brentkruge:

According to the Quran, Allah can deceive:

Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan
And (the unbelievers) schemed and planned, and Allah schemed also, and the best of schemers is Allah. S. 3:54

Remember how the unbelievers schemed against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or to slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They scheme and plot, but the best of schemers is Allah. S. 8:30

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. (1 Kings 20:22-23)

any explanation you can proffer for why the LORD sent a lying spirit in the mouth of prophets and why the LORD was speaking evil is also sufficient to explain your false accusations against the Qur'an.

davidylan:

allah cannot be the moon god simply because he says? what sort of non-argument is this?

I do not know what you are getting at, even a fo0l in the village will understand the simple arguement here! wasted my bandwidth reading this inane response!

@Judek2: A true story; Many years ago, a friend took his wife to Nigeria. It was the time of Shagari and Reagan as head of their respective country. So the wife saw the word president was written under the picture of Shagari. She exclaimed in shock "so Reagan is not the president of Nigeria?"

the above statement shows falsehood  of the statement and the lack of understanding of the wife, just like the falsehood of the pagan arabs saying that Allah was father, husband of some gods. The Allah that they never represented with any figure while the gods were.

The husband was shocked that his UCLA educated wife did make such a blunder not understanding the world community that america has a boundary that her presidency does not cover nigeria, similar to the surprise of the muslims to hear the claims of the pagans, since the very first revelation of few verses of Surah Alaq clearly shows that Allah is Independent of all creations.

by the way, at the time of the crucifiction, an incident much earlier, the one on the cross was said to have said Elah, Elah . . . . But the jews who were the crucifictioners said he said Elias. You see.

When the Messenger [as] recited what is in the Quran, the pagans heard what they wanted to hear, the statement you quoted being part of them in your own paganism.

When Jesus [as] at the crucifiction said Elah, Elah, the disbelieving jews who are paganic to what Jesus came with heard what they wanted to hear so that they make fun of him saying that he was calling Elias, while Ellah has accepted and guaranteed his safety by sending the holy spirit Malaika Jibril [as].

Do you see the fault in your statement similar to that of the jews hearing Jesus [as] calling Allah for the help and protection and the pagans listening to the Messenger [as] reciting Surah Najm.

LagosShia:

first before i touch on the meanings,i'd like to point that you are mistranslating those verses by the usage of ill-intended words.for instance using the word  "schemer" instead of "planner".

The root word used in these verses is Makr which means deception. Please study your Arabic well.

Qur'an 3:54
Arabic: ومكروا ومكر الله والله خير الماكرين
Transliteration: Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena
Literal: And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99
Arabic: افامنوا مكر الله فلايامن مكر الله الا القوم الخاسرون
Transliteration: Afaaminoo makra Allahi fala ya/manu makra Allahi illa alqawmu alkhasiroona
Literal: Did they secure God's scheme/deceit ? So no(one) trusts God's scheme/deceit except the nation the losers.

Qur'an 8:30
Arabic: واذ يمكر بك الذين كفروا ليثبتوك او يقتلوك او يخرجوك ويمكرون ويمكر الله والله خير الماكرين
Transliteration: Wa-ith yamkuru bika allatheena kafaroo liyuthbitooka aw yaqtulooka aw yukhrijooka wayamkuroona wayamkuru Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena
Literal: And when those who disbelieved deceive/scheme at you to affix/affirm you, or kill you, or bring you out, and they scheme/deceive , and God deceives/schemes and God (is) best (of) the deceivers/schemers

God is capable of guiding anyone.the verses you are quoting simply tell you of[b] the power of God to make you believe like a robot if He so wills[/b].

the verses also inform you that there are disbelievers so evil that God Himself has justly punished them by making sure they do not believe because they are evil.

My friend, God, in your estimation, must be wicked. If he could make you believe like a robot, then why will he make sure that you do not believe? If he could turn you to robot, then why allow you to be so evil? In essence he COULD save, but he chooses not to. Hasnt he mercy?   

let me show you verses of the Quran that clearly show that it is in the hands of man to do good and evil and to believe or disbelieve:

How can it be in the hands of man to do good and evil when you just said; there are disbelievers so evil that God Himself has justly punished them by making sure they do not believe

Is there no repentance in Allah's eyes

Who is this Allah?

Allah is one who leads to SIN/HELL

According to S. 9:51, nothing befalls Muslims except what Allah has ordained. And in S. 14:4, we are told,

"Allah leads astray whomsoever He will and guides whomsoever he will." So whats the need in worshiping HIM when he can lead me astray?

And,

"Whomsoever Allah guides, he is the one who follows the right way; and whomsoever He causes to err, these are the losers. And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; , Whomsoever Allah causes to err, there is no guide for him; and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on." [/b]S. 7:178-179, 186

"If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one People: but they will not cease to differ. Except those on whom thy Lord hath bestowed His Mercy: and for this did He create them: and the Word of thy Lord shall be fulfilled: [b]‘I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together.’" S. 11:118-119 (Note, its not their sin that will take them there. He will FILL hell not He will PUT in as a result of their wickedness.)

