odumchi:

Thread moved to politics.

EzeUche:

Are you sure this is the right move my Aro brother?

I do not want to see this thread descend into the abyss and become tainted by the politics section.

EzeUche:

Are you sure this is the right move my Aro brother?

I do not want to see this thread descend into the abyss and become tainted by the politics section.

Onlytruth:

@CyberG

The book you are citing is so narcissistic and almost laughable in its lame attempt to justify genocide by the Nigerians during the war.  The premise of the book is that because genocides happened elsewhere in the world, and was not so classified, it shouldn't be so classified in Africa. Ndigbo say that you do not tell a deaf man that a war has started. It is self evident. Therefore we don't need anybody to tell us what happened.
The book essentially says that ALL IS FAIR IN WAR; but then I wonder of what use is the Geneva Conventions of war. Fortunately there are also other books saying the opposite.

In one funny and lame attempt to justify the Asaba genocide, your author ( a very biased revisionist) states that the action of "one Biafran" by shooting a Nigerian officer, justified the execution of over 700 men and boys. 

Look, as far as I'm concerned, everybody is entitled to believe whatever they want.
I support this type of thread because it would help Ndigbo to keep focus. We forget too quickly.

I support this type of thread because it would help Ndigbo to keep focus. We forget too quickly.

CyberG:

^ Yes, I like this thread and it presents opportunity for everyone to learn and reach individual opinions rather than swallowing facts or fictions handed down by people who only saw what happened around them.

I don't doubt that you know about narcissism but I have a very profound knowledge of narcissism (and invite you to see my previous posts elsewhere). I am not here to defend any book but I ask you to present a different account of what caused the killings in Asaba. For your information, the book was published in August 1972, in extensive details, how could it be revisionist when the war ended in January 1970 and to sustain your charge of revisionism, you would need to point to other sources (cross-referenced) by other "neutral" sources in the war.

Yes, we are all entitled to our opinion but do you know that a lot of people here on NL care only about their point of view and would resort to insults if you don't so much as agree? Yes, those are the tribalists and I am sure you know them!

One_Naira:

Exactly What I told him.  He found a book that support his bias thus in his opinion, makes it accurate yet there are articles and other books which opposes his book thus in his opinion since it does not support his bias, that makes those articles and books a lie.  Relax101, posted videos of civilians discussing the war but CyberG labeled as yet another propaganda;  If civilians whom experienced the war are now liars in his opinion then it not something to be taking seriously.  Opinion is an opinion, he's entitled to his.

I SAW every part of the video and what books? Again, a book a la Frederick Forsyth and uncorroborated by other sources would be questionable as in reviews, the same book and author was reviewed as ". . .shamelessly pro-biafran. . ." with holes picked in some accounts in that book with counter-sources. I am not sure how engaged your are in scholarly works but this is the same ideas that guide every fact (not fiction) that you spent years learning in the class-room. The videos showed massacres and people giving THEIR own experience, and that is FACT - they saw it! Was it killings, massacres? Yes. Was it genocide, NO! If a polish general traveling and inspecting the conduct of war, in the company of others who all know what Hitlers genocide looked like and did not conclude genocide, would you believe him or a single story?

I agree with this, soon enough the survivors of the war would die from old age hopefully but their stories will always live on through this articles and interview.  I loved reading the articles and hearing other survivors stories apart from my father's whom experienced the Asaba genocide and lost his father is the progress.

Well, it is sad people were killed but it is not genocide! The US has lost 4,000+ in the Iraq/Afghan War and the other side has lost ~110,000. This so disproportionate and it must be genocide! The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour and killed ~2,400, wounded ~1,280. In retaliation the Americans killed between over 240,000 with just two bombs. This must be genocide or what do you think when you look at the hugely disproportionate numbers of causalities!

CyberG:

Ezeuche. . .I like your thread because it will bring people to read about the REAL HISTORY and find out the TRUTH rather than your phantom claim of genocide. There were definite incident that could be classified as genocide BEFORE the civil war. However, the one you allude to here were massacres without a definite pattern of genocide as attested to by the Observer Team in Nigeria (OTN) drawn from Britain, Canada, Poland, United Nations and OAU. They actually witnessed the conduct of war and produce several volumes of report that NEVER concluded genocide! Damning reports of massacres were made for which BOTH sides - BIAFRAN and NIGERIA were guilty! For people who read only a few lines: I AM NOT IN ANY WAY SAYING THAT MURDER OR MASSACRE IS ACCEPTABLE but Nigeria was in a state of war caused by the actions and inactions of several actors in the theater of conflict and it is naive or disingenuous to think you can go to war and VERY bad things won't happen!

