaffe , soldierly semper fi, whatever. like all humans he is not infallibel. give it up
ribadu exonerated patience - another weird gaffe.
you are allowing the gej lickspittle twats whose icon said he is ibb's son to jack off all over you
give it up already.
abacha was a murderer and thief.
where did the money for yeaa, abacha rice, abacha tvs etal come from?
where did the money for his fabulous residence come from?
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 2:54pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Have you seen independently verifiable evidence of Abacha's wealth?
If you have that info. let us have it.
Do not forget that the only source of information of Abacha's wealth has come from dishonest Obj and IBB.
Abacha most likely overpaid himself and treated state resources as his personal property, as most absolute dictators do, but I am sure it was not excessive or to the detriment of the country as Obj has been trying to label him.
It was Obj and IBB who looted Nigeria to ruin
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 3:00pm On Dec 13, 2011|
This is a profile of the senator who was used to deceive Nigeria that Abacha looted the billions he was falsely and maliciously accused of looting
So you are telling me that this information is pointless to you?
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by jay bee(m): 3:12pm On Dec 13, 2011|
This is what i don't get with you bro . . . . . . .
Why are you talking with both sides of your mouth?
You are trying to defend something that's as clear as they come. That my friend is exactly what's wrong with Nigeria. Don't ask question culture that will continue ruining the country we all want to call home.
So you are making us believe that IBB and OBJ lodged all the money in the swiss bank accounts? You are beyond unbelievable i tell ya. Do you honestly think it's that easy to just open unverifiable bank accounts then lodge huge amount of money inside of it?
do you even know why people lodge money in switzerland and all the other tax haven countries?
So you somewhat agree that he probably likely overpaid himself but yet he never stole from the country as stealing a little is justifiable compared to stealing more when compared to the likes of IBB and OBJ. A simple analysis should have told you the massive difference in the price of oil today and back then when Abacha was still in power.
Dude, you seriously need to stop smoking that ish. It ain't good for you.
Give it up already
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|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 3:56pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Jay bee ,
what do you say about Abubakar Bagunu?
What do you think a probe was done on Abacha to start with?
I do not have to convince people like you all I am doing is giving you evidence I discovered to support my theory that OBJ and IBB set out to label Abacha as a massive looter.
If either Obj or IBB performed even one-tenth as well as Abacha, who would criticise them?
Jay bee, if you have absolute power to draw your own salary it is very likely that you would not even with best intentions over-pay yourself.
Of course I do not know whether Abacha looted for sure, but one thing is certain, his economic performance is not what you would expect of a looter.
Also the fact that a member of PDP establishment was used to pose as a business partner of Abacha to get through the court case, to give credibility to their plot, and the fact that there is no evidence that the supposedly recovered money ever entered treasury coffers, lead me to suspect that this an big exercise in deceiving Nigeria.
A word is enough for the wise
|Re: Sani Abacha was honest & one of Nigeria's best ever leaders. by GenBuhari(m): 3:57pm On Dec 13, 2011|
Abubakar Bagudu appeared before a judge in Geneva for three days, last year. Here is what he told the court on 30 September, 1999.
''I am Abubakar Bagudu, a Nigerian citizen, born in Gwandu, in the northern part of the country in 1961. I belong to the Hausa tribe, one of the three major ethnic groups in the country. I first had compulsory primary education in Gwandu, then I studied economics in the University of Sokoto from 1979 to 1983. I then went to another university in Jos from 1988 to 1989, where I obtained my degree in economics. I was an assistant lecturer in the University of Sokoto between 1985 and 1989. Between 1983 and 1984, I did my NYSC for one year. From 1989 to 1991, I worked for Nigeria International Bank in Lagos.
I then went to Columbia University in New York from 1992 to 1993 where I obtained a master's degree in International Business.
In 1993 after my master's degree, I worked for six months in the World Bank in Washington. I wish to state that my master's degree was sponsored by the World Bank. In 1993, I came back to Nigeria. I engaged myself in consulting and international trade with my partner Mr. Ibrahim Turaki. We registered a company under the name EPCEL Ltd., Lagos. We represented the French company Pasteur Merieux Connaught. We were importing machinery.
Up till now, we are still in business and I maintain a home in Lagos, even though I now spend most of my time in London.
Mr. Ibrahim Turaki and I have stopped working for EPCEL Ltd., which we sold in 1995. In February 1994, Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha, eldest son of former head of state, General Sani Abacha, joined my partner and I to form the company, Morgan Procurement Corporation, Lagos, among others. We were mostly importing vaccines. One of the companies we established is Mecosta Securities Ltd., BVI, in October 1995. We intended to engage in debt recovery and arbitration between creditors and debtors. At the inception of Mecosta Securities Ltd., three of us namely Mr. Ibrahim Abacha, Mr. Mohammed Sani Abacha and myself had equal shares.
Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha died in a plane crash in January 1996.