Not only does Allah guide people astray, but also has created men specifically for hell. To make matters worse, he even ordains the evil one commits as we have already seen in S. 17:16 and further clarified by this Muslim tradition:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle as saying:
Verily Allah has fixed the very portion of adultery which a man will indulge in, and which he of necessity must commit (or there would be no escape from it) ." Sahih Muslim #6421, 6422

I am for gender equally, so i assume women too will get their portion of adultery to engage in.

Overall, not nice

@the above,

foolish christians who follow blindly their brainwashing preachers and see "light" in ignorance do not deserve to be engaged.you are trying to teach a muslim like myself who knows arabic arabic.is that possible?

i will only list the barbarity of the so called "jehovah" you are proud of as recorded in the bible.unfortunately you have no shame and that even wont make a difference.i listed earlier how your bible deity clearly and explicitly is a deceptionist.but you dont care.you have grown a thick skin because confusion and nonsense is what you believe in e.g.:for god so loved the world that he killed "his only begotten son" who is said to be "beloved" to him.nonsense!!!


nontheless,i wont relent in exposing you fraud called christianity.so when you repeat your trash i will repeat the answer.

God is capable of guiding anyone.the verses you are quoting simply tell you of the power of God to make you believe like a robot if He so wills.

the verses also inform you that there are disbelievers so evil that God Himself has justly punished them by making sure they do not believe because they are evil.


let me show you verses of the Quran that clearly show that it is in the hands of man to do good and evil and to believe or disbelieve:


Surah 29:69
"As for [b]those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good".

Surah 25:57
"Say: I ask of you no reward for this, save that whoso will may choose a way unto his Lord.

Surah 45:22
"And Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with truth, and that every soul may be repaid what it hath earned.And they will not be wronged.

Surah 2:26
"Lo! Allah disdaineth not to coin the similitude even of a gnat. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord; but those who disbelieve say: What doth Allah wish (to teach) by such a similitude ? He misleadeth many thereby, and He guideth many thereby; and He misleadeth thereby only miscreants;

Surah 14:27
"Allah confirmeth those who believe by a firm saying in the life of the world and in the Hereafter, and Allah sendeth wrong-doers astray. And Allah doeth what He will".

Does the Bible God tempt people or not?
Genesis 22:1 and James 1:13
God tempted Abraham (Genesis 22:1) - "Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."

The KJV says, "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am"
God tempts no one (James 1:13) - "Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone."



BIBLE GOD DELUDES!
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



BIBLE GOD DECEIVES HIS PROPHETS
Ezekiel 14:9
9And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.



BIBLE GOD LEADING PEOPLE ASTRAY
John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


Isaiah 6:10
10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.


Isaiah 29:10
10For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

Judek2:

Have ye thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza And Manat, the third, the other? (53:19,20)

Then, originally, the verses (known today as the satanic verses) followed:

These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

The cranes whose intercession was recognized were, of course, the three deities. The same accounts tell us that after this revelation was completed, Muhammad, his followers and the pagan Arabs all prostrated.
Tensions eased, reconciliation was at hand, and all were delighted. But Muhammad soon retracted the reconciliation—how soon is not clear. For the account continues that Jibril (Gabriel), the angel of revelation, informed Muhammad that Satan had used Muhammad's desire for reconciliation with the pagan leaders to insert into the revelation of God the verses about the interceding cranes, otherwise called "the satanic verses".
The verses which follow, not the satanic verses, serve as
the proper sequence to 53:19,20 (above):

Are yours the males and His the females?
That indeed were an unfair division! (53:21,22)
In other words: When you Arabs have sons (whom you prefer to
daughters!), how unfair of you to say that God has daughters! The idea of a plurality of gods or goddesses or sons or daughters of God is ridiculous.

He claimed that Allah has no daughters,and they are mare illusions formed by their Fathers. This shows that they have been worshiping the same Allah and his daughters,but mohammad rejected the daughters to make Allah partnerless.

He also uses this to convince christians that God has no son,(Jesus) was just a man,and a prophet like him. His aim was to make Christians not to believe in Jesus as the son of the true God,cos he said,"He who rejects the Son rejects rejects the Father also,and he who sees me has seen my Father".
If Christians reject Jesus,they have rejected the true God,thereby accepting Allah as god.

Satan has many tricks to make people reject Jesus and therefore rejecting the true God.Mohammad was a very useful trick.
Satan is deciever and so Allah,afterall the Koran states that Allah is the best deciever.

dead wood accusation and old fashion refuted here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739943.160.html#msg9727499

Sweetnecta:

@Judek2: A true story; Many years ago, a friend took his wife to Nigeria. It was the time of Shagari and Reagan as head of their respective country. So the wife saw the word president was written under the picture of Shagari. She exclaimed in shock "so Reagan is not the president of Nigeria?"

the above statement shows falsehood  of the statement and the lack of understanding of the wife, just like the falsehood of the pagan arabs saying that Allah was father, husband of some gods. The Allah that they never represented with any figure while the gods were.

The husband was shocked that his UCLA educated wife did make such a blunder not understanding the world community that america has a boundary that her presidency does not cover nigeria, similar to the surprise of the muslims to hear the claims of the pagans, since the very first revelation of few verses of Surah Alaq clearly shows that Allah is Independent of all creations.