Before I proceed, I very much doubt that you wrote that piece you have quoted so generously! As an educated person, plagiarism is a VERY REAL crime of theft and shows you as someone without integrity or ethics to credit an appropriate source of information but rather claim them as your original works and thought. That piece was taken from: http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/8stagesofgenocide.html/. This is not trivial as you may and you can not even blame being educated in Nigeria or not educated at all as the reason. Referencing other information appropriately does not detract from the fact that attribution of credit to your leading source of information was not provided!

Here are some detailed publication take from exhaustive, cross referenced, corroborated literature: The Brothers' War by John De St. Jorre.

John de St. Jorre was born in London and educated in Britain and Singapore.

His father came to Britain from the Seychelles Islands in the Indian Ocean where the family had settled after leaving France in the 18th century. His mother was English, the daughter of a London policeman.

After (British) military service in Malaysia and reading history at Oxford University, de St. Jorre embarked on a varied career that began with five years in the British Foreign Service, most of it in embassies in Africa.

He later studied Arabic in the Lebanon and then resigned to become a journalist.

Returning to Africa, he became the London OBSERVER's correspondent there and went on to assignments in Paris, the Middle East and New York.

Among other wars and revolutions, he covered the Nigerian-Biafran civil war, the 1973 Arab-Israeli conflict and the Islamic revolution in Iran.

ACM10:

I appreciate your effort to argue by quoting books in support of your position. Inasmuch as I would like to be convinced by your staunch defence of your position, I would also like to go back in time and gain a little knowledge of the background of the author you steadfastly quote his work like gospel. Since you did not make an attempt to provide that much needed information. I opted to give you some help.


[size=18pt]Who is John de St. Jorre?[/size]



It is well documented that European and American intelligence assets operate under the cover of a diplomat, freelance journalist, tourist, aid workers, businessmen, etc. Does John de St. Jorre qualify to be placed in any of these categories? We all know that Westerners don't declassify the names of their intelligence asset, even at death. For example, CIA only place star symbol at their memorial ground at CIA headquarters in Virginia, if any of their agents dies in action, but never publish their names.

With this background of John de St. Jorre and considering the role Britain played during the civil war, do you think that the account of Brits intelligence asset will be objective?

I honestly don't think so.

CyberG:

Your civil debate is appreciated. Unfortunately, I will be out and be back later to respond more. To your points, I am aware of the background of the author. His background however does not nor detract from his presentation of the account from both sides and many of his claims are well cross-referenced. I do not think I can provide enough e-pages to show places in which he disagreed other publishers (like Forsyth) citing works of more than one author to buttress his points. I suggest you read the book, it wouldn't hurt to get more knowledge.

One more important thing: you posted a very short part of his profile which you miss out several book publications, work and writing for several media outlets but you conjecture that he is an agent of the British intelligence? Well, except you or anyone can prove that, it is totally of no consequence to how for example, what precipitated the massacre at Asaba. Conspiracy theories are not new but if indeed you wish to place his work as some conspiracy, how come the main actors of the war including Ojukwu and many others DID NOT challenge his account and provide a different corroborated accounts? Look at this objectively. Yes, it is natural for discussions like this to me emotional and sentimental but at the end of the day, EVERYONE must learn from history because this is the only benefit we can derive going forward. Sentiments and emotions make objective learning totally impossible!

My destination is Onitsha, brothers and sisters. Let nobody stand on my way, for anything that stands on my way would be crushed.

Lieutenant Colonel Murtala Mohammed, in Radio Midwest, Benin City, Nigeria, circa September 21, 1967.