On that occasion, Mr. Mohammed Sani Abacha, his brother, the next in line, took up the late brother's share in Morgan Procurement Corporation. He also took over the shares in Mecosta Securities Ltd. In fact, Mr. Mohammed Sani Abacha and I became equal shareholders in the company (50% - 50%). I have never held political office in Nigeria. However, my family has always been close to power. Members of my family have never held political or public office, with the exception of my father who was a Director of Primary Education in his state, Kebbi State, my state of origin. May I remind you that Nigeria is a federation of 36 states.
Kebbi State shares a border with Benin Republic. Commercially speaking, the state is highly developed because a large quantity of goods transit through it. My elder brother, Bello Bagudu, was elected a member of the federal parliament in February 1999. He is one of the six representing Kebbi State.
Neither myself nor any other member of the extended family has occupied public or political office. As for my business partners, Mr. Ibrahim Turaki was elected governor of Jigawa State in February 1999. Mr. Mohammed Sani Abacha has never held political or public office. However, as I said earlier, he is one of the sons of the former head of state, who died in June 1998.
Talking about money, my family is one of the rich families of Nigeria. I cannot state the exact figures of my family fortune.
I can state that no member of my family needs to work to earn a living. Each member of the family is engaged in managing the family assets. As for me, I do not need to work because I have a personal fortune worth tens of millions of US Dollars, though I cannot quote an exact figure. Moreover, my only wife also has a personal fortune, which comes from her family or gifts. My wife is not a member of the Abacha family, nor does she belong to any of the families that once ruled Nigeria. If I am not mistaking, members of my wife's family occupy no public or political post. I am aware that the judge will ask me about relationship with a few individuals.
General Sani Abacha He was head of state of Nigeria between November, 1993 and June 1998, up till his death at age 57. General Abacha took power under the following circumstances:
Following June 1993 elections organised by former head of state, General Babangida, a civilian president was elected namely Mr. Abiola. The elections were annulled by General Babangida, officially due to electoral malpractices; as a result of the annulment, there were riots and disturbance of public peace in the country; as a remedy, General Babangida decided to establish a transitional government and appointed Ernest Shonekan head of state. He was overthrown by General Sani Abacha. Before being appointed head of state, General Sani Abacha was a career military officer. He was one of the five most powerful military men in the country.
I met General Sani Abacha for the first time in 1979 in his house in Kano, his native town. I was introduced to him at home, by his son, Ibrahim Sani Abacha, but anytime I met him at home, I used to greet him. He knew I was one of the friends of his son and he knew my name. I do not think he knew any other member of my family. After he assumed power, I continued to meet him in the same manner as before. At no time did I have commercial or business links with General Sani Abacha. Our discussions were strictly limited to political exchanges. After the death of Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha, I continued visiting the home of the general as in the past, but this time in company of Mr. Mohammed Sani Abacha. At this juncture, the general became aware of my training, asked me a few questions on the economy, but we never had any business relationship.
Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha As I said earlier, he was my childhood friend. I knew him when we were very young. It is possible for him to bear Alhaji instead of Mister, which, according to Islamic culture, means that Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha has gone on pilgrimage to Mecca.
Therefore his name can also be Alhaji Ibrahim Sani Abacha. It was Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha who was my friend. Mr.Mohammed Sani Abacha only came in after the death of Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha. Ibrahim and Mohammed Sani Abacha brothers had an international sugar company. Therefore as early as 1985, we had business links without being business partners.
As far back as February 1994, Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha and myself became business partners and Morgan Procurement Corporation was established thereafter. Our partnership began under the following circumstances: For several years, even before I went on course to Washington, Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha, had proposed that we work together; I had been refusing because before 1993, I did not want to work and, in 1993, my job in Washington took most of my interest and time; I agreed to work with Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha in 1994 because the latter had a huge fortune and I had a lot of ideas about how to invest or manage the fortune. At that time, my fortune was much smaller than now. Even then, I did not need to work for a living.
Between February 1994 and today, my fortune has considerably increased and a big portion of it comes from funds deposited by the Central Bank of Nigeria in favour of Mecosta Securities, in the book of Goldmann Sachs, Zurich, in April 1997.
In reply to a question from the investigating judge, I explained that there is no direct link between the rise to power of General Sani Abacha in November 1993 and the fact that I accepted in February 1994 to become the business partner of his eldest son, Mr. Ibrahim Sani Abacha. It was only coincidental. However, it is probable that the fact that my new trading partner is the son of the head of state contributed to a large extent to the expansion of our business.
I am aware that my hearing will last at least a whole day, but I am prepared to go through it. I already have appointments tomorrow, but I can easily come back to Geneva. Meanwhile, I am leaving a copy of a diagram showing the itinerary of funds, the third agreement dated 16 August 1999 signed with Nigeria, as well as the draft law negotiated between the parties and which was to be deposited with High Court of London for authentication''.
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