I'm not interested in your TRUE STORY.

by the way, at the time of the crucifiction, an incident much earlier, the one on the cross was said to have said Elah, Elah . . . . But the jews who were the crucifictioners said he said Elias. You see.

Mark reported "ELOI ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?"
And Mathew reported "ELI ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?"
The two words "ELOI and ELI" means the same thing in Hebrew.
So I dont know where you got your "ELAH" and "ELIAS" from.

The Jews heard ELI,and thought it to be Elijah, which was was a very clear hallucination of the subject.
Mohammad mandated the worship of the three goddesses and your claim of hallucination renders that editted Suras useless.

When the Messenger [as] recited what is in the Quran, the pagans heard what they wanted to hear, the statement you quoted being part of them in your own paganism.

What they wanted to hear was the worship of Allah's three daughters (godesses),and thats exactly what Mohammad recited for them. He made no mistake about that,and the pagans were not hallucinating.
He later abrogated it and tried to convince them that Allah has no daughters. Thus saying that it were Satans words.  Got it.

When Jesus [as] at the crucifiction said Elah, Elah, the disbelieving jews who are paganic to what Jesus came with heard what they wanted to hear so that they make fun of him saying that he was calling Elias, while Ellah has accepted and guaranteed his safety by sending the holy spirit Malaika Jibril [as].

Muslims never believed that he was crusified, and your story makes no sence.
Did Gabriel protect him after he has been crusified,because he spoke those words on the cross.
Since the story of the crusifiction makes no sence to you, why use it to back your claims?

Do you see the fault in your statement similar to that of the jews hearing Jesus [as] calling Allah for the help and protection and the pagans listening to the Messenger [as] reciting Surah Najm.

You sounds funny and deranged.
How could you even compare the two events?
The Pagans were not hallucinating atall, that was why Mohammad abrogated the verse because it contradicts Allahs monotheism.Then someone got the blame. D;
So stop replying like a dumb fellow.

Allah is not the God who created the Heavens and the earth

East:

Allah is not the God who created the Heavens and the earth

monkey!

no your jewish god did according to you.

@Lagosshia,
My dear Lagosshia, it seems that you left the issue at stake. Islam the blood line of Ishmael came to be as a result of mistake made by ABRAHAM. The mistake was that Abraham headed his wife Sarah in going to Hagar his bond maid. Hagar was a house help or a slave in the house of Abraham. Abraham got Ishmael as a result of that affair. If Abraham did not make that mistake , Islam would not be. Islam is a curse.

I have always wondered why Muslims are jittery of REAL academic inquiry into the Quran.

i stumbled upon this article taken as excepts from an article in the Asia times that captures my thoughts. It is not the clash of the two religions that interest me (Christianity and Islam) but the allergy of Muslims and Islam to inquiries in the Quran.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak03.html

It has long been known that variant copies of the Koran exist, including some found in 1972 in a paper grave at Sa'na in Yemen, the subject of a cover story in the January 1999 Atlantic Monthly. Before the Yemeni authorities shut the door to Western scholars, two German academics, Gerhard R Puin and H C Graf von Bothmer, made 35,000 microfilm copies, which remain at the University of the Saarland. Many scholars believe that the German archive, which includes photocopies of manuscripts as old as 700 AD, will provide more evidence of variation in the Koran.

The history of the archive reads like an Islamic version of the Da Vinci Code. It is not clear why its existence was occulted for sixty years, or why it has come to light now, or when scholars will have free access to it.
Apart from the little group at the University of the Saarland and a handful of others, though, the Western Academy is loathe to go near the issue. In the United States, where Arab and Islamic Studies rely on funding from the Gulf States, an interest in Koranic criticism is a failsafe way to commit career suicide. ,

The Islamic world is forced to adopt an openly irrational stance, employing its power to intimidate scholars and frustrate the search for truth. It is impossible for Muslims to propose a dialogue with Western religions, as 38 Islamic scholars did in an October 13 letter to Pope Benedict XVI and other Christian leaders, and rule the subject of text criticism out of the discussion.

Precisely for this reason, Church leaders see little basis for a dialogue with Islam. Jean-Louis Cardinal Tauran, who directs the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, told the French daily La Croix, "Muslims do not accept discussion about the Koran, because they say it was written under the dictates of God. With such an absolutist interpretation, it's difficult to discuss the contents of the faith."

Throughout the Internet, Islamist sites denounce the work of a handful of marginalized scholars as evidence of a plot by Christian missionaries to sabotage Islam. What the Muslim world cannot conceal is its vulnerability and fear in the face of Koranic criticism. In the great battle for converts through the Global South, this may turn out to be a paralyzing disadvantage.

ogoamaka99:

@Lagosshia,
My dear Lagosshia, it seems that you left the issue at stake. Islam the blood line of Ishmael came to be as a result of mistake made by ABRAHAM. The mistake was that Abraham headed his wife Sarah in going to Hagar his bond maid. Hagar was a house help or a slave in the house of Abraham. Abraham got Ishmael as a result of that affair. If Abraham did not make that mistake , Islam would not be. Islam is a curse.