For record purposes, however, let me state fearlessly that I saw hundreds of unarmed [Igbo] civilians being shot at sight in Benin City when [Nigerian] Federal troops arrived to liberate the city from [Biafran] rebel soldiers,  There appeared to be a fleeting period of lunacy in which Midwesterners gladly identified their Igbo compatriots to be shot down by Federal troops.
Giwa Amu, former Solicitor-General of Midwestern Nigeria, reflecting on the civil war in the March 16, 1983 issue of the Sunday Observer.
Continued shelling of Onitsha by Nigeria soldiers from the Asaba banks of the River Niger.

November 19-24, 1967:
Several civilian targets were bombed by Nigerian bombers flowned by Russian and Egyptian mercenaries. Their targets were residential areas in Onitsha including the General Hospital, Dennis Memorial Grammar School, Christ the King College, Anglican All Saints Cathedral Onitsha, and the Magistrate's Court.


On three nights, Nigerian soldiers unsuccesfully attempted to cross the River Niger and capture the commercial city of Onitsha. Each time Onitsha was successfully defended by Biafran soldiers. Nigerian army actually captured downtown Onitsha and looted and set its famous market on fire. Biafran army succeeded in re-capturing Onitsha within three days. An entire battallion of Nigerian army were trapped and wiped out.

Volunteers from Ogidi went to Onitsha to help bury soldiers.

The ensuing face-to-face combat was within walking distance from our neighborhood. The Biafra soldiers used the civilians as human shields and lied to us that the gunshots we were hearing were their routine training exercise. The amazing thing was that we believed their story. We stayed I saw soldiers shooting at each other.

As we ran from from Odoakpu quarters of Onitsha, the streets were crowded with fleeing people. The streets were littered with bodies of people hit by the shellings.

Nigeria soldiers make three unsuccessful attempts to capture Onitsha. We lived at Odoakpu section, which is closer to the banks of the River Niger during the first attempt.

After the first attempt, we fled to Inland Town quarters of Onitsha called Umuasi village during the second and third attempts. During the second attack on Onitsha, soldiers who were ordered to go to the war front ran to our backyard (6C Wilkinson Road) to change into civilian uniforms. I recall seeing a Biafran soldier in the crowd as we fled to Ogidi.

1968
March 31, 1968: Biafran army won their biggest battle by ambushing and destroying a 96-vehicle column of Nigerian soldiers. The humiliating Abagana defeat prompted General Gowon to remove Col. Murtala Mohammed as the General Commanding Officer of the Onitsha sector.

Onitsha was finally captured by the Nigerian army.

Fled to Awka-Etiti with overnight stays at Oba, Nnewi, and Nnobi. After two months at the residence of an Awka-Etiti family, we moved into one of the refugee camps at Awka-Etiti --- a classroom of the now defunct Saint Joseph's Primary School. The majority of the residents at this refugee camp were survivors and escapees from the Asaba Dance of Death of October 1967.

My postal address: Chukwurah, Refugee
St. Joseph Refugee Camp
Awka-Etiti, Biafra
We were the only refugees from Onitsha in our camp. Most were those that fled the early October 1967 massacres in Asaba by troops commanded by General Murtala Mohammed.

April 26, 1968: In an article entitled "Nightmare in Biafra," Sunday Times (London, 4/26/68, p.12), a war reporter wrote: "I have seen things in Biafra this week which no man should have to see. Sights to search the heart and sicken the conscience I have seen children roasted alive, young girls torn in two by shrapnel, pregnant women eviscerated, and old men blown to fragments, I have seen these things and I have seen their cause: high-flying Russian Ilyushin jets operated by Federal Nigeria, dropping their bombs on civilian centres throughout Biafra ,  At Onitsha - the 300 strong congregation of the Apostolic Church decided to stay on while others fled and to pray for deliverance. Col. [Murtala] Mohammed's Second Division found them in the church, dragged them out, tied their hands behind their backs and executed them."
Sounds like fiction? Another eyewitness, William Norris, wrote in "The Times" of London of Thursday, April 25, 1968: "There is ,  a young English doctor, Dr. Jan Hyde and his wife who worked in a hospital near Onitsha until they were forced to leave when the Federal troops moved in. The Hydes tell a horrifying story of the Apostolic Church near their home, where the congregation decided to stay and pray for deliverance instead of fleeing before Federal advance ,
http://emeagwali.com/blogs/archives/1968/04/the_day_of_the.html  "

EzeUche:

I see no difference between what the Igbo suffered

And what the Jews suffered during the Holocaust.