God deprived Sarah of a son.the same God gave Abraham a son (Ishmael) through Hagar.so that is a blessing from God.otherwise,if it is a "curse" then Abraham is the father of that "curse" and that "curse" was planned by God.

moreover,we find out that christianity is the curse and christians believe in a curse.therefore you are cursed!

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Deuteronomy 21:23
His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shall in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

brentkruge:

I have always wondered why Muslims are jittery of REAL academic inquiry into the Quran.

i stumbled upon this article taken as excepts from an article in the Asia times that captures my thoughts. It is not the clash of the two religions that interest me (Christianity and Islam) but the allergy of Muslims and Islam to inquiries in the Quran.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak03.html

It has long been known that variant copies of the Koran exist, including some found in 1972 in a paper grave at Sa'na in Yemen, the subject of a cover story in the January 1999 Atlantic Monthly. Before the Yemeni authorities shut the door to Western scholars, two German academics, Gerhard R Puin and H C Graf von Bothmer, made 35,000 microfilm copies, which remain at the University of the Saarland. Many scholars believe that the German archive, which includes photocopies of manuscripts as old as 700 AD, will provide more evidence of variation in the Koran.

The history of the archive reads like an Islamic version of the Da Vinci Code. It is not clear why its existence was occulted for sixty years, or why it has come to light now, or when scholars will have free access to it.
Apart from the little group at the University of the Saarland and a handful of others, though, the Western Academy is loathe to go near the issue. In the United States, where Arab and Islamic Studies rely on funding from the Gulf States, an interest in Koranic criticism is a failsafe way to commit career suicide. ,

The Islamic world is forced to adopt an openly irrational stance, employing its power to intimidate scholars and frustrate the search for truth. It is impossible for Muslims to propose a dialogue with Western religions, as 38 Islamic scholars did in an October 13 letter to Pope Benedict XVI and other Christian leaders, and rule the subject of text criticism out of the discussion.

Precisely for this reason, Church leaders see little basis for a dialogue with Islam. Jean-Louis Cardinal Tauran, who directs the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, told the French daily La Croix, "Muslims do not accept discussion about the Koran, because they say it was written under the dictates of God. With such an absolutist interpretation, it's difficult to discuss the contents of the faith."

Throughout the Internet, Islamist sites denounce the work of a handful of marginalized scholars as evidence of a plot by Christian missionaries to sabotage Islam. What the Muslim world cannot conceal is its vulnerability and fear in the face of Koranic criticism. In the great battle for converts through the Global South, this may turn out to be a paralyzing disadvantage.

firstly you are desperate and confused for pulling a redherring and raising the Quran as a topic.

secondly,does the existence of a varied copy of Quranic verses challenge the validity of the Quran?No!

why? because the Quran had being preserved and today muslims of all sects only have ONE Quran.in the early in the time of Usthman we muslims proclaim that varying texts of the Quran started appearing as a result of other races and peoples who embraced Islam and distorted the Quranic recitation.therefore under the directive of Usthman,all varying texts were burnt and the pure record of the Quran as revealed to Muhammad (sa) was made into copies and distributed.that is what we have up to this day.

bible scholars also say there are 24000 manuscripts of the bible of which no two are identical!!!
but you christians,with each denomination have a different version of the bible.so have mercy on yourself and show some shame!!!

LagosShia:

firstly you are desperate and confused for pulling a redherring and raising the Quran as a topic.

secondly,does the existence of a varied copy of Quranic verses challenge the validity of the Quran?No!

why? because the Quran had being preserved and today muslims of all sects only have ONE Quran.in the early in the time of Usthman we muslims proclaim that varying texts of the Quran started appearing as a result of other races and peoples who embraced Islam and distorted the Quranic recitation.therefore under the directive of Usthman,all varying texts were burnt and the pure record of the Quran as revealed to Muhammad (sa) was made into copies and distributed.that is what we have up to this day.

bible scholars also say there are 24000 manuscripts of the bible of which no two are identical!!!
but you christians,with each denomination have a different version of the bible.so have mercy on yourself and show some shame!!!

Firstly, Allah is best described from the Quran, cos there is no other text to get it from. So the study of the Quran is the best way to understand Allah. I am surprised you cant make that connection.

Secondly, the existance of varied copies of the Quran is important because of the third point

Thirdly, under Uthman, OTHER Quranic texts were burnt, how did he know his own was the authentic one? (There is a long commentary on how he went about this, you can study that on your own as I cannot reproduce them here).

Finally, I am not a Christian, so Christians here can respond to you.

Firstly, Allah is best described from the Quran, cos there is no other text to get it from. So the study of the Quran is the best way to understand Allah. I am surprised you cant make that connection.

we are told in the Quran Allah is the God of Adam,Noah,Abraham,Moses,Jesus and Muhammad (sa).you keep claiming you are not christians but you cling on to the argument of "other texts".if you are not christian,then open a thread and discuss islam from your POV.you are discussing in this thread which was created by a christian to attack Islam.so you'd be treated the same way as the OP.

Secondly, the existance of varied copies of the Quran is important because of the third point

Thirdly, under Uthman, OTHER Quranic texts were burnt, how did he know his own was the authentic one? (There is a long commentary on how he went about this, you can study that on your own as I cannot reproduce them here).

Finally, I am not a Christian, so Christians here can respond to you.

the texts that were burnt are copies taken from the new converts who would record what they hear or mis-heard.the Quran was recorded from the days of the Prophet (sa) and memorised.even new converts in europe today copy the Quran based on their own pronunciations or accents and distort the Quranic texts,their copies would be burnt again.that is not news or some shocking news you make it look when propagandizing against Islam.

To my own understanding,Allah is NOT the God the Christians serve!, If they are the same, HE can't be saying a thing here and saying another thing there and since Christianity came before Islam,definitely the one that came late is false!

Prof kenny:

To my own understanding,Allah is NOT the God the Christians serve!, If they are the same, HE can't be saying a thing here and saying another thing there and since Christianity came before Islam,definitely the one that came late is false!

and it also looks like the one in the old testament is not the same one in the new testament.he cant be saying one thing there and another elsewhere.Judaism came before christianity.definitely,the one that came later is false.Jews dont believe in Jesus!

also,christianity came after Jesus,so i wonder how christians claim to follow Jesus.Islam indeed restored what Jesus taught.

we are told in the Quran Allah is the God of Adam,Noah,Abraham,Moses,Jesus and Muhammad (sa).you keep claiming you are not christians but you cling on to the argument of "other texts".if you are not christian,then open a thread and discuss islam from your POV.you are discussing in this thread which was created by a christian to attack Islam.so you'd be treated the same way as the OP.

The topic of the tread is clear WHO IS THIS ALLAH?

I used to be a Muslim. From where I am coming from this topic is of tremendous interest. I have studied Christianity and Islam. Islam is like a cancer that is causing so much trouble in the world. My not being a Christian is not an issue at all if the discussion is based on the TRUTH and what IS.

As long as its an open discussion I will join in, refer any text I choose because as a world citizen I have felt first hand the effects of Islam. So prepare for my intervention as someone who was once on the inside.   

Haha! funny thread.See so called black muslims arguing over a religion that doesnt even accept them!

lepa is a liar. she is probably too orobo to see clearly. ha ha [simpson cartoon]. you need glasses alice to see. an imam of the haram masjid is dark as a charcoal. so you opinion is banza. ha ha to you again.

@brentkruge; « #51 on: Today at 05:53:38 PM »
[Quote]Quote
we are told in the Quran Allah is the God of Adam,Noah,Abraham,Moses,Jesus and Muhammad (sa).you keep claiming you are not christians but you cling on to the argument of "other texts".if you are not christian,then open a thread and discuss islam from your POV.you are discussing in this thread which was created by a christian to attack Islam.so you'd be treated the same way as the OP.

The topic of the tread is clear WHO IS THIS ALLAH?

I used to be a Muslim. From where I am coming from this topic is of tremendous interest. I have studied Christianity and Islam. Islam is like a cancer that is causing so much trouble in the world. My not being a Christian is not an issue at all if the discussion is based on the TRUTH and what IS.

As long as its an open discussion I will join in, refer any text I choose because as a world citizen I have felt first hand the effects of Islam. So prepare for my intervention as someone who was once on the inside. Tongue[/Quote]Your name is interesting as in north sea brent and kroger. tell me about Islam. something i don't know. many men say all the palava of this world is borne upon women. men are saying it, especially the bible readers. then many others, not including me thank God because i know the sweetness of women. But then women are the most essential specie on earth. do we get rid of women as you wish to get rid of Islam while both of them are misunderstood by evil mind among men, but in actuality both are the carriers of goodness; women, nurturer, the fragrance of beauty [they calm my nerves for sure], mothers, pleasing to the eyes if she is yours, while Islam perfects good manners, ability to be close to God without intermediaries like the hindus, etc, etc, etc [christians, etc], etc, etc. Islam humbles you and gives you rest of mind an gladness of heart. But then in spite of the qualities of women, you will have from her rank some who are not motherly, not attractive like the full moon, etc so it is not surprising that we have some people who are bad in spite of their saying that they are muslims.

mehn, tell me something i don't now. i have been on earth long enough to know that if a single person is cloned to an un-person like you, to a hindu, to a jew, to a christian and to a muslim at the same time, in every stage of true faith in obedience, getting along with others, morality, cleanliness, etc, etc, the muslim specie will be the number one in every good quality and will be the last in every bad quality.

The is nothing one can do, when a sick person refuse to take is medication claiming is well more healthy than the doctor who prescribed the medication.
hw do arab christians call God almighty, definately nt isa son of mariam. since a white man can nt come to oyo town & teach alafin the name of God in yoruba so also is it nt possible to teach an arab man hw to call God in arabic. let us always b open to new knowledge.

Sweetnecta:

@brentkruge; « #51 on: Today at 05:53:38 PM »Your name is interesting as in north sea brent and kroger. tell me about Islam. something i don't know. many men say all the palava of this world is borne upon women. men are saying it, especially the bible readers. then many others, not including me thank God because i know the sweetness of women. But then women are the most essential specie on earth. do we get rid of women as you wish to get rid of Islam while both of them are misunderstood by evil mind among men, but in actuality both are the carriers of goodness; women, nurturer, the fragrance of beauty [they calm my nerves for sure], mothers, pleasing to the eyes if she is yours, while Islam perfects good manners, ability to be close to God without intermediaries like the hindus, etc, etc, etc [christians, etc], etc, etc. Islam humbles you and gives you rest of mind an gladness of heart. But then in spite of the qualities of women, you will have from her rank some who are not motherly, not attractive like the full moon, etc so it is not surprising that we have some people who are bad in spite of their saying that they are muslims.

mehn, tell me something i don't now. i have been on earth long enough to know that if a single person is cloned to an un-person like you, to a hindu, to a jew, to a christian and to a muslim at the same time, in every stage of true faith in obedience, getting along with others, morality, cleanliness, etc, etc, the muslim specie will be the number one in every good quality and will be the last in every bad quality.

The name has a sentimental value. You almost got the full import. It reminds me of a particular period when life was less crazy.

Islam has a pretty unflattering things to say about women. There may be nice verses like the world at the feet of mothers, and had tremendously improved the conditions of women from Pre-islamic Arabia (when women were treated horribly), its stuck in a time warp of 7th Century Arabia;

-  The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs - Sahih Bukhari 1:9:493 (Comparing women to donkeys and dogs)

-  I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.- Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301 (Women are deficient in Intelligence to which I vehemently disagree!)

- Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. -Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301 (Your testimony is worth half a man's)

- A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife. - Abu Dawud 11:2142 (No questions asked for your husband beating you to pulp. Aisha, one of Muhammed's wife notes: "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!  Sahih Bukhari 7:72:715)

- And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand - Qur'an 4:34 (When your husband strikes you, dont ask why)

- What about the hereafter (heaven of hell?) The Quran says there are more women in hell and for heaven, there will be virgins and women  for the men, and young boys. What do women get? I am still searching - Qur'an 78:33

- Then of course the case of the Child Bride, Aisha. I look at my little 9/10 year old sweet nieces and I know there will be no chance on earth I could live with the fact that someone could force himself on them. But it happened. I cant call that man a Prophet. I have heard all the excuses made for the fact, but if the Hadith is correct, I can't buy it. If I buy it because of some excuses, then the Hadith is wrong

mehn, tell me something i don't now. i have been on earth long enough to know that if a single person is cloned to an un-person like you, to a hindu, to a jew, to a christian and to a muslim at the same time, in every stage of true faith in obedience, getting along with others, morality, cleanliness, etc, etc, the muslim specie will be the number one in every good quality and will be the last in every bad quality.

You see why Islam is such an oddball, just because someone is not a Muslim or has left, he becomes an "un-person", he or she is no more human. Apostates sometimes are killed, which is a shame really. I have never heard someone from any other religion who has left treated as bad as Islam does. If I am lying, try this test (at your own risk) walk up to your folks and Imam and tell them you have left Islam (I must say though that most  Nigerian south western Muslims are quite liberal unlike their northern counterpart).

Its like a cult really, once in you cant leave! If you leave, you are hunted  and could lose your life. If death is not a threat to apostates, millions will ditch Islam. Its like living with a gun constantly to your head. Always.

I wonder how you reached your conclusion about the Muslim specie (as you put it) is the best? Even if he is a murderer? A thief? A despoiler? You are offering an opinion.

brentkruge:

The topic of the tread is clear WHO IS THIS ALLAH?

I used to be a Muslim. From where I am coming from this topic is of tremendous interest. I have studied Christianity and Islam. Islam is like a cancer that is causing so much trouble in the world. My not being a Christian is not an issue at all if the discussion is based on the TRUTH and what IS.

you are lost.and if you claim to have being a muslim who does not know the name of God he claimed to have worshipped,then someone deserves to be cursed.dont ask me who;it will hurt you to know.

As long as its an open discussion I will join in, refer any text I choose because as a world citizen I have felt first hand the effects of Islam. So prepare for my intervention as someone who was once on the inside.   

you claim to be neutral but you are not.in all the threads,you portray this innocent neutral third party who is neither muslim nor christian.yet you follow the christian line of thinking to make a source of distraction.you are here to deceive people you are not christian.if you condemn Islam,then christianity should be no better for you.at least that is the position of sincere atheists on this forum.but you are here to support one side and think you are neutral.

if you have your own case,then kindly open a thread,and tell us why you left islam,who you are and what you are now.then we will deal with each issue.but for you to come in to confuse the arguments between christians and muslims,is dishonest.if a christian is questioning the name "ALLAH",i can point out to him that the name is found also in the bible.but how can someone who is not christian,and is not muslims,pose a christian missionary question and expect anyone to believe he is not christian.would you accept me to refer you to the bible?so,tell me what you are.an atheist or irreligious person,would care less if God's name is "Allah","jehovah" or  even "shiva" or "sango".so let me make a small good promise to you:dont waste your time because you will be exposed for what you are.i and my muslim brothers would not be distracted by you or the schemes of frosbel.you could just be another of his infamous usernames to show the freak in him.we will continue spreading the truth of islam and exposing the falsehood f christianity and the dishonesty of christians and their "pious fraud".so if you think you'd be a new war front to be throwing attacks on muslims while pretending to be neutral it would be of no avail to you.you'd be humbled and treated like the stock of pigs we have already in the house.

Say ALLAH is one
he is independent
he begot not, nor was he begotten
and there is no one like him
@jude, you are lost. But surely, ALLAH guides whom he wills, dere is nothing i can say to ease off the hatred you have for islam.
Till ALLAH guides you, i will leave you to your infinite problems

@Lagosshia and sweetnecta, ALLAH would increase you in knowledge and undersatanding.
Baraka lahu fihi

@Ruqaya,
Who is this Allah? Is he or she still alive?

Sincerely,Allah is dead!, It's simply the moon god

^^^^ Just because you can see does not mean non existence. After all you dont see the wind, but feel the effect. thats even a thing created and you are lying about your Creator?

@brentruge; « #56 on: January 13, 2012, 11:57 PM »
[Quote]The name has a sentimental value. You almost got the full import. It reminds me of a particular period when life was less crazy.[/Quote]So whats your religion or you don't have any? I will argue from the assumption that you are a christian from the most part.


[Quote]Islam has a pretty unflattering things to say about women. There may be nice verses like the world at the feet of mothers, and had tremendously improved the conditions of women from Pre-islamic Arabia (when women were treated horribly), its stuck in a time warp of 7th Century Arabia;[/Quote]Its the woman that you created that made me disobeyed You, God. Does that ring a bell, from your Bibles? Who is more unfair than the one who refused to take responsibility? Blame the woman Bible Adam. Blame her and absorb yourself of any personal responsibility for your action. After all she did not open your mouth and make you take a bit and munch of the "apple". is this quality of denying the obvious, not wanting to be responsible the 21st century quality, while saying by the messenger [as] that women are in general more deficient than men in somethings? by the way the bold is not a verse, mr. ignorant, but a statement of sunnah showing the importance of mothers, the woman, the gender that must be given 3 times before giving the father for the very first time.


[Quote]- The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs - Sahih Bukhari 1:9:493 (Comparing women to donkeys and dogs)[/Quote]What are conditions that makes any of these able to annul salaat prayer? If a woman is 500 yards away from you, is your salaah annulled? Of course not. She must have to be within your space of sutra; distance less than you making a fist and stretching your arm forward. if you are young and newly married to a beautiful wife, your blood will be boiling every time you see her. then she passes in front of you in her fun dress. How easy it will be to concentrate without wanting to be a nagelmaker? I know why pretty woman must not be praying in front of young eligible bachelors praying behind her. The messenger [as] told a young newly wed that he should not hold hands with his wife when they are fasting in Ramadhan. Just then an old man who has been married to his wife as long as you know what asked the same question. the answer was different; yes you can hold hands because you see your wife now as almost a very dear friend and your blood is not boiling like the two young birds who want to crush each other all the time.


[Quote]- I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.- Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301 (Women are deficient in Intelligence to which I vehemently disagree!)[/Quote]Women by and large are more emotional than men. And emotion affects the sense of logic and practical applications. And most women will yield to men and probably abandon her religion for the husband. These are facts and they are the reasons for the statements of the messenger [as] since we know that many women around the messenger became Islamic scholars. So being deficient on intelligence and religion are not to say that this is across the board on women and all women are below all men, since from men we have disbelievers while there are many muslim women.


[Quote]- Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. -Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301 (Your testimony is worth half a man's)]/Quote] women are emotional and that is the reason for the 2 women for 1 man in matters of witness. A true story about a christian family to illustrate the emotional condition of women. a friend deposit some money under his baby brother's name. He told him not to touch it because it actually belongs to his wife. The brother withdrew all of the money for business. the big brother called for the money and discover what has happened. when the funds were not returned, he ased his younger sister to go to the police precinct and arrange for the arrest of the brother. the sister was so emotional that the brother is now looking for somebody outside the family to get the young brother arrested.


[Quote]- A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife. - Abu Dawud 11:2142 (No questions asked for your husband beating you to pulp. Aisha, one of Muhammed's wife notes: "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! Sahih Bukhari 7:72:715)[/Quote]And neither Aisha [ra] nor he other wives [ra] of the holy prophet [as] was beaten to pulp. we now how Allah says wife can be beating; the way Job [as] beat his wife. We can see a man leaving his wife for dead or black and blue, it is not the rule of Islam, similar to deviants who drink alcohol or commit adultery, etc each is known to be a thing disliked by Islam. How does the Bibles; Jews and Christians respect their women, considering both blame Eve for all the sins and evil of this world?


[Quote]- And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand - Qur'an 4:34 (When your husband strikes you, dont ask why)[/Quote]And the prophet [as] never beat his wives [ra]. And I do not beat my wife, a woman that more than a decade is between the 2 of us. And I do my own cooking and clean after myself. Her money belongs to her no question asked from me. And the bold is your own and it has no place in Islam because husband and wife are called mates, companions and Allah has instill love between the two of them. What does the Bible say about women; lets talk about the voiceless christian woman.


[Quote]- What about the hereafter (heaven of hell?) The Quran says there are more women in hell and for heaven,[/Quote]please show me the verse in the Quran because I am searching for it.


[Quote] there will be virgins and women for the men,[/Quote]Virgin and women [2 women to a man] shows that women will be more in Paradise, too. this disproves what you wrote above.


[Quote] and young boys. What do women get? I am still searching - Qur'an 78:33[/Quote]Do the math. Women get half a man because less men are in paradise than women in paradise.


[Quote]- Then of course the case of the Child Bride, Aisha. I look at my little 9/10 year old sweet nieces and I know there will be no chance on earth I could live with the fact that someone could force himself on them. But it happened[/Quote]did the prophet do the bold while the wife and the husband both negotiated the terms of the marital contract? After you marry your wife do your conjugal duties amount to the man forcing himself on her, considering that he waited 2 years after marriage before they consummated the marriage? Do we call 2 year too soon, lacking patience, etc? I am sure both spouses grew two more years from the day of marriage. [b]Can you tell me with relevant proofs the probably year relative to the beginning of prophet-hood when Aisha was born? I say she was born before the first revelation. You need to research what lagosshia had presented about it before you argue from blindness.


[Quote]I cant call that man a Prophet.[/Quote]And the Jews can'f call Jesus a Prophet. And you call Solomon prophet with 1000 women for him. David a Prophet still after he killed the husband of the woman he snatched.


[Quote] I have heard all the excuses made for the fact, but if the Hadith is correct, I can't buy it. If I buy it because of some excuses, then the Hadith is wrong[/Quote]The hadith is wrong because of the fact that there is a rule about what age a female or male can marry; minimum at the age of puberty. But Aisha's father had all his children including Aisha in Makka before the revelation and Aisha was engaged to some future husband before the revelation began.Aisha was old enough in the early period of Makka period to know which surah revealed.


[Quote]You see why Islam is such an oddball, just because someone is not a Muslim or has left, he becomes an "un-person",[/Quote]You didnt see the many persons was cloned from the un-person; christian, atheist, etc, etc? You practice injustice calling Islam oddball.


[Quote] he or she is no more human. Apostates sometimes are killed, which is a shame really. I have never heard someone from any other religion who has left treated as bad as Islam does.[/Quote]You are probably naive, ignorant or outright deceitful to say you have never heard of other religion people killing their apostates. If you are a jew and the OT said it and you do not do it, you are a hypocrite. If you are a christian if the NT says it and you refuse to do it, you are a hypocrite. Read your Bible and see that apostates are to be killed while Islam says he can come back again, and again, and again, and even after it becomes a revolving door syndrome, it is Allah Who all decisions rest as long as this person does not pick up arms or devise evil against Islam. And all is fair in way said by davidylan. By the way the Bible call us Infidels.


[Quote]and If I am lying, try this test (at your own risk) walk up to your folks and Imam and tell them you have left Islam (I must say though that most Nigerian south western Muslims are quite liberal unlike their northern counterpart).[/Quote]You must be a young adult. Many sw nigerian persons left Islam. One of them is in San Francisco Bay Area. His mother didn't do anything. Neither his father. He did it 10 years before he left for the states. I also know many who became christian through marriage, proving that the messenger [as] is relevant even today because there is no reason for a person worshiping 1 God to replace it with 3 God[s] of the christians, munching on pigs, etc.


[Quote]Its like a cult really, once in you cant leave! If you leave, you are hunted and could lose your life. If death is not a threat to apostates, millions will ditch Islam. Its like living with a gun constantly to your head. Always.[/Quote]A real estate man in Nigeria left islam, his parent havent done anything to him till now. He is the only one in his large family that is christian. I opened a thread 3 weeks ago to get the christians to try to preach their religion to us. They all ran and didnt seize the opportunity to win souls for Jesus in the fashion of paul. You should try me, unless you are also a fake, ignorant enough to avoid serious dialogue.


[Quote]I wonder how you reached your conclusion about the Muslim specie (as you put it) is the best?[/QUote]This is the best thing that came out of your piece. Muslim will be the first to sincerely do good for the pleasure of God and will be the last to be induced to doing evil because of his God consciousness.


[Quote] Even if he is a murderer?[/Quote]If all of them have the same demeanor, if will the muslim who will not pee on the dead person, for many reasons; not wanting to defile the dead body and whipping out his instrument for the others to see. Must must cover his aura at all time. And will muslim will not overkill, the others will.


[Quote] A thief?[/Quote]Since there is punishment against it, he will not be as shameless as the others.


[Quote] A despoiler?[/Quote]This is normal for others while most muslim will not dare to do it.


[Quote] You are offering an opinion.[/Quote]My opinion is that you have no idea about Islam, and definitely you need to learn about this noble religion and thats the fact. A muslim who is bad will be worse if he is not a muslim. A non muslim who is good will be better if he is a muslim.
[/quote]

@ogoamaka99, ALLAH IS THE CREATOR, who created you and I. Your Lord or call it Jehovah also asked you christians to kill. Why cant you finish reading your forged book(bible) before attempting to solve the puzzle(which I prayed you will never understand so that you will know that hell is real). Please can you justify this verse in the bible and please stop calling it a parable or proverb.

Jesus said:"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27).

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (1 Samuel 15:3).

The bible ask you not to spare infant, sucklings, including animals? Is this not the greatest sign of wickedness? Is this the peaceful nature of christianity you are talking about?